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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay2112 on June 1, 2022, at 4:10:08
A first in N. America...the Cdn province of BC was granted a request to the Federal Gov't to decriminalize ALL drugs. The limit is 3.5 grams on each person.
The Federal gov't is expected to follow through with a nationalwide similar allowance within the next year! So...come on up to Canada folks, and tune in, drop out!!
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 1, 2022, at 13:04:24
In reply to Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Jay2112 on June 1, 2022, at 4:10:08
WOT? What about prescription drugs?
Posted by Hugh on June 1, 2022, at 16:03:08
In reply to Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Jay2112 on June 1, 2022, at 4:10:08
Congratulations! If decriminalization is half as successful in British Columbia as it has been in Portugal, it will still be a stunning success.
Posted by Jay2112 on June 1, 2022, at 16:05:42
In reply to Re: Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Lamdage22 on June 1, 2022, at 13:04:24
> WOT? What about prescription drugs?
Well, they are targeting illicit drugs, but if you don't have a prescription on you, you won't be arrested. But this doesn't mean you can walk into any pharmacy and get drugs without a prescription.
There are still some limitations. But, I should be able to order magic mushrooms, MDMA, etc, online from B.C. The cops really don't care about those drugs anyways. But, the thing is, they won't ship outside of Canada. And yes, I am Canadian. :)Jay
Posted by SLS on June 1, 2022, at 16:53:56
In reply to Re: Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Hugh on June 1, 2022, at 16:03:08
> Congratulations! If decriminalization is half as successful in British Columbia as it has been in Portugal, it will still be a stunning success.
I hope you are right. What is the explanation for how things happened in Portugal?
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on June 2, 2022, at 0:19:40
In reply to Re: Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!! » Hugh, posted by SLS on June 1, 2022, at 16:53:56
> > Congratulations! If decriminalization is half as successful in British Columbia as it has been in Portugal, it will still be a stunning success.
>
>
> I hope you are right. What is the explanation for how things happened in Portugal?
>
>
> - ScottOnce Portugal's addicts were no longer being treated like criminals, they were much more likely to come out of hiding and seek treatment for their addictions. Money that had been spent to house addicts in jails and in prisons is now paying for social workers and for rehab programs.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 2, 2022, at 0:47:09
In reply to Re: Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!! » SLS, posted by Hugh on June 2, 2022, at 0:19:40
Thank goodness. Hopefully this idea will spread to other countries.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 2, 2022, at 1:03:16
In reply to Re: Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Lamdage22 on June 2, 2022, at 0:47:09
The war on drugs is so stupid. Make war on family dysfunction instead. Family dysfunction -> mental illness -> drug addiction -> homelessness. I got that idea from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzdHQUKYS3Q&t=195s
Posted by Jay2112 on June 2, 2022, at 18:31:00
In reply to Canadian province BC decriminalizes ALL drugs!!, posted by Jay2112 on June 1, 2022, at 4:10:08
Just to add, this in no way legalizes selling/dealing illicit drugs. Also, you are only allowed 3.5 grams on your personal self. You can't produce this stuff in your home lab. As well, this doesn't mean legalizing it. If you are caught with it, you will be court ordered to go through detox and rehab, rather than jail, with a criminal record.
Jay
Posted by linkadge on June 2, 2022, at 18:40:07
In reply to *just a note on this, posted by Jay2112 on June 2, 2022, at 18:31:00
And they're going to pay for detox and rehab for everybody they catch with a gram or two of shrooms??
How about just leaving people alone?The wait list to see a psychiatrist is over 2 years in Ontario. Then they bust you for trying to self medicate?? The whole system is a joke.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 3, 2022, at 1:05:05
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 2, 2022, at 18:40:07
Is there such a thing as a shroom addiction? I have never heard that.
> And they're going to pay for detox and rehab for everybody they catch with a gram or two of shrooms??
> How about just leaving people alone?
>
> The wait list to see a psychiatrist is over 2 years in Ontario. Then they bust you for trying to self medicate?? The whole system is a joke.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by NKP on June 3, 2022, at 10:29:05
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 2, 2022, at 18:40:07
> And they're going to pay for detox and rehab for everybody they catch with a gram or two of shrooms??
> How about just leaving people alone?
>
> The wait list to see a psychiatrist is over 2 years in Ontario. Then they bust you for trying to self medicate?? The whole system is a joke.
>
> LinkadgeLinkadge! I'm so glad you're back. I was getting worried.
Posted by linkadge on June 3, 2022, at 16:08:39
In reply to Re: *just a note on this » linkadge, posted by NKP on June 3, 2022, at 10:29:05
I'm here. Going through a rough patch. My mother went to long term care and my father just went to the hospital for a blood clot. I'm trying to finish off the school year (as a temporary teacher). To be honest I've been a bit suicidal (don't sound the alarm, I'm ok). I haven't had these feelings in a while, but my life is just so far from where I want it to be.
Linkadge
Posted by Jay2112 on June 3, 2022, at 19:43:23
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 2, 2022, at 18:40:07
> And they're going to pay for detox and rehab for everybody they catch with a gram or two of shrooms??
> How about just leaving people alone?
>
> The wait list to see a psychiatrist is over 2 years in Ontario. Then they bust you for trying to self medicate?? The whole system is a joke.
>
> LinkadgeHi Linkadge:
I am sorry you are going through such a crappy time. Your stress of juggling these circumstances seems pretty intense. What psych meds do you use? Are you on any?
And I completely agree....sending people to rehab over carrying a small dose of any drug is stupid. But, I highly doubt they will be looking for shrooms or NMDA or typical rec drugs. Hell, there is a mushroom store right in downtown Vancouver, that has been running for many years without a single bust! And, there are so many places that sell shrooms online, it's obvious the cops don't really care about these drugs.
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2022, at 0:05:26
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 3, 2022, at 16:08:39
> I'm here. Going through a rough patch. My mother went to long term care and my father just went to the hospital for a blood clot. I'm trying to finish off the school year (as a temporary teacher). To be honest I've been a bit suicidal (don't sound the alarm, I'm ok). I haven't had these feelings in a while, but my life is just so far from where I want it to be.
>
> LinkadgeLow dose Lithium may help with being a bit suicidal.
Posted by linkadge on June 5, 2022, at 13:01:24
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2022, at 0:05:26
>Low dose Lithium may help with being a bit suicidal.
I am taking 300mg of lithium carbonate. It helps. The feelings are not intense. I am mainly battling extreme fatigue and ongoing hopelessness about my career.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 5, 2022, at 13:03:23
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 5, 2022, at 13:01:24
> >Low dose Lithium may help with being a bit suicidal.
>
> I am taking 300mg of lithium carbonate. It helps. The feelings are not intense. I am mainly battling extreme fatigue and ongoing hopelessness about my career.
>
> LinkadgeAt least you have a career :)
Posted by linkadge on June 5, 2022, at 18:59:33
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by Lamdage22 on June 5, 2022, at 13:03:23
>>At least you have a career :)
Well, 'career' is a bit of a misnomer. I have a job that I hate that is probably going to get cut.
Linkadge
Posted by Jay2112 on June 5, 2022, at 19:15:44
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 5, 2022, at 13:01:24
**just a secondary note...I believe I may have been wrong about those possessing illicit drugs to have to do detox and rehab..and this is a progressive story. The Feds are open to making this Canada-wide...https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/drug-decrim-threshold-1.6477327
British Columbia is set to become the first province to decriminalize possession of small amounts of illicit drugs but drug users, advocates, and the province's chief coroner warn the threshold of 2.5 grams set by the federal government ignores the hard realities of how people buy and use drugs in the province.
Canadians 18 years of age and older will be able to possess up to a cumulative 2.5 grams of opioids, cocaine, methamphetamine and MDMA within B.C. as of Jan. 31, 2023.
The province applied for an exemption under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act in November 2021, with a threshold of 4.5 grams. The federal government lowered the threshold to 2.5 grams, citing feedback from law enforcement officials across B.C.
Kevin Yake, vice-president of the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users (VANDU) and a drug user of 40 years, said many entrenched drug users are dependent on far more than 2.5 grams a day, and that the policy, while significant, "sets them up for failure."
Small-scale possession of illicit drugs will be decriminalized in B.C. starting next year: Ottawa
"At 4.5 grams, I thought that was low. Two-point-five grams, I think that's ridiculous," he said.
"I need that to wake up in the morning. For people with higher tolerances it doesn't really cut it at all," he said.
Yake said many users buy in bulk or with a partner, to save money and minimize the number of transactions that put them a risk.
"Now it's a new ball game make sure I have enough for that day because I've got to score again."
'A half-measure'Ryan McNeil, director of harm-reduction research at the Yale Program in Addiction Medicine and an affiliated scientist at the B.C. Centre on Substance Use, said the threshold fails to account for many of the dynamics of drug use specific to Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, where the highly toxic drug fentanyl pushes people to use higher and higher amounts.
"One of the dynamics of fentanyl is that it's a shorter-acting opioid than heroin, so over time we see people using it in higher volumes than they would have previously," he said.
"There are some people who potentially might eliminate and disentangle the police from their lives and that's important but it's going to leave so many people behind. In that regard it's really a policy that represents a half-measure."
B.C. decriminalization plan won't do much to stop toxic drug deaths, says chief coroner
Carolyn Bennett, federal minister of mental health and addictions, said the government's decision to reduce the threshold for possession from 4.5 to 2.5 grams was based on input from law enforcement across the country.
She said the threshold is a "starting point," that can be adjusted as needed.
Bennett said law enforcement data revealed 85 per cent of drug seizures are for quantities less than two grams, though it wasn't specified what time frame and region that data was specific to.
Carolyn Bennett, federal minister of mental health and addictions, and associate minister of health, back left, listens as B.C. Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry speaks during a news conference after B.C. was granted an exemption to decriminalize possession of some illegal drugs for personal use on Tuesday. (Darryl Dyck/The Canadian Press)The British Columbia Association of Chiefs of Police said the average amount of hard drugs seized across departments varies from an average of 1.9 grams for the Vancouver and Abbotsford Police departments, to 1.6 grams for the Victoria Police department, and 1.3 grams for the RCMP North District.
Some measurements factor in the weight of the drug packaging, while others do not.
Details of police enforcement unknownVancouver Police said in a statement that it supports harm reduction measures and is waiting on the province and Police Services for guidance on how officers will enforce the threshold.
McNeil said it's key to know how much discretion law enforcement will have, and what tools they will use, in determining how the threshold is applied.
"Two-point-five grams is difficult to eyeball how are police necessarily going to be equipped to eyeball that in the field? Does that mean this might become a mechanism by which anything above that threshold becomes understood to be potentially possession with the intent to sell, or marks someone as potentially selling drugs?" he said.
Liberals say they're open to speaking with provinces, cities about expanding drug decriminalization
"We need to raise questions about how this will actually be implemented in real world settings and whether it might perpetuate the inequities that we see in the policing and potential incarceration of especially Indigenous people but also other folks who are racialized."
Yake, who said VANDU will continue advocating for a higher legal threshold, said he believes the federal government should have consulted with drug users and health-care workers, rather than law enforcement bodies from across the country.
"I just see more money for the police and more headaches and obstacles for the user," he said.
"It's not a cure, legalizing a little bit of narcotics. It's got to be more than that, having safe supply that's tested every day before it goes out to the user, guaranteeing that person's not going to drop dead from a heavy, heavy dosage of fentanyl, which is poison."
More than 9,400 people in B.C. have died of toxic drug overdoses since the province declared a public health emergency in 2016, an average of six people a day
Posted by SLS on June 6, 2022, at 5:40:01
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 3, 2022, at 16:08:39
> I'm here. Going through a rough patch. My mother went to long term care and my father just went to the hospital for a blood clot. I'm trying to finish off the school year (as a temporary teacher). To be honest I've been a bit suicidal (don't sound the alarm, I'm ok). I haven't had these feelings in a while, but my life is just so far from where I want it to be.
>
> Linkadge
I'm sorry, Linkadge.I just lost my mother to Alzheimer's Disease and congestive heart failure.
I have no advice for you other than to try to lower your stress load as much as possible when you have the luxury of free time.
Would magnesium be of any use?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 6, 2022, at 5:53:13
In reply to ***More on this topic..., posted by Jay2112 on June 5, 2022, at 19:15:44
Fentanyl is one of the most important drugs we have in the pharmacopia. Screw those who abuse it - and even die from abusing it. Ask the spouse of a cancer patient who is near death what they think of Fentanyl. What about people who need more than hydrocodone or dilaudid during the first few days after spinal fusion or knee-replacement surgery. Are we to ban every drug or scare the hell out of people regarding every useful drug that otherwise healthy people abuse? Cough medicine?
This really pisses me off.
And screw any doctor that tries to use half-life as a propaganda tool to cast a negative spin on the use of a valuable drug that he can't relate to personally.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on June 6, 2022, at 9:56:35
In reply to ***More on the topic from another perspective..., posted by SLS on June 6, 2022, at 5:53:13
> Fentanyl is one of the most important drugs we have in the pharmacopia. Screw those who abuse it - and even die from abusing it. Ask the spouse of a cancer patient who is near death what they think of Fentanyl. What about people who need more than hydrocodone or dilaudid during the first few days after spinal fusion or knee-replacement surgery. Are we to ban every drug or scare the hell out of people regarding every useful drug that otherwise healthy people abuse? Cough medicine?
>
> This really pisses me off.
>
> And screw any doctor that tries to use half-life as a propaganda tool to cast a negative spin on the use of a valuable drug that he can't relate to personally.
>
>
> - ScottHi SLS,
I sympathise with your point of view, but I must ask why you mention Dilaudid (hydromorphone) as an example of a potentially inadequate drug. It is more potent than morphine, per unit of weight, and morphine is still considered the gold standard.
In any case, there are factors beyond potency that distinguish the different opioids from each other. This is why opioid rotation is often a workable stategy to tackle the tolerance issue, but more importantly, the choice of which one(s) to use should be tailored to the specific patient.
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on June 6, 2022, at 16:46:29
In reply to Fentanyl, Dilaudid and others, posted by undopaminergic on June 6, 2022, at 9:56:35
> > Fentanyl is one of the most important drugs we have in the pharmacopia. Screw those who abuse it - and even die from abusing it. Ask the spouse of a cancer patient who is near death what they think of Fentanyl. What about people who need more than hydrocodone or dilaudid during the first few days after spinal fusion or knee-replacement surgery. Are we to ban every drug or scare the hell out of people regarding every useful drug that otherwise healthy people abuse? Cough medicine?
> >
> > This really pisses me off.
> >
> > And screw any doctor that tries to use half-life as a propaganda tool to cast a negative spin on the use of a valuable drug that he can't relate to personally.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi SLS,
>
> I sympathise with your point of view, but I must ask why you mention Dilaudid (hydromorphone) as an example of a potentially inadequate drug. It is more potent than morphine, per unit of weight, and morphine is still considered the gold standard.
>
> In any case, there are factors beyond potency that distinguish the different opioids from each other. This is why opioid rotation is often a workable stategy to tackle the tolerance issue, but more importantly, the choice of which one(s) to use should be tailored to the specific patient.
>
> -undopaminergic
>
I didn't say that hydromorphone was a useless drug. I didn't say that it was an inferior drug. However, fentanyl is often the only antinociceptive drug that can ease someone's intense suffering. The rest is not terribly relevant.Thank you for your input.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 7, 2022, at 4:50:43
In reply to Re: *just a note on this, posted by linkadge on June 5, 2022, at 18:59:33
Id like to experience MDMA once dancing to good techno. It doesnt mix with meds though and I already need neuroleptics.
Posted by Jay2112 on June 11, 2022, at 20:12:33
In reply to ***More on the topic from another perspective..., posted by SLS on June 6, 2022, at 5:53:13
> Fentanyl is one of the most important drugs we have in the pharmacopia. Screw those who abuse it - and even die from abusing it. Ask the spouse of a cancer patient who is near death what they think of Fentanyl. What about people who need more than hydrocodone or dilaudid during the first few days after spinal fusion or knee-replacement surgery. Are we to ban every drug or scare the hell out of people regarding every useful drug that otherwise healthy people abuse? Cough medicine?
>
> This really pisses me off.
>
> And screw any doctor that tries to use half-life as a propaganda tool to cast a negative spin on the use of a valuable drug that he can't relate to personally.
>
>
> - ScottScott...once again, I couldn't agree with you more! Fentanyl is on the WHO list of essential drugs, and it's inhumane and very short-sighted to try to drastically limit it, and outright stupid to think of banning it.
I say that because fentanyl is such a misunderstood drug. It is not some instant death inducing drug, IF it is used correctly. There is nothing wrong in public health measures to educate and explain safe use of the drug. Hell, you can find a lot just looking up a drug on rxlist.com, or google, pub med, and google scholar (I am by no means saying that IS an answer..) Let family doctors prescribe methadone and suboxone, freely. For the addiction doctors, have them hand out prescription heroin, prescription fentanyl (in safe doses), prescription cocaine, and have treatment and maintenance plans worked out.
But, for people in pain, opioids are much safer than toxic NSAIDS, Cox inhibitors, which put people at very high risk for stroke and heart attack, as well as kidney failure. Canada pulled all Cox inhibitors from the market years ago. Their effectiveness is still widely debated.
And, I am just brainstorming. I would hope public health officials, scientists, researchers can do much, much better.
Jay
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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