![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
TRIG's about T relationship, maybe sex stuff/abuse, I don't know. I tried to keep it vague.
===============
I've been trying to let some of this out for awhile. I don't know how to throw this together in one post, so I make sense...Okay, my T has been pushing me for a couple of months to talk about relationships I've had in the past. For over a year and a half I've only ever mentioned my family (mostly my mother), LadyT, and LadyDoctor. So I guess I've been touching on maternal transference and whatnot, lately. I never really mention men at all. Never my abusive past with my father (though LadyT touched on it in her referral letter, so he's not completely oblivious even if I don't talk about it). [I have briefly mentioned about physical violence with my mom.] I've briefly referred to an inncident in highschool. I've never spoken of sexual relationships in terms of dating..etc. After ALOT of pushing (saying I was hiding, in denial, or not trusting enough to communicate...) I wrote out a big narrative about Scott -- the last guy I was involved with (the longest I've had) before the anorexia. Hmmm, I don't know how to start all this...
I went into that relationship willing to be a thing -- I had no real expectations. I hate myself so much, and don't see myself as a person, and so was (am) "happiest" being treated poorly. I always think of myself as a tool for others to use to create their own happiness. I can be a cook, a maid, a punching bag, a listener, a whore ... whatever. All that matters is if the other person is pleased. I want to buy permission to inflict myself on the world -- pay for tolerance. And I'm so ugly and socially inept (and now somewhat crippled) that I'm extremely lucky if a man can touch me, even violently -- I want to thank them for pitying me enough to overlook all my faults. I have a hard time not asking for people to hit me (I did my T, and even ED Pdoc). It feels like love -- more than love feels like love. Anyways...
I was basically Scott's thing. It didn't start out that way, but it's what it turned into. He wouldn't let me touch him, or speak friendly to him in public -- he yelled at me once for trying to hold his arm when we were walking. I had to pay for everything we did. I wasn't allowed in his house, only the backseat of his car. We had a running list of rules and how I could improve myself for him -- how to wear my hair, the color, clothes, what I shouldn't eat, how I would earn the right for him to do me favors, I wasn't allowed to have his home number, only pager and cell....The list went on. It's so hard to explain why I was with him. I know it's hard to understand how it's possible to not only be content living like that, but to feel privledged. I was so grateful that he could pick me -- I was chosen. And he'd still say lovely things inbetween all the questionable stuff.
I have an achilles heel for wounded people, especially if their woundedness contrasts with the rest of them. Scott was a rugby playing big-shot TA at my university. Right before we got together he had heart surgury to fix a congenital defect. I was kinda hypnotized by the idea of it. He had the strong aggression, and protectiveness of a male, and the safe, weak woundedness of a female, all in one person. It was a combo I couldn't resist. I wanted to be the one to make sure that his heart never hurt again. Stupid.
The whole thing degenerated from somewhat regular dating, to me being a thing that he could collect whenever he liked. To put it nicely, I went to more parking lots with him, than restaurants and bars combined :-( But it's complicated. He had a way of being both affectionate and protective, cruel and condescending at the same time. And for someone who spent most of their teens isolated in shame and depression, and full of self-loathing, it was just the right amount of love and hate to be intoxicating. Even the first time he kissed me, he said, "There! Is that what you've been asking me for?" But he'd be wearing a half-smile, and he did kiss me afterall. Kissed me instead of not. Kissed me instead of hit. Kissed me first before everything else. And he didn't need to be drunk to do it. Was he not actually being wonderful? It was always so easy for me to re-write -- he was better than me.
Sometimes I'd forget and walk up behind him just to touch his back and he'd push me back and look around to see if anyone saw, and then he'd come right up to me and say, "Look at you! Who knew you were such a little slut". But then he would smile. I got variations of that one alot. It was confusing. I'd feel so stupid. I've never wanted sex in my life. Never ever. Not a single time did I want it. I don't want, or need -- I only comply. I'd only wanted to touch him to show I cared. And I guess I wanted the same back. That's not what he wanted though. I always ended up looking stupid. Anyways, I could go on and on giving examples, but that was the gist of how we were together.
It ended in the blink of an eye. Once he was driving me home late at like 3am and he pulled over, and instead of being how I was supposed to, I had my first real dissociative (I think that was the word, maybe depersonalization? not sure now) episode. And I remember I couldn't even register what he was doing, and couldn't really even feel anything. It was frightening -- I felt very disoriented. I couldn't stay inside my own head. I felt like I was inside whatever I was looking at. Basically what it came down to was that I couldn't even perform minimally. I don't know how to explain it appropriately -- He was upset and made me feel humiliated and said I had to go home then -- I felt like garbage. When he dropped me off I apoligized again, and he drove away. He quit work before his next shift, and didn't return anyone's calls. He didn't even pick up his last pay check. I never saw him again. I mean, he had to have left for more than just that -- I only messed up once. But I came to always connect the two in my head -- being sexually withholding equals abandonment.
Still, it was sad belonging to no one. I was so mad at myself for acting so strange (when I didn't mean to). Why did I have to have a mind that one time? Why did it happen that way after weeks and weeks of being his "slutty little girl". I couldn't figure it out. Anyways, that's a slightly abbreviated (slightly clean-up) version of what I told my T -- I thought it was relevant cause this was the only thing I mentioned this week, before everything else.
***
Last week with my T I had got the lecture about how I shouldn't disrespect good news (MRI) by not seizing the day (telling him about guys regardless of being scared), so Monday I went ahead and told him this one part of my past. I don't know if it's what he wanted to hear, but I didn't know what else to say.After telling him the Scott story, he said it sounded like I was trying to ask him something else -- like implied questions, in my words. I kept denying, saying I was only answering his questions. But to be honest, I did try and do it all nicely -- I don't want him to feel bad, or silly. I don't want him to hate me. Then he said that I was being coy (and in an email, he said I was Sly) And I know it's dumb, but it bothered me cause I wasn't trying to be that way, and he was saying the same words over that I had told him that Scott said -- that used to bother me so. And he'd use some of the same phrases in his examples that Scott would say. I realize I'm probably making that part bigger in my head (because it means something to me) but it was still making me upset and confused.
And then after telling him that story, and how anxious I was saying it, and how I'd only ever mentioned men briefly to LadyT, and that I was feeling ashamed of how I was and felt then, but also for recounting it now....I asked him in one of our emails if he saw me differently, or what he thought of me revealing an uglier part of my past. And when he wrote back his answer to what he thought of my story was that he was jealous! Jealous of the men who've had me, but not jealous enough to send me away. I almost fainted when I read it -- my head started spinning. It made me cry. That after so long, when it was so hard to tell that honestly, his first thought was that he was jealous?!?! Then he said that as long as I was having fun and not being hurt that he didn't think anything about sexual promiscuity or liking it alot, or letting yourself be used. But that's not what I was saying!!! He wasn't listening. He couldn't have been. I was not having fun -- and I know it doesn't count as much as a black eye or broken arm, but my heart was hurting. God, theres so much to remember and say. I can't do it. I've been having the worst time creating sentences this week.
Then the next session he came with a long print out saying all this stuff about how if I don't change myself I'm going to stay alone and that I need to learn to change better or I'll die. That change will keep happening in my life and if I can't adapt it will make me need to die (and he listed the likely ways). The two that made my hearing and vision go wonky when he said them were that..."Likely, one or both of your parents could die from illnes", or, "Your illness could get worse without anyone to take care of you". I almost threw up. He said I've ignored all his outreaches to help me be desensitized to acting like a functioning adult, and rejoining the world. He said that he knows that ativan and alcohol "are pointing the way for me to rejoin the world". That if I took more benzo's or would drink more that I'd do more, even if I was only able to do them under the influence. But then he said (and he does it saying my name, like talking about me in the third person)...But Elaine won't do that. Elaine refuses to accept others advice. Elaine wants to stay content in her isolation.....on and on. I hate when he says my name so much. But he was also saying really nice things too. And saying how I deserve comfort and help.
Then at the end he said, "I know I shouldn't do this to you considering everything you're going through, and that it may not be fair, but I
need to do this for myself..." And it disgusts me to say this, cause it makes me feel foolish, that someone could say this about me....he said... "Elaine, I love you. I have for some time now...". Then he started talking about how he had tried to ignore it cause he's had these feelings come up before in all his years working in practice and hospitals, but never as strongly and uncontrollable. That he tried to push the idea of getting what he wanted from me out of his head, cause it couldn't happen, but that he can't control his feelings, and needed to let me know. He asked if any man has ever said "I love you" to me before -- and they haven't. Not one mentioned love at all. He's the first. How sad is that. I suppose it's nice of him that way. I don't know.Then later that night, in an email, he told me how sad I made him that I didn't even verbally reciprocate, and that his heart is breaking, and he's soooo sad and disappointed. I HATE hurting people. I can't stand other people being in pain. I hate that I'm the cause. I did this!! I even asked him what I did to make his feelings happen this way. And he said nothing but "Being you". Being me? I don't get it. The horrible disgusting, condemnable thing was that (during the meeting he told me, when he'd said how hard it was to see me) I so almost was going to get physical for him -- though I just can't imagine that he, or anyone, could want that. Do that, or cry my eyes out, or faint. It's just the room was all spotty, and fuzzy, and I thought my brain was going to burst, and I didn't know what to do. But then that idea passed, and all I wanted to do was throw up. I was so nauseated. Even now at home, my mind will wander and think of the other day, and I'll feel sick to my stomach. I cancelled Friday because of my doctors appointment and my brother's news. I'm afraid to go back on Monday. But I'm more afraid of being alone. Oh god, I'm so alone in the real world.
I don't have any questions really. Not anymore. Except, do you think that if I reciprocated (even if it's pretend) that he'd leave me? [and I don't even mean leave me like a couple splitting up, but leave me professionally instead) He's said he never would. I know that if I had to go through all my medical, dental, financial, family stuff alone that I probably would've killed myself by now. What can I do? ...There's nothing. I can't steer my way out of this. It was so much better when he was still keeping it a secret. As long it was unsaid, I could ignore as much of it as I wanted. But now it's out there. And so are the expectations. And fears..... I can't turn back. It will never be the same between us again. Or can it? Can I fix this with words without destroying either of us? Can I use words? I'm scared. I want LadyDoctor, I MISS HER, why did I have to leave her at a time when I need her the most! I don't know what to do. I can't stand being afraid of the person and place that have been my only source of safety.....tell me what to say. HELP ME.
I'm sorry for being so vile and not strong, and I know I don't deserve anyone's help when I can't grow a backbone (what's wrong with me), but I feel so seperate from the world. I'm scared you guys will hate me now cause I'm so stupid and disgusting and slutty. I just want so much to not feel this alone. I'm sorry if this was gross for people to read. Please don't hate me. I'm so sorry this is really long -- I couldn't make it any shorter. Sorry. I'm afraid I've written this.
And now this other email. I'm afraid to go back and read it again...what will I do?
=:::(
Posted by sunnydays on August 27, 2006, at 19:49:49
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
(((((((ElaineM)))))))))))
I think you need to run away from your T. I'm sorry, and I know that's not what you want to hear, but a T should NEVER make you feel like this. I really care about you Elaine. I don't want anything to happen to you that would make you more unhappy, and I fear a relationship with your T would do that. And you are NOT disgusting. You are beautiful and strong and caring. Even if your body is not, your spirit is.
sunnydays
Posted by annierose on August 27, 2006, at 19:58:09
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
What will you do?
Well, I hope you will seek good solid theraputic help. You need help Elaine. This "T?" has never been a therapist to you. Worse. He is the worse kind of therapist out there that says they are there to help, instead inflict their pain on their suffering client and hold you responsible for not helping them. It's not the way it should be. It's not the kind of help you need or deserve.
I feel so strongly that this T(?) should refer you elsewhere - better yet you should seek help on your own. You deserve so much more. You deserve so much better. You deserve proper help. You deserve a chance to talk about all your hurts, heal your pain. I do believe that the physical pain will get better once you get proper psychological treatment. Our bodies and minds are connected. He can see you as a girlfriend. To say the two of you are engaged in a theraputic relationship undermines the integrity of the profession.
I like you Elaine. I am so sorry you feel so much pain everyday of your life. I wish I had a magic wand that would find a therapist that could help you. You need that. It is such a precious gift.
I am so thankful for all the boundaries my therapist has in place in her practice. It's just about me.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2006, at 20:04:26
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
Elaine,
I'm sorry you're feeling so confused, pressured, and upset. Certainly your T's actions are upsetting. I hear from your words that you want the relationship to be safe and helpful, and who wouldn't? That's what's expected in therapy.It's my belief that the situation you describe with your T is more dangerous to your well-being than any disorder could be. The only advice I can give you is to run. Don't walk. Don't look back. Just end the relationship. You do not owe him or anyone else any explanations.
If what you describe is accurate, he's exploiting you for his own gains. Perhaps that pattern feels somehow secure for you as it's one you've experienced before from what you describe? And breaking out into the unknown (terminating therapy with him) might seem way too scary. I can relate to that. But this is too important and the pattern you describe too fraught with peril.
Please make arrangements to meet with a new T to help you take the necessary steps to break away from him.
a worried gg
Posted by LadyBug on August 27, 2006, at 20:14:03
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
EL
I do not think ANYTHING negative about you.
I believe you were put through some really awful things by this Scott guy. I'm not even familar with abuse so I won't say anything.
In a wierd way I'm happy that your T loves you. Don't tell him you love him unless you do. It will only confuse you more and confuse the relationship as well.
I'm feeling really sad in my marriage right now. I hate my husband more than ever. So I am very vulnerable right now. My heart has been broken over and over and I can't deal with it anymore. I won't dwell on my problems.
I hope you see your T tomorrow. It's NOT your fault that he was hurting. That is something he has to be able to bear.
I wish I could reach out and give you a hug and give you someone to talk to irl. I'm sorry I can't offer you a solution. I know you are suffering a lot and I'm sorry for that. I hope you will keep posting about this. Sometimes it's a relief to get it out. You should see my journal entries lately. I feel like I've written a book! I'm trying so hard not to call my T. My heart is hurting, I'm full of anxiety and confusion on what I should do next. I'm afraid to ask for help but I can't physically do this alone.
Sorry I'm not more help. I think you are a wonderful person. Keep me posted ok? thanks
LadyBug
Posted by llrrrpp on August 27, 2006, at 20:45:23
In reply to Re: meltdown (sooo long) **triggers » ElaineM, posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2006, at 20:04:26
Yep, I agree with gg and annierose.
When I read these latest interactions with your T, the first thing that comes to my mind is: How wicked. Seriously, evil.
Elaine, you want to get away. You might not know it now, but you WANT to get away. You feel it in your heart that this is all wrong. Your body is telling you- you're anxious, you're terrified, you're hurting. This is not the way our bodies feel when we're in love. When we're in love, or have a crush, we feel lighter, freer, more joyous. Don't let this T get you entangled in a romantic relationship. You have this opportunity RIGHT NOW to make a promise with yourself. Tell yourself that tomorrow- Monday- you will very calmly seek out a new T. You will go to see this T and tell him/her that you had to terminate with the last T because he was making you feel more anxious than before when you started. That you didn't connect very well in terms of a therapeutic relationship, and that you need a fresh start, because you're in bad shape.
No need to get your ex-T in trouble. The MAIN THING is to get yourself, the Elaine that we have all grown fond of, OUT OF TROUBLE.
So. block all the e-mails from you T, or route them to a folder that you won't check until you're healthy and distant. Right now, you're just too entangled.
Listen to your heart. It feels wrong, because it is wrong. Your responsibility is to use therapy as a tool to make you feel stronger, healthier, and more able. Do the responsible thing, and find a therapeutic situation that will allow you to fulfill your responsibility as a mental health client. If you're resisting his approach, and you've given it a fair shot, you should start over again.
((((((((Elaine)))))))))
keep posting. this stuff with Scott and your ex-T deserve more air-time. You will need to find someone you trust, and who respects you enough to listen carefully to your past. Try to put your pieces together so that you can begin to heal.
more hugs,
-ll
Posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 20:48:20
In reply to Re: meltdown (sooo long) **triggers » ElaineM, posted by LadyBug on August 27, 2006, at 20:14:03
Yes, i need someone else right now. But why did it have to change so terribly so quickly. Oh god. I want my LadyT!!! I NEED her. Why didn't that lady in June keep me? Why did she send me away?
GG: The pattern would be familiar to me, but not the context. No one was ever so genuinely nice first, and then switch so completely. Usually I expect the pattern going into a relationship, and then I can be okay with it. But T's have come to feel safe for me, and he only was kind and gentle before -- This switch feels like it's out of the blue. I didn't honestly expect this. and that's why I CAN'T stand it!
I feel so guilty doing this but this is some of what he said in the email he sent a little while ago: He said he wanted an adequate response back from me (about his declaration) and he said, "But then the uproar over your brother got in the way...", "And what I read there was probably the most non-comittal message i've ever got from you..." [okay I feel really bad quoting verbatim] And he said that I was Too cold like three times. And he said that I've told him that I am used to being a vehicle for others (and that I had begun to change him) but that I don't prove my willingness as an instrument that way. He said he held back confronting me about my silence and confussion because of what I've been going through, but that a few days is more than enough time. He said I have to come tomorrow with something to say -- that he will not let me stay quiet after having revealed so much himself. That "I [he] cannot do it." He then said sorry for leaning on me so much but I'm not handling this reasonably and that I've forced him to the point where he has to speak more aggressively. And he ended with eight lines of hugs with my name in the middle. I can't judge his frame of mind anymore.
I want someone else RIGHT NOW! But no T but him will like me. And his email is so hurtful to me.. I'm so frightened by it. It doesn't even sound like him. THis is just not the T from even two weeks ago. I don't understand. I hate myself, even if you guys don't. I must go because I missed Friday, and I think that's what pissed him off. I usually don't go more than a day or two between seeing him.
Thank you for saying that you don't think I'm gross after reading my post. I wish you all lived near me IRL. I can't stop shaking. I'm so afraid he's reading now. Though I'm sure he would've let on before. Now his name looks scary coming up in my Inbox -- even the subject lines that I know contain old lovely, "regular T" messages look scary. Should I send him one back tonight saying I'm frightened?
((((Sunny))))
((((Annierose))))
(((((GG))))))
((((LadyBug)))thank you for being with me when i'm so nervous and afraid.
Posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 21:07:11
In reply to Re: meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by llrrrpp on August 27, 2006, at 20:45:23
(((LL))) I am so tired. And so tired of being fearful. I wish I still had my ED so I could live in the hospital with LadyT and all the nice staff. There was only one male Pdoc, and he was so important that we never saw him that much. I hate that I'm not small enough to be there right now. But not all men are bad, i don't think. Not all....I was starting to not be afraid. T wanted me to not fear....AAhhh!..(teary)...I'm sorry, rambling.
Shall I email the Assault Counsellor? -- the one who's contact info the lady from the Psych center in June gave me. It's not sexual assault but the Pdoc said that this seemed appropriate at the time. I was too afraid then. I wanted things to stay how they were, and I wanted to be over-reacting. I'm scared to speak to more new people, but I need someone to help me.
I feel like my head is going to explode. Ativan is stupid and doesn't work. I wonder how soon I can take more.
((LL)) thank you for listening. I was so afraid that nobody would say anything. Or say that I deserve being frightened cause I'm stubborn. Thank you. I'm worried I'll just go and say made up love things, and let him whatever or nothing. I don't care. Or I used to be able to not care. But old T's taught me how to feel stuff, and now I'm not good at just being numb. I hate that they made me not a zombie and then left me...I can't stop being a baby! My fuzzy thinking!
your responses help.
Posted by sunnydays on August 27, 2006, at 21:12:25
In reply to Re: meltdown » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 21:07:11
(((El))))
Don't respond to his email. You need to be less entangled with him, not more. And please don't go tomorrow. I don't care how mad he gets, it's not healthy for you to go. It's not your concern how he feels, even if you think it is. I can't say it any more bluntly than that. Please get out of this relationship, not for me or anyone on Babble but for YOU. You deserve so much better.
sunnydays
Posted by caraher on August 27, 2006, at 21:31:23
In reply to Re: meltdown, posted by sunnydays on August 27, 2006, at 21:12:25
(((El)))
I'm proud of you for posting all that on Babble. I hope you see now that nobody thinks you're "slutty" or disgusting, and that everyone agrees that your "T" has gone far beyond any reasonable boundary in his involvement with you. It's all about *his needs* and that's just wrong - therapy must be about *your needs*.
If you cannot find in in yourself to shed him I won't think ill of you. But I will be sad that you're being abused by him, and that you've accepted his manipulation out of a greater fear of loneliness.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 27, 2006, at 21:45:22
In reply to Re: meltdown » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 21:07:11
Hi Elaine,
I cannot even imagine what this is like. I feel icky when guys flirt with me, and I can't even fathom what it must feel like to have someone that you once felt safe with turn on you like this.Just be glad that you have your wits about you. You recognized when he turned on you. You recognize that it is not right, and you feel scared to see him tomorrow.
These are GOOD things. They are uncomfortable, and painful, but these are the feelings that are going to keep you safe, believe it or not. Our emotions are there for a reason. They let us understand complicated situations easily, and directly. Rather than having to assimilate and process all kinds of data, when we are AFRAID, we know that there is something to be afraid of (well, with a few exceptions, like neurotic llrrrpp.)
You've heard of those children born without a sense of pain? Those children seem blessed, but they die young. Their bodies don't shift when circulation gets cut off. They cannot avoid dangerous situations, because they cannot anticipate the outcome.
Elaine, you have your sense of anxiety for a reason. Listen to it. Don't go tomorrow. Just don't show up. No reasons necessary.
I think an excellent thing to do would be to contact an abuse counselor. This is someone who probably has experience dealing with young women who are vulnerable and in crisis. You don't have to be tiny and wasting away to be in a crisis. (Lucky for me, really). You cannot be expected to understand everything that's going on around you.
Just know that you're not safe with this guy. Your not safe with him as your lover. You're not safe with him as your T. I don't even think you're safe with him in the same room. If he's willing to sacrifice his career for you (that's essentially what he did, by sending you those e-mails. There is hard evidence in his harddrive, and both of your e-mail servers of his misconduct and abuse), he may be willing to break the law. Please take care of yourself.
I hope you can get a little sleep tonight. Try lying quietly in your bed, and promise yourself that you won't get out of bed. No matter what. Not to injure yourself, not to provoke yourself by reading his emails. Just give your senses a chance to get calm again. Tomorrow's going to be hard. If you can get a head start on it by e-mailing or calling the crisis counselor, it may help put your mind at rest, but if you need to wait until the morning that's okay too.
Stay safe Elaine. I like you just the way you are.
calm vibes~~~
love,
-ll
Posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 22:40:26
In reply to Re: meltdown » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on August 27, 2006, at 21:45:22
Sunny>>>>It's not your concern how he feels, even if you think it is.
I know - I think. I warned him in the beginning that I'd wreck him. I told him that I infect people, and he said that that would never happen. And now I'm being forced to do something that will make that all come true. He was not like this a year ago. I want him to tell me what I did. I need to know or I'll keep doing it. I ruined him as a T. I want him to hit me instead of love. Caring was good, but he made it gross now.
(((((caraher))))) You are a nice man. I know that much. I believe you when you say that you won't dislike me if I don't leave him. But if I stay I will be disgusted -- you'd think that would be enough. Why is he not like you? I'm not afraid of you. ...this is just like before. I have to calm down.
LL: I would never use them as weapons but I do have every paper letter he's sent, and the poems on copies of his legal documents, and pages and pages of Email Subject lines. I don't think that he understands that what he's sent me, or how he's spoken to me, is wrong -- I didn't think it was strange (in a bad way) until really recently.
I've never thought about physical pain the way you described it. It is hard to remember when it's worst, but I forget that it sometimes has a purpose.
I WILL email the counsellor tomorrow. My coverage only lasts until Sept 1st but maybe she knows someone outside of the university. I'm so scared. I mean, I'll do it, but I can't stop thinking about trying those two other times. If it happens again I'll just die. I don't know what in the world I'll say but I'll send her a message before I go, IF I go, tomorrow. And I just saw your other message, and I'd love to have a cat right now. I can't stop saying I'm afraid.
I'll try and sleep tonight but I doubt it. I want to throw up from nerves. I can't stand tomorrow -- I don't want it to come. My eyes are sore.
thinking of you all, EL
Posted by happyflower on August 28, 2006, at 4:01:31
In reply to Sunny, Caraher, LL, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 22:40:26
Hi Elaine,
I know I haven't been around much, but I felt I just had to say something when I read your post. Everyone has said what I think also of your T. But I realize the horrible postition you are in.
Sometimes "bad love" feels good especially because of the past you have experienced. It is hard to let go of someone who seems to care about you especially since they seem to be the only one in this world you feel you can count on.
I too feel alone, and sometimes my T is the only one I can confide in. It makes me feel so pathetic at times. But I am slowly learning other people care about me and maybe I could trust to confide in a couple of people. But it has taken a long time to get that far.
I am really worried about what your T is doing to you, it is so wrong. He really isn't your T anymore, so you do need to try to find another one. You need someone for YOU. It is suppose to be about you, you are worthy, you will be okay, and you will prevail above all of this, because I see your strengh. ((((((Elaine)))
Posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 9:12:55
In reply to (((((((Elaine))))))), posted by happyflower on August 28, 2006, at 4:01:31
You are sooooo brave, Elaine. Sending you lots of strength and good wishes for whatever you choose to do. I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you to do. But you CAN do it. I think emailing the counselor is a good idea, I really really hope she helps you. You are doing a great job, just keep trying. ((((ElaineM)))
sunnydays
Posted by annierose on August 28, 2006, at 16:47:02
In reply to (((((((Elaine))))))), posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 9:12:55
I've been thinking of you and hope you are safe.
Annierose
Posted by Tamar on August 28, 2006, at 17:30:42
In reply to meltdown (sooo long) **triggers, posted by ElaineM on August 27, 2006, at 19:04:17
Whatever happens... and whatever you do... and whatever you decide... we're *always* going to be here for you.((((((((((Elaine))))))))))
Posted by llrrrpp on August 28, 2006, at 19:12:08
In reply to We love you, Elaine » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on August 28, 2006, at 17:30:42
Posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
In reply to Me love you too Elaine. Love, lurps (nm), posted by llrrrpp on August 28, 2006, at 19:12:08
happy, annie, sunny, tamar, lurp -- you guys are so nice. You make me braver.
I'm so exhausted from yesterday AND today. After I made my last post last night, I decided that I would email the counsellor before I went to bed, while I was still really worked up, so I wouldn't chicken out. So I did. I must've sounded crazy. It's embarassing to read now cause it sounds like I was still posting on here. Like, I said sorry to the poor woman a bunch of times. Told her that she didn't HAVE to respond if she didn't want to. (so dumb, It's not like it's even about her wanting or not wanting) I told her to forgive me cause I was nervous and that I was probably being silly. I was sooo afraid to send it. ANd when I checked this morning this was waiting, titled "Autoreply":
Your message has been filed for future reading.
I am out of the office due to family emergency. Please call the front desk for immediate assistance at #. You can also call the 24 hour ********* Rape Crisis centre at #. I will return messages when I am able.
Sorry for any inconvenience.I read it like a hundred times thinking it must be a mistake -- I wanted to scream "Are you kidding me". I was really upset and thought, This is a sign, just like before, I'm just not supposed to do this. And I got ready to go and see my T to see if I could fix stuff, or have him yell, or whatever he was going to do. But then I checked my mail once more closer to lunchtime to read help from you all, and the woman had sent a real reply. So, I guess her emergency was before the weekend. She was really nice sounding and said she understood that I'd be scared to speak in person, especially if I had been turned away from there before (she works in the first place, where the guy said that they didn't deal with problems like mine). She said that she could only see me once (because I'm not a registered student since I've graduated) but that maybe we could figure out something else for me. So she offered me a bunch of times to pick from and said she'd get back to confirm. I didn't hear from her yet about the confirmation. But I asked for Friday. The other day was on Sept7th and that seemed too far away.
I'm scared to go back there, but I'm scared all the time. She was a nice lady too. She even said that just because I wasn't physically or sexually assaulted doesn't mean that I don't deserve to speak to someone. The only thing I didn't do (and I feel really guilty about it) was warn her that the person I'd be talking about is my T. I've learned that other professionals are very uncomfortable with the subject. As soon as I mentioned it to the Psych Services pdoc she ended the intake interview right away. I don't have much options now, but I'm afraid to be letdown again.
I did go to my session too. I was shaking when I came in. He didn't even ask for an update like he usually does. He gave me a five page print out -- he read it outloud as I followed along. He told me that he's concerned that I've made the sessions mirror my regular life where nothing gets done, and I don't try, and only bide my time existing. And he kept on about how I must give an answer, even though I was. I was explaining that I didn't know what to say, that I was confused and afraid, but he couldn't get it. He kept saying I wasn't answering. And he wrote alot about how he doesn't like feeling that he has to "entertain me" during sessions. He was upset that I don't come with my journal to read to him anymore and that by not bringing him my writing I'm throwing away my responsibility to create sessions. He said there were three of us in this relationship: him, me and my anxiety. And that I let anxiety control us. I need to do more and he spoke of using alcohol and ativan to silence Anxiety so WE could do what we wanted together. He said that even though I've said that I only want to be pleasing, that I still don't follow through with what he says he wants us to do -- like movies and theater and sailing. Mainly he kept saying how uncomfortable I've made him, that his expression of love was a "cry for help" for me to give him more connection to make him feel better inside.
I just kept trying to explain myself. I told him that he was being unfair by putting me incharge of everything. I was super scared but I said it. I said that I was supposed to be dysfunctional, that HE was the doctor. I didn't say it mean though -- kinda quietly. He was a bit upset and said that he can't help having the same character flaws as me -- like too much sensitivity, and anxiety. It's true -- he's a human too.
I'm not as scared right now. He only held my hand the whole time and pet my arms. Which I guess is okay. Not really, but better than something worse. I don't know how to structure my sessions. What do regular people talk about? He said I made him change his way of being, but now I'm drawing back, and it makes him antsy when we meet. I don't know, I'm tired. I don't want to ever be so scared again.
I love you guys, I need you so much. I hope the Counsellor gives me the Friday appointment. I miss my LadyDoctor so much. (((((everyone))))))
EL
Posted by Fallsfall on August 28, 2006, at 20:31:24
In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
Elaine,
If he gave you a copy of the printout, you should bring it with you on Friday.
Best of luck,
Falls
Posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 20:44:38
In reply to Re: Today » ElaineM, posted by Fallsfall on August 28, 2006, at 20:31:24
Good job, Elaine. I'm so proud of you. Try to bring as much as you can to show the lady on Friday. And what your T said just confirms for me that you need to get out of that relationship as soon as you can. Any T that would suggest alcohol as a way to calm anxiety is irresponsible at best. That's how some people get addicted to alcohol is using it as a way to numb their emotions. Good job for making that appointment. I can't say more because I'm a little out of it from my T appointment. It was very intense - I might be joining a trauma group, which I'm nervous about. But he's really trying to help me learn to set boundaries and see what's normal, and I could really see he cares about me today. (((((((Elaine))))))) Good job.
sunnydays
Posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:53:49
In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on August 28, 2006, at 20:17:52
I'm proud of you for reminding him that HE is the "doctor." Sure he has his own frailties, but in this case they mean he needs to find another line of work (since evidently they prevent him from maintaining a healthy therapeutic relationship with you).
I, too, hope you get the Friday appointment. You need help from sources other than us and your "T."
Actually, your T did make an insightful observation when he challenged your statement that you "only want to be pleasing." The fact is that you have not done everything your T wants you to do. That's GOOD! Somewhere inside, you know there are things you don't want to do and have found ways not to do them. Perhaps you can build on that knowledge and slowly re-establish more normal boundaries. Maybe something as simple as asking him not to stroke your arms... though I'd recommend getting away from him entirely if at all possible!
If he wants you to take charge of sessions, perhaps you ought to write about the ways he's being unfair to you, and stick to that topic no matter how much he tries to change it. Point out the ways in which he exploits your ill health, poor family support and fear of being alone to pressure you into being what he wants you to be and doing what he wants you to do. Remind him yet again that it is he as your T with a special responsibility toward you, and not vice-versa.
Maybe that would be WAY too hard for you! I totally understand if it is. But I wish you the strength to do at least something to stand up to him.
(((El)))
Posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:56:35
In reply to Re: Today, posted by sunnydays on August 28, 2006, at 20:44:38
Adding to what sunnydays said... usually it's advised not to mix alcohol and ativan. The combination can make you dizzy, clumsy, light-headed... I'm sure you need THAT! It sounds like your T is asking you to take your own homebrew "date r*pe drug..." strictly so you can do what "WE" really want.
Posted by frida on August 28, 2006, at 22:01:09
In reply to Re: Today, posted by caraher on August 28, 2006, at 20:53:49
Dear Elaine,
I don't think I've posted to you before but I've been reading and what you've just shared really makes me afraid for you.
I hope your appt on Friday can bring you some relief. This is not the way T should be. :-(
No T should suggest using alchohol as a way to handle anxiety..that truly makes me feel worried for you. And everything he's saying about what *he* wants..and just how he's making you feel...
Please be careful..I hope you can tell the woman you'll be seeing on Friday.
you need a safe , supportive T ...I hope she can help you find one...and I hope you can tell her what's going on.
YOu can do this, there is support out there....
good therapists...safety..Please know you are not alone
Frida
Posted by muffled on August 28, 2006, at 22:30:55
In reply to Re: Today, posted by frida on August 28, 2006, at 22:01:09
I could say stuff.
But others have said it.
My dam telephone/internet was down, just got fixed today.
Just read this today.Now.
Scarey.
But the thing that leapt out at me out of this is HOW absolutely amazing and kind and brave and determined you are.
OMG, I would be so paralyzed.
I think in the grand scheme of life, that there's a job for you to do, once you have gotten things in your life together.
You have so much to offer.
To help others.
You are so amazing.
And horrible though this whole thing is, you are learning SO much.
And kindly allowing us to join you in this journey.
And already helping others who are undoubtedtly reading your posts, but too afraid to say anything.
Your life is hard right now.
But thru this you will be able to help SO many people in future.
I can feel this is a strong gift that you have.
I send you hugs, and I am with you all the way.
You are so NOT disgusting, you are AMAZING.
I'm so, so sorry bout your T.
It does sound as if he has some issues which are beyond what you can help him with at this time.
Proly the best thing may be for you guys to not see each other for awhile. No contact in any way.
There seems to be some kindness in him, he just needs help from someone more qualified.
And if he proves obsessive, it would be helpful to have a qualified T on your side.
The woman you have contacted sounds wonderful really.
Let her help you. Let her help you find someone. Its ok to lean on people a bit sometimes when you've got nowhere else to turn.
Wish I could do more.
Dunno where you live, and you are wise to keep your privacy on the internet.
Your amazing El.
Please don't hesitate to post and let us know whats happening.
Muffled
Posted by llrrrpp on August 29, 2006, at 5:07:42
In reply to (((((((((((((((((((((((((El))))))))))))))))))))))), posted by muffled on August 28, 2006, at 22:30:55
El,
you are showing yourself to be so strong through this incredible ordeal. A lesser person would have given in already, but you are fighting the romantic entanglement. Even though you're going to your appts, your T is sensing that you're not a willing participant in this particular relationship, and he's getting desparate. Well, stay strong. Remember to listen to your feelings. If you only wanted to be punished, you would have submitted a long time ago. I think you are learning what true love is, in the cruelest way possible- by counterexample. If your T loved you the way you deserved, you wouldn't be scared of him, and he wouldn't be manipulating you. Nope. His "love" for you is completely one-sided, selfish, and self-destructive.You always say stuff about how you're afraid you'll "infect" people. Well, think about all the therapeutic relationships you've had to date-- the people who treated you kindly in your treatment, and in particular your ladydoc. You haven't infected them, and you haven't infected us either.
I think it's much more likely that your current "T" has infected you with a sense of doubt and insecurity, in order to weaken you to a point where you will be dependent on him for every single decision you make. You are wise to resist.
Here's some more support for the strength you need this week. count me in, I'm on Team Elaine.
-ll
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