![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 81 to 105 of 232. Go back in thread:
Posted by 10derHeart on November 29, 2005, at 0:03:40
In reply to anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2005, at 22:55:18
>>anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?<<
Are you flirting with me, Larry Hoover?<<grin>>
Posted by alexandra_k on November 29, 2005, at 3:43:02
In reply to anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2005, at 22:55:18
you mean not only am i going to miss the chance to meet everybody...
but i'm also going to be missing out on a night with larry hoover??????
:-(
;-)
Posted by Deneb on November 29, 2005, at 9:23:47
In reply to anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2005, at 22:55:18
> I gotta keep the costs down, 'cause the butter tarts I'm bringing are gonna kill my budget......
>
> Just thought I'd ask.
>
> LarHey Lar
I'm going to stay at a hostel right in the centre of downtown to keep costs down. It would be nice to have a friend there. ;-)
It's OK if hostels are not your thing. I don't know if they are my thing either.
Deneb
Posted by Voce on November 29, 2005, at 9:45:12
In reply to anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2005, at 22:55:18
Whoever stays with Lar will get first crack at those butter tarts!!!
Wish I could be there. Now, if you guys ever want to come to the California coast, that would be an awesome time!!
Posted by Dinah on November 29, 2005, at 9:45:15
In reply to anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 28, 2005, at 22:55:18
Keeping costs down would be great. Toronto looks a bit expensive?
But I'm reasonably sure my husband would have some objections. :) You should have seen his list of instructions *last* time!
Posted by Dinah on November 29, 2005, at 9:46:18
In reply to One thing's certain, posted by Voce on November 29, 2005, at 9:45:12
I think it would be great if Dr. Bob could manage a California conference next year. :) I know lots of California Babblers I'd love to meet.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2005, at 16:33:45
In reply to Re: anybody wanna share a hotel room with me? » Larry Hoover, posted by 10derHeart on November 29, 2005, at 0:03:40
I was surprised, both by the responses yet received, and by my naive short-sightedness. Perhaps I should have posted a questionnaire. Replies by babblemail would ensure confidentiality.
1. Would you prefer:
a) co-ed
b) conjugal
c) other (please define)2. How many nights would you be staying (Friday/Saturday/Sunday):
a) one night. I prefer (select preferred evening)
b) two nights (select evenings desired)
c) three nights
d) forever
e) who said anything about nights? You never heard of a quickie?3. Gender:
a) male
b) female
c) surprise!4. Proportion of costs:
a) dutch
b) we'll work something out
c) you don't expect ME to pay, do you?5. Do you prefer your butter tarts:
a) with raisins
b) plain
c) what the heck is a butter tart?Please reply by December 15, so that suitable arrangements can be made.
Regards,
Lar
Posted by alexandra_k on November 29, 2005, at 16:54:06
In reply to Re: anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2005, at 16:33:45
Posted by Poet on November 29, 2005, at 18:58:45
In reply to Re: anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2005, at 16:33:45
I scored four Cs and a B. I'm female, so that lets you know which is the B. I would share a room with you, but I'm a married female- darn it.
Poet
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2005, at 21:29:28
In reply to One thing's certain, posted by Voce on November 29, 2005, at 9:45:12
> Now, if you guys ever want to come to the California coast, that would be an awesome time!!
Let's see how it goes in Toronto first, but one option might be to continue to coordinate with the APA:
2007
May 19-24
San Diego, CA2008
May 3-8
Washington, DC2009
May 16-21
San Francisco, CAhttp://psych.org/edu/ann_mtgs/futuremtgs/index.cfm
OTOH, that may make lodging more difficult...
Bob
Posted by thuso on November 30, 2005, at 0:26:09
In reply to Re: California coast, posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2005, at 21:29:28
> Let's see how it goes in Toronto first, but one option might be to continue to coordinate with the APA:
>
> 2007
> May 19-24
> San Diego, CA
>
> 2008
> May 3-8
> Washington, DC
>
> 2009
> May 16-21
> San Francisco, CA
>
> http://psych.org/edu/ann_mtgs/futuremtgs/index.cfm
>
> OTOH, that may make lodging more difficult...
>
> BobI was thinking the same thing! Come on over to my neck of the woods in 2008! :-)
What might be good is if you decide to do that, see if anyone lives in that area and can help coordinate best places to stay, restaurants, how to get from point A to point B locally, etc. These are all very major cities, so I wouldn't doubt if at least one person on here lived in these areas. I know I don't plan on leaving DC anytime soon. And at least here in DC, it really helps to have a local who knows how to stay away from expensive tourist traps. Otherwise, you're likely to spend $20 for a shirt when you can go two blocks and get 5 shirts for $10 (seriously!!!). hahaha! :-P
And what's nice is that next year is the west coast, then it goes to the east coast, and then heads back to the west coast. That would give people from all over a chance to join in the gathering. Not everyone can fly across the country.
But of course...PB still has to exist for the foreseeable future for this to work. I'm all for it!
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2005, at 9:58:25
In reply to Re: California coast, posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2005, at 21:29:28
But don't they ever go anyplace with a low cost of living? :)
I'm interested in how different it will feel this year. Everyone of course wants to meet with each other, but at a meeting where you're understandably quite busy with other things, your participation may be not only more limited in time but less focused in attention. And I'm worried about how that might work out because I think, like it or not, an opportunity to meet you and see if you talk in full paragraphs in person (he does) is part of the draw. :)
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2005, at 10:09:58
In reply to Re: what is expected, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2005, at 0:50:05
> > I guess one question I'd be interested in is who is the target audience? Are these pyschopharmacologists or people who do therapy? Or people who do mainly prescribing, but are interested in other aspects of psychiatric self help.
>
> It's hard to know who's going to show up. Sorry about all the unknowns!Those unknowns are so large as to be daunting. The interest could lie in questions about the accuracy of information on Babble, the implications of early side-effect information (we all knew many of the side effects the doctors and drug companies are only now admitting), and how much trouble Babble is likely to cause them in encouraging us to try to be our own doctors as opposed or challenge their opinions.
Or the interest could be in how Babble contributes or detracts from the therapeutic relationship. Fears about being negatively judged by posters. Or interest in how we encourage each other to be open and disclose things to our therapist that we might be otherwise unwilling to disclose.
Or the interest could be more along the nature of how well the internet can serve as a source of peer support. What problems could crop up by participating.
Or the interest could lie somewhere I can't even imagine.
Individual poster/presenters may vary widely in their knowledge of and interest in these and other various topics. And I see some potential for embarassment or awkwardness.
Maybe if we were more familiar with the contents of your presentation, we'd be more able to feel comfortable with our ability to be assets to the presentation?
Posted by Deneb on November 30, 2005, at 12:09:37
In reply to Re: California coast, posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2005, at 21:29:28
I would like to go to California very much. I was born there and lived there until I was 11. I want to go back. It'll be cool to go back, but expensive. Better start saving now eh? :-P
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on November 30, 2005, at 12:33:32
In reply to Re: anybody wanna share a hotel room with me?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2005, at 16:33:45
Anyone want to share a 4 room mixed dorm with me?
Cost is $27.00 CAD or $24.04 USD per person per night.
Deneb
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 30, 2005, at 23:44:33
In reply to Re: what is expected » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on November 30, 2005, at 10:09:58
> Those unknowns are so large as to be daunting. The interest could lie in questions about the accuracy of information on Babble, the implications of early side-effect information (we all knew many of the side effects the doctors and drug companies are only now admitting), and how much trouble Babble is likely to cause them in encouraging us to try to be our own doctors as opposed or challenge their opinions.
>
> Or the interest could be in how Babble contributes or detracts from the therapeutic relationship. Fears about being negatively judged by posters. Or interest in how we encourage each other to be open and disclose things to our therapist that we might be otherwise unwilling to disclose.
>
> Or the interest could be more along the nature of how well the internet can serve as a source of peer support. What problems could crop up by participating.
>
> Individual poster/presenters may vary widely in their knowledge of and interest in these and other various topics. And I see some potential for embarassment or awkwardness.
>
> Maybe if we were more familiar with the contents of your presentation, we'd be more able to feel comfortable with our ability to be assets to the presentation?I'm supposed to explain how the group functions, including what the goals of it are, how the group members interact, what topics are discussed, how I moderate, and what the pros and cons of the group are.
But really the main idea is for you all to have an opportunity to say what's important to *you*, for example:
> Things we’ve learned here
> Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> Things we find useful about Babble
> Things we find frustrating about BabbleI guess there might be questions along other lines, but if it's something you don't feel willing or able to address, I think it would be fine just to suggest that they ask in another small group or after we all regroup together.
Bob
Posted by allisonross on December 1, 2005, at 9:06:16
In reply to Re: what's important to *you*, posted by Dr. Bob on November 30, 2005, at 23:44:33
San Francisco would work for me! I was stationed there in the army, at the Presidio (of San Francisco), which is now a National Park (wonderful to be part of history, LOL, LOL)
Of course, I would rather go to Maine (Heaven)...exiled in the flatlands right now.
Grins, Ally
Posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 10:46:33
In reply to Re: what's important to *you*/San Francisco! » Dr. Bob, posted by allisonross on December 1, 2005, at 9:06:16
If we end up in SF at anytime, I can "co-host" and sort of make hotel suggestions, etc. I'm close enough to do that.
Posted by Deneb on December 5, 2005, at 15:37:48
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion, posted by thuso on November 23, 2005, at 0:49:06
We have to have the handout ready by February 4, 2006.
Should we get cracking on it?
I think the handout should have:
A title
A short intro explaining what Psycho-Babble is and what Psycho-Babble's goals are (I think Dr. Bob would cover this in his introductory talk, should we have this?)
The names of all posters in attendance
A general list of topics posters will discuss like:
>Things we’ve learned here
>Discussions or threads that were significant to us
>What kinds of things we come to Babble for
>Things we find useful about Babble
>Things we find frustrating about Babble
- How Psycho-Babble differs from other sources of support in our lives
etc.Acknowledgements?
Deneb
Posted by Poet on December 7, 2005, at 10:48:37
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion, posted by Deneb on December 5, 2005, at 15:37:48
Hi Deneb,
I think you've summed it up really well. They'll give the pdocs and others, we'll be meeting in small groups with, an idea of who we are and what we'll be talking about.
How will the large group be broken down into small groups? Pre-assigned, so many attendees to a poster? Any insight as to how that will work?
Poet
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:23:53
In reply to Re: handouts - my opinion question for Dr. Bob » Deneb, posted by Poet on December 7, 2005, at 10:48:37
APA web-page about the meeting:
http://psych.org/edu/ann_mtgs/am/06/Presenters
Dr. Bob
Kali Munro
AuntieMel
Annierose
ClearSkies
fallsfall
Dinah (maybe)
ghost
Deneb
10derHeart (maybe)APA small groups presentation will take place on Mon. May 22 from 9-10:30 am at the Toronto Convention Centre
> http://www.mtccc.com/parkingandmaps.cfm (ClearSkies)
________________________________________________________________________
Online Peer Support Groups -- and Support Group Members
The Internet empowers patients by connecting them not only to information, but also to each other. This workshop introduces participants to two specific online peer support groups, one small and private, the other large and public. The moderators of the groups explain how the groups function, including what the goals of the groups are, how the group members interact, what topics are discussed, how the moderators moderate, and what the pros and cons of the groups are. The focus of the session, however, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource. In this workshop, in other words, patients are empowered to teach doctors. All participants regroup for concluding questions and answers.If people who couldn't be there wanted to contribute something in writing, maybe we could work that in somehow? (Dr. Bob)
___________________________________________________________________Perhaps those who cannot attend could contribute to a poster session (gg)
___________________________________________________________________The focus of the session, is small group discussion with group members about their experiences with this type of resource.
If anyone wanted to present something to the group as a whole, that would be great, but I was thinking there might be more interaction if after I gave a little introduction we split up into small groups, and there I think you could just answer questions...(Dr. Bob)
_________________________________________________________________I think a diverse group of posters would mean a range of perspectives, which would add to the experience.
I doubt real names would be necessary. They'll have mine and Kali's...(Dr. Bob)
___________________________________________________________________> > If you plan to distribute handout materials at your workshop, they must be approved in advance by the Subcommittee on Workshops. You need to submit a copy of the material ... by February 4, 2006.
>
> And regarding confidentiality:
>
> > We want you to be aware that APA has an open press policy at all scientific sessions during the meeting... For the purpose of news reporting, members of the media who have been credentialed by the APA Press Room may audio/videotape and/or take notes during any or all of these presentations except when patient confidentiality might be compromised or a presenter specifically requests no audio/videotaping by the press be permitted.
>
> Should I request no taping by the press? No note-taking, even?
>
> Bob
___________________________________________________________________________My first idea is that it might be good to have (at the very least) a handout of brief quotes from Babble users…
I would say it might be a good idea so say no taping, but to allow note-taking, unless all the Babblers who will be present (a) don’t mind being taped; or (b) prefer not to allow note-taking.
>
> Tamar
___________________________________________________________________________Maybe you can do some general polls on here and summarize it on a handout. Maybe ask how often we visit the website, how helpful we find it, our level of participation, how many of the boards we use/participate in, etc. Just make it anonymous. And you can also ask things like if we have a tdoc/pdoc, have we told them about our participation in a board like this. Or something like, if our tdoc/pdoc had suggested using a support website like this, would we have taken their advice and joined. The list can go on and on and on. Since these are Drs, I'm assuming they'll love seeing numbers to back up whatever is said. I know I would! I love charts and graphs. :-D
thuso
_______________________________________________________________________
>I'm OK with audio and note taking, but not video.
> CS
______________________________________________________________________
> > Will there be at least two of us in each small group?
>
> I was thinking 1 poster per group would mean more and therefore smaller groups, but if people are more comfortable doubling up, that would be fine, too.
>
> > Are all the attendees psychiatrists (MDs)? Will they be interested in medication management or in psychological things or both?
> >
> > fallsfall
>
> It's mostly psychiatrists, but not exclusively. I assume there will be interest in both. (Dr. Bob)
____________________________________________________________________________
> > >I just need to know who's coming
> >
> > When do you need to know by?
>
> I don't know, 5/1? That would give us 3 weeks to finalize things? What do you all think? (Dr. Bob)
_________________________________________________________________________
I personally think doing some surveys on here would be a great addition to a handoutAnd if you wanted people who aren't going to be given a chance to write something for a handout, that will take a lot of time also. (thuso)
________________________________________________________________________
> If I were attending this presentation, I think I'd like to see a description of the different boards, maybe some user statistics, etc. on a handout.
>
> gg
___________________________________________________________________________
Maybe we can describe the purpose of each board and how they are used. We can give some statistics about rates of posting and numbers of posters on each board (Deneb)
________________________________________________________________________
> > > We definitely need to describe the various boards and show statistics on participation.
> >
> > Agreed. Should we come up with new descriptions of the boards or use the ones Dr. Bob gave us? Should we show statistics for each board or in general for the site?
> >
> > > Some segments of actual threads would be interesting to include. Show our different takes on things. We wouldn't have to include posting names.
> >
> > That's an interesting idea. Is there a page limit on the handouts? Can we do a small PowerPoint presentation?
>
> Whatever you all would like to contribute is fine, but remember, what's unique is your experience and point of view...
>
> Bob
_________________________________________________________________________
> Perhaps each of us should do our own personal handout with our *unique experience and point of view?* The format could look the same, just content would vary.
>
> Plus some threads showing other points of view, too. Different takes from different posters.
>
> Poet
____________________________________________________________________________
> I don't think that each person doing their own handouts will really be feasible.> So you have to think that the handouts have to be ready before 2/4 and they have to be approved in advance. On top of that, I'm assuming that they will have copies made for each presenter rather than them having to bring their own. I think it will be too chaotic for them to have to guess the number of copies of each handout to make and then keeping everything seperate and in order. It's a heck of a lot easier for them and us to make one handout. There is nothing that says it can't be multiple pages. So if people want to make individual handouts, it will probably need to be part of a packet that everyone gets rather than seperate handouts for each small group. I've helped put on conferences like this (almost as large), and I would have wanted to kill a presenter if they tried something like this because of the amount of work and inconvenience it would cause. I think either creating a universal handout that deals in generalities or a multi-page packet with some of our personal experiences (but kept simple) would be best.
>
> But remember, the participants will probably take away from the presentation more from what you actually say than the personal experiences you have printed on a handout. At least, I would.
thuso
____________________________________________________________________________
> I'm not preparing anything at this point, Dinah. I'm going to go to Toronto to sit there and let people ask me questions. Unless we're otherwise requested, I don't see that there are any standard guidelines for us to follow for preparing handouts of our own. Maybe this is what Dr Bob is doing???
> I'm getting better at Wait And See.
> ClearSkies
________________________________________________________________________
> Maybe we need something to focus on, and maybe then we can decide how we want to put it together for a handout.
>
> I was thinking: if I had the opportunity to teach a bunch of therapists one thing, what would I want them to learn? And why is it important?
>
> Is that a question that appeals to anyone else? If so, we can discuss it a little and open up ways of demonstrating the things that are important to us by including (for example):
> Things we’ve learned here
> Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> Things we find useful about Babble
> Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> So, for example, if I wanted to teach therapists to understand clients’ confusion (or even desperation) about transference feelings, I’d probably write a couple of paragraphs about how people have supported me on the subject; how I’ve tried to support other people; how I’ve felt reading some of the things others have said about their transferential discussions with their therapists; and a note about the many newcomers who post to the psych board about transference and then don’t return. I wonder what happens to them; whether they tell their therapists, and whether their therapists handle it well or badly.
>
> As for putting the handout together… Is there anyone with experience of this kind of thing who would like (or be willing) to take overall responsibility for its structure and content? I imagine it would have to be on the understanding that others would contribute.
>
> I hope I’m not stepping on any toes here…
>
> Tamar
________________________________________________________________________
My idea was just that Kali and I would provide some background, we'd divide into small groups, posters would discuss their experiences here, and we'd come back together again at the end.
>
> Maybe what's not clear is what exactly "discuss" means? I thought Tamar had good ideas:
>
> > Things we’ve learned here
> > Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> > What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> > Things we find useful about Babble
> > Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> But don't go overboard in terms of preparation. It'll also be important, as ClearSkies said:
>
> > to sit there and let people ask me questions.
>
> There's probably a lot that you take for granted that they'll be clueless about!
>
> Bob
_________________________________________________________________________
> I've been thinking about this, and I think perhaps we don't want to lose the focus of the session by trying to "teach" therapist about things like transference. I think what they will be interested in is the experience of on-line support itself - as Tamar said, why we come here and what we get from it. I think the exact issues are more or less background, it is more about why we come here to talk about them. Maybe we are all saying the same thing.
>
> I'm thinking about the letter I wrote a long time ago trying to explain Babble to Fallsfall's therapist -- it was about support between sessions. And I think there should be some acknowledgement that there has been disagreement as to whether discussing things here interferes with an individual's therapy. If I was attending, I think this is what I would want to convey.daisym
__________________________________________________________________________
> I don’t want to go into a lot of detail about my personal history, but the broad issues are things I think could be discussed in the session, if people want to. And the handout could perhaps provide a bit more depth.
>
> I think the issue of support between sessions is a really important one, and something that could generate some interesting discussions!
>
> Tamar
________________________________________________________________________
> > I guess one question I'd be interested in is who is the target audience? Are these pyschopharmacologists or people who do therapy? Or people who do mainly prescribing, but are interested in other aspects of psychiatric self help.
>
> It's hard to know who's going to show up. Sorry about all the unknowns!
>
> > Are you presenting Babble as mainly the medication board? Or more as the support community? Is the emphasis on Babble as a community where supportive relationships can be built? Or on Babble as a source of information?
>
> I think it's both, so I'll try to present it that way. But FYI, I usually Google Effexor to demonstrate how people find Babble. Maybe I should post something at the main board so posters there can get involved, too?
>
> Bob
__________________________________________________________________________
The interest could lie in questions about the accuracy of information on Babble, the implications of early side-effect information (we all knew many of the side effects the doctors and drug companies are only now admitting), and how much trouble Babble is likely to cause them in encouraging us to try to be our own doctors as opposed or challenge their opinions.
>
> Or the interest could be in how Babble contributes or detracts from the therapeutic relationship. Fears about being negatively judged by posters. Or interest in how we encourage each other to be open and disclose things to our therapist that we might be otherwise unwilling to disclose.
>
> Or the interest could be more along the nature of how well the internet can serve as a source of peer support. What problems could crop up by participating.
>
> Or the interest could lie somewhere I can't even imagine.
>
> Individual poster/presenters may vary widely in their knowledge of and interest in these and other various topics. And I see some potential for embarassment or awkwardness.
>
> Maybe if we were more familiar with the contents of your presentation, we'd be more able to feel comfortable with our ability to be assets to the presentation?Dinah
___________________________________________________________________________
...the main idea is for you all to have an opportunity to say what's important to *you*, for example:
>
> > Things we’ve learned here
> > Discussions or threads that were significant to us
> > What kinds of things we come to Babble for
> > Things we find useful about Babble
> > Things we find frustrating about Babble
>
> I guess there might be questions along other lines, but if it's something you don't feel willing or able to address, I think it would be fine just to suggest that they ask in another small group or after we all regroup together.
>
> Bob
___________________________________________________________________________
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:35:54
In reply to Summary of info about Toronto APA meeting, posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:23:53
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:49:33
In reply to Sorry if I left anyone out above (nm), posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 14:35:54
Posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 15:04:48
In reply to Re: what is expected, posted by Poet on November 25, 2005, at 8:32:01
>I won't do my own handouts, just notes for myself in case I get so nervous that I can't remember my own name.
I'm afraid of the same thing! I haven't presented anything in front of a group of people since high school. I was always extremely nervous while presenting.
I'm seriously thinking of the worst right now. What if I panic and hyperventilate and faint and hit my head and forget who I am and don't know how to get home and get lost in Toronto? LOL Or, what if I run away and hide in a corner somewhere? OMG that would be soooo embarrassing. What would people think?
What should I wear? Professional attire? I don't have professional attire.
OMG, what will people think? What will people think if I start to freak out? "Hey, come look at the girl who's freaking out! I wonder what her problem is? Wow, she's really making a fool of herself!" Aaaahhhh!
Deneb
Posted by fallsfall on December 7, 2005, at 20:42:48
In reply to Anxiety about meeting, posted by Deneb on December 7, 2005, at 15:04:48
I figure that I'll just show up.
I am going to let Dr. Bob do the "presenting". I'm just going to talk about how Babble works in my life and to answer questions if I can. And if I can't answer the questions I'll say "Gee, I don't know". And then they'll ask a different question. I don't know what I'll wear. Maybe something nice, but not a linen suit or anything. Maybe I'll wear my jeans. I don't think that will matter much. I talk about Babble a lot with many people who I know. So I'm pretty used to talking about Babble. This time it will just be with people who I don't know (and who I'll never see again ever in my life, and who won't know my real name).
I guess I'll have a way to introduce myself to the small group (how long I've been on Babble, how I found it, how long I've been in therapy, what role Babble fills in my life).
Deneb, you would be in good hands if you hyperventilate and hit your head. There will be lots of doctors there. 8^)
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Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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