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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on July 27, 2010, at 20:06:00
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya you sound perfectly capable of being in theaphy you write and express yourself well. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on July 27, 2010, at 20:37:11
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 7:44:08
> I take celexa and have been in therapy for years, but since having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder I have been told that I cannot benefit from therapy.
I don't believe that. That's like being told to cant benefit from a good diet, exercise and fish oil. Therapy won't be the cure, but I'm sure it can benefit in some way.
Posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 27, 2010, at 20:37:11
I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 21:51:50
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya,
That's sad you were thought to have been malingering in some way-it's happened to a couple people I know, one person who I know well. Please don't think that personally reflects on you-it's actually more common in the mental health system than some might think.
I think some Ts who are unqualified or who tend to get over involved with their patients might be hestitant to take a patient who has been a suicide risk in the past. This might be especially true if a therapist lost a patient to suicide, as I'd imagine this happens throughout many Ts careers. Some can't handle this due to their own insecurities or attachment issues, or just being too sensitive/empathetic to handle it.
But maybe if you seek out a T who specializes in childhood traumas, you might find a better fit? Also-it might help to speak to a therapist on the phone for a bit first (unsure if you have done this) that way, you won't be T hopping so much....You might seek a T who does a formal assessment interview to derive their own conclusions rather than your history with or from other Ts? If they ask you about prior Ts, maybe you could say you don't wish to talk about it now, or better yet, state you have simply not found a good match and that is the purpose of seeking a new therapist.
It took me 10 years to find the right therapist. But they are out there. My therapist knew I had several before him, but was not the least bit concerned or interested in talking to them about my history-as he wanted to formulate his own view of my core issues and not be tainted by another's subjectivity. There are therapists who view you as a person, not a diagnosis, or question the diagnoses of past therapists if you choose to disclose them. I don't think the psychosis would be an issue either way.
Some therapists do want patients with the less complex issues, that is true, but others are interested in treating different types of patients for whatever reasons, such as being bored with treating patients with mild depression, for example.
Are the obsessions related to the therapist relationship? If so, there's no reason you need to talk about that upfront. It happens with alot of people I hear, most keep it from their therapists, at least for a while. I think it's important to build trust before self-disclosing too much. I didn't see it that way in the past-but have since read many stories and looked back at a time when I disclosed too much too soon with a new therapist, which ended up unfavorably. The stronger you build the trust and relationship, the easier it becomes to discuss those fears. Try to be patient and work on the trust first.
My T said the only crazy people out there are those who don't think there is anything 'wrong'. You have much insight into your situation, sound very psychologically minded, intelligent, considerate...and considering that, I'd bet you have other strengths too...and it seems you may be a bit hard on yourself, as many of us are, in thinking of the how other Ts have viewed you in the past. Many Ts have issues of their own. If a T is avoidant by nature, it might not work to have a patient who gets attached quickly; a therapist who is more narcissistic might prefer patients who get more easily attached. Whatever the case may be, there are so many variables involved that point to the therapist's own personality pattern rather than yours.
I understand your fears and many of us had adverse experiences with therapists, but there are very humane ones out there who can help you and who would want to help you. As for personality disorders, my guess would the entire population has some of those traits, and my guess is that at least half the mental health population has strong traits or could qualify for a personaity disorder. Instead, people are given other diagnoses. You just happen to be one who was not so lucky as those patients, at least in my view.
I hope you don't judge yourself on the actions of prior therapists, and instead, build up the courage to find one who is competent and able.
Take care,
violette
Posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 22:36:43
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
I had recently come across a very inspiring article I was trying to relocate for you..but could not find it. :(
Anyway, you might have better luck finding a therapist through a referral from a non-profit schitophrenia advocacy organization or a child abuse trauma survivors/PTSD organization, if childhood issues contributed to your situation, many which you can Google and contact to get a referral in your area. You can find someone-hang in there.
See, it's not you Maya:
http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/Effective/APAMonV31No2.htm
http://spiritualrecoveries.blogspot.com/2007/03/dr-bertram-karon-schizophrenia-recovery.html
(((Hugs)))
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:32:59
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
> I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Was it a therapist or a psychiatrist that told her this?
We have to consider the very good possibility that whatever we were exposed to in our past played a part in triggering the development of our current illness. Therefore, we should always consider psychodynamic therapy as one of a few treatments that may help in not only our recovery but our personal growth. Therapy isn't easy and we have to be prepared to work hard and deal with some unpleasant emotions buried in our subconscious.
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:35:14
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 13:50:55
> I am sorry the bipolar disorder wasn't diagnosed properly. How do you manage to keep it from interfering with the therapy process?
>
> Take care,
> Maya.Thank you. I'm sorry your illness was not diagnosed and treated properly sooner.
You take care too,
Morgan
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 10:02:54
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:32:59
"Therapy isn't easy and we have to be prepared to work hard and deal with some unpleasant emotions buried in our subconscious."
One problem I noticed is that women are retraumatized by the mental health system. This is especially true of sexual abuse survivors. I get a sense that Maya's fears could be related to being traumatized by mental health practioners, such as being accused of faking schitzophrenia, for one. That sounds very traumatic-and I know someone who had a similar experience-which added unnecessary trauma when she was having a breakdown.
Once someone makes a suicide attempt or threat, s/he is commonly branded Borderline by therapists and psychiatrists. I've spent alot of time at psychotherapy forums and have seen plenty of evidence that people with these circumstances have a hell of a time finding therapists. And for them, after being retraumatized through abadondment or intense countertransference reactions-it's difficult to trust a therapist. It's not that there's only evidence from these 'stories' of other patients-it's well recognized in the literature that patients given the B word are less likely to find a therapist willing to work with them.
I don't know if this is the case here, but it's important to recognize this. What it comes down to is that women are more likely to be sexually abused-about 25% of the female population experiences sexual abuse before age 18. This causes both similar and different effects than other types of abuse-it especially complicates trust issues. It's rare that men are deemed Borderline-it's women, many, but not all, who had been sexually abused by fathers, brothers, uncles....
And people with this symptomology-among those who need to most help-are more often rejected or abandoned by therapists and retraumatized by those experiences. Training is important, more emphasis on the effects of sexual abuse needs directed to therapists and practioners, well both research and training.
Women were once blamed for sexual abuse-for seducing the abuser. The stigma just goes around and round, now women get branded Borderline-code word for 'difficult patient'. Marsha Linehan has done work to improve this area, allowing patients with more complex issues to obtain effective treatment with her DBT method. She also did research that shows patients with BPD who are in more intense psychotherapy programs-save the health care system alot of money by staying out of hospitals. And it is true that insurance companies will often not pay for treatment of someone with an Axis II diagnosis such as Borderline. Which is totally ridiculous as some patients with BPD need the most help. Also-there is enough research that indicates a biological disposition occurs with people with BPD, as a temperment, like most all other mental disorders.
I don't think DBT is necessary for many patients with complex issues, however, and I agree with you that psychodynamic therapy has the capacity to heal more than other types of therapies.
I don't know if this is related to Maya's situation, but the fears she talked about, and her experience of being accused of "faking", reminded me of how many female patients who have attempted suicide and/or are given the BPD diagnosis are retraumatized by mental health professionals and therefore have a more difficult time trusting a therapist, which effects one's ability to work with a therapist.
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 10:37:58
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 10:02:54
Just wanted say that if anyone is in the Washington D.C. area, The Family Center is a great practice and the owner, Dr. Glory Fox Dierker, is a wonderful therapist for women. For a man, Gus Nava would be a great therapist at TFC. I would have faith in any therapist the works at TFC.
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 11:20:32
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya-I realized something I said could have been taken as discouragement...so I should clarify:
It did not take me 10 years to 'find' the right therapist-it took me only a couple of months. It took me 10 years to realize the former therapists were not the best for me. I knew relatively little about psychotherapy during that time and just stuck with whoever I was with until my insurance changed or I lost interest etc.
Please don't think I somehow implied it would take you-or anyone-10 years to find the right T!!!
Hugs!
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:26:23
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by Phillipa on July 27, 2010, at 20:06:00
Thank you Phillipa.
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:28:51
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 10:37:58
Thank you, Morgan, for your advice and support.
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:30:47
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
> I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Thanks for your message. I'm beginning to see that now :)
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:31:57
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 11:20:32
Violette, thank you for your encouragement and support. You are a very sensitive, kind and empathetic person. I found the links you sent me very helpful.The problem with finding a T is that where I live (not in the U.S.), the records tend to follow you around, so it is not easy to prevent automatic conclusions based on other Ts' assumptions or experience. I have even considered using a fictitious name.
It is true that Ts' personal issues can affect their judgement and willingness to accept certain patients for treatment. It is possible that some have perceived my behavor to be characteristic of borderline personality disorder. That could explain why one particular T constantly made insensitive and undermining remarks using an angry tone of voice. He dismissed my uneasiness as "manipulation" and "emotional blackmail". I began to see myself as he portrayed me and this eventually lead me to see suicide as my only option.
I did not experience childhood traumas of any kind. There are, however, periods of time I have repressed. I remember myself thinking as a little kid about how glad I was about having almost completely succeeded in blocking out certain periods. A while later I noticed no longer having access to them. It is clear to me that my genetic sensitivity and weaknesses were responsible for my being overwhelmed by things people usually take for granted. However, I suspect that this may have resulted in problems such as emotional blocks and flooding .
It is not possible to mention this to any T, as the expected reaction would be too much for me to handle. They see me as a psychotic, disturbed, manipulative and dysfunctonal person who should be concentrating on behavioral change only. I understand that, and they have a point. But constantly being unable to bring up issues that confuse and upset me due to knowing that the response would be unbearable is driving me crazy.I am glad to hear that you have finally found the right T. Your point was clear, by the way, and did not seem to imply that finding a T usually takes 10 years.
May I ask what you suffer from (only if you feel comfortable replying).
Hugs to you too!
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:33:03
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:31:57
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 16:22:36
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:31:57
>I did not experience childhood traumas of any kind. There are, however, periods of time I have repressed. I remember myself thinking as a little kid about how glad I was about having almost completely succeeded in blocking out certain periods. A while later I noticed no longer having access to them. It is clear to me that my genetic sensitivity and weaknesses were responsible for my being overwhelmed by things people usually take for granted. However, I suspect that this may have resulted in problems such as emotional blocks and flooding .
It is not possible to mention this to any T, as the expected reaction would be too much for me to handle. They see me as a psychotic, disturbed, manipulative and dysfunctonal person who should be concentrating on behavioral change only. I understand that, and they have a point. But constantly being unable to bring up issues that confuse and upset me due to knowing that the response would be unbearable is driving me crazy.I'm so sorry you have had such bad experiences with therapists. Please try not to let it keep you from finding a seeing a really good genuinely empathic and compassionate therapist. Believe me! There are some out there! These therapists will have an open mind and are willing to disregard any opinions/conclusions previously written by the therapists you have seen.
Are you sure you haven't suffered any childhood trauma? Merely going through a divorce, even the most amicable of divorces, is a traumatic event. You don't have to be abused physically to have been traumatized in any way. Verbal abuse and verbal criticism can be forms of trauma that can impact the development of your mental health. I remember my old therapist told me one time that if there were no criticism in the world, she would probably be out of a job.
>A while later I noticed no longer having access to them. It is clear to me that my genetic sensitivity and weaknesses were responsible for my being overwhelmed by things people usually take for granted. However, I suspect that this may have resulted in problems such as emotional blocks and flooding .
It is not possible to mention this to any T, as the expected reaction would be too much for me to handle.Can you further elucidate and expand on this? I really think you just have not found the right therapist.
If you don't mind my asking, where do you live?
Morgan
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 20:07:31
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:31:57
Maya-
I wrote a long message to you, but changed my mind about posting it here. If you turn your Babblemail on, I'll send it to you (it won't give me your real email address to do it that way).
Considering it contains personal information which would be fed to various sites around the internet, I decided to cancel posting the message Although it could have the potential to help others, it's not worth the risk in case for some reason later, I'd have to or want to delete something out of it I would be screwed.
If you don't want to turn on your Babblemail through the settings menu, I can revise it (as I saved it to a file) and post the message after deleting various information.
:)
Posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 9:03:09
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 20:07:31
Violette, I am trying to find the settings menu in order to turn on babblemail. I hope to find it eventually :)
Posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 9:22:35
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 16:22:36
> I'm so sorry you have had such bad experiences with therapists. Please try not to let it keep you from finding a seeing a really good genuinely empathic and compassionate therapist. Believe me! There are some out there! These therapists will have an open mind and are willing to disregard any opinions/conclusions previously written by the therapists you have seen.
Thank you for your encouragement.
> Are you sure you haven't suffered any childhood trauma? Merely going through a divorce, even the most amicable of divorces, is a traumatic event. You don't have to be abused physically to have been traumatized in any way. Verbal abuse and verbal criticism can be forms of trauma that can impact the development of your mental health. I remember my old therapist told me one time that if there were no criticism in the world, she would probably be out of a job.
All my difficulties were a direct result of my having been mentally ill all my life and not having been diagnosed. Having been expected to lead a normal life while having major handicaps ignored was too much for me to handle. Secondary problems developed as a result
> >A while later I noticed no longer having access to them. It is clear to me that my genetic sensitivity and weaknesses were responsible for my being overwhelmed by things people usually take for granted. However, I suspect that this may have resulted in problems such as emotional blocks and flooding .
> It is not possible to mention this to any T, as the expected reaction would be too much for me to handle.
>
> Can you further elucidate and expand on this?I know from experience that any T hearing something like that from me will mock me and see me as pathetic, delusional and unwilling to face the real issues (my mental illness).
> I really think you just have not found the right therapist.
Perhaps you are right.
>
> If you don't mind my asking, where do you live?Sorry that I prefer not to reply on public boards. Is it ok to send you babblemail?
>
> Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2010, at 9:46:58
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 9:22:35
>Sorry that I prefer not to reply on public boards. Is it ok to send you babblemail?
Of course.
Posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 14:02:54
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 20:07:31
I sent you babblemail.
Posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 14:16:33
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 29, 2010, at 9:46:58
Morgan, I tried to send you babblemail but didn't succeed. Is your babblemail on?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 29, 2010, at 16:05:52
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 14:16:33
> Morgan, I tried to send you babblemail but didn't succeed. Is your babblemail on?
Morgan's babblemail is off. You can tell this because his name is in black, not blue, at the top of his posts.
Posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 16:18:11
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 29, 2010, at 16:05:52
> > Morgan, I tried to send you babblemail but didn't succeed. Is your babblemail on?
>
> Morgan's babblemail is off. You can tell this because his name is in black, not blue, at the top of his posts.
Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:24:28
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 29, 2010, at 14:02:54
Hi Maya! I sent you a Babblemail too-but now have one to read myself. :)
I just sent you what I wrote yesterday-nothing I wouldn't share with the community here..(just nothing I want on various websites the rest of my life.)
Talk to you later!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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