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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:38:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by raindancer on October 30, 2003, at 15:28:01
Hi,
You are experiencing transference which is a natural phenonamia in psychotherapy. You are experiencing the blissfull childhood bond you should have been allowed to feel with your mother, or father or sibling, This is feeling that you have always had, but because you could not connect and get that blissful love back from your mother, or father or sibling or who-ever, you are now seeking to repair that in therapy.
A child has such a full and beautiful love, when it is recieved and held, he is able to trust in the world. When he is rejected or ignored he develops fear of trust in his people.
Let your younger self feel thatlove to the fullest extent, because you deserve to have that returned and create healing in your life. Don't worry your therapist will not act out with you, it is not really about romantic love, although even kids want to marry their mommy at some point! don't worry this is a much younger and more important love. It is the love that you need to internalize in order to trust as you live the rest of your life.All human being needs to go through that developmental phase. Trust me.
Posted by naiad on November 19, 2003, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » raindancer, posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:38:06
April,
Thank you for your wonderful explanantion of transference. I have read Deborah Lott's book (In Session) which was helpful but you really clarified how one could benefit from these strong and baffling feelings.
I fell in love with my therapist relatively soon after beginning to work with him but I was afraid to talk to him about it for quite awhile. Finally,with much fear and trembling, I told him and lo and behold he was understanding and none of my fears (that he would tell me to "go away" or that he would want to begin an affair with me) occurred. The funnny thing is that once I realized that an affair was really not going to happen, I was quite sad. I felt grief over loss of my fantasy. Even though the feelings have quieted to a degree, they are still "in the therapy room."
My question is: how will transference benefit me? I certainly relate to your idea that it is the love I didn't get as a child. Is there anything else that might be helpful? Thanks again.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:57:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by naiad on November 19, 2003, at 23:11:36
>
> My question is: how will transference benefit me? I certainly relate to your idea that it is the love I didn't get as a child. Is there anything else that might be helpful? Thanks again.
>
Now I'm not at all sure of the answer to this question. I think experiencing transferences is completely natural. I think discussing them with your therapist is helpful, given that they exist. But I've long had my doubts that experiencing the sort of painful erotic transferences many of you describe is actually helpful.I do understand that experiencing the maternal transference I feel is helpful as it helps my therapist's stated goal of providing a corrective emotional experience and (sort of) reparenting. I understand how it's helpful to me because it makes me feel more confident to go out in the world, knowing that my therapist is there to help me if the world is too overwhelming. Sort of that stage of child development where the child explores but looks back to make sure mommy's there and checks out her expression to make sure the world's ok.
But some of these erotic transferences sound just painful. Given that sharing anything with our therapists is helpful, is there any other way an erotic transference contributes to therapy?
Transference experts anyone?
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:57:06
I think strong erotic transferences, while very painful, are often part of a good therapy experience. You do learn to trust more by speaking of it, you can have the experience of becoming more in touch with your own sexuality- and the power of it- you do also get your heart kind of broken, but you can eventually leave being able to love someone else more deeply. At least, I hope so!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 22:12:53
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
I guess I'm not very sexual, so it just seems so very much pain for not a lot of gain. But I'm probably the last to be able to judge.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 22:12:53
I have a hard time believing that, Dinah - I really think we all are. But what seems to be most important to you right now is primarily pre-sexual. It's such a strong indication of what a bad job your own mother did in providing you with security and that vital "sparkle in the eye" to let you know you really mattered, and that you were safe with her. One of these days, as we go along here, I wouldn't be surprised to be reading that Dinah suddenly found herself with a sexual transference- she'll be completely bowled over, and wonder where on earth it came from after all those years! Promise not to keep it a secret if it happens?
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
Chuckle. Well I'll be surprised!!! And so will my therapist I'll bet! Could I at least have it with someone else? (Euw, Euwwwww, Euewwwwwww!)
Posted by joslynn on November 21, 2003, at 9:58:28
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
I think there is some good to it...it has made me look at a wider variety of men I may not have noticed before, because my pdcoc is not the physical type I would have noticed before. My thinking now is, hey, maybe that average-looking man in his 40s could be just as nice as my pdoc, I should give him a chance. I never would have given my pdoc a chance romantically, if he was just a random single guy. And of course it will never be a romantic relationship, but the feelings were romantic, and sometimes still are. So, under that unassuming package was this nice, smart person who cares about me, maybe other unassuming packages have the same good stuff inside.
(Not that I was only attracted to GQ models, but I had this thick-haired, traditionally handsome type that always caught my eye, or a sensistive-ponytail-man type. Having a little crush on my pdoc has expanded my "type" beyond that.)
Posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
Pfinstegg,
That was very profound. Thanks. I know I should share my experiences, but I'm downright embarrassed. I mean, MAYBE I could manage saying that I feel like I'm in love with him, but to tell him I've had sexual fantasies about him??? Gosh, I just can't imagine doing that to anyone, let alone the man I look up to the most. But I sure wish I could. I should. I'll have to give it some thought.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:09:10
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
I have been telling him- it's an initially terrifying experience- you leave thinking that you can't believe what you just said! But he keeps pointing out that a vital part of therapy is allowing him to know what all my wishes and desires are. Somehow, it becomes something very profound and meaningful to do. It has nothing to do with actually having anything happen. In fact, the main point seems for me to know myself better, and trust him more with all parts of me. I have never regretted saying even the most intimate, private things to him- I think it's the things one doesn't know about, or can't say, which seem to cause those painful feelings of loneliness and shame. You could try it slowly, and see whether you have the same good experience that I've had. I think this is the area where the therapists really show their skill!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
All things are possible, Dinah! You get to choose whether, when and who!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist -Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
At the risk of giving too much information, I have a sexual aversion problem so severe that my therapist finds it hard to believe that I wasn't sexually abused as a kid. It fits in with so much of my pathology. He never digs or anything, or tries to get me to come up with something, but he does ask me from time to time if I'm telling him everything. I am.
But I find the idea of a sexualized transference highly unlikely. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
I didn't mean to be flippant at all, Dinah, but I'm afraid I was. Because of your posts over time, I kind of knew that you did have an unexplained aversion- you're not alone in this at all, and I don't think it is necessarily caused by outright abuse (although it could be)- I think just an absence of good parenting, especially by a father, can do it. I guess I was just thinking and hoping that when you got more of the very early stuff worked out, as you are doing, that this would be the next big thing to deal with. I still do think that it will likely come up, but only when you are ready. Just allowing it to come up as an aversion is a very courageous step. Someone recently here quoted her therapist as saying something like, " if the part of you which can't talk, could, what would she say?" I think this is a wonderful question- it pushes us a bit into our unconscious memories, without being too intrusive- we won't be able to answer until we are ready, but I think questions like this help us get ready.. My analyst uses questions like that a lot; maybe the first 20 times I draw a blank, but then suddenly, an answer appears- not a memory of an event, so much as forgotten feelings- buried wishes and fears. It is initially so frightening that I have run out of his office and sat in the dark in his bathroom to try to calm down! But we keep at it, and it is getting better- less fear each week, and a sort of claiming of my own feelings- including all the ones towards him (not just sexual desire, but also childlike love and longing, rage and hate. Today I found mself saying, "I can actually tell you any feelings and desires I have!" He said, "yes, you can- that is one of the things I am here for". This has only REALLY dawned on me after eight months of therapy- I was trying to be open and candid before, just not TOO much so. Now, well...
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 21:29:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
Oh no, you weren't being too flippant at all. It was just on my mind because it was the topic of conversation at therapy today and I'm rather doubtful that I'll ever get past it enought to have an erotic reaction to anyone who isn't on screen or in books. :)
I think with the holidays coming up, I was trying to keep the conversation at something safe. Oddly enough, sex isn't a topic which is likely to distress me.
Posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by karen_kay on October 27, 2003, at 14:39:12
I've been having an affair with my therapist. For five years I sounded and felt the same way all of you have. Now Im totally confused, even more hurt, and having difficulty seperating our romance from our therapy. It started off with my obsession with him. I couldnt give myself to anyone else, unless it was meaningless sex, and even then I fantasized about him, because HE had my heart. I was very open not only about how I felt about him (in love, jealous of his wife and two small children, obsessesed, possessive, not liking the fact that he had other clients, wanting all of his time.....)but also in sharing in EXPLICIT details what I wanted to do to him sexually (first mistake.) I began sharing these fantasies with him on a regular basis. I felt we, I, needed to get it out of my system because nothing would ever happened. I did notice that at these times his body was sexually responsive to what I was saying as well as to me. He would occasionally tell me that he "loved" me (I was in-love" with him), and began giving me a significantly more amount of time in the office as well as an occassional home visit when I'd call him in bad shape. It started off with hugs before I left the office, then led to sitting and holding me while I was upset. The holding slowly became more sexual then one day in the office IT just happened. I couldnt believe it. He struggled after the first time with the thought that he had cheated on his wife, crossed the ultimate boundary (one of his major rules), and his fear of hurting me and our theraputic relationship. Needless to say, although it still affects him, our sexual escapades have continued, (inconsistantly, as he tries to remain in control.) I hated knowing that he had to leave me to go home to his wife. I secretely wished for him to leave her and start a life with me. I know that will never happen, but everytime he gives in to me I grasp onto that hope again. Sometimes I hate him for giving me the most wonderful gift- Genuine LOVE. As a sexual abuse victim I went from not being able to have sex to having sex promiscuously. He showed me what making love is, how to withstand holding after sex without crawling out of my skin, feeling worth it.... I think it was theraputic in many ways but it has made the hurt even worse. Am I going to be with him today or not?, will hc call or come over tonight or not?, does he still feel the same way towards me?, did I ruin his marraige or make him run to her out of guilt?. The rejection is killing me slowly. I know he truly loves his wife and kids. At one point I told him I was ending therapy and that I had to cut him out of my life. I caved and came back. I would rather live with him in my life rather than without him at all, even if it hurts like hell. We are trying to balance things. Its very difficult. I have to face alot of painful realizations.... he IS married, he will Never leave her for me, we could Never be friends and hang out, I am his Patient..... I cry alot. I feel like I have this big hole in my stomach all the time. He fills it when I am with him but as soon as he's gone I hurt again (or even if he's there but not responding to my advances or I feel rejected). I dont know I could say that if I had the chance to do it over again that I would do anything differently. Its always did hurt to love him, so I take what I can get. Those of you who are in love with your therapists, do not ignore your feelings. It is important to PROCESS them with your therapist, it is natural, but as much as you want it, trust me, NEVER EVER allow yourself or your therapist to cross any lines. You'll only want and hurt more. Accept them for who they are supposed to be in your life- a helper, confidant. Anything else WILL destroy you and your theraputic relationship! Also, take a look at what it is you really want from them and how authentic it is. As real as your love may seem, you may just be trying to get a childhood need met, find acceptance, attention.... look at your motives. Do you always go after people you can't have? Is this a pattern for you? One thing I've learned, everything I have received from my therapist are things that I could apply to other people in my life in a healthy way, something I could not even conceive of years ago. Oh, one more thing, fantasies are ALWAYS better than the real thing, and noone can take that from you!;)
Posted by pinkeye on July 13, 2004, at 20:03:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I am very sad to hear this. I think it is very wrong of him to do what he is doing. Atleast stop seeing him for therapy and instead find somebody else to help you through your recovery.
> I've been having an affair with my therapist. For five years I sounded and felt the same way all of you have. Now Im totally confused, even more hurt, and having difficulty seperating our romance from our therapy. It started off with my obsession with him. I couldnt give myself to anyone else, unless it was meaningless sex, and even then I fantasized about him, because HE had my heart. I was very open not only about how I felt about him (in love, jealous of his wife and two small children, obsessesed, possessive, not liking the fact that he had other clients, wanting all of his time.....)but also in sharing in EXPLICIT details what I wanted to do to him sexually (first mistake.) I began sharing these fantasies with him on a regular basis. I felt we, I, needed to get it out of my system because nothing would ever happened. I did notice that at these times his body was sexually responsive to what I was saying as well as to me. He would occasionally tell me that he "loved" me (I was in-love" with him), and began giving me a significantly more amount of time in the office as well as an occassional home visit when I'd call him in bad shape. It started off with hugs before I left the office, then led to sitting and holding me while I was upset. The holding slowly became more sexual then one day in the office IT just happened. I couldnt believe it. He struggled after the first time with the thought that he had cheated on his wife, crossed the ultimate boundary (one of his major rules), and his fear of hurting me and our theraputic relationship. Needless to say, although it still affects him, our sexual escapades have continued, (inconsistantly, as he tries to remain in control.) I hated knowing that he had to leave me to go home to his wife. I secretely wished for him to leave her and start a life with me. I know that will never happen, but everytime he gives in to me I grasp onto that hope again. Sometimes I hate him for giving me the most wonderful gift- Genuine LOVE. As a sexual abuse victim I went from not being able to have sex to having sex promiscuously. He showed me what making love is, how to withstand holding after sex without crawling out of my skin, feeling worth it.... I think it was theraputic in many ways but it has made the hurt even worse. Am I going to be with him today or not?, will hc call or come over tonight or not?, does he still feel the same way towards me?, did I ruin his marraige or make him run to her out of guilt?. The rejection is killing me slowly. I know he truly loves his wife and kids. At one point I told him I was ending therapy and that I had to cut him out of my life. I caved and came back. I would rather live with him in my life rather than without him at all, even if it hurts like hell. We are trying to balance things. Its very difficult. I have to face alot of painful realizations.... he IS married, he will Never leave her for me, we could Never be friends and hang out, I am his Patient..... I cry alot. I feel like I have this big hole in my stomach all the time. He fills it when I am with him but as soon as he's gone I hurt again (or even if he's there but not responding to my advances or I feel rejected). I dont know I could say that if I had the chance to do it over again that I would do anything differently. Its always did hurt to love him, so I take what I can get. Those of you who are in love with your therapists, do not ignore your feelings. It is important to PROCESS them with your therapist, it is natural, but as much as you want it, trust me, NEVER EVER allow yourself or your therapist to cross any lines. You'll only want and hurt more. Accept them for who they are supposed to be in your life- a helper, confidant. Anything else WILL destroy you and your theraputic relationship! Also, take a look at what it is you really want from them and how authentic it is. As real as your love may seem, you may just be trying to get a childhood need met, find acceptance, attention.... look at your motives. Do you always go after people you can't have? Is this a pattern for you? One thing I've learned, everything I have received from my therapist are things that I could apply to other people in my life in a healthy way, something I could not even conceive of years ago. Oh, one more thing, fantasies are ALWAYS better than the real thing, and noone can take that from you!;)
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2004, at 20:08:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I am so sorry this happened to you. A therapist should *never* do this to a patient entrusted to his care. It's inexcusable.
Posted by Deafmom on July 14, 2004, at 7:43:19
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Jadah, posted by Dinah on July 13, 2004, at 20:08:20
I wanted to thank you for being so open and honest about your feelings. I'm one who struggles with those feelings and it really did help to learn how one case scenerio turned out. I'm sorry that happened to you and I do appreciate your candor. It's hard to say, "Well, then I won't think abou tit," but at least your post is something I can come back to when I need it. Take care of yourself and please keep us posted as to how you are doing in recovery. :o)
Posted by gardenergirl on July 14, 2004, at 8:17:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I just wanted to echo what others' said that this boundary violation is his doing, and should never have happened to you. Please consider finding a new therapist. This will allow you to again experience someone who's primary concern is you and your mental health.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 11:58:27
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
I just wanted to add my voice to the others', and say I'm so sorry this happened to you. Even though there may have been an intermixture of a few positive things, these are things you achieved yourself through talking and sharing your feelings with him, and could have brought to a relationship of your own. You came to him for therapy; it's natural to have sexual desires for your therapist, and you were doing your part in being open and honest about them. He committed the most serious boundary violation there is.
I think we all appreciated your courage and candor in describing so clearly what happened. It had a powerful effect on me; I mentioned it to my analyst today. He said that there is a Boston-based organzation called TELL (Therapy Exploitation Link Line), which provides support for psychotherapy patients who have been sexually exploited by their therapists. He spoke highly of it, and I have complete trust in his judgement. You can contact them at [email protected]. It is volunteer-run, and their web site indicated tht you might not get an immediate response, but that you will definitely get one. They are prepared to provide a lot of support to help you out of this situation.
Posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 11:58:27
Pfinstegg, thank you for sharing this. But I am so saddened that this happens often enough that such an organization is necessary.
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 16:44:52
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
me too, Dinah. I was shocked that there was one.
Posted by Deafmom on July 15, 2004, at 18:31:09
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2004, at 16:38:57
I really do feel bad that this was so painful, but I must be honest in saying that I still wish for it. Not that it would ever happen, but I'm just being honest. :o)
Posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on October 10, 2003, at 7:10:36
I am soooo confused. My therapist is trying to keep things the way they were but we still have "unexpected" sex sometimes. It scares me because in the beginning he said that this couldnt go on because he would go insane from cheating on his wife. I want him so bad that I dont say 'NO", but each time we are together sexually I fear hes going to be the one to abandon me and say "I cant see you anymore". I would literally die without him. Its so hard to see him professionally and not want to be with him. Thank you for your resoponses. I was hoping to hear from you. I wanted to let you all know that it is one thing to have feelings but its another thing to act on them. I am just as responsible as he is. I led him on for years, slowly realling him in like a fish, preying of his weaknesses. His profession is one thing, but he is still a human with human emotions. Im not saying it is right what we have been doing, on the contarary, but it has taught me some valuable life lessons. I just want you all to know that your fantasies are real, normal, justifiable- hang onto them, but remember, your therapist is human, they are not a therapist 24-7. The more I got to know my therapist on a personal level the more I saw his mood swings, personal points of view, flaws. It was a major blow because I thought he was "perfect" . Sometimes I wish all I had were my fantasies, they were so much better when I was in control of things. I really believe that I was in love with the IDEA of him, which is not realistic in real life. I do understand where all of you are at in your feelings, I was once there too. Very confused and scared now, even though I do cherish those moments we share together.How much longer though before this all ends and I feel the ultimate hurt and betrayal???
Posted by Pfinstegg on July 15, 2004, at 19:43:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 15, 2004, at 19:07:32
According to what I read on the TELL site, patients almost always feel that they are responsible for sexual boundary crossings, whereas, in both legal and psychiatric terms, it is NEVER considered the patient's fault. It is the therapist's responsibility to make sure that it does not happen, no matter what desires and longings are talked about.
You are caught right in the middle of this intense experience, with longings to keep it going, extreme fears that it will end, and, I think you said, an awareness that it is preventing you from developing a relationship outside of therapy which would be truly yours. It sounds like you do really know that only pain, insecurity and eventual loss await you: you may eventually look back on these years of involvement with your therapist as lost years for you as a person. I can understand how extremely difficult it would be, but perhaps you would eventually be glad if you took a step back from it emotionally, and sought other sources of support. I do hope that you will consider that - I think it's a very courageous step to have posted about it here.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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