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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mtdewcmu on July 10, 2011, at 19:49:38
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai, posted by bearfan on July 10, 2011, at 18:55:19
> There already is a new maoi in the works; it called tririma
> No diet restrictions and as strong as the traditional ones. Its a strong Rima.That sounds almost too good to be true. Which part of Tririma eliminates the tyramine effect? The fact that it's reversible? Or the fact that it's selective for MAO-A? Wikipedia says MAO-A breaks down serotonin and norepinephrine, but MAO-B breaks down dopamine. So wouldn't Tririma sacrifice some effects on dopamine?
Posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2011, at 19:51:03
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai, posted by bearfan on July 10, 2011, at 18:55:19
Bearfan an oral med or patch? I can see the patch not requiring diet restriction but a pill goes through the digestive system? When's it due out? Phillipa
Posted by bearfan on July 10, 2011, at 20:14:21
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai » bearfan, posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2011, at 19:51:03
As far as I know its oral. Its similar to moclobermide but much stronger and taken one a day instead. Its in stage 2 trials do it should be availible a year or two. Although it wouldn't be a first line treatment
Posted by bearfan on July 10, 2011, at 20:15:51
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai » bearfan, posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2011, at 19:51:03
As far as I know its oral. Its similar to moclobermide but much stronger and taken one a day instead. Its in stage 2 trials do it should be availible a year or two. Although it wouldn't be a first line treatment
Posted by jhj on July 11, 2011, at 6:24:10
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai, posted by bearfan on July 10, 2011, at 20:15:51
One or Two years? i think you are too optimisticjhj
Posted by joe schmoe on July 12, 2011, at 15:52:11
In reply to Day 10 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 10, 2011, at 12:39:25
Taking the Viibryd at night has gotten rid of the dizziness. Furthermore, my sense of taste has improved again - beers and dark chocolate taste pretty good, not too bitter. The longer between taking the medicine and tasting the food, the better, as far as bitterness is concerned.
Three more nights (including tonight) of the 20mg and then, onto the 40mg...where I'll really find out what this medicine feels like.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 15, 2011, at 13:47:47
In reply to Day 12 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 12, 2011, at 15:52:11
Have been having trouble sleeping. I never had this when starting an ssri, then again I normally took them in the morning. I think a lot of these effects are probably temporary. Today I take my first 40mg pill. I don't want to do it during the day as I have a lot of work to do and don't want to risk the dizziness and fatigue returning. I will probably take it earlier in the evening though than I have been. Once I get a day when I can afford to experiment I will try taking it in the morning again - maybe I am used to the medicine enough for the dizziness to be gone (or maybe it was a parting present from going off Celexa).
Posted by iforgotmypassword on July 18, 2011, at 15:37:27
In reply to Re: Day 10 of Viibryd and new moai » bearfan, posted by mtdewcmu on July 10, 2011, at 19:49:38
that the 5-ht1a agonism is actually there, despite the research otherwise
Posted by joe schmoe on July 18, 2011, at 16:08:20
In reply to the dizziness might be a good sign, posted by iforgotmypassword on July 18, 2011, at 15:37:27
Have had several side effects. Loose bowels for a day or two at 20 mg, but that seems to have subsided. Still have some difficulty getting to sleep, and have had some bouts of restless legs. Dizziness and fatigue have virtually disappeared, so I am taking the medicine earlier and earlier in the day again in the hopes it will make it easier for me to get to sleep. Once asleep, I sleep well.
My sense of taste seems good (beers aren't too bitter) despite taking the medicine earlier in the day.
Have been on 40mg for the past three days (and now today) and so far, so good.
I still have a strong appetite for sweets and carbs and have not lost any weight. On the other hand, sexual thoughts and sensations are much improved over Celexa.
Posted by bearfan on July 18, 2011, at 18:41:08
In reply to Viibryd Day 18, posted by joe schmoe on July 18, 2011, at 16:08:20
Joe, I'm about on Day 18 as well. I've had similar side effects including loose stools and the occasional gas. It's not as bad as some other medications and its still noticeable and hasn't completely subsided. Sleep for me, has been better. I have been taking it right before I go to bed because it kind of makes me tired and dizzy. What positive things have you noticed? I do notice somewhat of a relief on anxiety, although my libido hasn't come back in full force like I was hoping (partly because i'm tapering town). Another thing I kind of noticed that I feel like I have a bit more of an emotional response to things. I don't stay in that neutral state like the traditional SSRIs. I can think of things in my head better about life events and situations without it just being 'blocked out' if that makes sense. Did you notice any improvement in social and executive functioning? I remember Lexapro made it more difficult to concentrate. While Effexor, Cymbalta, and to a lesser extent, Prozac helped.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 19, 2011, at 22:19:13
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by bearfan on July 18, 2011, at 18:41:08
> I have been taking it right before I go to bed because it kind of makes me tired and dizzy.
I am starting to get some fatigue and dizziness again now that I have been on the 40mg dose for a few days. Hopefully it will wear off as it did at the lower doses.
>What positive things have you noticed?Great increase in sexual sensation. Very good mood a lot of the time.
>I do notice somewhat of a relief on anxiety, although my libido hasn't come back in full force like I was hoping (partly because i'm tapering town).
Tapering down? You are taking another drug at the same time?
>Another thing I kind of noticed that I feel like I have a bit more of an emotional response to things. I don't stay in that neutral state like the traditional SSRIs. I can think of things in my head better about life events and situations without it just being 'blocked out' if that makes sense. Did you notice any improvement in social and executive functioning?
I am leading a fairly isolated life at the moment so I can't really judge things like social functioning. I also take clonazepam for social anxiety, so this drug is solely for depression.
Posted by SLS on July 20, 2011, at 5:57:57
In reply to Viibryd Day 18, posted by joe schmoe on July 18, 2011, at 16:08:20
Thanks, guys, for sharing your experiences with Viibryd.
- Scott
Posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by SLS on July 20, 2011, at 5:57:57
Yes, thank you all very much. And I ask out of my own personal decision as of yesterday to drop Nardil and try viibryd in two weeks that you continue with your experience. Could you also go a little more into any positive changes that you have seen or if any at all from the time of beginning viibryd? I have become frustrated to the point I can't deal with it anymore about the side effect of a spiking hr while standing since I have been on Nardil. I realize I could try different additional meds, but my bp has also been made lower by Nardil so even if I took something like a beta blocker for my hr it wouldn't increase my bp, and at this point I've just got to come to the understanding that Nardil for some reason is always going to have this negative side effect, and without adding more meds and trials and time and still not knowing for sure I will find an answer, i just have to drop it for the physical side effects and hope that the 2 week washout period isn't too killer, and that maybe something else will help the anxiety/depression without changing me so dramatically physically. Just know that people are interesting in your posts, and it can be very beneficial for anyone thinking about trying viibryd. We really don't have much else to go on as far as actual reports from people trying this med.
Thanks Again,
Mantus
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:39:15
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
> Yes, thank you all very much. And I ask out of my own personal decision as of yesterday to drop Nardil and try viibryd in two weeks that you continue with your experience. Could you also go a little more into any positive changes that you have seen or if any at all from the time of beginning viibryd? I have become frustrated to the point I can't deal with it anymore about the side effect of a spiking hr while standing since I have been on Nardil. I realize I could try different additional meds, but my bp has also been made lower by Nardil so even if I took something like a beta blocker for my hr it wouldn't increase my bp, and at this point I've just got to come to the understanding that Nardil for some reason is always going to have this negative side effect, and without adding more meds and trials and time and still not knowing for sure I will find an answer, i just have to drop it for the physical side effects and hope that the 2 week washout period isn't too killer, and that maybe something else will help the anxiety/depression without changing me so dramatically physically. Just know that people are interesting in your posts, and it can be very beneficial for anyone thinking about trying viibryd. We really don't have much else to go on as far as actual reports from people trying this med.
The low BP and spiking heart rate when standing are two sides of the same problem. When you stand up, your body has to compensate for the natural drop in BP. Nardil is inhibiting your normal responses, so your heart beats rapidly to compensate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_intolerance
A beta blocker would be pushing you in the wrong direction, because it would be inhibiting your BP even more. You would want an adrenergic agonist rather than an antagonist. I don't know what drugs are safe to add to Nardil, but you could ask your doctor about options or look up research on the subject. The problem can be documented with a simple test in the doctor's office. The pdoc might not have a BP cuff, but he/she could take your pulse and feel it jump when you stand.
If you stop Nardil, you'll have to go through a lengthy wash-out period, followed by another one if you want to restart it.
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:47:17
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
This is maybe a better article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_hypotension
The other one is talking about some rare disease. This article treats it as a symptom that can be caused by MAOIs.
"In addition, the heart rate should also be measured for both positions. A significant increase from supine to standing may indicate a compensatory effort by the heart to maintain cardiac output."
Posted by joe schmoe on July 20, 2011, at 15:43:05
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18 » mantus, posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:47:17
Have been feeling some anxiety the last few days ( I've been on 40mg since day 15) and have been taking extra klonopin to counteract it.
I had really bad initial anxiety last time I started up Celexa again (lasted like 19 days or something), which never happened with Celexa before. Strange. I assume this is just another temporary effect of establishing a steady state at the 40mg dose. If I read the literature correctly, Viibryd steady state is achieved in about 3 days which is right about when my anxiety increased (three days after moving up to 40mg).
Side effects are just irritants when you know they are temporary and will pass with time, which I am sure this one is.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
In reply to Viibryd Day 20, posted by joe schmoe on July 20, 2011, at 15:43:05
I think I am getting used to the 40mg dosage now. Side effects are mostly gone, except for some difficulty getting to sleep, still some dizziness/disorientation at times - nothing major, but I am not sure I would want to take it and then go to work, better to take it with dinner. Side effects do seem to be fading with time though. No restless legs yesterday, I usually get them 3-4 hours after my dose.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 21:25:45
In reply to Viibryd Day 24, posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
Forgot to add I still feel some anxiety at times. Nothing like the horrible anxiety I had last time I started Celexa though. That was so bad I ended up switching generic clonazepam brands (to Teva from Mylan) because it felt like the Mylan clonazepam was doing nothing.
Posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2011, at 21:54:43
In reply to Viibryd Day 24, posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
Think it will work? Any comparison meds? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on July 25, 2011, at 14:03:10
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 24 » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2011, at 21:54:43
> Think it will work? Any comparison meds? Phillipa
Well my mood is very good. Main problem has been difficulty sleeping on some nights, but I also have been having some external factors involved (people with chainsaws trimming trees outside my window in the morning, pets waking me up due to fear of thunderstorms, repaving of the road outside, one thing after another). I'm a night owl so when obnoxiously loud things happen in the morning it always cuts into my sleep time and wakes me up, and I can't get back to sleep.I don't plan to judge this med till I've been on it a couple of months - if I went off Celexa that long I would normally fall into a suicidal depression. In terms of side effects though, it is easily tolerable so far, and sexually there is no comparison, at least so far.
I have tried the other sex-friendly meds (Wellbutrin and Serzone, back when it was available) and Viibryd is far more tolerable than either of them in terms of anxiety/anger or sedation, respectively.
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2011, at 19:49:24
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 24 » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on July 25, 2011, at 14:03:10
Other than the external problems sounds encouraging. Phillipa
Posted by Chris O on July 26, 2011, at 5:09:09
In reply to Day 6 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 6, 2011, at 21:12:33
>
> I'm curious what Viibryd feels like to someone starting it "clean." For most people I suspect it will be like it is for me: as much about stopping the previous antidepressant as it is about starting Viibryd.Chris, here. I just started Viibryd "clean" last night. So far (I know, it's only 10mg, but I'm having some side effects), I've got insomina, diarrhea, a bit of anxiety, and dry mouth. I actually felt better before taking the 10mg. I'm pretty treatment resistant w/the SSRIs though, so I'm going to give this a go, or it's onto the Nardil. My last trail was Serzone, 1200mg a day, for about 6 months. I've been off that for 3 months. Let's keep our fingers crossed for this stuff.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: Day 6 of Viibryd, posted by Chris O on July 26, 2011, at 5:09:09
I have had two brief episodes recently of chest pain, both late at night or early in the morning when going to bed or getting up. Could be heartburn, but it's a kind of pain I last felt while on Wellbutrin, where I used to get long lasting chest tightness and pain along with anxiety. Hopefully this is just another passing side effect.
Had difficulty sleeping again.
Posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
In reply to Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
I just have to continue to thank you all for your willingness to talk about your trial. I know that if some of my other physical issues go away, Viibryd will be my next choice and I am extremely interested in seeing how real people respond to it. I again thank you, and hope that you can continue your tril with updates until maybe being on 40mg for a month or so? I know you don't want to keep talking about it forever. :)
Thanks,
Mantus
Posted by joe schmoe on July 27, 2011, at 15:21:47
In reply to Re: Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
Had a good night's sleep last night for a change.
In the course of starting Viibryd, I have been cycling on and off tongkat ali and maca as usual. They are still effective, i.e. better sexual sensation and libido when on them than off; they are just more effective than they would have been if I was on Celexa. So I don't think Viibryd by itself is going to get me back to a normal sexual state.
Of course, I am middle aged, so I don't expect to feel 25 again just from quitting celexa, even if I hadn't taken antidepressants for ten years. And I do think the celexa did some permanent damage; I have been off it before, on no AD at all for months at a time, and sexual sensations/libido never returned to what I remember before. I can't expect Viibryd to be better than no AD at all. It's not a sexual stimulant after all, it's an AD. So for those trying it, who see some return of sexual sensations and libido but still want more, I would encourage you to experiment with the various sex-boosters mentioned in this thread and elsewhere.
Also I cycled back onto tongkat ali and maca in the last few days after a week or so off them, and I notice that my sense of taste is affected! Diet sodas now seem sickly sweet while beers have gone from bitter to good-tasting. So I think these herbs or whatever the proper term for them is, have some beneficial effects other than sexual. I think they also can work to correct the oversensitivity to bitter tastes that has been plaguing me the past six months, ruining beer tasting off and on. Don't know why I didn't think of it before, but it is possible my taste experiences have been linked to whether I was "on" or "off" in the herb cycling.
This probably isn't an issue unless you like to consume bitter foods like beer, dark chocolate, coffee, grapefruit etc. but if you find they taste worse on ssris, well, it's no accident. As I mentioned in the first post in this thread, this study found ssris greatly increase the taste sensation of bitterness.
Maybe these supplements are the answer to that problem. I will try to keep track and correlate beer taste with supplement cycling and see.
By the way I have gained weight on Viibryd. Seems to make me hungrier most of the time, especially for sweets. I'm going to have to really watch it if I don't want to balloon up - losing weight will be no joke if this continues.
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