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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 12:54:07
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
There is one, unethical aspect to this that you should seriously consider: If you are still in therapy with him after you've had sex, it's labeled prostitution. You are paying for sex and he is providing it. There is no Ethical Board on the face of the Earth who would judge it otherwise.
Penny
Posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 14:31:48
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
Hi
Just to say that my previous posting is for Pippa, not Widget.Penny
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 12:54:07
To Penny, while you may be correct technically about the charge of prostitution, don't you think you're being a bit vicious? Pippa has been very brave to talk about this so honestly and I'd hope we can be above such accusations and mudslinging.
Kindly, Widget
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 15:38:01
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
To Penny
My god .... its 9:30 at night here in England.
A minute ago I was a pretty normal person....
Suddenly I am a whore ... I became one neither by choice or through receipt of funds for sexual favours - just because I have fallen to be in love with a man who also happens to be my therapist...
I am a harlot ... a street walker ... a lady of the night .... you know what
love it and him ... I dont feel a whore, harlot or prostitute ... and with the benefit of thought ... if anyone in this relationship was a prostitute ,,, presumably it was my T not me!! All I am guilty of is procurement!
I know no offence was meant or intended and Penny please dont feel bad about what you said ... I am fine about it ... it is strange ... but I am happy that I am telling all sort of strangers about it as well
Pippa
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 16:06:58
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 15:38:01
Dear Pippa, I want to offer you support and you seen ok to me and that's great. What about your children? Will they see you, are they with their father? How do you feel about them in all of this? Widget
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:18:18
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 16:06:58
Hi Widget
- Thanks - I know you are being supportive. My children are still coming to terms with me leaving their father ... but we (husband and I) are being sensible and have agreed to make sure that no matter what else happens the children will be a protected, loved and involved as much as we can....
Pippa
Posted by caraher on February 3, 2007, at 16:34:00
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
Penny slung no mud; she was simply pointing out the consequences to the therapist (who would be the one technically engaged in prostitution!). She didn't mean to put anyone here down.
Her point about not telling the wife he described as terminally ill is an excellent one. The worst manipulators are the ones who at first appear to have pure hearts and to be "beyond reproach." Imagine how devastating the betrayal would be if this all turned out to be a lie!
We just want you to be careful and protect yourself.
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:53:29
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by caraher on February 3, 2007, at 16:34:00
Caraher
Hi
I know you are helping and protecting - many thanks for that.
My T is not a liar, a manipulator or the type of person who would lie about his sick wife.
His wife has MS - there is no reason for me to "drive past" and check up on him or indeed her ...
I agree I would be devastated if this was all a lie ... but it isnt ....
Pippa
Posted by bird in the sky on February 3, 2007, at 20:46:55
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:53:29
it seems weird to me that you still call him your T. After al, isn't he your lover, your love, your friend etc. how can you just call him your T?
I fell in love with a teacher once and when we were together i would never think of calling him my teacher. how weird it must be to still be having therapy with him...
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 2:25:51
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
When I started a relationship w my T he said we must immediately decide whether to continue therapy (and have NO relationship) or end therapy and have a relationship. He was very clear about it and HE TOLD ME that otherwise he would be a prostitute and I would become his "John", but I suppose I'd be a "Jane".
In hindsight I'm glad he made the distinction clear to me, because if I'd been his patient after our relationship I'd have been ready for a straightjacket. It would also have been virtually impossible for him to break off the relationship.
So I'm not being vicious, simply stating what my T/lover told me. He said any Ethics Board would view it that way.Penny
Posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
In reply to My T called it prostitution!, posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 2:25:51
I wouldn't presume to know your unique situation but most professional boards would consider a relationship with a client unethical, even if you stopped the therapy. In my state (CA) a therapist would be breaking the law and could lose his license.
Are you now working with another therapist? And if I can ask, (of course you don't have to answer) what did you begin therapy for?
Welcome to Babble.
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 3:26:54
In reply to Re: My T called it prostitution! » Dis Traught, posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
I needed to be validated:)
I wrote about me in a posting headed "Do I need therapy".Penny
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 3:35:00
In reply to Re: My T called it prostitution! » Dis Traught, posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
I think it would worldwide be deemed unethical regardless of whether we'd ended the therapy or not.
Penny
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 3:52:19
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by bird in the sky on February 3, 2007, at 20:46:55
Hello - I do seem to have opened a can of worms here. - My "T" is called Piers - I had assumed there was a requirement "on here" not to name names! But .... I really do have nothing to hide, and he is willing for me to give his name on here.
I imagine, but do not know this for sure, that in the UK we are slightly less "hung up" about the whole therapy process and the "ethics" of client therapist relationships.For the avoidance of all doubt, I have now spoken to Piers about what I have read and said on here ... He wants me to be happy - if I want to stop therapy with him ... then that is fine by him....
As for why I started therapy .... I was "gang raped" when I was 20 - after a party in Riyadh.
The men who attacked me were never convicted although the police arrested them and one of them admitted to the assault.
It appears that I provoked the attack myself because I was a young blonde western girl who was sexually available and who had drunk 2 glasses of wine.To this day I have recurring issues about my high sex drive, guilt that I "let" 10 or 11 men have sex with me and that I sometimes, even now, I admit to myself that I "enjoyed" it.
Piers is a sex therapist. He is the only man who has ever been able to make me understand that a lot of my thoughts, feelings and desires are natural and nothing to be ashamed of.
Pippa
Posted by muffled on February 4, 2007, at 10:28:50
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 3:52:19
Pippa. I am glad you enjoying yourself.
I hope it goes OK?
Are you anticipating that your T will leave his wife?
MS people can live long lives. They can go into remissiom, the disease can slow or go fast. They become increasingly reliant on their caregivers for help....
I just wonder what future there is in this for you?
And he is still your T? I would find that a challenge personally if I was a T, to try and treat a client I was involved with...
Hope you don't get hurt Pippa. But if you do, you sure won't be the first or last unfortunately.
Glad to meet you. Welcome to babble.
Muffled
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 11:10:13
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4350712.stm
Penny
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:33:44
In reply to Re: Love with therapist » Pippa, posted by muffled on February 4, 2007, at 10:28:50
Hello Muffled
All is fine here. I have no idea if Piers will leave his wife or not.
If he decides to care for her and his family that is his choice. I have made my choice to follow my heart and to be true to myself. What he decides is down to him. I have experienced quite a lot in my life. My need for therapy relates to my sex drive, my feelings of guilt about what happened to me in Saudi and how I have reacted to those events.
Piers started as my therapist, became my lover and yes, he remains my therapist. At no time has he coerced me, persuaded me to do something that I do not want to do or exploited his position.
We love each other. Its that simple.
He has responsibilities to his wife and children, as I do to mine. We are aware of our responsibilities but we also know that we have a responsibility to each other - that of true lovers and soul mates.
Pippa
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:52:10
In reply to For Pippa, posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 11:10:13
Penny
We are both aware of the Steven Manley case.
At no time since we became lovers has Piers asked me for money for sex or for his time with me.
I am sufficiently "grown up" to know that I could end up with nothing here - but ... I have made my choice.
At the moment I have to believe in myself and Piers. Without trust, love and self-belief what is there to live for?
Pippa
Posted by bird in the sky on February 4, 2007, at 22:42:15
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:52:10
Hi Pippa (and all)
This reminds me of a line in this famous poem in the book called The Invitation.
"I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accustion of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy."
Oriah Mountain DreamerTake care and continue to follow your heart!
Posted by Dis Traught on February 5, 2007, at 4:33:47
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 2, 2007, at 8:20:02
Please understand that I am not in any way criticising your relationship with your T. The only thing I object to is the fact that you are still in therapy with him. I object to his lack of professionalism in that respect.
Penny
Posted by Pippa on February 5, 2007, at 4:39:00
In reply to For Pippa, posted by Dis Traught on February 5, 2007, at 4:33:47
Penny
Not a problem - thanks for your concern.
Piers and I have talked this through in detail - I am going to see another therapist.
My problem now is do I tell the new therapist about Piers?
Life is never simple ... any ideas?
Pippa
Posted by caraher on February 5, 2007, at 5:52:19
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by Pippa on February 5, 2007, at 4:39:00
Did Piers express any worries about a new therapist "reporting" him to a licensing agency?
Posted by Pippa on February 5, 2007, at 6:01:11
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by caraher on February 5, 2007, at 5:52:19
No - he has not expressed any worries. He believes that we should do whatever is best for me.
I imagine that "client" confidentiality means that my new therapist ... Who is incidently a woman!!! - would not be allowed to report him without my permission?
Piers and my new therapist have worked together for over 8 years. I will ask her what her professional opinion is.
Pippa
Posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:17:12
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by Pippa on February 5, 2007, at 6:01:11
> No - he has not expressed any worries. He believes that we should do whatever is best for me.
>
> I imagine that "client" confidentiality means that my new therapist ... Who is incidently a woman!!! - would not be allowed to report him without my permission?
>
> Piers and my new therapist have worked together for over 8 years. I will ask her what her professional opinion is.
>
> PippaI find this very disturbiing. A therapist has a power differential over a patient. This is such a big no-no, and you may not recognize the problems from this now, but down the line you will. Believe me.
Posted by Daisym on February 6, 2007, at 0:03:43
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by Pippa on February 5, 2007, at 6:01:11
In the US (at least in CA) patient confidentiality does not extend to ongoing (current) abuse situations - elder abuse, child abuse, abuse of any with special needs OR abuse of a patient, medically or mental health wise -- even if the patient doesn't believe they are being abused.
However, I think each individual therapist would have to look at their own ethically obligation to doing what is best for you, which may come in conflict with reporting the abusing therapist. So it is a slippery slope. It could put the new therapist in a bad spot, couldn't it? Especially since she works with your current therapist.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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