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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Honore on February 2, 2007, at 21:28:42
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 20:39:29
Hi, widget.
The power differential might be what makes the relationship so intense and compelling at this time.
You seem, to me, to be idealizing your T a great deal-- which is often a stage in the unfolding of therapy. However, eventually, one needs to learn that this idealization isn't reliable-- that it leaves out too much. The disillusionment can be painful, although manageable and eventually therapeutic- - in therapy.
If you've having a romantic relationship with your T, the disillusionment can be profound and even devastating-- esp. if it involves abandonment, or exploitation.
I notice that your T somehow hasn't told his family because the "time isn't right"-- I have to tell you, though, that that doesn't sound very promising to me. For one thing the "time is *never* and I do mean *never* right to tell one's wife and children that one is having a relationship with anyone, especially a patient. or-- if you're in love with someone-- the time is always right, because you feel committed to being with that person.
Also, I have to differ with you in one important respect-- you say your T is "beyond reproach"-- that, with all due respect, is precisely what he is not beyond. Even if your affair works out-- he has violated a very strong ethical duty-- to you, to his other patients, to the therapeutic community, and, on another level, to his family.
I'm concerned for you.
Honore
Posted by bird in the sky on February 2, 2007, at 22:45:21
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Honore on February 2, 2007, at 21:28:42
I have identified with you all and i thank you for sharing so much. I don't write here much but read pretty often. Even though i have been in love with my therapist for a couple years now or so, and he has explained to me all this you also have explained, i still wish we could have sex. I mostly think about being held so close and imagine it often. I also think of sex which brings us even closer (in my mind). I am still a bit obsessed with the idea and when i am with him i sneak looks at his chest and imagine my head up against it. this desire is very strong and i wish i could get it fulfilled. maybe there should be a professional who would do that for people. hold them in a loving way. every day is hard cause i am always thinking of it , when i can let my mind go. someimes it makes me horny, and i dont understand this cause i thought it would be some kind of mother or father thing. I often masturbate before i see my T, so i will be more relaxed. does anyone do the same?
Posted by Honore on February 3, 2007, at 1:28:09
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Honore on February 2, 2007, at 21:28:42
confusion.
Also, in conflated your statements, so what is relevant to Pippa excludes the part about her therapist being beyond reproach.
Again, sorry about the confusion.
Honore
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 2:33:46
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Honore on February 2, 2007, at 21:28:42
Honore
Thank you for your comments and replies.
I knew when I posted that I might be opening pandora's box.
Believe me, before we started our affair we talked about the implications that our actions would have on our families and damage that our love could have on his career and professional standing. Based on rational discussion and a deep trust for each other we started our future.
My T 's reason for not telling his wife and children is because she has a terminal illness and the children do not need the added grief of dealing with what we have started at this stage in their lives.
My husband and family do not know who I am in this relationship with. Leaving my home was the hardest decision I have ever made. It was the right decision because I had to be true to myself and them.
I dont believe I am idealising my T, but I will consider that opinion. We have something that is very hard to explain - a relationship based on total trust, physical compatibility and love!
I respect my T's decision not to tell his wife and family and understand why the time is not right. I am sad about it and have to admit that at times I have doubted that he would ever tell her. However, we have talked this through and despite the odd moments of insecurity can live with what we have decided.
I am in love - with an honourable, passionate and grieving man who has changed my life. Our route to finding each other has and will cause a great deal of pain. However it is something we have to go through to allow ourselves to be together for ever.
Pippa
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 3:49:03
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by bird in the sky on February 2, 2007, at 22:45:21
Bird in the Sky
Yes is often masturbate before I have a session with my T, but there again I masturbate two or three times a day most days.
I find that the release of tension and the relaxing effect means that I can concentrate on the session and get the most benefit from our time together.
I think i also do it so that I know I am not totally reliant on him for my orgasms and sexual release.I want to know that our relationship is not just on a sexual level ... Masturbation allows me to do that.
Masturbation after a session, when we have not had sex, produces some of my most intense orgasms. Often I have to stop the car on the way home to bring myself off and to release the sexual tension that has built up during a session. Especially when we have talked about my libido and my past.
In the UK people still do not talk openly about "self-gratification" or "masturbation" or even sexual relations. I find it refreshing that I can talk on here and be open about about my sexual needs and what I do.
How refreshing it is to be open and honest with people other than my T
Pippa
Posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 12:42:56
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
Hi,
You have already chosen your path, and hopefully you can bear having to pay the price should it come to that.
There are several reasons why a relationship w a therapist can be harmful. Firstly, there is an imbalance; your therapist knows FAR more about you than you know about him (power). Secondly, you are in a vulnerable situation as you need him as a T, which is why you met him in the first place. Thirdly, you don't know if he's telling the truth. How do you actually KNOW his wife is ill? Is he saying that so you will not immediately take action to threaten his licence? If I were you, I'd drive by his house and take a good, long look at his wife to see how she seems.How will you feel if he breaks off the relationship? What if his wife IS ill and he needs you to help him through her illness and then dumps you? Being dumped by anyone is hard, but being dumped by your therapist is absolute, bottomless hell.
I wish you all the best.Penny
Posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 12:54:07
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
There is one, unethical aspect to this that you should seriously consider: If you are still in therapy with him after you've had sex, it's labeled prostitution. You are paying for sex and he is providing it. There is no Ethical Board on the face of the Earth who would judge it otherwise.
Penny
Posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 14:31:48
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
Hi
Just to say that my previous posting is for Pippa, not Widget.Penny
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Dis Traught on February 3, 2007, at 12:54:07
To Penny, while you may be correct technically about the charge of prostitution, don't you think you're being a bit vicious? Pippa has been very brave to talk about this so honestly and I'd hope we can be above such accusations and mudslinging.
Kindly, Widget
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 15:38:01
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
To Penny
My god .... its 9:30 at night here in England.
A minute ago I was a pretty normal person....
Suddenly I am a whore ... I became one neither by choice or through receipt of funds for sexual favours - just because I have fallen to be in love with a man who also happens to be my therapist...
I am a harlot ... a street walker ... a lady of the night .... you know what
love it and him ... I dont feel a whore, harlot or prostitute ... and with the benefit of thought ... if anyone in this relationship was a prostitute ,,, presumably it was my T not me!! All I am guilty of is procurement!
I know no offence was meant or intended and Penny please dont feel bad about what you said ... I am fine about it ... it is strange ... but I am happy that I am telling all sort of strangers about it as well
Pippa
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 16:06:58
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 15:38:01
Dear Pippa, I want to offer you support and you seen ok to me and that's great. What about your children? Will they see you, are they with their father? How do you feel about them in all of this? Widget
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:18:18
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 16:06:58
Hi Widget
- Thanks - I know you are being supportive. My children are still coming to terms with me leaving their father ... but we (husband and I) are being sensible and have agreed to make sure that no matter what else happens the children will be a protected, loved and involved as much as we can....
Pippa
Posted by caraher on February 3, 2007, at 16:34:00
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:22:17
Penny slung no mud; she was simply pointing out the consequences to the therapist (who would be the one technically engaged in prostitution!). She didn't mean to put anyone here down.
Her point about not telling the wife he described as terminally ill is an excellent one. The worst manipulators are the ones who at first appear to have pure hearts and to be "beyond reproach." Imagine how devastating the betrayal would be if this all turned out to be a lie!
We just want you to be careful and protect yourself.
Posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:53:29
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by caraher on February 3, 2007, at 16:34:00
Caraher
Hi
I know you are helping and protecting - many thanks for that.
My T is not a liar, a manipulator or the type of person who would lie about his sick wife.
His wife has MS - there is no reason for me to "drive past" and check up on him or indeed her ...
I agree I would be devastated if this was all a lie ... but it isnt ....
Pippa
Posted by bird in the sky on February 3, 2007, at 20:46:55
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 3, 2007, at 16:53:29
it seems weird to me that you still call him your T. After al, isn't he your lover, your love, your friend etc. how can you just call him your T?
I fell in love with a teacher once and when we were together i would never think of calling him my teacher. how weird it must be to still be having therapy with him...
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 2:25:51
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
When I started a relationship w my T he said we must immediately decide whether to continue therapy (and have NO relationship) or end therapy and have a relationship. He was very clear about it and HE TOLD ME that otherwise he would be a prostitute and I would become his "John", but I suppose I'd be a "Jane".
In hindsight I'm glad he made the distinction clear to me, because if I'd been his patient after our relationship I'd have been ready for a straightjacket. It would also have been virtually impossible for him to break off the relationship.
So I'm not being vicious, simply stating what my T/lover told me. He said any Ethics Board would view it that way.Penny
Posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
In reply to My T called it prostitution!, posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 2:25:51
I wouldn't presume to know your unique situation but most professional boards would consider a relationship with a client unethical, even if you stopped the therapy. In my state (CA) a therapist would be breaking the law and could lose his license.
Are you now working with another therapist? And if I can ask, (of course you don't have to answer) what did you begin therapy for?
Welcome to Babble.
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 3:26:54
In reply to Re: My T called it prostitution! » Dis Traught, posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
I needed to be validated:)
I wrote about me in a posting headed "Do I need therapy".Penny
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 3:35:00
In reply to Re: My T called it prostitution! » Dis Traught, posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 3:15:36
I think it would worldwide be deemed unethical regardless of whether we'd ended the therapy or not.
Penny
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 3:52:19
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by bird in the sky on February 3, 2007, at 20:46:55
Hello - I do seem to have opened a can of worms here. - My "T" is called Piers - I had assumed there was a requirement "on here" not to name names! But .... I really do have nothing to hide, and he is willing for me to give his name on here.
I imagine, but do not know this for sure, that in the UK we are slightly less "hung up" about the whole therapy process and the "ethics" of client therapist relationships.For the avoidance of all doubt, I have now spoken to Piers about what I have read and said on here ... He wants me to be happy - if I want to stop therapy with him ... then that is fine by him....
As for why I started therapy .... I was "gang raped" when I was 20 - after a party in Riyadh.
The men who attacked me were never convicted although the police arrested them and one of them admitted to the assault.
It appears that I provoked the attack myself because I was a young blonde western girl who was sexually available and who had drunk 2 glasses of wine.To this day I have recurring issues about my high sex drive, guilt that I "let" 10 or 11 men have sex with me and that I sometimes, even now, I admit to myself that I "enjoyed" it.
Piers is a sex therapist. He is the only man who has ever been able to make me understand that a lot of my thoughts, feelings and desires are natural and nothing to be ashamed of.
Pippa
Posted by muffled on February 4, 2007, at 10:28:50
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 3:52:19
Pippa. I am glad you enjoying yourself.
I hope it goes OK?
Are you anticipating that your T will leave his wife?
MS people can live long lives. They can go into remissiom, the disease can slow or go fast. They become increasingly reliant on their caregivers for help....
I just wonder what future there is in this for you?
And he is still your T? I would find that a challenge personally if I was a T, to try and treat a client I was involved with...
Hope you don't get hurt Pippa. But if you do, you sure won't be the first or last unfortunately.
Glad to meet you. Welcome to babble.
Muffled
Posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 11:10:13
In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by widget on February 2, 2007, at 8:03:11
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4350712.stm
Penny
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:33:44
In reply to Re: Love with therapist » Pippa, posted by muffled on February 4, 2007, at 10:28:50
Hello Muffled
All is fine here. I have no idea if Piers will leave his wife or not.
If he decides to care for her and his family that is his choice. I have made my choice to follow my heart and to be true to myself. What he decides is down to him. I have experienced quite a lot in my life. My need for therapy relates to my sex drive, my feelings of guilt about what happened to me in Saudi and how I have reacted to those events.
Piers started as my therapist, became my lover and yes, he remains my therapist. At no time has he coerced me, persuaded me to do something that I do not want to do or exploited his position.
We love each other. Its that simple.
He has responsibilities to his wife and children, as I do to mine. We are aware of our responsibilities but we also know that we have a responsibility to each other - that of true lovers and soul mates.
Pippa
Posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:52:10
In reply to For Pippa, posted by Dis Traught on February 4, 2007, at 11:10:13
Penny
We are both aware of the Steven Manley case.
At no time since we became lovers has Piers asked me for money for sex or for his time with me.
I am sufficiently "grown up" to know that I could end up with nothing here - but ... I have made my choice.
At the moment I have to believe in myself and Piers. Without trust, love and self-belief what is there to live for?
Pippa
Posted by bird in the sky on February 4, 2007, at 22:42:15
In reply to Re: For Pippa, posted by Pippa on February 4, 2007, at 11:52:10
Hi Pippa (and all)
This reminds me of a line in this famous poem in the book called The Invitation.
"I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accustion of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy."
Oriah Mountain DreamerTake care and continue to follow your heart!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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