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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Poet on October 9, 2004, at 16:08:57
In reply to Re: I quit therapy- Feeling Very Sad (Long) » Poet, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2004, at 14:49:38
Hi Fallsfall,
I think you're right, emotionally illiterate fits me, not emotionally challenged. In therapy I always had trouble describing how I feel emotionally. It makes sense that I couldn't describe what I didn't understand.
I can't get the book right now, but when I can, I will try your emotional confetti.
I'm stuggling with shame about calling my therapist. I know that there is no reason to think it's shameful, but shame is one emotion that my entire family gave me life long lessons in. Along with anger of course. I think they go together.
I have to keep saying that it's okay to call her next week and I know she'll welcome me back, maybe if I repeat it enough times it'll sink in.
I hope I get a job soon, I've had three interviews in the last week and have one on the 12th & another on the 18th. Both pdoc and my therapist agree that a job could do more for me than meds or therapy. Not that I don't need meds or therapy.
Thanks so much for caring about me. I will try to stay (whisper quitely safe) and will probably post a lot in the next few days because this is a place where I can get the help I need. From experts.
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2004, at 16:41:49
In reply to Emotional confetti » fallsfall, posted by Poet on October 9, 2004, at 16:08:57
[I seem to have diarrhea of the fingers today. Please feel free to ignore this post if you want...]
Look for the Skill Training manual at your library (or a nearby University library)...
>I'm stuggling with shame about calling my therapist.
OK. So what is "shame"? (This is an honest question from me)
Is shame something that *we* feel, or something that *others* feel? When you say that you are struggling with shame, do you mean that *you* think you did a bad thing, or that you think that *your therapist* will think that you did a bad thing?
Your therapist already said that she would welcome you back. Do you think that she will *also* think you did a bad thing?
Or why would *you* think you have done a bad thing if she has already said that you didn't? Do the two of you interpret the same act differently (you think it was a bad thing, she doesn't)? Is there an absolute "good" or "bad" that can be attached to each act? Or is it possible for you both to have different opinions and have both of you be right (even though you disagree)?
[This is an old issue for me, I have a strong believe in a global right/wrong system. Where everything is intrisically good or bad, and if two people disagree about whether it is good or bad, then one of them is wrong. I think that people have tried to convince me that this isn't particularly accurate (i.e. are Republicans good or bad? Reasonable people can disagree. I would tend to believe one way, and think that the disagreers are uninformed.)]
I honestly am confused by this. This is one of the kinds of things where people look at me like I have 3 heads... You can pat me on the head(s) and tell me to go away if you want to, I won't take offense...
Posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2004, at 19:32:30
In reply to Re: I quit therapy- Feeling Very Sad (Long) » crushedout, posted by Poet on October 9, 2004, at 15:35:54
> It seems that so many of us think that our therapists would be overjoyed to get rid of us. Mine made it clear she wasn't, but I quit anyway.
Dear Poet, I'm sorry you were feeling this way in therapy. Your statement above made me think back to my own clients. I can't really think of anyone I was wishing I could get rid of. That doesn't mean that I didn't have some challenges, but I just had to put in more effort, especially if therapy seemed to be getting stagnant. I hope that you will be able to talk to her about this feeling you expressed here more in depth in the future. I think that the discrepancy between your feeling (which is valid, btw...you feel and worry what you do, regardless of how others' feel)...and hers is important to discuss.
>
> I had thought about quitting for a week- it wasn't a snap decision. What I didn't take into consideration was how I would feel without therapy. My (former?) T asked if I had thought about it and I said no. Now I realize I should have.You know what? The ability to re-evaluate this in light of new information...i.e. how you feel now, is a very healthy and adaptive skill. Without it you would be truly stuck. There's no shame in re-thinking a decision. There's no shame! I know it feels that way. And that makes any effort to go back a truly difficult prospect, I'm sure. But I hope you can move forward despite the fear of shame and contact your T. It's not moving backwards, it's forwards. By re-thinking this, you are still working hard on trying to do what's best for you.
>
> I should call her, but like you, pride gets in the way.Can you email her? Write he a letter? Have someone else call? Or call when you know you will get the answering machine? All these might be easier.
I'm thinking of you. (((((Poet))))
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 11:26:11
In reply to Re: I quit therapy- Feeling Very Sad (Long) » Poet, posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2004, at 19:32:30
Posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 12:23:55
In reply to Re: Emotional confetti » Poet, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2004, at 16:41:49
I would never pat you on the head(s) and tell you to go away. I wasn't ignoring your post.
I will try the library for the Skill Training manual. The public libraries are all linked together, so I would think that one of them might have it. A university library is a possibility, too.
I think that shame can be felt and dealt. For me, the shame about quitting therapy and then going back is of my own creation. My therapist didn't shame me, I shamed me.
I am projecting onto her my feeling that it's a bad thing. We interpret the same act differently. She would probably by trying hard to convince me that I didn't do a bad thing as hard as I would be trying to convince her that I did.
Is something good or bad is up to the individual. It's okay to disagree, but I can see your point about that those who disagree are uninformed. The only way I'll get more informed or she will is if I call her and I still can't get myself to do it.
Poet
I hope this made sense.
Posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 15:28:54
In reply to Poet, how are you doing? (nm), posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 11:26:11
Hi GG,
I'm still low. Too ashamed to call her. I know that the only one who feels that calling her is shameful is me. I am an expert in self shame and blame.
I don't know of anyone who would call her for me. My husband won't. He got me the name of a therapist that I *might like.* I liked my last therapist. I quit therapy because I can't do therapy, it wasn't because of anything she said or did. I can do therapy with pdoc, it isn't my therapist, it's that I can only trust so far and say so much. I would be stuck with anyone as the problem is with me.
I'm trying to get up the courage to call her when I think she's not there, though she would call me back and that would be awkward, too. I have her email address, but I don't know if she shares it with a business partner. But her partner is a therapist, too, it's not like she wouldn't get that it's private.
Thanks for caring. I really need my babble friends now. I wish I had babbled before I quit.I wish I wish I wish. I had the sense to realize that re-evaluating a decision is not shameful.
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on October 11, 2004, at 16:47:35
In reply to Re: Emotional confetti » fallsfall, posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 12:23:55
Poet,
Can you see this as a "therapeutic opportunity"? That here you have a situation where you see shame, but the other person (your therapist) doesn't - that this is an opportunity for you to take a chance and see what happens when you admit your shame? That this might be a place where you can take the chance to try it the first time - a place where you can feel like even if it doesn't work out well, at least your therapist won't tell the world about it. I'm guessing that it *will* work out well, but I know that I need to be able to see that my losses will be limited if I am going to have the courage to try something new.
Changing therapists doesn't seem like the solution to me. It was nice of your hubby to try to help, even though he doesn't really understand the problem.
Be good to yourself.
Posted by Annierose on October 11, 2004, at 19:03:03
In reply to Re: Emotional confetti » fallsfall, posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 12:23:55
Poet - I can almost feel your pain when reading your posts. I wish you could/would call her and leave a message. She would be thrilled to hear from you, I am certain. I agree w/Fallsfall, the theraputic relationship is a SAFE PLACE to feel everything, even if it is uncomfortable. That is part of the growing, and it is so darn HARD and PAINFUL, but it is safe. I hope you will take a chance. You can do this! You are strong and courageous!
Posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 19:10:47
In reply to Re: Poet, how are you doing? » gardenergirl, posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 15:28:54
>I had the sense to realize that re-evaluating a decision is not shameful.
Poet,
I hope I didn't come on too strong in my post before. I just know from my own experiene how powerful shame is. And I wanted to give you some kudos.Warmly,
gg
Posted by just plain jane on October 12, 2004, at 1:59:06
In reply to Re: Poet, how are you doing? » Poet, posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 19:10:47
Shame, for me, plays back the belittling harangue of parents and parrotting children,
"Shame on you! You are BAD!!"
"You have shamed us!" (because you are/did bad)
"Such shameful behavior"
"It is such a shame that _____ "Shame and bad were synonymous terms in my growing up. They are still, in most cases.
I had to be ashamed of myself because I:
- was foolish enough to speak up. How could I possibly even have a thought?
- had made a "mess"
- had looked crosseyed at the wrong time
- wet my pants/bed
- sucked my thumb
- made an appearance while there was company
- was soo UGLY
- didn't know what my 3 (older) siblings knew (what!!! by osmosis?????)
- stammered occasionally
- dared try to sing in harmony with my 3 siblings (I could)
- made an attempt at humor
- made my mother unhappy by my mere existence
- forgot (something - anything)
- got less than A+ on anything
- didn't want to eat something
- was scared to... anything
- et cetera until we are all blue in the face.
I WAS A BAD GIRL!!!! I SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!
Truth be found out later (from other family and friends) I was NOT a bad girl, not even NEAR a bad girl.But I still know shame.
I still fight against that drowning pull of shame, of being bad.It still hurts, even though it is a memory, a ghost.
Shame is a manipulative tool to beat someone('s self) to an emotional pulp. It is a voracious disease which could eat you alive, leaving in its wake a shell of fear and self hatred.
SHAME is BAD.
jane
Posted by Dinah on October 12, 2004, at 7:30:45
In reply to Re: Poet, how are you doing? » gardenergirl, posted by Poet on October 11, 2004, at 15:28:54
It seems like this is one of those moments where there's a chance to take a relationship to a new level.
When she takes you back warmly, it's a trust building opportunity.
When you contact her and ask, it's a trust building opportunity.
What you did wasn't shameful. Or if it was, I've been shamed at least half dozen times. I think it's a reasonably normal part of therapy. And therapists know that. Didn't she reply as if she knew that?
But even though it wasn't shameful, it's in the past. It is now part of your history. You have an opportunity now to write your future history. You can choose whether you do something you'll later be proud of. Calling her would take a lot of courage, and that would be something to be very very proud of. There's no need to have an awkward phone conversation. Just call her and leave a message when you know she's unlikely to be able to answer. Something like
"Hey. It's me, Poet. I'd really like to talk about what happened. Can we make an appointment to do that?"
I'd be proud of you, not only for showing the courage to go after what you want, but also for taking the leap of faith it requires to deepen a relationship. Don't you think that's something to be proud of?
You can always talk about the rest of it when you get there.
Posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:21:45
In reply to Re: Emotional confetti » Poet, posted by fallsfall on October 11, 2004, at 16:47:35
I'm trying to see it as a therapeutic opportunity, but my distorted mental vision won't put on glasses so it's clear.
Changing therapists is definitely not the solution. Going back to my therapist is, I just can't make that phone call or write something, I just freeze up. Just like I do in therapy when I can't talk about something, darn it.
Poet
Posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:25:59
In reply to Re: Emotional confetti, posted by Annierose on October 11, 2004, at 19:03:03
Hi Annie,
Growing is hard and painful. I just thought that my growth was stunted and therapy just wasn't for me.
I hope I can get up the courage to call. I know I've got everybody here to catch me if I fall.
Poet
Posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:28:23
In reply to Re: Poet, how are you doing? » Poet, posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 19:10:47
Hi GG,
You weren't being harsh, you were being honest. I got myself into this mental mess and it's up to me to try to find the courage to get out of it. Making a phone call or writing something should be so easy, but I feel like a teenager who has a crush and hangs up when the boy answers.
Poet
Posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:33:33
In reply to shame, posted by just plain jane on October 12, 2004, at 1:59:06
Jane,
<<I still fight against that drowning pull of shame, of being bad.
<<It still hurts, even though it is a memory, a ghost.
<<Shame is a manipulative tool to beat someone('s self) to an emotional pulp. It is a voracious disease which could eat you alive, leaving in its wake a shell of fear and self hatred.
<SHAME is BAD.
I wish you didn't understand shame so well. Everything you said is true and your childhood sounds very much like mine.
Shame and blame, they did it to me and then I took over and started doing it to myself. A bad habit and one that I have yet to break.
WE ARE NOT BAD!!! NOT, NOT, NOT!
Poet
Posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:40:50
In reply to Poet?, posted by Dinah on October 12, 2004, at 7:30:45
It is a trust building opportunity. I only trust her 50 percent, but that's more than I trust anyone else. She would take me back warmly. It's just me that's cold with fear, shame, failure and all the other ridiculous feelings that I have built walls out of to keep her out.
I'm trying to convince myself to call her. The only time I know she wouldn't answer the phone is Thursday at 10. She has a staff meeting then, I know because she'd change my time to accomodate it. But Thursday is a long way off and I am still periodically bursting into tears, so I may have to dig deep for the courage sooner.
Keep up the pep talk! I need all the encouragement I can get.
Poet
Posted by crushedout on October 12, 2004, at 13:45:48
In reply to Dinah, posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:40:50
Poet,I think Dinah's words are true, incredible and inspiring. I hope you will listen to her. I think she knows what she's talking about.
Wishing you tons of courage and strength.
crushed
Posted by Annierose on October 12, 2004, at 14:22:06
In reply to Re: Dinah, posted by crushedout on October 12, 2004, at 13:45:48
Poet - Call your T very early in the morning -
before she would get to work. Then you can expect her warm reply before lunchtime!
Posted by Dinah on October 12, 2004, at 16:18:49
In reply to Dinah, posted by Poet on October 12, 2004, at 12:40:50
Posted by shrinking violet on October 12, 2004, at 17:21:55
In reply to I know that you can do it, even though it's hard (nm) » Poet, posted by Dinah on October 12, 2004, at 16:18:49
((((Poet))))
Please try to call your T, or email her, or leave a voicemail. You obviously want to go back; do you really want another week to go by without having called her, and possibly have seen her? Your decision is obviously hurting you, which should give you an indication that connecting with her again is the right thing, even if it's just to process your decision.
I can understand shame, fear, self-loathing. But for a minute, try to hush up your mind and focus on what I'm going to say to you now:
First, I want you to pick up the phone, or open your email program (whichever way you decide to contact her).
Then, I want to you to read this as many times as you need to until you have either called or sent a message:It's okay to feel like I made a mistake.
It's okay to take actions to fix that mistake.
It's okay to reach out to someone who I feel may be able to help me.
It's okay to help me.
Good luck, hon. :-)
Posted by antigua on October 12, 2004, at 17:35:47
In reply to Re: Courage, posted by Annierose on October 12, 2004, at 14:22:06
I'll probably get a lot of grief for this, but if you really can't make the call, ask someone to make it for you. Sometimes I ask my husband to call and my T understands what that means. Asking for help is courageous (I know this because my T told me this last week when I did the same thing and was afraid to make the call).
Go for it Poet.
antigua
Posted by shrinking violet on October 14, 2004, at 14:22:54
In reply to Re: I quit therapy- Feeling Very Sad (Long) » antigua, posted by Poet on October 8, 2004, at 17:12:59
Posted by Poet on October 15, 2004, at 18:07:25
In reply to ((((Poet))))) how are you? any update? (nm), posted by shrinking violet on October 14, 2004, at 14:22:54
Posted by Dinah on October 15, 2004, at 18:09:55
In reply to Left T message to call me- update when she does (nm), posted by Poet on October 15, 2004, at 18:07:25
Posted by Annierose on October 15, 2004, at 19:32:45
In reply to Left T message to call me- update when she does (nm), posted by Poet on October 15, 2004, at 18:07:25
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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