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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:47:32
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 19:44:29
> >
> > What is keeping you from going to individual or group therapy or both? At some point, we simply need to face our demons, or we may never have a chance at a good life.
>
>
> I need and want therapy, but I can't afford it. Certainly not now. I need someone with a slidding fee scale which is not easy to find.Might you be eligible for "charity care" at a hospital? I would go to any hospital and see if they have any clinics or programs that would provide affordable care. If not they might suggest a program in the community.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:51:25
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 5:13:23
Hi 49er.
Was your depression recurrent, or was it a first-time episode?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 6:15:56
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by bleauberry on October 15, 2010, at 17:23:46
> > > I think the whole thing sounds reasonable to me.
> > Why?
> Why not?
I guess that about sums it up.
- Scott
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 8:15:08
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » 49er, posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:51:25
> Hi 49er.
>
> Was your depression recurrent, or was it a first-time episode?
>
>
> - ScottIt was recurrent.
In thinking over what happened, I had undiagnosed learning disabilities that I never got any help for until I was an adult. So of course, when you're struggling with tasks that most average people would not struggle with, you're going to feel stupid if you don't know what is going on. That definitely leads to depression when you feel stupid and don't know why.
I am convinced that if someone had explained to me what was going on and showed me how to compensate for my issues, I would have avoided the psych med treadmill.
Sadly, these meds greatly worsened my LD issues over time and is one of the major reasons I decided to go off of them.
49er
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 8:16:20
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 8:15:08
The above message is a response to SLS. Sorry for not making that clear.
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 8:21:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:36:41
>
> Stupid? Could be the drugs. Could be the illness progressing. Cognitive impairments due to depression tend to worsen as one ages and the illness is left untreated.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
I am confused by this point because Maxime is being treated and on several meds. I know causation doesn't equal correlation but it seems logical that her complaints of cognitive impairment are due to the meds.
49er
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 8:44:06
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 8:21:55
> >
> > Stupid? Could be the drugs. Could be the illness progressing. Cognitive impairments due to depression tend to worsen as one ages and the illness is left untreated.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott,
>
> I am confused by this point because Maxime is being treated and on several meds. I know causation doesn't equal correlation but it seems logical that her complaints of cognitive impairment are due to the meds.The point regarding the existence of cognitive deficits associated with major depressive disorder is fact. Whether or not Maxime falls into this category, I can't know for sure. I guess we'll find out if she decides to discontinue her medications whether or not they are responsible for any cognitive impairments.
By the way, why would it be logical that it is the medication rather than the illness producing the cognitive impairments reported by Maxime?
I am sure of nothing.
- Scott
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 9:18:11
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » 49er, posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 8:44:06
> > >
> > > Stupid? Could be the drugs. Could be the illness progressing. Cognitive impairments due to depression tend to worsen as one ages and the illness is left untreated.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I am confused by this point because Maxime is being treated and on several meds. I know causation doesn't equal correlation but it seems logical that her complaints of cognitive impairment are due to the meds.
>
> The point regarding the existence of cognitive deficits associated with major depressive disorder is fact. Whether or not Maxime falls into this category, I can't know for sure. I guess we'll find out if she decides to discontinue her medications whether or not they are responsible for any cognitive impairments.
>
> By the way, why would it be logical that it is the medication rather than the illness producing the cognitive impairments reported by Maxime?
>
> I am sure of nothing.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
I don't disagree that cognitive deficits can be associated with depression. But in my opinion, far too may researchers blame side effects from meds that cause cognitive impairment on the illness. They simply refuse to believe that the drugs can cause harm.
Actually, even if she discontinues her medication slowly, she won't know for quite awhile what the cognitive effects are due from. I finished my taper in June and I am still dealing with cognitive issues that are definitely not related to depression. My guess is its the insomnia that is a withdrawal issue that is causing the problems but who knows.
They have improved by the way but are definitely still an issue.
Well, when someone is on several meds and is complaining of cognitive impairments, that is a logical place to look. This isn't just a a psych issue as how many times, do we hear of senior citizens on several meds being diagnosed with dementia only to find that when they were taken off the meds, everything was fine
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 9:25:13
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 9:18:11
> My guess is its the insomnia that is a withdrawal issue that is causing the problems but who knows.
Good point.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on October 16, 2010, at 10:38:19
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 4:19:18
>
>
> I am not on disability, I am working. And even when I was not working (the past 18 months), I wasn't on disability.
>
> I'm in Canada so our health laws are somewhat similar from Province to Province. But Canada Health Care's system has never included the payment of psychologists because they are not medical doctors. However I can use my health card to see my psychiatrist.
>That surprises me. I was under the impression that because Canada had more of a socialist health care system, it would cover just about everything. That's too bad. I wonder what it's like over in Europe.
Hang in there!
Posted by morgan miller on October 16, 2010, at 10:46:10
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 9:18:11
49er, were you on Lamictal at one point? What meds caused your cognitive impairment?
I may have some things for you to try, especially if you were on Lamictal. One of them being a good brand of SJW like Perika, Serofin(New Chapter), or Kira. Someone I know and I are both experiencing some cognitive improvement on SJW. I bet you've tried it already though. I will give you a list of others if you are interested.
Morgan
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 11:24:20
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » 49er, posted by morgan miller on October 16, 2010, at 10:46:10
> 49er, were you on Lamictal at one point? What meds caused your cognitive impairment?
>
> I may have some things for you to try, especially if you were on Lamictal. One of them being a good brand of SJW like Perika, Serofin(New Chapter), or Kira. Someone I know and I are both experiencing some cognitive improvement on SJW. I bet you've tried it already though. I will give you a list of others if you are interested.
>
> MorganHi Morgan,
Thanks.
I was on Adderall, Wellbutrin, Doxepin, and Remeron. It could be the insomnia I am dealing with as a WD issue is the main culprit. Who knows?
I would be interested in your suggestions but right now, my system is too sensitive as it goes into overdrive causing insomnia. I am taking fish oil and a basic multivitamin and even that may be too much. But not taking it leaves me more miserable so I have decided to take extra vitamin C which helps.
Last night, I had a great night of sleep so hopefully, it will continue.
Thanks. Glad SJW is working for you.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:34:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 23:38:10
> Mine was also recently checked then hormone doseage changed and that changes the thyroid levels according to both endo and hormone doc. So I'm thinking I need to get mine rechecked. Maxie I'd freak out literally if I gained all that weight. I honestly don't know what to say about that. And I know food with some isn't the reason. I'm sorry. Phillipa
Thank you Phillipa. I appreciate your post.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:37:44
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 13:31:19
> Maxime, I apologize for basically saying that you are the cause of your appearance and problems and not your medications. I realize now that I should have been a little more sensitive and thoughtful in my post. I do think a few of your medications could be causing some problems and it is a good idea to take as few medications as possible, as long as the ones you are on are helping you and keeping you safe.
>
> I still stand by some of the things I said regarding long term improvement and achieving true happiness.
>
> Good luck with the changes you make!
>
> MorganThanks Morgan. Actually what I like about you is that you are straight shooter. You don't mince words. So no need to apologise.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:46:46
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 14:09:19
Hi FB. My endo thinks the weight gain is all from eating. I assure you, it's not. I feel so embarrassed when I see her because I feel like she is judging me.
My friend has known me for years now. She knows how bad I have been. When she said it, she was referring that something was wrong inside my body. She didn't I ate too much food to gain 65 pounds. She was concerned about my health actually both mental and physical.
I know that now isn't the best time to play around with my meds. I finally have a job and I would hate to lose it as a result of being so depressed that I couldn't do my job.
Maybe now isn't the time to try to reduce my meds. Maybe I should wait a few months and start then. My job is a contract and it ends in December. I hope it will be renewed but if it's not, I will be out of a job once again. Again, this would not be the best time to be off my meds.
Maybe I will make little changes.
Thank you for letting me bounce my thoughts off you.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:55:01
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by bleauberry on October 15, 2010, at 17:23:46
I know you don't see eye to eye on many things which is okay. I appreciate and respect *both* of your opinions. I find it helpful to hear two sides of the coin.
So please keep posting your thoughts/ideas here, but don't argue. I like the fact that you both have different views on meds etc.and I take both of your recommendations to heart. Different view points is what I like about PB.
Hugs for you both. xoxo
Maxie
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:04:49
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 22:36:57
Yes, I think my pdoc will brainstorm with me. I know he doesn't like me on so many meds, but if they are working he doesn't mind. I know they are working to a degree, but I am still very depressed.
I know that I will never be med free. I can accept that. I just want to lessen the amount of meds I am on. My goal would be to stay on the Adderall XR and the Trileptal. But maybe I would have to be on a AD, I don't know.
Maxie
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:10:35
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by SLS on October 15, 2010, at 12:57:02
> > Please Maxie, don't unless you have a real solid plan with your doctor.
>
> I agree.
>
> Maxime: I know that quite a few drugs give you hyperprolactinemia. When I was on desipramine, I gained no weight at all. Have you tried desipramine? -> Never mind. I searched the archives and see that you had lactation as a reaction to desipramine in 2005.
>
>
> - Scott
>Hi Scott, it's funny. Meds that once made me lactate don't anymore. I take Largactil to help me sleep (yup, weight gainer) not every night, but around 4 nights a week. Although my prolactin level has my endo freaked out, I don't lactate on it anymore. So maybe I would try desipramine again and see what happens in that area. Although I had *very* urinary retention and I had to go to the hospital and they used a catheter (sp?).
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:15:53
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:47:32
I did go through the hospital in 2008. The problem is, they can only see people on short term basis (9 weeks). I need something long term especially since it takes me so long to trust people. I know that I badly need therapy and not getting access to makes me sad because I am ready for therapy, whereas maybe 5 years ago I didn't think I need a therapist.Thanks Scott!
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:44:58
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:46:46
Somewhere in this thread of posts, someone asked me I had tried Lyrica as a mood stabiliser. I can't find the post! Yes, I have tried both Neurontin and Lyrica and they both gave me very bad edema. I had to go into the hospital after being on Neurontin for a short time. In addition to the edema, they both made me feel really trippy man.
Posted by Abby Cunningham on October 16, 2010, at 20:07:00
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:44:58
Maxime, I gained a whole lot of weight (for me) while on Elavil, a cousin to the tricyclic you're on. First time I ever gained weight! I was very skinny before. this was years ago and I had to come off it due to supravenricular tachycardia. Can't take any tricyclic because of that.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 20:34:27
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Abby Cunningham on October 16, 2010, at 20:07:00
> Maxime, I gained a whole lot of weight (for me) while on Elavil, a cousin to the tricyclic you're on. First time I ever gained weight! I was very skinny before. this was years ago and I had to come off it due to supravenricular tachycardia. Can't take any tricyclic because of that.
Were you able to lose the weight afterwards? I have a feeling that the weight is going to be hard to get rid off.
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2010, at 21:25:07
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » SLS, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:10:35
Maxie just a thought when you mentioned lactation first thing my endo asked me was if I did as had told him of a microadenoma of pituitary that had shown up 6 years ago on MRI. No I didn't lactate but he felt it was time to check the microadenoma again so less than a year ago had another MRI of pituitary and still micros not macro which would cause lactation and not be good would have had to be removed. Just had a brain MRI for the lack of taste and smell and micro still. No changes. But Have you ever had an MRI of pituitary? I seriously am not sure of the symptoms of micro or macro. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on October 17, 2010, at 0:40:32
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 18:46:46
Maxime, thanks for the clarification about who said what and how. And I'm glad to hear that you have a friend who really seems to know you.
Do you have the ability to chose a different endo? I have difficulties w/ doctors, and it's hard on me if I don't feel respected. That's my issue.
Could the desire to lighten your med load be coming from a place of feeling a little better? That would be a positive factor. Taking it slow and gathering information is proactive and part of self-care.
Returning to intellectually engaging work after lengthy unemployment will highlight cognitive issues. The brains of even those blessed with good health grow rusty with even a little disuse, hence the benefits of crossword puzzles, etc.
Here's to a decent Sunday.
Posted by SLS on October 17, 2010, at 3:13:16
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 19:44:58
Maxime,
I forgot to ask you about Topamax. If you start very low and raise the dosage gradually to 100mg-200mg, you might find that it has antidepressant properties. For me, the response to Topamax was mild but obvious. The side effect of interest would be weight-loss instead of weight-gain. I found that 200mg was no better than 100mg. I suffered no cognitive impairments at all.
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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