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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 9:01:16
In reply to re: questions, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2004, at 2:46:06
Had this post all loaded up, although now I am reminded that due to my shorter time here; intermittent idealism/naivete; and habituation to how conversation *usually* works, I can still get caught up in attempting to provide that golden clarification of the issue or question that could actually lead to true directness. Which may not be such a rewarding activity. Oh well...
I will even start with something positive, since I know the likelihood of change can get even lesser if told we never could/will. I'm glad you did show up Dr. Bob, I know we want to encourage that. And I'm glad you have acknowledged that unfairness exists, and that you're not opposed to apologizing for at least some things. Following are some responses to your own responses/questions.
> ...They probably got the idea that discussion, to some degree including you, was being welcomed. Or that they would be given some information as to what was transpiring...>
>> Sorry, I had no way of predicting how this process was going to go. I do in fact welcome discussion. What you see is what's transpiring... >
<<<<< That's probably where a lot of the confusion came in -- with people seeing you as an integral part of this and thinking you'd participate more actively, discussing rather than occasionally refuting or asking clarification in what could be seen as a diversionary way. It looked like maybe the carrot was dangled and then yanked back, leaving us appearing to be dissenting just for its own sake. I think we started to feel like we had erred in assuming that much beyond "yes" or "no" had been solicited or was welcome and would lead to interaction of some kind.
> I’m confused as to how this answer:
>
> > I try my best to understand context. Even if that means reading and re-reading...
>
> ties in with these...
>
> > I don't always read every line of every post, especially if it isn't civil...
>
> > If you'll allow me the same latitude, if someone doesn't want me to miss something potentially important, they should be civil...
>
> Additionally, the first answer is hard to spot in action,... I thought the default explanation in those cases was that it was somehow too late or there wasn't time to go back and address other violations, even if it had only been hours/day(s).
>
>> Sorry, I'm confused, what answer is hard to spot?<<<<<< Just meant that it's hard to spot "reading and re-reading" in action, when in the end other violations or prohibited language are so frequently still missed on a thread, and is part of what we're discussing now.
>> Hmm, let me rephrase that... I don't always read every line of every post. But if there's a civility issue, I will if I need to. But I may not respond to questions in an uncivil post...Is that more comprehensible?
<<<<<< A little ... But I don't think only unanswered questions in posts were being referred to, but rather something you said that sounded like in general you may disregard the good in a post if you spot a possible civility infraction (“I don't always read every line of every post, especially if it isn't civil”). So I still don’t quite get how one can read and re-read to determine civility and context, and at the same time profess to sometimes stop reading as soon as the civility issue is spotted...
> The last sentence is a recurring one, that seems to modify any apology with “…but it is their unique weakness” or something of that nature...
>
>> Sorry, that's not my intent at all. What I mean is, of course some people here are really going to care about fairness (because they've been subjected to unfairness).<<<<< Thank you, that was an important difference!
> even though chicklet also (kindly) provided you with an edited and absolutely civil version of jim's post
>
>> Was it edited? I had no idea.<<<<<< I think Chicklet reposted Jimi’s entire post, then I posted an attempted edit...
> i think it's beyond the pale to keep the decision as to whether it's a good idea to be flexible in this particular case to be such an ordeal that you can't come to a decision before a month has passed.
>
>> I wanted to leave time for discussion, and discussion has continued...<<<<<< Again, I just think people thought you were going to be more a part of it, shed light, appear to be interested in addressing ideas and opinions. Like I mentioned, it probably would have helped if people knew from the start, or at some point prior to this, that you were just presenting the subject and would be back in four weeks.
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 9:22:27
In reply to Dr. Bob is a hypocrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2004, at 10:23:57
If you want Dr Bob, and everyone here to read your entire post, be succint. I am really interested in this thread, but sometimes I open these posts, and say, "Woah now....!".
The audience would grow, the participation would increase, Bob would be more effective, if we could all be concise.
Kick me, but do it briefly. :-)
Em
Posted by AuntieMel on June 10, 2004, at 10:06:30
In reply to re: questions » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 8:16:24
Thank you very much for wording what I was thinking.
By too tired to participate, I meant my brain was too tired. I'm the type that lives by my logical brain and muffles feelings. This discussion didn't seem to me to follow any kind of logical progression (is this ok for "i" statements?)
I know I've only been visible here for a short time, but have followed the history from the beginning. And I've noticed a huge change from the early days when there were fewer people and needed little policing to now. So, while the immediate question is about Lar's block - and most of us thinking even 4 weeks was too much - I was also hoping it would lead to a fuller discussion about blocks in general.
I would venture to guess that just about everyone here would agree that a larger issue does exist.
And for Jimi's block - I was caught totally off guard. I was reading the post thinking about how well written it was and how much he needed answers that when I saw the block I was floored. Especially when the only negative bits were about a past occurrence that was a HUGE issue at the time. And even these weren't ranting. (sigh)
Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 10:51:55
In reply to Suggestion - don't hit me, posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 9:22:27
.... meaning another tidal wave of words in your face -- verbosity to address a succinctness issue -- of all the ironic things. Not me hitting you! :- )
(Thanks Mel, for thinking Fayeroe and myself have helped *maintain* focus. But as I also know the post size issue deters some, I must address and validate what Emmy said. And Mel -- in case you actually *hadn't* meant that I've contributed focus -- don't tell me, 'k? Sooner or later I'll get help!:) This post is all about me, so everyone here for the issues *please* feel free to tune out! ;- )
> ...be succint. I am really interested in this thread, but sometimes I open these posts, and say, "Woah now....!".
>
> The audience would grow, the participation would increase, Bob would be more effective, if we could all be concise.
>
> Kick me, but do it briefly. :-)
>
> Em<<<<<< Hi Emmy,
I have NO idea why ;-), but I think I could be amongst any of those covered in this subject. And I have no desire to hit you, or be mad. I know shorter is better for many purposes, and I've speculated on how this impacts me countless times.
Rather, it makes me sad, because as of now this is just how my brain is. I think some people just do have an in-depth style of addressing things, and hopefully also find a willing and similar market for that somewhere. But in my case, I think it's also a ramification of my OCD/perfectionism. And I have a huge fear that in general I do have good things to say, but that I bury any chance of having it heard, seen or even getting to know people in high word counts.
I give myself major tension sometimes proceeding this way, but I "physically" can't help it or usually even see where I could have cut something out. Trying to edit can add hour(s) during which I'll probably think of even MORE to add. I also bump word count by trying so hard to be tactful, and through automatically covering comments and questions I *anticipate* would be forthcoming based on what I'm saying.
That may not sound like a good way to do it and I indeed don't mean to, but ya know what.... When I don't, I see that in fact things often do ensue that wouldn't have if I had been as thorough as my impulses had dictated when first composing the thing. Meaning a suggestion or angle I already tried; or in the case of debate, a hole seeming to open up that didn't need to be there. As in someone coming back with "But -- aha! X,Y,Z!", when XYZ were things I DID anticipate would be said, so had actually wanted to cover in the first place. By nature I try to be airtight I guess. Now, differing opinions, great! I'm just compelled (as in compulsion) to head off possible misinterpretations or already-thought-of responses. And it all blends together so much to me that I can't see which is which anyway.
I have *no* idea if I managed to convey what I mean there! You can probably see by reading this that I am just afflicted with having too many "factors" on the brain at all times. It's painful (ADD has been proposed too). You should see me try to handle even routine business and errands. It's like Cheech and Chong sitting around high as kites, and *purposely* trying to see how complicated they could make everything, just to be funny.
I SO envy the people here who communicate back and forth in installments of a paragraph or two, without having all the other peripheral relevant thoughts, or blood vessels pulsing in their foreheads trying to channel them! But don't leave the seal unbroken on my posts, I can indeed be brief too, maybe just not on certain especially passionate or complex subjects.
I wish so much I was different, but as I'm not (and haven't given meds a crack at it), I always just hope that instead of assessing the length, people will start reading and assess whether it's interesting and relevant. Hey, they'll move on to read the same amount in the next 15 small posts, so what's the diff? Ha ha, I know it doesn't work that way. Maybe I should post 5 smaller posts in a row at times. That would look funny, but probably actually go down easier. And now I'm embarrassed that this got so long too. *<groan>*
Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 11:01:56
In reply to Suggestion - don't hit me, posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 9:22:27
... maybe this would have been better:
"You definitely have a point Emmy, I agree. I do feel what I've said is all relevant, but know that it is also probably impacted by my untreated OCD and ADD. Oh well, hope my points still get through and/or are interesting to some!"
WOW. That did satisfy me too. But unfortunately it is almost *never* ever ever ever ever as clear or easy for me to see as it was with this. (Hey, do you think I could have cut out a few "ever"s, ya know it's a funny thing about that, when I was a small child..... HAAAAAAAAAA!!! ;- )
And WOW again -- I guess this *isn't* short, it's average length! Gee, I do have my work cut out for me. LUVOX, take me away! ;- )
Posted by AuntieMel on June 10, 2004, at 11:38:05
In reply to Re: BAM!!!!!!!! » TofuEmmy, posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 10:51:55
Yes, I did mean you are both helping maintain focus, but I also meant that both of you echoed things that were stuck in the brain and wouldn't come out.
And as for verbosity, I like the way you post. It's all so thought out and has a logical progression. Succintness might help some when trying to get Dr. Bob to read what you wrote, though. As for anything else, please don't change.
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 11:46:44
In reply to Re: BAM!!!!!!!! » TofuEmmy, posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 10:51:55
Spoc - My note was definately not aimed at any one person., or even one topic...just noted it here because it's such an interesting one.
I'm sorry if you felt picked on! I liked both versions of your post! They both made me wanna share my fritos with you.
:-)
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 12:32:39
In reply to Re: BAM!!!!!!!! » TofuEmmy, posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 10:51:55
spoc, I love you just the way you are and I totally understand the process that you work in. And if we were cats and we just had one rat, I'd give it to you!!!!!!!!!! You'll never, ever know how much your support has meant to me. Having someone like you and Mel and BrioChimpy and Sabina and Jimi watching my back is forever good. See, I envy the way you write because I can think it but I just can't put it in to my fingers for the keyboard. And Mel, thanks for mentioning how you felt about Jimi's block. I know Jimi, off this board, and I was absolutely stunned over the block. I read and re-read to see where the block came from and could not find anything. Jimi is one stellar feller.
I do think that Bob just doesn't like for us to question things. And that is what makes me so sad about this place. Stay in line, cross your Ts and dot your Is and don't pick your nose! Well, this board exists because we are the way that we are........gratefulness couldn't be shown, now could it? I could go on but I'm making bread and I need to knead the h+++ out of it for my mid-day therapy.
Sabina, could we meet for a coke someday and talk about men and kick our shoes off and run in the grass and just be girls again? I hope that you read this because I know you're gone from the board but maybe.......and Brio, how's about you leading a cheer for all of those who make sense and like to see it made? You're one of the reasons that I kept plugging away. Jimi, I'll see you the next time I come to Austin.....Lar, I tried and tried and tried. I'm sorry to say that I don't think things will be better because I don't see that change, openness, honesty, etc. is welcome here in the little Bobby kingdom. So administration is open once again to little tiffs over profanity, feelings, etc.
Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 12:45:49
In reply to Re: BAM!!!!!!!! » spoc, posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 11:46:44
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 12:59:22
In reply to Re:(sniff sniff) Thanx so much girls, means a LOT! (nm), posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 12:45:49
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 13:16:02
In reply to Re:(sniff sniff) Thanx so much girls, means a LOT! (nm), posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 12:45:49
Helloo?? I was nooooot directly that to Spoc! It was a general comment after people were complaining about Bob not administering well. It was just a way to make his job easier. It had nothing to do with this thread specifically. It had to do with Babble...ALL of Babble. The World o' Babble.
I am pulling my hair out here. Spoc feels badly, everyone sweetly cames to her aid, and this was just a misunderstanding!!! Eeeekkkkk!!!!
Balding Emmy
Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 15:32:37
In reply to Jimminy Cricket!, posted by TofuEmmy on June 10, 2004, at 13:16:02
I don't think anyone saw themselves as defending me, only complimenting/supporting me because I put *MYSELF* down!
And I did not think you necessarily meant me only, and in any event I was not offended because I know this about myself already. I'm glad I can still be effective to some but I also know hands-down I lose others. But still, I did not feel singled out and when I said "Thanx girls" I actually meant you too, for reading my response then wanting to share your Fritos with me!!! I LOVE Fritos, but even more importantly, I took it as a sign of "I'm ok, you're ok." No problems at all! I can rake in good feelings from anyone noting to me that my style works for them (not that you disputed that either!), while also acknowledging any other views and seeing that it is not an either-or matter!
All good there? All is good here! Let's break Fritos! :- )
Posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 15:38:33
In reply to Zenhussy is also to be thanked for support!!!!!!!! (nm) » spoc, posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 12:59:22
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 18:43:34
In reply to Re: Yes, here's to Zen! Hope she's here somewhere! (nm) » fayeroe, posted by spoc on June 10, 2004, at 15:38:33
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 22:04:50
In reply to re: questions, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2004, at 2:46:06
I'm sorry that you don't have time to answer each poster's questions individually. I feel dis-respected by that. I've felt that before though so it's nothing new. To combine snippets from three different writers into one answer seems to me to be typical of someone not wanting to go to too much trouble concerning something that is important to this board. Here come the I messages. I think you're full of it, Bob. I feel that your arrogance concerning your position of being the "administrator" is going to be your downfall. I believe that you court the little kissy-kissy group and you are threatened by those who don't necessarily fall into line with them. I hope that I'm not perceived as being civil and I truly hope that you are offended. I've given some thought to it and had discussion with colleagues and you just aren't worth the energy this is taking. You did not learn one thing from the other incident...unless it was more ways to be evasive. For all the good people who've left this place, hold on, I'm coming. (Sam the Sham)
Posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 8:38:36
In reply to re: questions » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2004, at 22:04:50
I have another I message for Bob. It came to me this a.m. while having my coffee. I have too much self-respect to continue with the games here. (That is not to say that the others who post have less self-respect than I.) I just have that gut feeling that one of your goals is to reduce people to your level and I refuse to go along with that. All human beings deserve to be treated with dignity and I feel that certain personalities here aren't given that courtesy. It's a shame because we all have something unique to offer. Perhaps you don't want the uniqueness of certain posters to be accepted here. It's beyond the pale that you can't receive the people who have different views and approaches than yourself. I would think it would enrich your world but I see it as threatening to you. And that's just very sad. I close this with my real name, Pat, and not the name of my wonderful dog, Fayeroe. Adios, Amigos. (and no, this isn't like Cher's 10th farewell tour!! :-)
Posted by karen_kay on June 11, 2004, at 8:54:00
In reply to re: questions » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 8:38:36
take care of yourself dear. i'll miss you. hey! we haven't even had that date yet :(
if the feeling ever strikes you, you can always email me at karen_kay12 at yahoo. i'll reply in a second, with a smile on my face.
please do take very good care of that lovely lady i know as fayeroe and your precious dog too. you will be missed here.
Posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 9:02:15
In reply to (((((((pat)))))))) » fayeroe, posted by karen_kay on June 11, 2004, at 8:54:00
Thank you. I will write to you and keep you posted on my shopping for our date. I'm thinking pink tulle with little rosebuds scattered amuck on the daringly low bodice of the angel-type frock that I know I'll find.......
Posted by spoc on June 11, 2004, at 9:32:21
In reply to Re: (((((((pat)))))))) » karen_kay, posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 9:02:15
Pat, thanks for being a cause-carer and no-sh** bearer as long and well as you have!
I don't really think of myself as here anymore either, ha ha. I've learned at Babble that it is ok and probably best to protect one's own precious energy and mood resources first when possible. I may continue to contribute when genuinely inspired but maybe not, who knows. So if you don't see me over here holding the torch or doing so consistently, I know you'll understand. Maybe Jimi will be all refreshed to jump back in soon... or maybe not, but we'll certainly fully understand that too. And this'll all be taking some turn or another at the four week point, which is almost upon us.
Take care of yourself, and I know I don't have to say it, but we won't be *hoping* you stay gone! Would love to see you back, with the ebb and flow of inspiration; or to just breeze through the other boards and enjoy yourself cause-free. :- )
Posted by gardenergirl on June 11, 2004, at 11:01:18
In reply to re: questions » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 8:38:36
Pat,
I've always enjoyed reading your posts. I'm sorry that you have come to this point, as it will be a felt loss here. Please take care and know that you will be missed. Maybe we'll see you in Open sometime where all views are welcome.Thanks to yahoo I have two ID's to give you: gardenergirl66 for IMing, and gardenergirl88 for email. Gotta love yahoo.
gg
Posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 11:50:27
In reply to ((((Pat)))))) » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on June 11, 2004, at 11:01:18
thank you, gardengirl..i've always loved your name because i love to garden.....how does your garden grow? take care of yourself. perhaps i will come to open sometime. xoxo
Posted by fayeroe on June 11, 2004, at 11:52:56
In reply to Re: (((((((pat)))))))) » fayeroe, posted by spoc on June 11, 2004, at 9:32:21
Thank you, spoc! i still think your posts rock. i never, ever minded the length and i wish i could be as concise as you are...i told gg that i may go to open occasionally.....i don't regret trying to change things a bit....:-0
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2004, at 9:21:21
In reply to re: questions, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2004, at 2:46:06
> I don't think a decision is absolutely necessary until the 4-week point.
Which we're at now. Well, I've reduced it, let's see what happens next. Thanks for your patience,
Bob
Posted by spoc on June 12, 2004, at 9:25:12
In reply to re: hoover man's block reduced, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2004, at 9:21:21
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 12, 2004, at 11:39:14
In reply to re: hoover man's block reduced, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2004, at 9:21:21
> > I don't think a decision is absolutely necessary until the 4-week point.
>
> Which we're at now. Well, I've reduced it, let's see what happens next. Thanks for your patience,
>
> BobThis a test of the Hoover broadcasting system. It is only a test. Do not be alarmed. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Lar
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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