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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Newcomer on September 4, 2003, at 9:16:51
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by kara lynne on September 3, 2003, at 18:18:04
Hi Kara,
Please don’t think you’re dissuading me, I want to weigh up the options before doing it and would hate to give up a week of my life and pay all that money for something that isn’t right. So it’s good to have your insight. I was very tempted to do the process (and yes, all those radiant people talking about how it turned their lives around is persuasive) but bearing in mind how I used to struggle so much in one hour of therapy a week, it sounds too intense. Despite that I like the idea of the intensive nature in that you’re forced to deal with your life in one big go and there’s no getting away. Plus, the emotional release would be helpful, it could really give you a kick-start to go on to longer term improvements. But in practice I probably need something gentler.
They put a lot of emphasis on how you get energy from the group and are supported throughout, but I can see that your experience was a little different. I wouldn’t want to do it unless there was a supportive and understanding approach, whereas it sounds like it could get heavy handed. Perhaps I need to have a better go with therapy before considering it. I just feel this strong pull towards it (not sure why) but I have to remind myself to be realistic about what I’m capable of.
Best wishes
Posted by kara lynne on September 4, 2003, at 11:05:47
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Newcomer on September 4, 2003, at 9:16:51
I do think you get energy from the group; that's the whole dynamic. And I do think you are supported throughout. That's part of what makes it an environment that doesn't really carry over--you don't have the intensity of the group dynamic following you around in your every day life. But I still question a few things that happened during the time I took it.
I'm sorry if I seem to be contradicting myself. I don't think it compares to something like EST in terms of 'heavy handedness'. In fact, I wouldn't even let that be the deciding factor if I were you. I would try to determine how useful it might be in the long run. And it may be useful for you, I just don't think it's a substitute for therapy.
And I don't know how they bottle all that radiance-- they must put something in the water.
I'm sorry if I'm confusing you more! I would just hate to keep you from something you're that drawn to. There might be something in it for you.
Take care.
Posted by Newcomer on September 4, 2003, at 17:06:33
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by kara lynne on September 4, 2003, at 11:05:47
I'm kinda confusing myself over whether or not to do it, so the best thing is probably to leave it a while. Sounds like you exist in a rare little bubble during the course of the process and I suppose the trick is to translate that into the real world when you get back to day-to-day life.
I hope it was worthwhile for you even though there weren't any miracles. Even if I don't do it, I'm going to ask for a bottle of that radiance stuff.
G
x
Posted by mywayorthehighway on October 27, 2003, at 8:12:46
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on September 3, 2003, at 21:21:30
I did the process two years ago - it was so well lead and carefully managed - that even as a deeply cynical person I came away realising that there is real love and help available from the process - I would advise you to go with an open heat and mind and trust yourself.
Posted by Newcomer on October 27, 2003, at 9:44:51
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on October 27, 2003, at 8:12:46
Thank you for your feedback, I’m glad you had a positive experience. Has it helped you over the last two years? I got the feeling that it might be the sort of thing that gets you all fired up at first, but that wears off and long term the benefits aren’t that great. It’s a big step for me to do it (financially as well as emotionally) so I’d like to feel that it could have long term improvements, perhaps coupled with more mainstream therapy. As you advise, I think that I could go into it with an open heart, but I’m not sure I can trust myself. There seems to be a lot of ‘letting go’ as part of the process and I’m worried that if I let go too much I’ll fall apart and they won’t be able to put me back together again in a matter of days.
Posted by mywayorthehighway on October 27, 2003, at 10:08:20
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process » mywayorthehighway, posted by Newcomer on October 27, 2003, at 9:44:51
Hi - Yes it still works! Initially there is this fantastic euphoria and self-belief. In my case even after two years I know that I use The Process every day of my life. I am aware, I fall into a pattern and can see I am doing it. Yes there is a lot of "letting go" - but when I did my process I went thinking that my emotional baggage was so terrible and shocking that if I let go no one would help me rebuild. But the love and support of my group and the teachers guidance and faith in the real me soon made me appreciate that I was no worse or better than anyone else. The Process is "intense" but the effect is even more so - Have faith - its a very brave decision to decide to do it - the effect is empowering.
Posted by mywayorthehighway on October 27, 2003, at 10:13:19
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process » mywayorthehighway, posted by Newcomer on October 27, 2003, at 9:44:51
If it helps and you want to chat use my e.mail [email protected] - I too am a retiring english person LOL
Posted by Staylor on November 4, 2003, at 15:16:37
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by kara lynne on September 4, 2003, at 11:05:47
It is interesting that you should mention EST. Raz Ingrasci is the President of Hoffman Institute, and was the Director of International Programs for EST in the seventies. As recently as 1990, he was Director of Corporate Affairs of Lifespring (an offspring of EST).
I have heard mixed things about the process. I would be careful before anyone puts their mental health in the hands of someone other than a trained professional.
> I do think you get energy from the group; that's the whole dynamic. And I do think you are supported throughout. That's part of what makes it an environment that doesn't really carry over--you don't have the intensity of the group dynamic following you around in your every day life. But I still question a few things that happened during the time I took it.
>
> I'm sorry if I seem to be contradicting myself. I don't think it compares to something like EST in terms of 'heavy handedness'. In fact, I wouldn't even let that be the deciding factor if I were you. I would try to determine how useful it might be in the long run. And it may be useful for you, I just don't think it's a substitute for therapy.
>
> And I don't know how they bottle all that radiance-- they must put something in the water.
>
> I'm sorry if I'm confusing you more! I would just hate to keep you from something you're that drawn to. There might be something in it for you.
>
> Take care.
Posted by mywayorthehighway on November 5, 2003, at 4:45:04
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 4, 2003, at 15:16:37
You say : "I have heard mixed things about the process. I would be careful before anyone puts their mental health in the hands of someone other than a trained professional."
That rather implies that the Hoffman teachers are "untrained amateurs" . My experience of The Process and it teachers was one of enormous professionalism and dedication.
You say that you have heard "mixed things" about the process - maybe you could be more specific.
I dont want to be rude here but it appears to me that a little knowledge could be a dangerous thing!!
Best wishes
Posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 12:47:46
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 5, 2003, at 4:45:04
Well you certainly sound defensive. Isn't that a negative trait that should have been bashed out?
According to the Hoffman Website, a majority of the Process Faculty do not have an advanced degree in Pyschology or Psychiatry. They even list Andy Milberg, a porn star, among their process teachers.
I'm not saying the process is entirely bad. I just think people should research it for themselves. They should know the backgrounds of the people to whom they entrust their mental health.
> You say : "I have heard mixed things about the process. I would be careful before anyone puts their mental health in the hands of someone other than a trained professional."
>
> That rather implies that the Hoffman teachers are "untrained amateurs" . My experience of The Process and it teachers was one of enormous professionalism and dedication.
>
> You say that you have heard "mixed things" about the process - maybe you could be more specific.
>
> I dont want to be rude here but it appears to me that a little knowledge could be a dangerous thing!!
>
> Best wishes
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 2003, at 19:21:56
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 12:47:46
> Well you certainly sound defensive. Isn't that a negative trait that should have been bashed out?
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 20:45:16
In reply to Re: please be civil » Staylor, posted by Dr. Bob on November 5, 2003, at 19:21:56
> > Well you certainly sound defensive. Isn't that a negative trait that should have been bashed out?
>
> Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.Dr. Bob. I appreciate your forum, but why am I singled out? I was responding to a posting in which I was put down and felt accused. The direct quote was "I dont want to be rude here but it appears to me that a little knowledge could be a dangerous thing!!" Isn't that accusatory? Why didn't "mywayorthehighway" receive the same reprimand?
Posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:33:38
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 12:47:46
Hi - Thanks for the response - no offence was taken!
I do work on that pattern!!
I quess my experience of the process in the UK could have been different to the experiences others may have experienced in the US.
I was really not worried about what my teacher or the other teachers did when they were not teaching the process. I went in with my eyes open and an enquiring mind.
The process was the first therapy I had ever experienced. It was intense and demanding. I was also very rewarding. It changed my life.
Love
Piers
Posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:44:57
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 12:47:46
staylor - please accept my apologies
I had no intention of putting you down or accusing you - maybe I was just wanting to say - "I have done the process" "Have you?"
Love
Piers
Posted by Newcomer on November 6, 2003, at 8:55:39
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:33:38
Because I've been pondering on whether to do the Process, I love to hear anyone's opinion of it - good or bad. It seems to provoke strong reactions, probably because it's relatively extreme and unconventional.
It's been tough making my mind up because unlike mainstream therapy you can't try it out with the proviso that you can quit after a couple of sessions if it doesn't suit you. So everyone's view is worth considering. I have to say I had misgivings that the teachers aren't necessarily qualified psychotherapists, but to echo Piers, I guess you need an open mind (and a degree of trust) to allow it to work for you.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 2:25:44
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 20:45:16
> I was responding to a posting in which I was put down and felt accused. The direct quote was "I dont want to be rude here but it appears to me that a little knowledge could be a dangerous thing!!" Isn't that accusatory? Why didn't "mywayorthehighway" receive the same reprimand?
I replied over at PBA:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20031008/msgs/277380.html
Bob
Posted by kara lynne on November 7, 2003, at 13:40:17
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:33:38
--The process was the first therapy I had ever experienced---
Just a thought: maybe this lended itself to the experience being so effective for you.
Maybe not, but just a thought.
Posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 16:52:17
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:44:57
I’m glad the process worked for you. You seem to be very committed to it, and I do not want to take that away from you or anyone else. I do want people to sign up for The Process with their eyes wide open. The Hoffman Institute is very secretive as to what happens during that week, and who is going to train you.
I am a little bit more conservative. If I am going to turn my mental health over to some one for eight days and seven nights without any contact with the outside world including my support system, I would want to make sure that it is to a trained and licensed mental health care professional. With a licensed professional, one can usually expect that certain ethics and standards will apply.
My other concern is that the Hoffman website lists three research finds on The Process. The first one is an independent study that has not been published yet, the second one was written by a Hoffman Graduate, and the last one was written by a Hoffman board member. I would be interested to read the first study once it has finally been published.
Posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 16:52:17
Why?
I just do not understand why you feel the need to protect people from something you have no real knowledge of! I would love to know why!!! You say that you want them to sign up "with their eyes wide open" - Why?
The secrecy is something you would understand if you had done the process. Its part of the brilliance of the process.
Do I detect that you feel excluded by the secrecy? and because of that exclusion have pre-judged the process?
Of course I could be wrong - and please do not feel I am attacking you here - I do genuinely believe that the process is right for some and not for others - but only they can decide that!!
If it helps why not look at
http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/articles/results.htm
The Windhausen Study
The Caldwell Report
The Candate Report
The Professionals SpeakThat might help
Love
Piers
Posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 18:58:09
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53
The Windhausen Study - Was written by Christiane Windhausen of Hoffman Institute Dusseldorf
The Caldwell Report - Isn't a research finding. This is the psychological profiling questionnaire that you complete before you take The Process. The questionnaire/ report was developed in the Alex Caldwell in the late sixties. According to their website www.caldwellreport.com, the report profiles an individual and "specifies characteristics and predictions".
The Candate Report - Was written by Alison Candate, Hoffman Graduate. This was her thesis for her degree from JFK University. She is also employeed by Hoffman Canada.
> Why?
>
> I just do not understand why you feel the need to protect people from something you have no real knowledge of! I would love to know why!!! You say that you want them to sign up "with their eyes wide open" - Why?
>
> The secrecy is something you would understand if you had done the process. Its part of the brilliance of the process.
>
> Do I detect that you feel excluded by the secrecy? and because of that exclusion have pre-judged the process?
>
> Of course I could be wrong - and please do not feel I am attacking you here - I do genuinely believe that the process is right for some and not for others - but only they can decide that!!
>
> If it helps why not look at
>
> http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/articles/results.htm
>
> The Windhausen Study
> The Caldwell Report
> The Candate Report
> The Professionals Speak
>
> That might help
>
>
>
> Love
>
> Piers
>
Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2003, at 19:01:39
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53
My only concern would be the potential for decompensation that sometimes occurs with intensive programs. It's not unheard of for people to have a psychotic break.
I think I'd rather have trained professionals on hand to keep an eye out for that sort of thing.
Just my thoughts. Never have done the Process.
Posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 13:36:03
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process » mywayorthehighway, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2003, at 19:01:39
I did the process last year & was devastated by it. Now I know why we spent so much time filling out forms saying we would not sue! It tore away all my coping skills, I had to go on bi-polar meds, & could not function for several months afterwards...definitely not for everyone. I really regret doing it.
> My only concern would be the potential for decompensation that sometimes occurs with intensive programs. It's not unheard of for people to have a psychotic break.
>
> I think I'd rather have trained professionals on hand to keep an eye out for that sort of thing.
>
> Just my thoughts. Never have done the Process.
Posted by Newcomer on August 3, 2004, at 15:08:36
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 13:36:03
That sounds like a real ordeal you went through. I was very keen to do the process last year but decided not to because it isn't something you can just try for a few hours then decide whether it's right for you. My worry was always that I would be overwhelmed by it and fall apart, in which case, would they be able to put me back together again?
I'm having some personal turmoil right now and strangely, was thinking today for the first time in ages that maybe I should have a rethink about doing it. I guess your posting is a sign for me not to. Can I ask you how it took away your coping skills?
Posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 15:33:21
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Newcomer on August 3, 2004, at 15:08:36
It was quite an ordeal that I'm still digging my way out of. I'd be happy to tell you ALL about it, including all the activities we did. I do not feel protective about revealing their methods. That may be better to do off-list, but I am not sure how to write to someone off-list here.
The process seemed to tear away my ego (ie: coping skills) so violently there was nothing left to hang onto when I got back home. I couldn't work or function, and was a crying mess. BUT, my experience is VERY unusual I hear, & I would love to find some people who had a disastrous experience with the process like I had. They SAY they are putting you back together again, but it did not happen for me.
> That sounds like a real ordeal you went through. I was very keen to do the process last year but decided not to because it isn't something you can just try for a few hours then decide whether it's right for you. My worry was always that I would be overwhelmed by it and fall apart, in which case, would they be able to put me back together again?
>
> I'm having some personal turmoil right now and strangely, was thinking today for the first time in ages that maybe I should have a rethink about doing it. I guess your posting is a sign for me not to. Can I ask you how it took away your coping skills?
Posted by Newcomer on August 4, 2004, at 6:28:02
In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 15:33:21
That's awful, seems like you're doing your best to get through it. I can't remember where, but I heard of someone else who had similar problems, not as bad as you though. It's something I'll have to rule out for myself, even mainstream therapy had a profound negative effect on me when I first started it and I was barely able to function for a while.
Take care.
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