![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 26 to 50 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2012, at 20:33:55
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:23:45
> I totally agree with this.
>
> Fear -mongering and claiming someone could kill himself based on- nothing-- -is a very bad idea and certainly not helpful.
>
> Friends,
People kill themselves during witdrawal from psychotropic drugs. If you are considering being a discussant n this thread, I am requesting that you read the following.
Lou
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Educate/psychiatric_drugs_kids_who_kill.htm
Posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 22:48:49
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:21:43
> with all due respect schleprock, please don't make comments like "The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term."
>
> You have NO basis for saying that, and your opinion is completely without evidence.
>
> It's totally wrong to put that one someone else, particularly someone you don't know, and who, even if you did know him, would not be your patient, as you are not a doctor.I'm assuming you consider global warming to be a hoax as well.
Posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 23:19:47
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by hansi555 on November 25, 2012, at 16:33:51
Hansi, if your pdoc is okay with your taking benzos for anxiety, I certainly would do that.
I wondered if he had suggested any reason why your depression might be worse. Are there any external events in life that are bothering you?
Any pressures or stresses that you might not be noticing, but that have been building up at home or at work?
Often it seems like a drug may have caused something because of a correlation in time-- but as you know, correlation does not mean causation.
I would try to think about other possible reasons for your change in emotional state. I tend to doubt that a small dose of abilify over a relatively short period of time would have so strong an impact, particularly so quickly after a change in dose. The main thing that causes some middle term problems when you discontinue a drug you've used for a long time is that your neurotransmitters take time to return to normal. But I don't think 6 weeks is anywhere near long enough for that sort of reaction. I've used abilify as an adjunct to my main anti-depressant, and while initially had some issues with it, it's been working well for me for a long time.
My pdoc also suggested that I try lithium at one time, but for some reason, I never did. I have a great deal of confidence in him; he is a well-respected clinician in my area. I'm sure he would never suggest anything that would "screw [me] up"-- he also is very particular about use drugs that he feels full command of with patients. He has been cautious in using things he hasn't worked with extensively.
I would use the resources you have to hold on for the moment. Benzos are a good idea; and maybe meditating, or using calming techniques that you've learned could help-- I depends more on that stuff when I"m in a crisis. If you don't have any at hand, I would recommend a DBT group-- dialectal behavior therapy-- which focuses on ability to self-sooth, emotional regulation, and distress tolerance-- with practical and very helpful exercises and techniqes. Of course, that's a long-term approach, that you might consider for the future.
It's hard to predict that one will never have another depressive episode, even with ADs. Of course the chances are greatly improved, that you'll be stable, or recover much more quickly. But I would take advantage of whatever you can, to try to lengthen the times when you feel more okay. I'm hoping your pdoc can come up with some short-term solution-- maybe a tiny dose of another atypical antipsychotic like seroquel, or something else. (I'm not suggesting that-- only suggesting that he may have some ideas for a crisis situation.)
Whatever you do, don't give up. This will resolve itself. So you have to hang in there.
Posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 23:23:07
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:21:43
Use some deductive reasinging. It was the Abilify.
hansi555:"I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other
"First I got 6 great weeks after starting the Abilify and then it was like if the mood swings got "bigger": In the down periods I got deeper down, became energyless, apathic and in the normal/good periods I was fealing better than normal. Then I upped the dose to 5 mg for some days and it got worse, so I completely stopped 3 weeks ago, but the down periods just stayed and worsened and the normal periods stayed away. And now I have a really bad situation, it seems worse than ever before..."
Do you suggest for hansi555 to "wait this out"? That "this will get better by itself"? Do you actually think that will work? Has that strategy ever worked for anyone on this forum?
Come back after you've been stable on a single medication for 17 years and then suffer a breakdown because you gave another med a trial that ought to have been harmless- and then hear lie after lie that you were already that "screwed up", and medication had nothing to do with it.
Posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 23:46:22
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
hansi555, if you're suffering from anxiety as well as depression, and you told your pdoc this, you are most likely being misdiagnosed as being bi-polar, and that's why he's suggesting Lithium. Ask your doctor to explain how exactly anxiety is equivalent to mania to justify the use of Lithium in treating it.
Posted by Phil on November 26, 2012, at 8:13:11
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:21:43
> with all due respect schleprock, please don't make comments like "The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term."
>
> You have NO basis for saying that, and your opinion is completely without evidence.
>
> It's totally wrong to put that one someone else, particularly someone you don't know, and who, even if you did know him, would not be your patient, as you are not a doctor.
____________I agree and would like to add that for the last 30 years I've been on over 70 meds. Besides weight gain I've had a good run. I feel good. If all of these meds have screwed me up it's not evident to me or people that know me.
So to say that even one will do this this and this, prove it.
Posted by hansi555 on November 26, 2012, at 9:40:25
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Phil on November 26, 2012, at 8:13:11
The last couple of days have been somewhat better, but I am still very energyless and tired. I have agreed with my workplace not to work the next couple of weeks or more, I am simply too tired and down to do it.
Anxiety has never been a real issue to me and I really dont feel it is right now (but this Saturday I was really way down and scared a lot about it).
I am still confused but also thankfull by all the answers I have received on this thread. I cannot tell if Lithium is the right step to take next as I am a bit worried about the SE and comments from schleprock.I have decided to ramp up the Mirtazapin from 5 to 15 mg and maybe face out the Valdoxan completely (I think there are too many drugs in this cocktail), I could also maybe go higher on the Nortrptyline than the current 120 mg as I know I am in the low side of the therapeutic window.
I am still very puzzled about what triggered this whole thing this time. Was it really just the Abilify test or is my level of activities (work, family, hobbies) just too much? I did not feel stressed, it just came sneaking from behind
I am going to my pdoc in 2 days time...
Posted by baseball55 on November 26, 2012, at 18:23:02
In reply to all these decisions to make..., posted by hansi555 on November 26, 2012, at 9:40:25
If you have a mood disorder, the likelihood is that your mood just deteriorated for no particular reason except that you have a mood disorder. My mood would crash for weeks, even months, with no particular stressors at all. The value of DBT is that it isn't about finding causes. It's about learning to cope.
Posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 20:55:11
In reply to all these decisions to make..., posted by hansi555 on November 26, 2012, at 9:40:25
> The last couple of days have been somewhat better, but I am still very energyless and tired. I have agreed with my workplace not to work the next couple of weeks or more, I am simply too tired and down to do it.
> Anxiety has never been a real issue to me and I really dont feel it is right now (but this Saturday I was really way down and scared a lot about it).
> I am still confused but also thankfull by all the answers I have received on this thread. I cannot tell if Lithium is the right step to take next as I am a bit worried about the SE and comments from schleprock.
>
> I have decided to ramp up the Mirtazapin from 5 to 15 mg and maybe face out the Valdoxan completely (I think there are too many drugs in this cocktail), I could also maybe go higher on the Nortrptyline than the current 120 mg as I know I am in the low side of the therapeutic window.
>
> I am still very puzzled about what triggered this whole thing this time. Was it really just the Abilify test or is my level of activities (work, family, hobbies) just too much? I did not feel stressed, it just came sneaking from behind
>
> I am going to my pdoc in 2 days time...hansi555, was there any recent change in your level of activities? Is it reasonable to think that family or hobbies could make you this way? You just said that you did not feel stressed, while stress played a role in your original condition. You implied that this drop in your condition came out of nowhere. The only significant difference in your lifestyle was an Abilify trial, in which there was a period you felt worse when on the drug.
From your last post it seems like you were able to work out all the implications from the above facts. I feel very sorry that the rest of the people on this forum are having trouble with this (whith, and I never thought I'd be supporting him, the exception of Lou Pilder), especially taking into account the aspects of confusion that a heavy depressive state can bring. It is essential that you mention to your pdoc that you are worse off than before you started Abilify, and want to work on returning yourself to your prior state. I think it is a wise choice to start by increasing the dosages of the medications that were already helping you, just make sure that you are not surpassing the maximum suggested dosages. Certainly raise the nortriptyline to 150 mg; I do not know who suggested 120 mgs to you, it just doesn't make any sense when 50 mg tablets are readily available, and that 150 should be considered the typical dose if it is your primary antidepressent. This action should have been taken when it was discovered that you were at the "low end"; I doubt 30mg will push you out of the window, and could be very beneficial if you have a high sensitivity to medication, which you might have. I'd also question your doctor's suggestion of Lithium. Make him go into explicit detail about how this medication will "help" you, and be sure to remind him that you are not bi-polar.
Posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 21:51:55
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Phil on November 26, 2012, at 8:13:11
> > with all due respect schleprock, please don't make comments like "The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term."
> >
> > You have NO basis for saying that, and your opinion is completely without evidence.
> >
> > It's totally wrong to put that one someone else, particularly someone you don't know, and who, even if you did know him, would not be your patient, as you are not a doctor.
> ____________
>
> I agree and would like to add that for the last 30 years I've been on over 70 meds. Besides weight gain I've had a good run. I feel good. If all of these meds have screwed me up it's not evident to me or people that know me.
> So to say that even one will do this this and this, prove it.
>
>Well Phil, are you currently taking over 70 meds at this time? I'd find that rather hard to believe, so I'm going to assume that there were at least a few points in your life that you concluded that a particular medication might have been doing you a bit of harm, that your brain was telling you that something was causing a risk of biologically going beyond the limits of its best interests. That's why you would have to get off them. Could you conceive of what your life would be like today had you been forced to stay on a drug that was deteriorating your condition. Can you even dare contemplate where might end up. And I'm not sure what "a good run" means in the context of having been through over 70 medications in three years.
As I've implied before, I was once stable on a single antidepressent for 17 years (to treat chronic anxiety that was without any room for doubt triggered by caffeine, and may have been related to prior use of mescaline, which I had only taken twice in my life) until the Prince of Lies materialized into my life and convinced me that I'd feel even better on an alternate medication, one that I could stop at any time, one that wouldn't be "activating", one he claimed to have had success with in hundreds of cases. Four years later I'm struggling with the havoc and damage that this medication caused me (and yes, I know I have my self partially to blame for this, and consider this decision to be the biggest regret in my life beyond all magnitude.) I often wonder what my life would have been like today had I never ingested this drug, and never argue the conclusion that it would be something a lot more positive. At the very least, I'd have been doing something more productive than wasting my time on forums trying to get myself back to a stage where I can at least function in society again.
I think it's foolish to go under the assumption that people go to places like this for "proof" and statistical data as an adjunct to their psychiatric treatment. People come here because their scared and want to uncover more personal experiences with medication and mental illness than they can receive from their psychiatrists, who often cannot discuss mental illness and the effects of medication in the first person. Alternatly, respondents here offer first hand accounts and suggestions to questions posed by those who come here based on personal experience and\or anecdotal knowledge of mental illness from sources they can trust. hansi555's condition seemed to mirror my own negative experience with medication trials, and I offered advice consistant with my own experience. If Abilify was the trigger, andhansi555 is still suffering severe symptoms weeks after discontinuation of this med, I think the reference "long-term" would be appropriate. In fact, I've come across more than a few communiques from members of this forum that they've suffered long-term illness or exacerbation brought on by psychiatric treatment, be it ECT or medication, so i can't understand why my conclusions have become all of a sudden that far-fetched.
Phil, I don't think you will ever be able to understand how it is to go from 17 years of mental stability into the hell I've fallen into the past four years, knowing all the while that perhaps the lion's share of responsibility for it was my own, and that it could have been so easily avoided.
Posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 14:18:06
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 21:51:55
Posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 14:19:46
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 21:51:55
schleprock, I just spent 45 minutes writing a reply and somehow deleted it! I'll try it again later.
Posted by Willful on November 27, 2012, at 16:47:34
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 21:51:55
One problem with using other people's experience, to diagnose one's own situation, is precisely that each one is one-off. The limitation of "anecdotal evidence" is that it's just that-- one instance in which something happened, not many instances in which something happened in a way that suggests wide application to other situation.
Why certain things happened when we took certain drugs is our own issue-- only when there's evidence that it's a common, or widespread reaction is it even worth evaluation whether it might happen to A, B, C, D etc.
All of us may have had negative experiences with one or another drugs, or bad reactions, which is different from having long-term, or permanent damage from them. I wouldn't be on the drugs I'm on now if the first-line treatments had worked for me-- obviously. And there are tons of studies showing that various pdrugs work for some people and not others.
That's why I would want to be very very cautious in suggesting that someone else consider that what happened to me might have happened to them-- much less "must have"-- no matter how much it sounds like the same thing. I don't say it's wrong to tell your story or to suggest a parallel-- but when it comes to long-term and rare reactions-- I would be very very very loathe to lay that on someone-- because if nothing else, our fears can sometimes be just as damaging as our hopes.
I'd like to see us be constructive-- and suggesting that I had some horrible reaction to a drug-- which is rare or unique as far as I know-- is just not constructive.
I know you're trying to help schleprock, but why someone has a recurrence of depression is a very difficult thing to know-- we all know these things are often hard to locate, even to experts, even to us ourselves and our pdocs, as much as they can help us.
I'd like to see hansi find something that helps him out of this crisis- but I think intensifying anyone's fears of permanent damage isn't going to help-- especially since it most likely isn't the case--
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 27, 2012, at 17:15:20
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 27, 2012, at 16:47:34
> One problem with using other people's experience, to diagnose one's own situation, is precisely that each one is one-off. The limitation of "anecdotal evidence" is that it's just that-- one instance in which something happened, not many instances in which something happened in a way that suggests wide application to other situation.
>
> Why certain things happened when we took certain drugs is our own issue-- only when there's evidence that it's a common, or widespread reaction is it even worth evaluation whether it might happen to A, B, C, D etc.
>
> All of us may have had negative experiences with one or another drugs, or bad reactions, which is different from having long-term, or permanent damage from them. I wouldn't be on the drugs I'm on now if the first-line treatments had worked for me-- obviously. And there are tons of studies showing that various pdrugs work for some people and not others.
>
> That's why I would want to be very very cautious in suggesting that someone else consider that what happened to me might have happened to them-- much less "must have"-- no matter how much it sounds like the same thing. I don't say it's wrong to tell your story or to suggest a parallel-- but when it comes to long-term and rare reactions-- I would be very very very loathe to lay that on someone-- because if nothing else, our fears can sometimes be just as damaging as our hopes.
>
> I'd like to see us be constructive-- and suggesting that I had some horrible reaction to a drug-- which is rare or unique as far as I know-- is just not constructive.
>
> I know you're trying to help schleprock, but why someone has a recurrence of depression is a very difficult thing to know-- we all know these things are often hard to locate, even to experts, even to us ourselves and our pdocs, as much as they can help us.
>
> I'd like to see hansi find something that helps him out of this crisis- but I think intensifying anyone's fears of permanent damage isn't going to help-- especially since it most likely isn't the case--
>
> Willful,
One here IMHHO has a duty to post an adverse reaction that they had to a drug.
You see, if each person posted each bad reaction, then the questioner would have a better opportunity to make a more-informed decision as to take he drug or not.
Also, there is an accumulation of adverse reactions. Suppose one poster posted that they got TD from the drug and another a hert attack and another addiction and another diabetes nd such. Then the questioner could make a better decision as to if whatever it is to take the drug outweighs the risk. And if death is shown to be caued by the drug, then what benefit outweighs death?
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/abilify/death
>
>
Posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 18:47:04
In reply to Re: I am loosing it » schleprock, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 16:39:53
Are you free-lancing with your meds...adjusting dosages on your own. Did you double your Abilify dose for 3 days? Curious.
Posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 19:53:13
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 26, 2012, at 21:51:55
> > I agree and would like to add that for the last 30 years I've been on over 70 meds. Besides weight gain I've had a good run. I feel good. If all of these meds have screwed me up it's not evident to me or people that know me.
> > So to say that even one will do this this and this, prove it.
> >
> >
> Well Phil, are you currently taking over 70 meds at this time? I'd find that rather hard to believeAm I supposed to have an answer to that?
, so I'm going to assume that there were at least a few points in your life that you concluded that a particular medication might have been doing you a bit of harm, that your brain was telling you that something was causing a risk of biologically going beyond the limits of its best interests.
Yes, your honor. Meds, as we all should know, are a risk/benefit proposition. If I had issues with a med or, more often, felt it wasn't working, I would switch.
That's why you would have to get off them. Could you conceive of what your life would be like today had you been forced to stay on a drug that was deteriorating your condition. Can you even dare contemplate where might end up.
No. Nobody can force me to do sh*t. That's really not much to go on. Why were you forced or why did you allow that to happen? What do you have? How do you know where it's from? How do you know the future or are you awfulizing this beyond the facts or guesses? I have no idea where it might end up. No one does.
And I'm not sure what "a good run" means in the context of having been through over 70 medications in three years.I'm alive. That's what that means. Right now I'm stable. I just realized a few weeks ago that I'm not doing badly and need to remember that. I almost let bipolar become a lifestyle and it was all on me. I came to think that my disease must fascinate others. A little psychology gave me a big boost.
The good run didn't mean free and easy but looking back now I would do it the same way again.
I've been through hell the 29 years before I started meds and the 30 on them has been a sleigh ride. I've paid a price on meds but I honestly think, for me, they were my best option. Talk therapy could not stop sweating through my shirt in a comfortable office trying to talk to someone and it didn't help my stomach noises(loud). First couple of days on Amitriptyline and both problems vanished. That's when I started to learn about the unpleasant aspects of anti-cholonergic side effects.The best therapist I've ever had was my first. She worked with me for 6 months and it was like I had no idea how effed up I was. Anyway, she introduced me to the psychiatrist herself. She saw what I couldn't even see back then.
>
> As I've implied before, I was once stable on a single antidepressent for 17 years (to treat chronic anxiety that was without any room for doubt triggered by caffeine, and may have been related to prior use of mescaline, which I had only taken twice in my life)I used to do mescaline and every other drug, some in mass quantities. If any one them made my disease worse it was cocaine. I did quite a bit and the amazing high followed by the bone shaking crash. You are basically bipolar when on coke. Bipolar in training. Acid=psychotic. Mescaline was the best. Speed the worst.
until the Prince of Lies materialized into my life and convinced me that I'd feel even better on an alternate medication, one that I could stop at any time, one that wouldn't be "activating", one he claimed to have had success with in hundreds of cases. Four years later I'm struggling with the havoc and damage that this medication caused me (and yes, I know I have my self partially to blame for this, and consider this decision to be the biggest regret in my life beyond all magnitude.) I often wonder what my life would have been like today had I never ingested this drug, and never argue the conclusion that it would be something a lot more positive. At the very least, I'd have been doing something more productive than wasting my time on forums trying to get myself back to a stage where I can at least function in society again.
>
> I think it's foolish to go under the assumption that people go to places like this for "proof" and statistical data as an adjunct to their psychiatric treatment. People come here because their scared and want to uncover more personal experiences with medication and mental illness than they can receive from their psychiatrists, who often cannot discuss mental illness and the effects of medication in the first person. Alternatly, respondents here offer first hand accounts and suggestions to questions posed by those who come here based on personal experience and\or anecdotal knowledge of mental illness from sources they can trust. hansi555's condition seemed to mirror my own negative experience with medication trials, and I offered advice consistant with my own experience. If Abilify was the trigger, andhansi555 is still suffering severe symptoms weeks after discontinuation of this med, I think the reference "long-term" would be appropriate. In fact, I've come across more than a few communiques from members of this forum that they've suffered long-term illness or exacerbation brought on by psychiatric treatment, be it ECT or medication, so i can't understand why my conclusions have become all of a sudden that far-fetched.
>
> Phil, I don't think you will ever be able to understand how it is to go from 17 years of mental stability into the hell I've fallen into the past four years, knowing all the while that perhaps the lion's share of responsibility for it was my own, and that it could have been so easily avoided.This isn't your fault! I don't know any details of what you've done to try to get this under control. How do you know this is the meds fault? If one med kept me stable that long I'd build a shrine to the company. But the other stuff...
I want you and everybody wants you to get better. That, in the end, is the only important thing. Doesn't matter how it went wrong but how are we going to fix it.
Posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 20:02:33
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 19:53:13
Posted by schleprock on November 27, 2012, at 21:02:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Willful on November 27, 2012, at 16:47:34
> One problem with using other people's experience, to diagnose one's own situation, is precisely that each one is one-off. The limitation of "anecdotal evidence" is that it's just that-- one instance in which something happened, not many instances in which something happened in a way that suggests wide application to other situation.
>
> Why certain things happened when we took certain drugs is our own issue-- only when there's evidence that it's a common, or widespread reaction is it even worth evaluation whether it might happen to A, B, C, D etc.
>
> All of us may have had negative experiences with one or another drugs, or bad reactions, which is different from having long-term, or permanent damage from them. I wouldn't be on the drugs I'm on now if the first-line treatments had worked for me-- obviously. And there are tons of studies showing that various pdrugs work for some people and not others.
>
> That's why I would want to be very very cautious in suggesting that someone else consider that what happened to me might have happened to them-- much less "must have"-- no matter how much it sounds like the same thing. I don't say it's wrong to tell your story or to suggest a parallel-- but when it comes to long-term and rare reactions-- I would be very very very loathe to lay that on someone-- because if nothing else, our fears can sometimes be just as damaging as our hopes.
>
> I'd like to see us be constructive-- and suggesting that I had some horrible reaction to a drug-- which is rare or unique as far as I know-- is just not constructive.
>
> I know you're trying to help schleprock, but why someone has a recurrence of depression is a very difficult thing to know-- we all know these things are often hard to locate, even to experts, even to us ourselves and our pdocs, as much as they can help us.
>
> I'd like to see hansi find something that helps him out of this crisis- but I think intensifying anyone's fears of permanent damage isn't going to help-- especially since it most likely isn't the case--
>
>
>
>Yes, I understand what you're saying. But what I find most objectionable is that 99% (not intended as a statistic) of the responses a case like hansi555's will receive will be assertions like "it's just a coincidence" or "it's some form of unconscious stress" or "this is just simply the natural course of the illness you were already suffering from." Perhaps this percentage never had a bad experience with a medication, or suffered such a severe decline following a med trial, or, most importantly, do not have and\or do not believe in thepossibility that one may suffer from a biological sensitivity that could cause a reaction similar to Abilify (or any drug) as hansi555's. I won't argue that such a condition is extremely rare, but I will argue against the opinion that such conditions shouldn't be recognized or discussed simply because not enough people suffer them. Because most of the discussions regarding negative reactions to medication revolve about situations where either (a.)medications stop working and the patient is back at square one or (b.) one had a bad reaction to a med that cleared up over a short period of time or not long after discontinuation, hansi555's case, in which was presented such a drastic decline in condition as compared to their pre-Abilify period, sticks out.
Statistically, what happened to me and hansi555 should never have occured, but they have. Hiding behind statistics and developing treatments (or in this case merely providing support) according to what is commonly prescribed to the majority will not accomplish anything. Personal experience has embedded me in such a perspective. The psychiatrist I hold responsible (though not in absence of my own guilt) for my present condition (Ronald R.) hid behind statistics (as I assume most psychiatrists do) and to the end subjected a proxy perspective that I was leaving him in no different a condition when I arrived. There is no greater insult than to insist to someone that things aren't as bad as they seem when the fact is that they are worse than you can imagine. hansi555 is going through a very tough time right now, and should be taken more seriously if they have a condition that needs a treatment slightly more adequate than simply a prescription for 1.5 mg of clonazepam and having their case passed off to a clinic.
Posted by schleprock on November 27, 2012, at 21:54:58
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 19:53:13
I would say that having three panic attacks (one which resulted in me almost losing consciousness and collapsing to floor, not to mention the trip to the hospital) within a couple of weeks of starting a new medication would make the culprit obvious. Then came the atenolol and the clonazepam dependence and long-term agoraphobia, then the 9 months after stopping those drugs of the illusion that I just might be back to normal, then the last six months of back and forth melancholic depression hell and probable overmedication. There is absolutely no way I will ever be convinced that any medication other than Nortriptyline has and will continue to cause me seemingly irrevocable harm.
And I can never release myself from accountability for this. I was feeling perfectly fine, and had no need for any drug augmentation, let alone the supplantation that I regretably agreed to. All I had to do was say "no," I'm fine. Such a simple thing to do. But like so many other people on this thread, I was under the illusion (one could even say a sort of "guarantee" by Dr. R) that a little experimentation couldn't hurt. That was tragically not the case for me, and every day I have to live with the consequences of my own mistake and delusion that the human brain, in all cases, has a miraculous resilliancy when it comes to the chemicals it absorbs.
Make no mistake, we live in the worst of all possible worlds.
Posted by Phillipa on November 27, 2012, at 23:04:42
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 27, 2012, at 21:54:58
I have no regrets on taking benzos never escalated dose my regret is ever taking an ad as none really ever did a thing but for first three months make me sick and then probably was back to prior feeling which was good after the initial three months. Now the monkey on my back is a dumb SSRI still with low dose benzo. But that is okay. Also should have never given up beer as felt fantastic with that and a tiny old 1.25mg of xanax. At times no meds or any alchohol either didn't need nor want them. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on November 28, 2012, at 7:08:30
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Phil, posted by schleprock on November 27, 2012, at 21:54:58
schleprock, Want to know what my first psychiatrist said to me when starting me on meds? 'We' should have this taken care of in 6 months.
Posted by hansi555 on November 28, 2012, at 8:12:11
In reply to Re: I am loosing it » hansi555, posted by Phil on November 27, 2012, at 18:47:04
> Are you free-lancing with your meds...adjusting dosages on your own. Did you double your Abilify dose for 3 days? Curious.
My pdoc initially suggested 5 mg and I looked it up and decided to start on 2,5 mg which I stayed at for 7-8 weeks, then the swings between bad and normal returned and I went to 5 mg for a few days before I discontinued it completely.
Please remember that I during the last 5 years never got to a satisfying level of normal/good, this is why we tried Abilify and before that Lamictal.
Posted by Phil on November 28, 2012, at 12:14:08
In reply to Re: I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 28, 2012, at 8:12:11
Abilify made me rapid cycle. I wasn't on it very long.'
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2012, at 14:03:00
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » schleprock, posted by Phil on November 28, 2012, at 7:08:30
> schleprock, Want to know what my first psychiatrist said to me when starting me on meds? 'We' should have this taken care of in 6 months.
>Mine told me that 85% of people respond to one of two drugs - TCA or MAOI. At the time, that sounded like pretty good odds.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2012, at 14:08:09
In reply to Re: I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 28, 2012, at 8:12:11
> > Are you free-lancing with your meds...adjusting dosages on your own. Did you double your Abilify dose for 3 days? Curious.
>
> My pdoc initially suggested 5 mg and I looked it up and decided to start on 2,5 mg which I stayed at for 7-8 weeks, then the swings between bad and normal returned and I went to 5 mg for a few days before I discontinued it completely.
> Please remember that I during the last 5 years never got to a satisfying level of normal/good, this is why we tried Abilify and before that Lamictal.I hope you weren't required to discontinue the Abilify in order to take Lamictal. Taking the two drugs together makes a good treatment for some people, and it makes little sense not to combine them as soon as either proves inadequate.
- Scott
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