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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexcanada on March 23, 2013, at 12:09:15
In reply to Five days since my last klonopin (after 12 years), posted by joe schmoe on March 16, 2013, at 7:51:09
I been at 2.5mg valium for a while but recently dropped to 2mg these past 4+ days. So far I am getting lot less sleep. Past two days woke up with some sweating. dreams eventually become bit vivid. usually feel off and bit weird after waking. usually i can sleep for 2-3 hours then wake up middle of the night and can take time to fall asleep again. more than 5 hours of sleep per night is difficult. My mood is also usually darker. not easy to think. difficult to enjoy anything. sometimes headaches.
This withdrawal has been a long time coming. I used to take over 5mg a day a few months ago. and 10mg months before that.
I'm considering taking gabapentin at night. Would this be wise? Overall it is capable of making me feel more positive but makes me feel dumb. it gives bit of a lift.
My dose is usually about 0.5mg in late morning or noon. then 0.7mg early evening and 0.8mg at night.
such poor mood, very low drive interest motivation
> Think I'm gonna make it! :)
>
> I am surprised that stopping it altogether (from 1/8 of a mg, after a 3 month taper from 2 mg of course) has not been nearly as bad as some of the dosage decreases during the taper. I was expecting the end to be the worst part, but really the drop from 1/4 to 1/8 mg, and 1/8 mg to zero, were both much better than some of the earlier dosage drops.
>
> 1/8 mg was one-quarter of a 1/2 mg tablet, which you can practically do with your fingers, but I used a pill cutter to try to keep the dosages fairly even.
>
> Melatonin is helping me to get a deeper sleep, I wake up feeling more refreshed, even though I still wake up sometimes. I think the booze is hurting my quality of sleep and I plan to cut back to one drink a day this week.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 23, 2013, at 12:26:35
In reply to My withdrawal is troublesome so far » joe schmoe, posted by alexcanada on March 23, 2013, at 12:09:15
Lack of sleep can aggravate the withdrawal symptoms quite a bit, I think. I am finding melatonin to be quite a help with getting deeper more refreshing sleep.
I do tend to wake up around 3 AM, but I usually can get back to sleep before long. This is actually a normal sleep pattern. There have been some articles recently about the historical evidence that humans always had a "first sleep" and a "second sleep" with several hours in between, until the invention of electric lighting.
I think people who get stressed out about waking up in the middle of the night, are compounding the problem. It is kind of a pain, but an easy solution might be to go to bed earlier and schedule some "evening" activity for the time between first and second sleep, if you have trouble getting back to sleep right away. That way you could work with this sleep pattern instead of fighting it and ending up with not enough sleep total.
Posted by Phillipa on March 23, 2013, at 21:02:04
In reply to Re: My withdrawal is troublesome so far » alexcanada, posted by joe schmoe on March 23, 2013, at 12:26:35
You are so right. Been my normal sleep pattern for so many years. I take part of the valium and save the rest for when I wake and use bathroom, take synthroid and go back to sleep easily. And sleep. Phillipa
Posted by alexcanada on March 24, 2013, at 23:10:40
In reply to Re: My withdrawal is troublesome so far » alexcanada, posted by joe schmoe on March 23, 2013, at 12:26:35
normally i have not suffered from frequent awakenings. i used to be able to sleep for several hours in a row. now i wake up every 2-3 hours with a few exceptions and it often takes an extremely long time to fall asleep.
i may try some magnesium citrate tonight as i do not have melatonin.
i had to take a nap in middle of the day due to exhaustion but it took at least 2 hours to fall asleep.
perhaps it will ease up but i have been on benzos for around 6 years or more and have never been able to successfully withdrawal. when i was fully off valium for a number of weeks my mood became darker, anxiety filled, and extremely dysphoric. it felt dark and frightening. then upon starting up again of course i felt better with sufficient dose.
these days my withdrawal is much slower. from 10mg last year i'm now down to 2mg. last week it was 2.5mg. my mood is extremely poor though most of the time. i'm very withdrawn.
it's difficult to know what is my baseline anymore and what might be withdrawal but i know when i did a quick withdrawal for a day I initially felt better. Was easier to think and I was able to be more emotionally invested in things. the darkness and dysphoria would emerge the day after. though that initial feeling of better mental health was very promising. So i want to withdrawal from this mind numbing amnesia inducing garbage. my memory is mildly improving on lower dose.
these days have been rough. it's so difficult to speak to anyone. my depression is worse. very anti-social.
but i may be starting clomipramine tomorrow. perhaps it will make things more manageable. i really dont know what to expect.
> Lack of sleep can aggravate the withdrawal symptoms quite a bit, I think. I am finding melatonin to be quite a help with getting deeper more refreshing sleep.
>
> I do tend to wake up around 3 AM, but I usually can get back to sleep before long. This is actually a normal sleep pattern. There have been some articles recently about the historical evidence that humans always had a "first sleep" and a "second sleep" with several hours in between, until the invention of electric lighting.
>
> I think people who get stressed out about waking up in the middle of the night, are compounding the problem. It is kind of a pain, but an easy solution might be to go to bed earlier and schedule some "evening" activity for the time between first and second sleep, if you have trouble getting back to sleep right away. That way you could work with this sleep pattern instead of fighting it and ending up with not enough sleep total.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 25, 2013, at 6:54:29
In reply to never been able to successfully withdrawal valium » joe schmoe, posted by alexcanada on March 24, 2013, at 23:10:40
>
> perhaps it will ease up but i have been on benzos for around 6 years or more and have never been able to successfully withdrawal. when i was fully off valium for a number of weeks my mood became darker, anxiety filled, and extremely dysphoric. it felt dark and frightening. then upon starting up again of course i felt better with sufficient dose.
>
I have read some things which indicate it can take several months for the worst of the withdrawal symptoms to subside and then a year or more for total healing. So I wouldn't assume your baseline is the dysphoria you describe after a few weeks. I also read that some people don't stabilize between doses, they don't feel better till they have been off it completely for awhile, so how you feel during the taper is not indicative of how you will feel in the end.I had racing heartbeat this weekend for no apparent reason.
Been two weeks since my last dose as of today. Been gaining weight so I need to overcome these carb cravings.
Posted by herpills on March 25, 2013, at 8:06:35
In reply to Five days since my last klonopin (after 12 years), posted by joe schmoe on March 16, 2013, at 7:51:09
> Melatonin is helping me to get a deeper sleep, I wake up feeling more refreshed, even though I still wake up sometimes.
I think klonopin affects sleep in a negative way, I know I am sleeping much better since I got off klonopin. Glad to here melatonin is helping, can I ask what dose you take of it?
Posted by joe schmoe on March 25, 2013, at 16:53:08
In reply to Re: Five days since my last klonopin (after 12 years) » joe schmoe, posted by herpills on March 25, 2013, at 8:06:35
> > Melatonin is helping me to get a deeper sleep, I wake up feeling more refreshed, even though I still wake up sometimes.
>
> I think klonopin affects sleep in a negative way, I know I am sleeping much better since I got off klonopin. Glad to here melatonin is helping, can I ask what dose you take of it?
>
I take one-half of a 1 mg pill, so 0.5 mg, which is plenty for me.Have had increased nervousness as well as cognitive deficits today. Difficulty concentrating. Guess the withdrawal is entering "round two." Quite a ride.
Interestingly, Wikipedia notes:"Alcohol, even mild to moderate use, has been found to be a significant predictor of withdrawal failure, probably because of its cross tolerance with benzodiazepines."
But the Ashton Manual states:"Similarly with alcohol: a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."
At this point I am wondering if I need to give up beer or not.
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2013, at 18:18:02
In reply to Re: Five days since my last klonopin (after 12 years) » herpills, posted by joe schmoe on March 25, 2013, at 16:53:08
In all seriousness before I joined babble and used the computer I could start and stop meds at will with absolutely no side effects. As a fact once a doc said to take .5 of xanax and I took it for one week instead of the .25 that was taking and hated how I felt so went back down it dose and energy returned. Many times when happy I just stopped benzos no problems. Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on March 26, 2013, at 16:20:33
In reply to Re: Five days since my last klonopin (after 12 years), posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2013, at 18:18:02
Gonna go without my evening beers tonight and see how it affects sleep.
I happen to like strong beers so I usually have two Unibroues which are about 9% alcohol each. So they count as about 3.5 drinks for the two of them, going by standard measurements.
Seems to me I slept better in the past when I went without them. I do love the taste though, and the relaxation doesn't hurt either.
Posted by sigismund on March 27, 2013, at 0:50:41
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 26, 2013, at 16:20:33
I sleep better without alcohol but when I get to 5pm sometimes I do not care.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 27, 2013, at 6:42:06
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 26, 2013, at 16:20:33
> Gonna go without my evening beers tonight and see how it affects sleep.
Well I kept waking up anyway.I am going to stay off it for awhile and see how it affects things.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 28, 2013, at 6:42:34
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 27, 2013, at 6:42:06
Didn't have a beer last night again.
Well, I woke up once last night. I felt hot, so I turned down the heat and went back to sleep. Didn't wake up again.
I remember reading that one of the causes of insomnia is the room being too hot, since the body likes to lower its core temperature during sleep. I will try turning down the heat tonight before going to bed - it's been pretty cold out lately which has made the heat run a lot, which ends up heating up my bedroom more than the rest of the place.
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2013, at 20:15:28
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 28, 2013, at 6:42:34
I always sleep better in cool room. Sounds like it's going better? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on March 28, 2013, at 20:17:51
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2013, at 20:15:28
> I always sleep better in cool room. Sounds like it's going better? Phillipa
I just had a "hot flash" despite not having had a drink since Monday. Very odd.
I will try turning down the temp tonight and see how I sleep. No booze + melatonin + cool room = hopefully good sleep.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 29, 2013, at 6:48:02
In reply to Re: booze and insomnia » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on March 28, 2013, at 20:17:51
Well I woke up a couple of times last night but was able to get back to sleep quickly.
I have a feeling I am just going to have to deal with this for awhile.
Posted by Scars R. Stories on March 30, 2013, at 13:27:23
In reply to 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on December 8, 2012, at 14:26:40
I would "chip" it or bite chips off it when you need it, if I were you. I've been on and off Klonopin over the past 10 years, too. I'm on 8 mg now, though I often forget to take that many. When I was off it completely, I admit, I did NOT feel like myself and social interaction was INCREDIBLY painful, I felt like people were looking at me like I had toilet paper stuck to my hair or something :p ....
***I have read in a scholarly paper that for every year you take a benzo, it will take one month approx. more to "feel normal again"***
I don't know or care... I take them when I need them. Do try chipping though, and know that even small, small amounts of medication affect us. I chip Xanax sometimes and it works really well!
Posted by joe schmoe on March 30, 2013, at 13:38:52
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by Scars R. Stories on March 30, 2013, at 13:27:23
> I would "chip" it or bite chips off it when you need it, if I were you. I've been on and off Klonopin over the past 10 years, too. I'm on 8 mg now, though I often forget to take that many. When I was off it completely, I admit, I did NOT feel like myself and social interaction was INCREDIBLY painful, I felt like people were looking at me like I had toilet paper stuck to my hair or something :p ....
>
> ***I have read in a scholarly paper that for every year you take a benzo, it will take one month approx. more to "feel normal again"***
>
> I don't know or care... I take them when I need them. Do try chipping though, and know that even small, small amounts of medication affect us. I chip Xanax sometimes and it works really well!
Interesting. I actually feel really good today.My concern with taking small amounts of it would be that it would trigger some kind of withdrawal symptoms, which I have read in one or two places, but I am not convinced that it is accurate.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 30, 2013, at 15:28:39
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 29, 2013, at 6:48:02
Has anyone ever had their sense of taste impaired during klonopin taper/withdrawal? I haven't been able to taste much lately except salt and other really strong flavors like sour. Ordinary spices taste bland. I even had to salt some spicy Indian food to taste it.
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2013, at 20:27:20
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste, posted by joe schmoe on March 30, 2013, at 15:28:39
Joe what??? I lost my sense of smell & taste 9 years ago. I taste nothing now. But not from klonopin withdrawal. Taste & Smell Clinics say a virus attacked the neurons in nose. Where the infection control doc who treated me chronic lymes disease with biaxin xl says the biaxin did it. Put see if you can restore it as it's so horrible. No appetite why eat with no taste? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on March 30, 2013, at 20:41:20
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2013, at 20:27:20
> Joe what??? I lost my sense of smell & taste 9 years ago. I taste nothing now. But not from klonopin withdrawal. Taste & Smell Clinics say a virus attacked the neurons in nose. Where the infection control doc who treated me chronic lymes disease with biaxin xl says the biaxin did it. Put see if you can restore it as it's so horrible. No appetite why eat with no taste? Phillipa
I have had a lot of problems with sense of taste in the last few years. I posted about it before, in fact I looked it up and SSRI's increase the sense of "bitterness" for taste, so beers (hops) taste extremely bitter to me sometimes, other times not, which is very confusing.I am used to my sense of taste being messed up, lately I can taste some things (like salt, sour, sweet etc.) but not others (like oregano and thyme) which makes me salt all my food all the time.
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2013, at 21:07:09
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on March 30, 2013, at 20:41:20
Well this is a stange side effect of SRRI's? Post a Thread about this. How strange? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on March 31, 2013, at 8:26:10
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2013, at 21:07:09
> Well this is a stange side effect of SRRI's? Post a Thread about this.
I did.
Posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2013, at 17:55:24
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on March 31, 2013, at 8:26:10
Wow two years ago? Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on April 3, 2013, at 16:10:50
In reply to Re: Klon withdrawal and sense of taste » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on March 31, 2013, at 8:26:10
When you began your taper of klonopin, did you reduce same amt. everyday, or reduce say twice a week,etc? I think you reduced by 1/8 of the pill?
Posted by joe schmoe on April 3, 2013, at 16:44:37
In reply to How are you doing, and...? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on April 3, 2013, at 16:10:50
> When you began your taper of klonopin, did you reduce same amt. everyday, or reduce say twice a week,etc? I think you reduced by 1/8 of the pill?
Doing pretty well. I have gained some weight from overeating, not sure why I am doing that, a combination of hunger plus my sense of taste has been very dulled lately which makes me eat more food trying to get some sensation of flavor. Not sure if the sense of taste thing has anything to do with the klonopin withdrawal or not. I am taking zinc in case it is due to zinc deficiency.
As far as my tapering schedule, I unofficially began it at some point in fall 2012. By that I mean I often taper up or down as circumstances dictate - if I am not feeling stressed I tend to take 1.5 mg a day, if I am under stress I go up to 2 till things get better. So at some point this fall I tapered down to 1.5, which I have often done in the past, and I don't remember when I did it. I just drop from 1 mg AM/1 mg PM to 0.5 mg AM/1 mg PM in one go. I have never noticed any withdrawal symptoms from doing this.
Then in December I began my taper: (AM/PM in mg)
Baseline .5/1.0
Dec. 8 .5/.75
Dec. 23 .5/.5
Jan. 9 .5/.25
Jan. 23 .25/.25
Feb. 6 .25/.125
Feb. 16 .125/.125
Feb. 28 .125/0
Mar. 12 0/0
Apr. 3 Today :)
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