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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 14 to 38 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 1:36:19
You're probably frustrated with a few of my posts. I don't blame you if you are.
I also don't blame you for wanting to avoid drugs like mood stabilizers and atypical antipsychotics.
Do you mind my asking how old you are?
Take Care,
Morgan
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
Don't be sorry, you are like a godsend right now helping me out with this and trying to figure it out. So I just took an online mental screening test through my psychologist website testing for bipolar and general anxiety disorder. (specialtybehavioralhealth.com/mental-health-test)
According to the tests, I did not have Bipolar but I did have GAD. Now I don't know how accurate those tests are, but my psychologists uses it on his website so that has to mean something. So let me extend my experience.
I started college and starting experiencing OCD and its manifestations... doubting everything from sexuality to my relationships with friends. I came quite paranoid. I experimented with marijuana and even dabbled with cocaine a few times but that was it. The bad part was that I was a heavy drinker.. about 30 drinks/wk for a long period of time. I'd take the summers off, but during school year, almost every weekend was that. When I first came to my psychiatrist I was alll wound up, so he put me on lithium and that took the edge off, but didn't do ANYTHING for my thoughts. I still had so many thoughts going through my head that I had trouble concnetrationg and my short term memory sucked. To stop the racing thoughts he's put me on Lamictal-that didn't work (weaning off now). Then he tried seroquel (I've seen a little bit of improvement). He also gave me Klonopin which I started a day ago, which I intend to take every other day to see how that works out. I've started therapy today, and honestly, after just one day, I feel better already. I've been exercising daily, and ready to get done with these thoughts that's holding be back to fully enjoying the life I used to have - a life with confidence. I'm sick and tired of this and I'm doing everything in my will to get over this. I'm cool with a low dose of lithium, but these hard a$$ drugs I don't think is for me. I want to try an ssri and see what happens. My doctor didn't give me an ssri at first because he thought that'd make the "mania" even worse. He attributed my racing thoughts as mania. Now, don't get me wrong, I have alot of energy. I've been energetic guy all my life. I thought I just was hyper, my mom was hyper and we always joked I took after my mom. My father has OCD for sure. I still feel like I'm not "calm." I often have problems loosing my temper and irritable sometimes. I feel sometimes that I'm in this constant state of fear and hte littlest things I'll react to, even if my fly wizzes by I flinch. I hate it, I feel like a wimp...also, i'm 23. so what do you think?
Posted by Hombre on July 30, 2010, at 3:16:04
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
If you haven't already, I'd check out this page:
http://www.psycheducation.org/index.html
It's all about depression with symptoms of agitation, anxiety, racing thoughts, insomnia, etc.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:04:06
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
> Don't be sorry, you are like a godsend right now helping me out with this and trying to figure it out. So I just took an online mental screening test through my psychologist website testing for bipolar and general anxiety disorder. (specialtybehavioralhealth.com/mental-health-test)
> According to the tests, I did not have Bipolar but I did have GAD. Now I don't know how accurate those tests are, but my psychologists uses it on his website so that has to mean something. So let me extend my experience.
> I started college and starting experiencing OCD and its manifestations... doubting everything from sexuality to my relationships with friends. I came quite paranoid. I experimented with marijuana and even dabbled with cocaine a few times but that was it. The bad part was that I was a heavy drinker.. about 30 drinks/wk for a long period of time. I'd take the summers off, but during school year, almost every weekend was that. When I first came to my psychiatrist I was alll wound up, so he put me on lithium and that took the edge off, but didn't do ANYTHING for my thoughts. I still had so many thoughts going through my head that I had trouble concnetrationg and my short term memory sucked. To stop the racing thoughts he's put me on Lamictal-that didn't work (weaning off now). Then he tried seroquel (I've seen a little bit of improvement). He also gave me Klonopin which I started a day ago, which I intend to take every other day to see how that works out. I've started therapy today, and honestly, after just one day, I feel better already. I've been exercising daily, and ready to get done with these thoughts that's holding be back to fully enjoying the life I used to have - a life with confidence. I'm sick and tired of this and I'm doing everything in my will to get over this. I'm cool with a low dose of lithium, but these hard a$$ drugs I don't think is for me. I want to try an ssri and see what happens. My doctor didn't give me an ssri at first because he thought that'd make the "mania" even worse. He attributed my racing thoughts as mania. Now, don't get me wrong, I have alot of energy. I've been energetic guy all my life. I thought I just was hyper, my mom was hyper and we always joked I took after my mom. My father has OCD for sure. I still feel like I'm not "calm." I often have problems loosing my temper and irritable sometimes. I feel sometimes that I'm in this constant state of fear and hte littlest things I'll react to, even if my fly wizzes by I flinch. I hate it, I feel like a wimp...also, i'm 23. so what do you think?I still think you may have a bipolar predisposition. You sound a lot like me in college. I may have taken drinking to an even greater extreme though putting down 20 drinks in just a night sometimes, my tolerance was rediculous(sh*t I did this on and off into my late 30s. Had tons of fun but it was not good for me in the long run).
You're not a wimp, dude, you're just on edge. I think it's great that you are exercising and seeing a therapist-two of the best things you could be doing for yourself in the long run.
Psychiatrists are a little too cautious about using SSRIs for people that may fall under the bipolar spectrum, IMHO. But you can't really blame them, after seeing how so many people have been sent into mania on SSRIs and other ADs. I still think it is worth taking the risk in some cases. Better to live and feel alive and function well on an SSRI than some of these other mind numbing drugs they hand out like freakin candy.
I think it might be worth revisiting lithium at a low dose, maybe 150 to 300 mg of Lithobid, the extended release version. If you can, you may want to order some lithium orotate(I think NOW has a good one) off the internet and try taking a few of those everyday, may be worth a shot.
I say try Prozac or Zoloft, especially if you add a little Lithium. I would do this before resorting to Zyprexa. Just pay attention to what is going on with you and your behavior when or if you start to feel better on Prozac or Zoloft. If you are on the high energy kinda wacky happy all the time side of things this may be a further indication of bipolar.
I would try to use Klonopin on just an as needed basis when things are really bad. You just don't want to get hooked on a benzo, that's the last thing you need. Besides, your brain is still finishing up some fine tuning, completing the final touches on myelination amongst other things. I have no idea if Klonopin would interfere with this or not, but long term benzodiazepine use has been associated with possible brain damage and cognitive issues. Then again, there are many psychiatric drugs that are thought to possibly alter the brain in a negative way. Don't let that scare you away from starting some kind of treatment though. The stress your brain is under right now can potentially do damage and cause unwanted alterations as well, maybe more than the right treatment will. So you definitely want to do something to try to get you back to feeling well again. I know, this is starting to sound a bit sticky, well, it is.
Dude, believe me, you want to be open minded to the possibility of some type of bipolar, it will empower you to protect yourself and prevent a possible devastating major episode in the future. I would talk to your therapist about it. On that note, keep in mind that you most likely do have something going on in your subconscious that is contributing to all of this. Whatever these subconscious complex emotional issues may be, they are rooted in whatever occurred during your development. And, these things could be contributing to triggering any predisposition you may have, whether it be bipolar, OCD, anxiety, depression, or all of the above. Often you will realize that many of your symptoms and behaviors(OCD, Bipolar, Anxiety) are manifestations of underlying depression. This is why it is so important that you stick with therapy and nip some things in the but while you are young. You may find that you will have to return to therapy once or twice and find a new therapist for whatever reason down the road. Just keep this in mind.
My old therapist once told me that her professor described mania(Remember mania can manifest in different forms, not just the classic form that we are all accustomed to hearing about)as a flight from reality. So any racing thoughts, OCD, high energy, unusually high confidence, lack of sleep or lack of the need for sleep, may be reactions to(flights from) the ugly and scary reality that is inside you or around you or both. This reality may be underlying sadness/depression and/or anger. It's very complicated.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:25:37
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
Sheesh, I may be in the manic up all night mode tonight. Not a destabilizing state, just an unusually awake state.
Do you think your parents would give you some extra money to try a few supplements to help with some of your symptoms? Or maybe you have access to the money of your own. A few supplements I would suggest trying that may be able to replace the Klonopin are:
Magnesium(glycinate, malate-may be the best cheapest version, taurinate, or citrate)-calming effect on the mind. May help with sleep
Taurine-also may have a calming effect, this is why taurine is in energy drinks to possibly offset the jittery effect of caffeine. May also help with sleep
Glycine-NMDA antagonist which may protect against glutamate toxicity-something you could be experiencing right now. Glycine can also improve sleep.
N-Acetyl-Cysteine-Also antagonizes NMDA(or at least I think???) and has been shown to be effect for some at treating symptoms of OCD.
GABA(Gamma Amino Butyric Acid)-GABA is the "calming" neurotransmitter thought to be influenced by benzodiazepines like Klonopin, the reason for the therapeutic effect. GABA is an amino acid supplement you can by that the Vitamin Shoppe or Wholefoods or any other health/vitamin store. It can have a calming effect and also help with sleep.
I would start out with Magnesium, Glycine, and GABA. Then add NAC and maybe Taurine to the mix after a few weeks of experimentation with the other ones. Whatever you do, first try each one by themselves for a day or two so you know what is doing what. Then if you feel like the first 3 may help, take 2 of them at the same time or all of them at once and see how you feel. These supplements are going to help you out the most at night when you need to chill out and eventually crash. You can experiment to see which ones you react well to during the day.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:40:03
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:25:37
I almost forgot, if you are taking Magnesium, you probably want to take a certain amount of calcium. Calcium citrate is one of the best forms. I believe you want to take say 100 percent the RDA of calcium if you take 100 percent the RDA of magnesium. I could be wrong about this ratio, you might want to research this a bit.
I think most of the supplements I listed are pretty cheap, especially if you go to the Vitamin Shoppe or order them online through iHerb or the Vitamin Shoppe. Definitely do not go to Wholefoods, just disregard that I ever mentioned "WholeDollar" : )
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:46:23
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:40:03
Actually iHerb and Vitacost are probably the cheapest most reliable sources for supplements on the internet. Vitamin Shoppe online is good too.
Posted by Hombre on July 30, 2010, at 5:52:21
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
If you want to go by the book, what Morgan said is what most algorithms suggest. Depakote and/or lithium, or maybe Zyprexa.
Controlling the racing thoughts and agitation is priority #1. You have enough insight to know that what you're experiencing right now isn't good for you, but it may be hard to strategize while your attention is being distracted by the racing thoughts.
I fought the BP diagnosis because I didn't want the headache of taking so many meds and the stigma. But until I allowed the BP treatments I did not know real peace and a full night's rest. Sometimes I did't know how much better things could be because we only talk about disease, not being robustly healthy: Calm, but energetic; relaxed but confident. Eating and sleeping like a baby. Laughing and not taking things seriously. Doing the things you want to do and able to do the things you have to do without feeling like every day is an emergency.
The diagnosis is just a handle for which treatments to try. I'd take a fistful of meds if that was what was necessary to feel well. I don't really know what my "true" diagnosis is, and it doesn't matter. Allowing the greatest range of options to serve you just seems like the way to go. Whatever it takes to get you well.
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 6:45:27
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:49:39
> If you had developed those symtpoms after drinking heavily, it could have been just a temporary bipolar. People get misdiagnosed Bipolar I after long-term substance abuse, when it is a common occurence to have those symptoms after quitting. It's your mind not being able to handle all the emotions previously hidden by alcohol or drugs; if you let them emerge slowly, you might end up not being bipolar after all.
I have seen this happen numerous times with MICA (mentally ill chemical abuser) patients.
- Scott
Posted by violette on July 30, 2010, at 12:45:06
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Hi Cycling,
I was just thinking your PDoc doesn't know you well because I think it's highly possible that you don't know you well.
If your PDoc doesn't have alot of experience with D&A, You'd likely get the best treatment with a dual diagnosis specialist. Additionally, you'd probably find out the best meds/course of treatment from the NA or AA people. My friend used to go there, and the experienced people at her group had watched dozens of people become bipolar after quitting D&A. Those people really know how to deal with this stuff.
Then again, alot of people don't like being in one of those programs-because if you were assigned a sponser you'd have to do the 12 steps. So if you don't want to do the program, you'd probably not have an experienced person to work with closely. Either way, you could still show up at a few meetings and get information from experienced people-you don't have to do the 12 steps to hang out there and talk to experienced people. That could be worth a try?
That's great you're doing therapy. Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later). It's helpful to just have someone to talk to regardless, but psychodyanmic therapy gets to the source of the symptoms, which are often emotional crap from the past.
Mood dysregulation can express as bipolar, ocd, anxiety, paranoia-whatever-can be addressed with therapy. Maybe someday you'll no longer need meds.
Perhaps you have always been bipolar, and I think it's good you are restarting the Klonopin-which can be a mood stablizer itself. At least till you get a feel for your symptoms by quitting the heavy drugs. If that doesn't work-you could add an AD or Zyprexa later. Klonopin isn't usually addictive since there are no immediate affects, though I guess it could be for some. I hated it as it just made me tired and gave me headaches. The Klonopin could be a temporary thing you change later after spending time and therapy and weaning off the heavier drugs to see what your main symptoms are. If it is mostly OCD anxiety, that is the more difficult one to treat...but especially at your age, it would be good to narrow them down now that you are not doing the heavy drinking.
Best of luck to you! :)
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 13:12:22
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 30, 2010, at 12:45:06
> Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later)
Is there something on the Internet you could refer me to regarding this?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 13:28:32
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » violette, posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 13:12:22
Honestly I'm not afraid of having a little Bipolar, but I'm always told to follow my gut, and my gut feeling says this is isn't typical bipolar. I think I can agree with you that some of these bipolar meds can help with some of my symptoms simply becasue they are typical of bipolar. It's been mentioned more than one in this thread that a med like Zyprexa or Depakote + SSRI would be a good choice, which I think has been that best idea so far. The SSRI would possibly take care of the OCD, and the AP would treat the racing thoughts. I agree that I need to take care of the edgyness and the irritability. I like the idea to take the klonopin. I'm thinking maybe I can ween off of the meds I'm on now to take on a new regiment while taking klonopin to keep me stablized which I'm transitioning. Ideas?
Posted by markwell on July 30, 2010, at 16:49:44
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » SLS, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 13:28:32
I found that 5mgs of abilify helped with my racing thoughts.. It took a couple of weeks. I gained weight on it.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:00:16
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by Hombre on July 30, 2010, at 5:52:21
Hombre do you mind sharing what medications you are currently taking?
Do you think you fall somewhere under the bipolar umbrella?
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:07:14
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 30, 2010, at 12:45:06
> Hi Cycling,
>
> I was just thinking your PDoc doesn't know you well because I think it's highly possible that you don't know you well.
>
> If your PDoc doesn't have alot of experience with D&A, You'd likely get the best treatment with a dual diagnosis specialist. Additionally, you'd probably find out the best meds/course of treatment from the NA or AA people. My friend used to go there, and the experienced people at her group had watched dozens of people become bipolar after quitting D&A. Those people really know how to deal with this stuff.
>
> Then again, alot of people don't like being in one of those programs-because if you were assigned a sponser you'd have to do the 12 steps. So if you don't want to do the program, you'd probably not have an experienced person to work with closely. Either way, you could still show up at a few meetings and get information from experienced people-you don't have to do the 12 steps to hang out there and talk to experienced people. That could be worth a try?
>
> That's great you're doing therapy. Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later). It's helpful to just have someone to talk to regardless, but psychodyanmic therapy gets to the source of the symptoms, which are often emotional crap from the past.
>
> Mood dysregulation can express as bipolar, ocd, anxiety, paranoia-whatever-can be addressed with therapy. Maybe someday you'll no longer need meds.
>
> Perhaps you have always been bipolar, and I think it's good you are restarting the Klonopin-which can be a mood stablizer itself. At least till you get a feel for your symptoms by quitting the heavy drugs. If that doesn't work-you could add an AD or Zyprexa later. Klonopin isn't usually addictive since there are no immediate affects, though I guess it could be for some. I hated it as it just made me tired and gave me headaches. The Klonopin could be a temporary thing you change later after spending time and therapy and weaning off the heavier drugs to see what your main symptoms are. If it is mostly OCD anxiety, that is the more difficult one to treat...but especially at your age, it would be good to narrow them down now that you are not doing the heavy drinking.
>
> Best of luck to you! :)Hey Violette, Maybe I'm not remembering Cycling's original post correctly, but I don't think they have a major problem with drug or alcohol abuse. You have to remember, they are 23 and it is not unusual to have experimented some at that age and younger. I have friends that did tons of drugs and drank copious amounts of alcohol for fairly long periods in college but they graduated and got great jobs and never needed treatment for their drug and alcohol abuse. I believe Cycling even mentioned not drinking much during the summer, this does not sound like someone with a real problem. I think the summer time is when people, especially young people often drink and party even more. I also think Cycling mentioned only experimenting with a few drugs here and there and never got in the habit of doing them regularly. This is perfectly normal behavior for someone in college, especially for a man.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:09:55
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » violette, posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 13:12:22
> > Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later)
>
> Is there something on the Internet you could refer me to regarding this?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - ScottThis actually makes sense to me Scott. It follows along the same line of medication treatment making someone feel so good that they no longer see or feel the need for some much needed therapy that could help in the long run, especially when it comes to forming and maintaining positive relationships.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:12:41
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » SLS, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 13:28:32
>Honestly I'm not afraid of having a little Bipolar, but I'm always told to follow my gut, and my gut feeling says this is isn't typical bipolar.
It's not typical bipolar. I'm not sure there really is a "typical" bipolar any longer and there probably never was one. When I experienced my mixed state mania I learned that this was actually more common than the "classic" euphoric mania followed by major depression that most people typically think of when bipolar is mentioned.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:25:49
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » SLS, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 13:28:32
>The SSRI would possibly take care of the OCD, and the AP would treat the racing thoughts.
I actually had succes with treating racing thought, agitation, and OCD the first time I ever took medication when I started Prozac. It took 3 weeks but, man, all agitation, anxiety, OCD, depression, and racing thoughts were obliterated. I woke up, took Prozac, and within the hour I was a different person, someone I loved and felt comfortable with. I also had success with Zoloft alone for years and the only reason why I stopped was because I simply thought it was time, I was dead wrong. Things are different now and I unfortunately require other medications like lithium for some relief and management. I may even revisit a small dose of Zyprexa soon.
I'm not saying that an SSRI alone will eventually get you back on track and feeling great like it did for me, but I do believe it is a possibility.
Are you sleeping o.k. right now?
> I'm thinking maybe I can ween off of the meds I'm on now to take on a new regiment while taking klonopin to keep me stablized which I'm transitioning. Ideas?
What meds are you currently taking? This would help us give you some ideas.
Are you opposed to trying the natural or supplement remedies I suggested? I really think they could help. I also think you may be able to avoid getting hooked on Klonopin if you use some of those supplements.
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 18:42:34
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:12:41
In response to Morgan Miller: Yes I am 23 and yes I drank a lot I was in a fraternity if that makes any sense. Let me make this clear, I was not an alcoholic and I have proof. Right before I was taking my medications I was drinking 30-35 drinks /week. When my pdoc said I couldnt do that anymore, I said find, and went off cold turkey. If I was dependent on alcohol it wouldve been very difficult for me to go completely cold turkey. I do not have a problem with substance abuseI just like to have a casual drink every now and then with friends like any other normal person does.
In regards to my sleeping patterns, I do not have a problem sleeping once so ever. In fact, I sleep too much which Im trying not to do. Im setting a sleep schedule for myself now, exercising daily, I take 2.5 grams EPA, multivitamin, and I eat well (no fast food). My problem is dealing with an onset of an anxiety attack- I dont know how to handle those which makes it worse then leads to shortness of breath.I find myself always thinking about the situation Im in or the OCD thoughts which ruin my concentration. I need help catching those thoughts and not ruminating on them because this leads to my racing thoughts. I often catch myself asking what if questions and replaying scenarios of my past which causes me anxiety because I dont know why Im having these thoughts. Also, I feel like I have excessive worrying at times. Lastly, sometimes I get instrusive images in my head (typical of OCD)
All that being said, so what do you guys think?And I'm allllll down for natural treatments. I believe my brain should be my own pharmacy, but I also do understand special circumstances. We all have OCD, but some of us have bad habits. Bad habits can be reversed with discipline.
Posted by bleauberry on July 30, 2010, at 18:51:27
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Your symptoms are pretty much a deficient serotonin thing. So I don't understand the absence of serotonin enhancement in your meds. I've had that awful racing stuff before. And it is awful. It was stopped dead in its tracks with a low dose ssri in very short time, every time. Mood stabilizers and antipsychotics were basically not very helpful and sometimes even made it worse.
It's serotonin. The current meds are doing nothing for that.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 18:55:10
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 18:42:34
>I often catch myself asking what if questions and replaying scenarios of my past which causes me anxiety because I dont know why Im having these thoughts. Also, I feel like I have excessive worrying at times. Lastly, sometimes I get instrusive images in my head (typical of OCD)
You sound a whole lot like me in my bad days of obtrusive obsessive regretful thoughts and OCD.
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 18:58:27
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 18:55:10
Morgan, so what was your treatment again?
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 19:09:41
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by bleauberry on July 30, 2010, at 18:51:27
> Your symptoms are pretty much a deficient serotonin thing. So I don't understand the absence of serotonin enhancement in your meds. I've had that awful racing stuff before. And it is awful. It was stopped dead in its tracks with a low dose ssri in very short time, every time. Mood stabilizers and antipsychotics were basically not very helpful and sometimes even made it worse.
>
> It's serotonin. The current meds are doing nothing for that.If this is the case, an SSRI like Prozac or Zoloft may be in order.
In the meantime, I would try to stay away from Klonopin, though there is evidence that it has some serotonergic properties, and I would look into taking a good form of Magnesium(along with calcium) and a little lithium aspartate or orotate. Both magnesium and lithium can increase serotonin levels and both are calming. I would order some lithium orotate or aspartate online and go to Vitamin Shoppe or other vitamin/healthfood store nearby and get some Magnesium Glycinat or Magnesium Taurinate.
If things are really bad and you don't have anything else right now, go ahead and take a little klonopin as needed. I would even split the pills you have and see if that is enough to give you some relief.
I don't know if I necessarily agree that this is just a serotonin issue, I'm not sure it is that simple. There are underlying components of your subconscious that are playing a role in triggering some of this. And of course you are genetically predisposed as well. Stick with therapy and exercise. You may find that intense exercise for a 20 minute period followed by a thorough meditative stretch, will give you a great amount of relief. The exercise will boost serotonin and dopamine levels and the meditative stretch with boost GABA levels.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 20:29:16
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 18:58:27
> Morgan, so what was your treatment again?
Well it used to be that I could get away with just taking an SSRI and some fish oil and a 5 to 6 day a week intense exercise regimen, but nowadays I'm dealing with a different beast.
I was taking Symbyax(combination of Prozac and Zyprexa) for several months. I decided to split them and eventually weened myself off Zyprexa. I also added 300 mg Lithium Carbonate and continued on with the Prozac. I had taken St. John's Wort in the form of New Chapter's SC27 for 2 months along with the Prozac and Lithium, but recently decided to end that experiment. Currently I am just taking 20mg Prozac and 300mg Lithium Carbonate. I have been taking extra lithium in the form of Lithium aspartate to see if it would help, not sure if it has made much of a difference. I wish I could go back to the days of just taking Zoloft and fish oil and exercising religiously, unfortunately things have changed.
You may want to try the combination of Magnesium and Lithium orotate and aspartated and continue doing everything else you are doing and see how you feel. You probably will still need to add an SSRI to the mix. I think Zoloft is superior to Prozac, especially for long term use based on it's profile. But the doctor may be more inclined to try Prozac. Starting with Symbyax may not be a bad idea for a 6 to 8 weeks and then you could split them and ween off Zyprexa. I know there are many choices and it can seem hard to decide on what might be best. The only way to find out is to start trying something.
Posted by Hombre on July 31, 2010, at 6:16:36
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » Hombre, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 17:00:16
> Hombre do you mind sharing what medications you are currently taking?
>
> Do you think you fall somewhere under the bipolar umbrella?Morgan -
I take 30mg Remeron, 150mg Effexor, and 100mg Seroquel, all generics.
Remeron alone had a strong but short-lived effect. Adding the Effexor added a lot of energy, but sleep was still a problem. The Seroquel seems to help with sleep and any tendency toward AD-induced racing thoughts or anxiety. I've never been manic or hypomanic off meds or drugs, but sleep and anxiety became serious problems along with difficulty focusing.
Now that I know what I know, I wonder if I could have addressed the sleep and anxiety with herbs, but I'm not going to rock the boat until I've had a job for a while and am comfortable facing a few potentially sleepless nights.
I should add that I exercise quite regularly, and it really helps with energy and calmness. I jog, swim, do tai chi/qi gong/kung fu and lift weights. I also do a type of meditation as part of my kung fu training - Google "zhan zhuang" for more details. It's more about developing sensitivity to seldom-used muscles and to develop relaxed, whole-body power, good for any physical activity.
I also think taking magnesium citrate at night with zinc helps me to sleep well. I try to take my meds by 9-9:30 and I'm out like a light about an hour later. I am able to wake up at around 6:30-7:00 depending on when I conked out. The nightly meds never fail to knock me out. I rarely deviate from the schedule and I always turn the lights down by 9pm or so and try to avoid too much computer-time too close to bed.
And lastly, as you know, I think the herbs have really helped to smooth out the jagged edges of the meds and to make me feel less medicated in general. I actually don't feel medicated at all, but for some constipation (addressed by the mag citrate) and some sexual SEs (addressed by the herbs).
As you can see it's a pretty comprehensive routine, but I stick to it because I've wasted too much time suffering and hating myself for not being who I thought I could be.
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