![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 175 to 199 of 232. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2006, at 23:22:48
In reply to Re: We can put together a list, posted by Dr. Bob on December 29, 2005, at 1:00:31
> there could be advantages to a list of potential risks, benefits, and alternatives. Would anyone like to add anything else?
No one did, but here's what I've come up with:
Potential benefits to group members include: They may feel empowered by the opportunity to discuss their experiences with mental health professionals in person and may gain a deeper appreciation of the effects, for better or for worse, of participation in online peer support groups. The primary objective of the workshop is, however, to benefit the workshop attendees, not the group members.
Possible risks to group members include: They may find it stressful to speak in public about themselves or mental health issues. They may be treated disrespectfully by other group members, by workshop attendees (who may, for example, ask questions they regard as invasions of privacy), or by third parties (who may picket this meeting). They may be recognized by workshop attendees. Their experiences may be reported by me or by members of the press who may be in attendance.
Safeguards include: Group members will speak only to workshop attendees in small groups. They will not be obligated to respond to any questions. Admittance to the workshop will be restricted to registered meeting attendees. I will inform everyone at the beginning of the workshop that I may later write about it. Members of the press will not be allowed to tape the proceedings. Group members will be able to participate in the workshop (as they do in the group itself) under pseudonyms. Group members will have the opportunity to discuss these risks with me -- and with each other, which might in some ways actually be an improvement on the usual informed consent process. No group members will be obligated to go to Toronto; if they do go to Toronto (for the group birthday party that weekend), they will not be obligated to go to the workshop; and if they do go to the workshop, they will be able to leave at any time.
Regarding becoming registered meeting attendees, could Babblers planning to attend please email me? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Deneb on May 2, 2006, at 0:04:11
In reply to Re: potential benefits and risks, posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2006, at 23:22:48
OMGosh, you scared me Dr. Bob. You make it sound so scary.
I don't know if I'll be able to handle it, but I want to see you, so I will go.
I'm going to try. Please don't be angry with me if I end up hiding in a corner.
Eeeek, I think I might face a corner and hide there. I'm not exaggerating. Dr. Bob, do you think people there will make fun of me or stare at me if I hid in a corner? Maybe I will hide until I can compose myself.
Dr. Bob, will you be listening in on the small groups? Are you going to be writing about our experiences with Babble? Will you get into specific details? Like if I talk about this whole loving you experience, will you write about it? It's okay if you do, but I would just like to prepare myself you know.
Deneb*
Posted by Poet on May 2, 2006, at 10:36:14
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting?, posted by Deneb on April 29, 2006, at 22:58:32
Hi Deneb,
I am definitely scared. See my post below
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060422/msgs/638092.html
<<Would it be a good idea to talk about how Babble has helped and at times harmed me? Would it be a good idea to then explain how Babble has reacted to my threats? Would that be focusing too much on me?
I think you've come up with some good ideas on what you might talk about.
Poet
Posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:37:54
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting?, posted by Deneb on April 29, 2006, at 22:58:32
I'm not worried.
Remember that these are professionals. They are at this meeting for one reason (ok, except for the parties and freebies) and that is to learn something. If they go to a presentation, it is because they think they can take something away from it. They're not just going for fun - there is something in it for them.
What will they see when they see us? They will see people, ordinary people, with problems. People wanting to get over an illness. People who *don't* expect it to all come from a magic pill. People who are willing to do anything and work hard to get there.
Remember that *we* are *not* doing a presentation, Dr. Bob is. We are there to converse, to answer questions, to tell our side. Our perspectives will be as varied as we are. There is no wrong answer, unless it isn't what you see as the truth. *Your* truth, not anyone else's.
Posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:39:13
In reply to Re: potential benefits and risks » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on May 2, 2006, at 0:04:11
They are probably more afraid of us than we are of them.
Posted by muffled on May 3, 2006, at 14:21:52
In reply to Re: shrinks are like snakes, posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:39:13
Posted by 10derHeart on May 3, 2006, at 15:28:26
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:37:54
Yup, that pretty much sums up how I feel, too. But, I do understand the anticipation (nearly *always* far worse than the actual event) could lead one to get wound up with self-doubt, worry, etc.
Why do I feel the urge to use that tired, old expression about how..."pdocs put their pants on the same way you (we) do...one leg at a time.....?" Or something like that...;-)
(Or I am just losing it and my unconscious is wanting to consider pdocs putting on their pants!!
:-0 !! Nah, don't think that's it....)Seriously though, that expression may be corny, yet it's true. We were all *just* people first, before we became Babblers, or posters, or pdocs, or patients, clients, mental health consumers - whatever. And *people* have a great deal in common with one another. I try not to lose sight of that when I find myself starting to feel intimidated by someone because of their education, profession, credentials, position of power. None of those things [should] take away someone's ability to listen, learn, relate and feel empathy for others.
I think it's going to be an excellent experience for us all.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 3, 2006, at 15:30:50
In reply to Re: shrinks are like snakes, posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:39:13
> They are probably more afraid of us than we are of them.
as well they should be....................***MWAH HA HA***
(jk jk...really ;-0 )
Posted by Deneb on May 3, 2006, at 17:39:10
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » AuntieMel, posted by 10derHeart on May 3, 2006, at 15:28:26
> Yup, that pretty much sums up how I feel, too. But, I do understand the anticipation (nearly *always* far worse than the actual event) could lead one to get wound up with self-doubt, worry, etc.
I've had the opposite happen too...I wouldn't be anxious before the event, but would get anxious during the event. It would surprise me very much if I wasn't anxious at all during the workshop.
> Seriously though, that expression may be corny, yet it's true. We were all *just* people first, before we became Babblers, or posters, or pdocs, or patients, clients, mental health consumers - whatever.
I think I would be just as afraid if they were my peers. I hope they realize we are all just people too. I'm a bit worried they might look down upon us just because we are not pdocs. I'm also worried that my anxiety will show. What will they think? Then again, maybe I don't give them enough credit. Maybe they will understand because they are human.
> And *people* have a great deal in common with one another. I try not to lose sight of that when I find myself starting to feel intimidated by someone because of their education, profession, credentials, position of power. None of those things [should] take away someone's ability to listen, learn, relate and feel empathy for others.
There are all sorts of people, maybe some will let it take away those abilities. What if there are some really insensitive people there? How do I know they won't make fun of me? There's no way to know.
> I think it's going to be an excellent experience for us all.I think it will be an interesting experience for me.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on May 3, 2006, at 18:04:14
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » 10derHeart, posted by Deneb on May 3, 2006, at 17:39:10
Dr. Bob, you've been to these APA meetings before, how are the people usually? Are they likely to make fun of us and look down upon us?
Dr. Bob, what would you like me to talk about? Am I going to seem weird if I talk about Babble things that are important to *me*? Do you think it would be okay to talk about those things? Is it okay to talk about bad things that have happened because of Babble? What would you like our talks to be about? Dr. Bob, you're a big part of Babble for me, is it okay if I talk about you?
I'm worried what I talk about will be very different from what others talk about.
Dr. Bob, what should I wear to the APA? What do people usually wear? I want to fit in.
Dr. Bob, I'm asking you a lot of questions, aren't I? LOL Do you mind if I ask you questions? :-)
Deneb*
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2006, at 23:11:46
In reply to Re: Questions for Dr. Bob LOL, posted by Deneb on May 3, 2006, at 18:04:14
Often when a group breaks up into smaller groups for discussion, the presenter has prepared some questions or topics to frame the discussion. It might help with decreasing anxiety for those who are participating if they had some idea of how the discussion part of the presentation will be framed. Do you have some general topics or questions for the groups to discuss? Or perhaps if you have formulated a rough idea of what you will say when you break the members into small groups, could you share it with us now?
If I were going, I would want to know this in advance if possible. That would ease my mind a bit.
gg
Posted by fallsfall on May 4, 2006, at 6:42:08
In reply to Re: Questions for Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2006, at 23:11:46
Or if we could see your PowerPoint slides? So we know what will have just been said?
Posted by madeline on May 4, 2006, at 6:58:23
In reply to Re: Questions for Dr. Bob, posted by fallsfall on May 4, 2006, at 6:42:08
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2006, at 22:27:42
In reply to Re: Questions for Dr. Bob, posted by fallsfall on May 4, 2006, at 6:42:08
> Dr. Bob, you've been to these APA meetings before, how are the people usually? Are they likely to make fun of us and look down upon us?
>
> Dr. Bob, what would you like me to talk about? Am I going to seem weird if I talk about Babble things that are important to *me*? Do you think it would be okay to talk about those things? Is it okay to talk about bad things that have happened because of Babble? What would you like our talks to be about? Dr. Bob, you're a big part of Babble for me, is it okay if I talk about you?
>
> I'm worried what I talk about will be very different from what others talk about.
>
> Dr. Bob, what should I wear to the APA? What do people usually wear? I want to fit in.
>
> Deneb*> Often when a group breaks up into smaller groups for discussion, the presenter has prepared some questions or topics to frame the discussion. It might help with decreasing anxiety for those who are participating if they had some idea of how the discussion part of the presentation will be framed. Do you have some general topics or questions for the groups to discuss? Or perhaps if you have formulated a rough idea of what you will say when you break the members into small groups, could you share it with us now?
>
> ggI think they're likely to be civil. :-)
Yes, talk about what's important to you personally. As far as general topics, I thought Tamar had good ideas:
> Things we’ve learned here
> Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> Things we find useful about Babble
> Things we find frustrating about BabbleWear what you wear to Babble. :-) Seriously, whatever's comfortable.
Here's the overall structure:
Abstract
The Internet empowers patients by connecting them not only to information, but also to each other. This workshop introduces participants to two specific online peer support groups, one small and private, the other large and public. The moderators of the groups explain how the groups function, including what the goals of the groups are, how the group members interact, what topics are discussed, how the moderators moderate, and what the pros and cons of the groups are. The focus of the session, however, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource. In this workshop, in other words, patients are empowered to teach doctors. All participants regroup for concluding questions and answers.
Educational Objectives
At the conclusion of this presentation, the psychiatrists should be able to describe:
1. How online peer support groups function.
2. How participation in online peer support groups affects group members, for better or for worse.Agenda (Minutes : Topic)
05 : Introduction
15 : One model: a small, private group
15 : Another: a large, public group
40 : Small group discussion with group members
15 : Questions and answers> Or if we could see your PowerPoint slides?
>
> fallsfallSure, my introductory comments are (a large file) at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/download/handout.pdf
Bob
Posted by Deneb on May 5, 2006, at 0:06:31
In reply to Re: what to talk about, posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2006, at 22:27:42
Thank-you soooo much for answering our questions!
Yay!
(((Bob)))
Deneb*
Posted by madeline on May 5, 2006, at 20:59:23
In reply to Re: what to talk about, posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2006, at 22:27:42
Posted by pseudoname on May 9, 2006, at 16:59:16
In reply to Thanks! An interesting read. (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by madeline on May 5, 2006, at 20:59:23
I just posted some info & links that I collected for my own obsessiveness about the workshop to the planning listserv.
I'm hoping we civilians can go to some of the other presentations. There's a forum on the latest Harry Potter book with SIX psychiatrists on the panel! I'm glad it's not at the same time as Bob's workshop or I might have to skip Bob's. (Just kidding, Dr. Bob.) ;-)
Posted by Deneb on May 9, 2006, at 21:43:04
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2006, at 9:37:54
I think I'm going to be scared. I have not spoken to a group for about 5 years. I'm also not used to doing all the talking. Most times, I just listen.
What if I get really scared? What if my voice quivers? I don't know if I can do this. What if my social anxiety comes on full force? What if one of the worse possible things happen? What if I get a panic attack? I haven't had a true attack since childhood, but what if?
So many "what if's"
But really...WHAT IF???
What will happen? I would make a fool of myself. How horrible it would be, to have Dr. Bob, Babblers and those pdocs see me freaking out? I won't be able to breathe and I'll start jumping around frantically and think I'm dying...you know, really freak out big time. Aaaaahh! What will they think? I would ruin Dr. Bob's presentation if that happened.
This is getting scary...I gotta stop thinking of the worse.
Anyone else thinking of the worse?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on May 9, 2006, at 22:59:04
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting?, posted by Deneb on May 9, 2006, at 21:43:04
I just thought of something.
My pdoc would ask me, "So, what if you had a panic attack during the workshop? What do you think the others would think?"
Here is my cue to come up with a reasonable answer.
My reasonable answer would be:
Well, they'll probably think I'm having a panic attack. I assume everyone there will be familiar with panic attacks. Everyone will understand. I would probably have to leave the room for a few minutes and go back in when I'm ready. No big deal, people probably won't even notice too much.
Then I would probably say:
The chances of me having a panic attack during the workshop are very very slim. I haven't had a truly terrifying panic attack since childhood and strong wind is my trigger, not public speaking.
:-)
Deneb*
Posted by 10derHeart on May 9, 2006, at 23:55:58
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting?, posted by Deneb on May 9, 2006, at 21:43:04
Deneb.....what you wrote there was awesome!!
I'm so proud of you! (Hope it's okay if I say that) You have done some changing and growing here, and I feel privileged to have been allowed to be even a tiny part of it.
I don't think the Monday thing will be all that bad. I think it'll be fairly small groups. I think it'll feel more casual and laid back than you imagine. I think we'll be sitting there with the others and the pdocs and just contrubute something if we're ready, we want to and we can. I think what happens a lot of times is once a topic gets going, you warm up to it and just say something because you *totally* know what the other person is talking about. After all, who are more experts on Babble and what an online community is like than we are, right? And I've always found it heaps easier to speak about something when you are the expert. Increases confidence automatically. But if you don't, so what? That's realy, really okay, too. Trying counts, IMO.
Not that we won't all be buddies, 'cause we will, but if it'll help, I'll stick by you that day. I'm not afraid of whatever may or may not happen. But I know how it feels to be VERY anxious and VERY nervous in similar settings. I'm just better about it now. Maybe on a different point in the path that you are - but never forgetting how it can feel.
Your post reminded me of a group session one time with my ex-T. One of the women there also had bad panic attacks in her past (I know you don't, since it was only one years ago), and the last one had only been about 3 weeks prior. She felt bad she was too afraid to walk up to the front of her church anymore (where she'd been going for may years) during a certain part of the service that meant a lot to her (where others were also doing the same.) She was scared she'd just fall down as her legs would go weak or something from panic symptoms. I remember he asked her if she thought people would just stand there if something did start to happen. She said no, they'd help me. He also said he was pretty sure if he looked like he was about to fall down in his own church that people would definitely catch him, or help him, and not make it seem like it was terrible or anything.
She thought for a minute and said yes, they were nice friends, and would only be worried FOR her, not disgusted, or embarrassed, or anything she'd been imagining. I'm sure the problem wasn't *fixed* that moment, but I also thought that woman may have taken a big step forward with just that simple, calm, interaction with my ex-T. Seems almost silly afterwards, but really, sometimes we can't see it, until we do, and then it's like, "wow - I can change how I experience these thoughts and feelings with some self-talk! How cool!" He was ever so good at teaching CBT stuff, and at psychodynamic, too. Well, he just plain cared and he was good. Your pdoc sounds like him in many ways, and he is truly one of the best.
And shoot, when/if I ever get up the guts to tell you guys the kind of stuff that's making me anxious about the trip (so much I've half-seriously thought of canceling)....well, you'll have to try real hard not to laugh, I think. At my age......no excuse. But we all have *something*
It'll be fine, Deneb. I'm sure of it.
Posted by Deneb on May 10, 2006, at 17:08:36
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on May 9, 2006, at 23:55:58
Thanks 10derHeart!
Thanks for saying you'll stick by my side. That means a lot to me. :-) I know I'll feel better, knowing you're pulling for me.
Thanks for the story about that woman. It's a good example of thinking out of one's anxieties.
> And shoot, when/if I ever get up the guts to tell you guys the kind of stuff that's making me anxious about the trip (so much I've half-seriously thought of canceling)....well, you'll have to try real hard not to laugh, I think. At my age......no excuse. But we all have *something*
You've made me curious. Now we're going to start imagining all sorts of things. LOL. Just kidding. I would respect that it's a big deal to you, but at the same time try to convince you that it's no big deal. ((((10derHeart))))
Deneb*
Posted by pseudoname on May 10, 2006, at 17:49:10
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on May 9, 2006, at 23:55:58
> stuff that's making me anxious about the trip
> (so much I've half-seriously thought of canceling)Nooo!! I sure hope you don't cancel, 10der. I'm looking forward to meeting everyone, and not too many people are going.
My own biggest fear about the trip is the Canadian customs officers.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 10, 2006, at 19:59:44
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » 10derHeart, posted by pseudoname on May 10, 2006, at 17:49:10
>>
> My own biggest fear about the trip is the Canadian customs officers.Do you want to say why? Now I'm wondering if I ought to worry.....?
Posted by pseudoname on May 11, 2006, at 6:46:57
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » pseudoname, posted by 10derHeart on May 10, 2006, at 19:59:44
> Now I'm wondering if I ought to worry.....?
LOL. Oh no!
I've probably been thru Canadian customs 15 times in my life. The only time I've had a problem was one fall, back when we were about 22, my cousin & I had some trouble (having to wait in the office, etc) but got through. We decided they thought we were sneaking in to go to college. So I'm really, what's the word? overgeneralizing. Since 9-11 I've been afraid that it'll be much worse, but people who've been through say not.
Plus my passport expired a long time ago, so I'll have to use my birth certificate, which has a technical problem... maybe they won't notice.
It's better if you're flying.
Please don't catch *my* neurotic anxiety. ;-D
Posted by Poet on May 11, 2006, at 9:29:29
In reply to Re: Anyone else scared about the APA meeting? » pseudoname, posted by 10derHeart on May 10, 2006, at 19:59:44
I haven't been through Canadian customs since before 9/11, but I've been through the Bahamas and Mexico with no problems. One of the Mexico trips my passport expired the day I came back into the U.S. and still had no problem with U.S. customs.
So I'm not afraid to come into Toronto. I'm nervous about presenting, but will take anti anxiety meds, a fist full if need be. I'm worried about getting lost as I can't read maps and won't ask for directions (I know self defeating behavior ;-) I'm not so worried about meeting other posters, which is a good sign. I think...
Poet
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.