![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 145 to 169 of 182. Go back in thread:
Posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 20:21:58
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 19:49:04
Phillipa, pre ECT, they even tried me on clozaril/clozapine, which is only fda approved for treatment resistant schizophrenia. It did not help at all. Funny thing, is that that we did not try a benzo. As after ECT, and put on a benzo, people thought i was semi back to normal.
As my pdoc believes, it's psychosis secondary to MS. The ect did help some as i mentioned, and i'd like more, but can't afford it. But this did all seem precipitated by going cold turkey off a benzo. Bad idea(
Brian
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2010, at 21:39:53
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 20:21:58
Brian would it be a good idea or bad one ECT with MS I have no idea? As for psychosis and MS that I will also search. I wonder if it's kind of like what my Infection control doc said. When the damage is done treat what the damage is with appropriate treatment. Benzos are used in MS I did read that. So many that would help. I don't know have to do some research. And if you now know how to babblemail send your address we can correspond with information. Oh go to National Osteoporosis website. Off shoots on there I'm sure will also link to MS. Get support system site. Love Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:33:36
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 18:42:15
>Oh yeah, this last years brutal taper, where i had the most rare, severe, and uncommon withdrawal symptoms (perhaps that was MS), going from 30mgs to 17 was brutal. I think there were times where it was 1-2 mgs drops every two weeks.
>
> Not sure how i will do it this go round.Brian,
What symptoms have you experienced which are definitely due to MS? You've not said much about the MS.
I wouldn't expect that reducing by 1mg every two weeks would be brutal unless there was also something else going on. Like you say, this could have been to do with the MS.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:38:57
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 20:02:20
> We seemed to side step the headache and nausea today, and the bad depression phase. A little down, but not that bad. I have an optimistic feeling, that with these two on board, tapering might be easier. I will hope.
Well, that's good news :)
You must be traumatised by what happened after the CT, and what happened during your previous taper. Perhaps you're previous taper was aggravated by symptoms of MS? That's what I was thinking. I don't think it will be so bad this time.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:49:23
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 4, 2010, at 20:21:58
Brian,
So, let me get this right. You're now taking...
Trileptal 300mg three times a day
Lyrica 200mg three times a day
Diazepam 20mg three times a dayYour morning hypomania and afternoon depression have both reduced. You aren't suffering any inter-dose symptoms with diazepam. I think you also said that you feel slightly intoxicated.
If this is correct, I think you will be able to start reducing diazepam soon. The intoxicated feeling suggests that the diazepam dose is actually a bit too high, which should mean that it will be easy to reduce at first.
Is the voice in your head any less intrusive today? It sounds awful.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 11:36:40
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:49:23
> Brian,
>
> So, let me get this right. You're now taking...
>
> Trileptal 300mg three times a day
> Lyrica 200mg three times a day
> Diazepam 20mg three times a day
>
> Your morning hypomania and afternoon depression have both reduced. You aren't suffering any inter-dose symptoms with diazepam. I think you also said that you feel slightly intoxicated.
>
> If this is correct, I think you will be able to start reducing diazepam soon. The intoxicated feeling suggests that the diazepam dose is actually a bit too high, which should mean that it will be easy to reduce at first.
>
> Is the voice in your head any less intrusive today? It sounds awful.
>
>trileptal 300 3x, morning hypomania seemingly gone, afternoon bad physical illness seemingly gone, and just a little depressive side
yesterday afternoon
yesterday was lyrica 175mgs 3x, and was planning on the same today. tomorrow, could i go to 200 3x a day? I tolerate fine, and it helps.
diaz 20mgs 3s a day, no interdosePersonally, i think the slight intoxicated feeling was/is from lyrica, i could be wrong. For sure felt no intoxication from 6mgs of xanax, which would be equivalent.
I know the sedated, drunk, depressive, irritable feeling from diaz, and this didn't feel like it.My own voice in general, is a LITTLE less intrusive, repetetive, asnswering future questions, telling stories, running commentary, intrusive images etc.
At many times, i still wonder if i am bipolar, as diagnosed 2 times and need to dope myself on these drugs highly.
I remember being on a high dose of trileptal 1800 last winter, frantically calling my dr asking if we could go to the max, 2400 (maybe even on zyprexa too), and him saying fine, but i've never had a patient on that high of a dose, cause i was still having racing thoughts (mind you i was on 3mgs ativan for sleep, interdose could have been brutal and a big cause). thiking of times i needed 30mgs of zyprexa to drive. Times i needed 2000mgs of depakote to slow me enough to stay in a hotel alone. Albeit i was always a drugged up idiot and not happy, and as i tried to mention, saw ugly depressive existentially ugly things in the the environment, and disgust in people. I often wonder these things, and have an obsessional habit (muscle testing) to see/think if i am. Even though as i also mention, back from detox in middle east, and off of drugs, i felt great, only to have racing thoughts after 5 days, which could have been benzo wd, and much more withdrawal.
On the bright side, I found out that i would have inernet access in the mountains of california.
I had a great interview with a school in south korea yesterday, yeah yeah, i know, traveling to a foreign country and teaching in my state, albeit it's teaching english, and the curriculum is laid out, no teacher planning, i might actually enjoy it greatly, as even now, i love tutoring english online. Maybe having my own autonomay away from my parents. I don't know what would/could aggrivate this, and what could make it better.
As i saw my doc, kind of a jerk, i told him about my idea of going to the mountains in california, and he's like, let's get your stable first. And i'm like WHAT THE HELL IS STABLE???
Ok, i'll stop now
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:01:06
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 11:36:40
>yesterday was lyrica 175mgs 3x, and was planning on the same today. tomorrow, could i go to 200 3x a day? I tolerate fine, and it helps.
I think that would be OK.
I don't suppose you're driving at the moment, are you?
>Personally, i think the slight intoxicated feeling was/is from lyrica, i could be wrong. For sure felt no intoxication from 6mgs of xanax, which would be equivalent.It could be from Lyrica, certainly. Xanax and diazepam are never quite 'equivalent' though, so it is possible that it's due to diazepam.
>I know the sedated, drunk, depressive, irritable feeling from diaz, and this didn't feel like it.
Meds can work differently in combination, so it could be from Lyrica and diazepam together.
>On the bright side, I found out that i would have inernet access in the mountains of california.:)
>I had a great interview with a school in south korea yesterday, yeah yeah, i know, traveling to a foreign country and teaching in my state, albeit it's teaching english, and the curriculum is laid out, no teacher planning, i might actually enjoy it greatly, as even now, i love tutoring english online. Maybe having my own autonomy away from my parents. I don't know what would/could aggrivate this, and what could make it better.
When does the job start?
Once you're on Lyrica 600mg/day, I think you will be able to reduce your daily dose of diazepam by about 5-10mg. You could try taking 15mg - 15mg - 20mg or 20mg - 15mg - 20mg. I don't think the initial reduction will be particularly difficult because in percentage terms it's not a large reduction and also because your current dose is probably higher than you need to suppress withdrawal symptoms. After all, the 60mg/day starting dose was only an estimate.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:04:01
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:33:36
> >Oh yeah, this last years brutal taper, where i had the most rare, severe, and uncommon withdrawal symptoms (perhaps that was MS), going from 30mgs to 17 was brutal. I think there were times where it was 1-2 mgs drops every two weeks.
> >
> > Not sure how i will do it this go round.
>
> Brian,
>
> What symptoms have you experienced which are definitely due to MS? You've not said much about the MS.
>
> I wouldn't expect that reducing by 1mg every two weeks would be brutal unless there was also something else going on. Like you say, this could have been to do with the MS.
>
>Yeah, why the reducing 1mg every 2 weeks was outrageous was beyond me. not being able to leave the apt as i couldn't find my way back. i was in total shock, couldn't barely remember my roomies name. Would sit on the couch in pools of sweat, and do an obsessional habit. couldn't swallow food. Like i mentioned, tried to add an anticonvulsant, in able to slow down a bit, maybe help taper, and leave house, to have them basically give me a breakdown just from things i saw, heard, or someone even saying a word, would give me that existential angst/ugliness etc. My muscle deterioration was incredible, being reduced to nothing. Feeling like i was high, on acid, speed, etc. YES, something else was going on!!!!! Became EXTREMELY chemically sensitive. Tried to add any supplements, if it had any precursor to serotonin, such as tryptophan etc, would make me severely depressed, as SSRIs did/would. Or anything involving dopamine/norep would make me irritable as the psychotropic drugs would. not to mention my experience trying to add trileptal, depakote, tegretol, were horrific memories as well. Reminded me what it was like to see the world through ugly eyes again.
I began to feel like the craziest schizo person around.
Problem is, is that my WD symptoms mimic and are similar to MS symptoms, so what was what?
MS symptoms
vision problems, extreme blurry vision (this has subsided with injections) I'm talking at night, i literally could barely see, car head lights would extend from the ground, all the way to the sky, same as street lights
muscle weakness
muscle loss of tone/deterioration/atrophy
slurred speech/pressured speech (this one lead me to neurologist, along with me being unable to spell simple words)
muscle spasms, random, all day (has subsided with injections, perhaps addition of valium)
I would be up in the middle of the night having to stretch my hamstrings
sometimes issues swallowing
times i get bad chills/shivers
memory issues
male private part issues (my LEAST favorite symptoms, effects 80-90 percent of MS males, thank god for cialis)
would have bad electrical shocks in brain at night (could have been cold turkey, has subsided)
bad tremors in hands, could have been WD
I could not feel sensations in my limbs. EG, I went wandering off in the mountains (not really planning on coming back), only wearing sweats, shoes, jacket, and hat, sludging through snow for hours, i literally could feel NO cold in my legs or feet.The list could probably go on.
I'm supposed to see the neurolosist on the 13th. don't know what to say. i'm not a big fan of his, just as my PDOC
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:11:22
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 8:49:23
But then you look at things like these
http://www.benzo.org.uk/morelistz.htm
The following symptoms may emerge during gradual dosage reduction but can usually be reduced in intensity or eliminated altogether by reducing the rate of reduction:* Anxiety, possible terror and panic attacks[37][40]
* Agitation and restlessness[37]
* Hypochondriasis[37]
* Dilated pupils[5]
* Impaired concentration[40]
* Nightmares[41]
* Insomnia[41]
* Muscular spasms, cramps or fasciculations[42]
* Electric shock sensations[4][43]
* Blurred vision[37]
* Dizziness[37]
* Dry mouth[37]
* Aches and pains[37]
* Hearing impairment[37]
* Taste and smell disturbances[37]
* Chest pain[37]
* Flu like symptoms[37]
* Impaired memory and concentration[37]
* Increased sensitivity to sound[37]
* Increased urinary frequency[37]
* Numbness and tingling[37]
* Hot and cold flushes[37]
* Headache[40]
* Rebound REM sleep[44]
* Stiffness[37]
* Fatigue and weakness[37]
* Hyperosmia[45]
* Restless legs syndrome[11]
* Metallic taste[45]
* Photophobia[45]
* Paranoia[45]
* Hypnagogia-hallucinations[6]
* Nausea and vomiting[41]
* Elevation in blood pressure[46]
* Tachycardia[47]
* Hypertension[48]
* Postural hypotension[41]
* Depression (can be severe),[49][50] possible suicidal ideation
* Tremor[51][52]
* Perspiration[40]
* Loss of appetite and weight loss[53]
* Dysphoria[54][55]
* Depersonalization[56][57]
* Derealisation (Feelings of unreality)[58]
* Obsessive compulsive disorder[59][60]
* Tinnitus[61]
* Paraesthesia[45][57]
* Visual disturbances[57]
* Mood swings[37]
* Indecision[37]
* Gastrointestinal problems (Irritable bowel syndrome)[62][63][64]An abrupt or over-rapid discontinuation of benzodiazepines may result in a more serious and very unpleasant withdrawal syndrome that may additionally result in:
* Convulsions, which may result in death[65][66]
* Catatonia, which may result in death[67][68][69]
* Coma[70] (rare)
* Suicide[3][71][72]
* Attempted suicide[57]
* Suicidal ideation[73]
* Self harm[57]
* Hyperthermia[41]
* Delusions[74]
* Homicide ideations[75]
* Urges to shout, throw, break things or to harm someone[37]
* Violence[76]
* Post Traumatic Stress Disorder[11]
* Organic brain syndrome[77]
* Psychosis[78][79]
* Confusion[36]
* Mania[80][81]
* Neuroleptic malignant syndrome like event[82] (rare)
* Delirium tremens[83][84][85
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:17:08
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:04:01
What type of MS have you been diagnosed with? Will you be getting any other treatment apart from the Copaxone? I assume these meds are covered by insurance. I honestly don't know how things work in the USA.
>male private part issues (my LEAST favorite symptoms, effects 80-90 percent of MS males, thank god for cialis)
You feel like sex at the moment?!
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:23:45
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:01:06
> >yesterday was lyrica 175mgs 3x, and was planning on the same today. tomorrow, could i go to 200 3x a day? I tolerate fine, and it helps.
>
> I think that would be OK.
>
> I don't suppose you're driving at the moment, are you?
>
>
> >Personally, i think the slight intoxicated feeling was/is from lyrica, i could be wrong. For sure felt no intoxication from 6mgs of xanax, which would be equivalent.
>
> It could be from Lyrica, certainly. Xanax and diazepam are never quite 'equivalent' though, so it is possible that it's due to diazepam.
>
> >I know the sedated, drunk, depressive, irritable feeling from diaz, and this didn't feel like it.
>
> Meds can work differently in combination, so it could be from Lyrica and diazepam together.
>
>
> >On the bright side, I found out that i would have inernet access in the mountains of california.
>
> :)
>
> >I had a great interview with a school in south korea yesterday, yeah yeah, i know, traveling to a foreign country and teaching in my state, albeit it's teaching english, and the curriculum is laid out, no teacher planning, i might actually enjoy it greatly, as even now, i love tutoring english online. Maybe having my own autonomy away from my parents. I don't know what would/could aggrivate this, and what could make it better.
>
> When does the job start?
>
> Once you're on Lyrica 600mg/day, I think you will be able to reduce your daily dose of diazepam by about 5-10mg. You could try taking 15mg - 15mg - 20mg or 20mg - 15mg - 20mg. I don't think the initial reduction will be particularly difficult because in percentage terms it's not a large reduction and also because your current dose is probably higher than you need to suppress withdrawal symptoms. After all, the 60mg/day starting dose was only an estimate.
>
>
>
>Once again Ed, you are too kind and considerate.
I don't think that any amount of benzo could cover what my wd symptoms are/were.
Nope, license suspended after DUI last year, which was that moment that realized that the drugs were ruining my life and well being. It was my disgust of being on high dose trileptal and 30mgs of zyprexa (which gives me blackouts sometimes), i tried to tell the judge that, he didn't care
I could drive, but it would cost 300 dollars to get my license back, don't think it's in the cards,
Will go to 600mgs lyrica tomorrow.
Do you think hold 900 trileptal, or any plans of increasing this?
The teaching job in korea could begin in perhaps 2 months, maybe good timing? Like i said, something in my heart/intuition is telling me something dramatic need/is going to happen soon. I've failed so many times in my life with jobs and other things (think abraham lincoln LMAO), that i don't care what happens any more. After these experiences, things like death i have no fear of anymore, which perhaps is always a great subconscious anxiety driver for people. Sometimes i have this thought, maybe delusion, that after suffering this, and going through this, that i'm on the brink of enlightenment LMAO.
In your heart of hearts, think I need off the benzo, and that it's the problem Ed???????
I believe PDOC said hold it at least 2 weeks, and maybe on it long term, but i should give a crap what that guy says. I've worked with him for more than 2 years, and see how far he has gotten me.
I think sometimes taking your health into your own hands, and of knowledgeable persons (ED), is a much greater idea than giving that over to people who barely know you, just wanna see you for 30 mins every month, and hand you out drugs.Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:31:05
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:17:08
> What type of MS have you been diagnosed with? Will you be getting any other treatment apart from the Copaxone? I assume these meds are covered by insurance. I honestly don't know how things work in the USA.
>
> >male private part issues (my LEAST favorite symptoms, effects 80-90 percent of MS males, thank god for cialis)
>
> You feel like sex at the moment?!LMAO.
Like I said Ed, I am addicted to the women, and even during the psychosis, the charisma runs rampant, more sex has been going on now, than ever in my life combined (probably TMI for persons on this board), and even my PDOC is blown away by this fact. Maybe subconsciously it was a drive/desire to procreate, then leave the world, move on to the next realm, which i was told/thought often.
LUCKILY, I get the Copaxone for FREE. On it's own, guess how much it costs, $3,500 per month. I do not know if the Dr will want to add any more drugs/treatments. Perhaps a steriod during a serious flare up, and what else, i dunno.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:43:43
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:23:45
>I don't think that any amount of benzo could cover what my wd symptoms are/were.
I don't know Brian. Not all of your symptoms are caused by withdrawal, only some of them. No amount of any benzo will get rid of all your symptoms, but an appropriate dose should be effective in reducing the withdrawal symptoms.
>I could drive, but it would cost 300 dollars to get my license back, don't think it's in the cards,
I don't think now is the right time. High doses of medication + your underlying condition make driving risky. You might get hurt.
>Do you think hold 900 trileptal, or any plans of increasing this?
I think you should keep it the same for now. It sounds like you've found a reasonable dose, so I don't think you should rock the boat.
>The teaching job in korea could begin in perhaps 2 months, maybe good timing?
A lot can happen in two months. Things could be a lot better then. It's really something that you want to do, isn't it?
>In your heart of hearts, think I need off the benzo, and that it's the problem Ed???????
I think it's part of the problem, but not the only problem. I certainly think that you need to get down to a lower dose. Whether you will stablise on a low dose or withdraw completely, I don't know.
>I believe PDOC said hold it at least 2 weeks, and maybe on it long term, but i should give a crap what that guy says.
Diazepam and its metabolites accumulate due to their long half lives. Your blood level will be substantially higher now than it was on the first day that you went back on it. 2 weeks is a possibility but if you feel signs of sedation or intoxication, you could probably reduce earlier. Like a said, the 60mg/day starting dose was essentially a guess, and it may have been a little bit too high. I think your doc wants to be cautious, which is a good idea, but I don't think it would be a good idea to stay on 60mg/day on a long term basis.
I think you should wait and see how you feel in a few days time. I think you will know whether you are ready to make a small reduction based on how you feel. We're only talking about a small reduction anyway, nothing drastic. You'll still be on a high dose.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:47:09
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:31:05
So who are these women? Don't answer if you don't want to :)
Steroids are often used during exacerbations of MS but they do tend to cause a lot of side effects, including psychiatric side effects. The risk of side effects is certainly minimised by keeping the course short, however.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:59:09
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:31:05
I often think about, and ruminate, over the tons and tons of med combos i tried, just to feel as most humans do every second of every day.
To think how productive i was on a job, and did not fail, on benzos and stimulants, and of course, lots of booze at night, great combo.
One time, i THOUGHT I had it, maybe i did. Trileptal, lyrica, zyprexa, i think celexa (which would still make me irritable, semi derealized, unable to read), but it didn't work, til i added provigil, when i thought provigil was a miracle drug, it put me in the present moment, which i was and never am, stuck in my own head thoughts. And of course my mind/memory, has to point out, i wasn't on benzos then. it loves to do that, to see intrusive images from the past, and say, i wasn't even on benzos then. I was fat, didn't want to do anything other than work, and play video games.
But i felt fine at my best friends' wedding (whom i have alienated now, and don't speak to, after the way i have acted on psychotropic drugs over the years). I could easily have gone and visitedmy family up in san francisco area, which i normall couldn't have.I remember, being on celexa during my valium taper in china, the celexa was BRUTAL to me beyond belief. I could not make the flight home, no way. So we added zyprexa to do so, i slept the whole flight, and i slept some 30 hours when i got home, i remember waking up in the middle of the night, and it was SO calm, it felt like the perfect moment, like it used to feel during xmas when i would visit my parents during college.
Adding the zyprexa, i thought was a miracle, i was looking at the newspaper, looking for local cultural/concerts to go to, thinking about golfing, about doing things i hadn't wanted to do in a LONG time. My spanish PDOC was in china, i wrote to her about zyprexa, WOW Elizabeth, i mean WOW. Then i had to up and up and up, to 30mgs
I wonder if these drugs have any place in my life anymore, as on them, i never saw a future, just an existence, trying to feel ok, trying to get through the day, or if it is time to get clean from them, let the brain return to it's whatever homeostasis it could now figure out, although, you can sense my memory, and the trauma that i've been through. How it would deal or sort that, i don't know.
Once again, i apologize about the ranting.
Once in my life, i wanted to be a writer, philosophy, maybe like nietzsche, some of my fav philosophy writers, and add in some beet writers, a little keroauc, burroughs, bukowski, ginsberg, etc.
But i'm stuck speaking of a horrible psychiatric history, that nobody cares about. I would have been much better off being a functional alcoholic, as i was out of college, while working a prestigous corporate job, although i was derealizaed at the time.
Had i known that the antidepressant, lexapro, was making me super irritable and depressed, as all antidepressants do, had i just dropped the booze and antidepressant so many years ago, how my life would be,,,...hhhhmmmm
I THOUGHT Paxil saved my life at age 19, when 3-4 brutal panic attacks were going on, had severe agoraphobia, couldn't leave the house w/o drinking. Thumbing through my psychology textbook during college, i saw "panic disorder", and i vividly remember putting my finger on it. Saw a shrink, put on paxil, all was well, it went away, it stopped, life resumed.
In retrospect, i should have simply saw a psychologist. What 19 year old, who in Seattle, was the popular jock in high school, then moves to college in san diego, near mexico, where i become the outcast, made fun of, picked on, and of course the underclassmen baseball players had to do a lot of crap.
What person wouldn't begin panic attacks? Although yes, i had an affinity for panic attacks when smoking ocassional marijuana in HS. My first panic attack was at age 15, and they were an annual thing. I had no clue what they were. I was just under the assumption that people lost their crap every once in a while.
Once again, have i apologized for writing so much crap that nobody cares about?
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:05:20
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:47:09
> So who are these women? Don't answer if you don't want to :)
>
> Steroids are often used during exacerbations of MS but they do tend to cause a lot of side effects, including psychiatric side effects. The risk of side effects is certainly minimised by keeping the course short, however.LOL
Well at first, when i went to the hospital for a CT/MRI, where they initially thought it was a blood clot.
I had this odd sensation in my head, this pressure, i told them MAKE this go away, and i promise you that i can think again, and not just hear my own voice.
My neuro started me off with a 12 day steriod treatment before copaxon, to see if we could rid ths sensation in my head.Oh, these women.
Seeing as i'm not drinking, and going out to bars/clubs, and that i am not part of the local religion in Utah, Mormanism, I use some pretty good dating websites.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:17:55
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 12:43:43
> >I don't think that any amount of benzo could cover what my wd symptoms are/were.
>
> I don't know Brian. Not all of your symptoms are caused by withdrawal, only some of them. No amount of any benzo will get rid of all your symptoms, but an appropriate dose should be effective in reducing the withdrawal symptoms.
>
> >I could drive, but it would cost 300 dollars to get my license back, don't think it's in the cards,
>
> I don't think now is the right time. High doses of medication + your underlying condition make driving risky. You might get hurt.
>
> >Do you think hold 900 trileptal, or any plans of increasing this?
>
> I think you should keep it the same for now. It sounds like you've found a reasonable dose, so I don't think you should rock the boat.
>
> >The teaching job in korea could begin in perhaps 2 months, maybe good timing?
>
> A lot can happen in two months. Things could be a lot better then. It's really something that you want to do, isn't it?
>
> >In your heart of hearts, think I need off the benzo, and that it's the problem Ed???????
>
> I think it's part of the problem, but not the only problem. I certainly think that you need to get down to a lower dose. Whether you will stablise on a low dose or withdraw completely, I don't know.
>
> >I believe PDOC said hold it at least 2 weeks, and maybe on it long term, but i should give a crap what that guy says.
>
> Diazepam and its metabolites accumulate due to their long half lives. Your blood level will be substantially higher now than it was on the first day that you went back on it. 2 weeks is a possibility but if you feel signs of sedation or intoxication, you could probably reduce earlier. Like a said, the 60mg/day starting dose was essentially a guess, and it may have been a little bit too high. I think your doc wants to be cautious, which is a good idea, but I don't think it would be a good idea to stay on 60mg/day on a long term basis.
>
> I think you should wait and see how you feel in a few days time. I think you will know whether you are ready to make a small reduction based on how you feel. We're only talking about a small reduction anyway, nothing drastic. You'll still be on a high dose.
>
>
>
>
>
>Yes Ed, overseas teaching has always been my dream. It sucked in China, cause was in benzo wd, and adding ADs was NOT fun, plus i can remember thngs that would have been MS symptoms, that i just assumed was benzo wd, serious CNS issues.
In the middle east teaching, i was abusing benzos, ambien, stimulants (just to keep my head above water), depakote (which makes me retarded so that i can't even read, and would even be confused in a grocery store, even at low doses), etc etc. When first diagnosed bipolar, and put on 1000mgs of depakote, i lost my job w/ in a week because of my cognitivei problems, and in inability to understand the most simple concepts.I can't even begin to tell you how great the lifestyle is. Great pay, tax free, they pay for your housing, which is typically a plush apartment, paid healthcare, 3 months vacation, doing something positive, travel, new experiences, new cultures. When you are single with no kids, why the hell not?
Not all of my symptoms are caused by cold turkey wd? I've never had anything near psychosis or schizophrenic symptoms in my life. What else would it be?
I don't care about driving right now. What is my underlying condition? I F-ING hate that term. If benzos are only part of the problem, what do you think the others are?
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:23:34
In reply to this is long, and you won't want to read it, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 12:59:09
I did read it. It wasn't so long :)
The thing is, Brian, you've been on so many meds at different times and in different combinations, it's difficult to know what the individual meds were actually doing.
What would you be like if all your meds were gradually withdrawn? I'm not sure. It could be important to find out?
I think the best psychiatrist for you would be one who has a realistic view of medication ie. someone who understands that meds can help, but that they can also harm. Some psychiatrists seem to have an unrealistically rosy impression of medication, and don't spot the side effects.
I don't think that benzos are your only problem. There's also the MS, and the possibility that you have inherited a susceptibility to psych problems from your parents. Your home environment sounds unhealthy and I think you need to get out of there. The traumas that you have been through must play on your mind, and that is not going to be easy to deal with.
If you'd never taken meds in the first place, I do think that things would be different, but I don't think you would be free of psych problems. Some of us are susceptible to these things. It's not too late to see a psychologist by the way, do you think it would help you?
And stop apologising for writing. There's no need to!
> I often think about, and ruminate, over the tons and tons of med combos i tried, just to feel as most humans do every second of every day.
>
> To think how productive i was on a job, and did not fail, on benzos and stimulants, and of course, lots of booze at night, great combo.
>
> One time, i THOUGHT I had it, maybe i did. Trileptal, lyrica, zyprexa, i think celexa (which would still make me irritable, semi derealized, unable to read), but it didn't work, til i added provigil, when i thought provigil was a miracle drug, it put me in the present moment, which i was and never am, stuck in my own head thoughts. And of course my mind/memory, has to point out, i wasn't on benzos then. it loves to do that, to see intrusive images from the past, and say, i wasn't even on benzos then. I was fat, didn't want to do anything other than work, and play video games.
> But i felt fine at my best friends' wedding (whom i have alienated now, and don't speak to, after the way i have acted on psychotropic drugs over the years). I could easily have gone and visitedmy family up in san francisco area, which i normall couldn't have.
>
> I remember, being on celexa during my valium taper in china, the celexa was BRUTAL to me beyond belief. I could not make the flight home, no way. So we added zyprexa to do so, i slept the whole flight, and i slept some 30 hours when i got home, i remember waking up in the middle of the night, and it was SO calm, it felt like the perfect moment, like it used to feel during xmas when i would visit my parents during college.
>
> Adding the zyprexa, i thought was a miracle, i was looking at the newspaper, looking for local cultural/concerts to go to, thinking about golfing, about doing things i hadn't wanted to do in a LONG time. My spanish PDOC was in china, i wrote to her about zyprexa, WOW Elizabeth, i mean WOW. Then i had to up and up and up, to 30mgs
>
> I wonder if these drugs have any place in my life anymore, as on them, i never saw a future, just an existence, trying to feel ok, trying to get through the day, or if it is time to get clean from them, let the brain return to it's whatever homeostasis it could now figure out, although, you can sense my memory, and the trauma that i've been through. How it would deal or sort that, i don't know.
>
> Once again, i apologize about the ranting.
>
> Once in my life, i wanted to be a writer, philosophy, maybe like nietzsche, some of my fav philosophy writers, and add in some beet writers, a little keroauc, burroughs, bukowski, ginsberg, etc.
>
> But i'm stuck speaking of a horrible psychiatric history, that nobody cares about. I would have been much better off being a functional alcoholic, as i was out of college, while working a prestigous corporate job, although i was derealizaed at the time.
>
> Had i known that the antidepressant, lexapro, was making me super irritable and depressed, as all antidepressants do, had i just dropped the booze and antidepressant so many years ago, how my life would be,,,...hhhhmmmm
>
> I THOUGHT Paxil saved my life at age 19, when 3-4 brutal panic attacks were going on, had severe agoraphobia, couldn't leave the house w/o drinking. Thumbing through my psychology textbook during college, i saw "panic disorder", and i vividly remember putting my finger on it. Saw a shrink, put on paxil, all was well, it went away, it stopped, life resumed.
>
> In retrospect, i should have simply saw a psychologist. What 19 year old, who in Seattle, was the popular jock in high school, then moves to college in san diego, near mexico, where i become the outcast, made fun of, picked on, and of course the underclassmen baseball players had to do a lot of crap.
>
> What person wouldn't begin panic attacks? Although yes, i had an affinity for panic attacks when smoking ocassional marijuana in HS. My first panic attack was at age 15, and they were an annual thing. I had no clue what they were. I was just under the assumption that people lost their crap every once in a while.
>
> Once again, have i apologized for writing so much crap that nobody cares about?
>
> Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:33:55
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:17:55
>Not all of my symptoms are caused by cold turkey wd? I've never had anything near psychosis or schizophrenic symptoms in my life. What else would it be?
The psychotic symptoms are not your only symptoms though. There's also been the hypomania, depression and panic attacks. You said that you had some psych symptoms before you ever took benzos in the first place.
>What is my underlying condition? I F-ING hate that term.Sorry. I know it's often used as a way of 'blaming the patient' for symptoms which are actually caused by meds. Anyway :) I think you have underlying anxiety, since you had some panic attacks even before you took your first med. I also think that there is the possibility of a mood disorder, due to the hypomanic episodes. And then there's the MS, your most obvious underlying condition.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:35:54
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:05:20
>Seeing as i'm not drinking, and going out to bars/clubs, and that i am not part of the local religion in Utah, Mormanism, I use some pretty good dating websites.
I don't often use dating websites. Sometimes I'm happy being single, sometimes not.
I'm not at all religious, perhaps I should avoid visiting Utah :)
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:46:28
In reply to Re: this is long, and you won't want to read it, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:23:34
> I did read it. It wasn't so long :)
>
> The thing is, Brian, you've been on so many meds at different times and in different combinations, it's difficult to know what the individual meds were actually doing.
>
> What would you be like if all your meds were gradually withdrawn? I'm not sure. It could be important to find out?
>
> I think the best psychiatrist for you would be one who has a realistic view of medication ie. someone who understands that meds can help, but that they can also harm. Some psychiatrists seem to have an unrealistically rosy impression of medication, and don't spot the side effects.
>
> I don't think that benzos are your only problem. There's also the MS, and the possibility that you have inherited a susceptibility to psych problems from your parents. Your home environment sounds unhealthy and I think you need to get out of there. The traumas that you have been through must play on your mind, and that is not going to be easy to deal with.
>
> If you'd never taken meds in the first place, I do think that things would be different, but I don't think you would be free of psych problems. Some of us are susceptible to these things. It's not too late to see a psychologist by the way, do you think it would help you?
>
> And stop apologising for writing. There's no need to!I wish i had healthcare/insurance to see a psychologist. I think CBT could help greatly. I don't think me on a couch, going in for hundreds of sessions, going over my experiences, and perhaps how my parents were growing up would do me help, perhaps just keep it at the front of my mind
I tried to see one in China, but it didn't help, you know why, psychiatric drugs, Celexa, I couldn't F-ING see her, I'm like, I'm derealized out of my mind.
Yes, i need out of home.
did you see my writings from 5 years ago, when i was begging to get off benzos, which were the only drug i was on, and i knew were causing the probs, and PDOCS would say, no it's not (pdocs are ignorant of benzo tolerance, interdose, and wd in general), try this drug, and i'd have horrible reactions to them,,,,..ALL. I was/am far to chemically sensitive in my mind to take psychiatric drugs (maybe not lyrica lol, it doesn't seem to mind that).
But lyrica and a stimulant didn't seem that bad of a combo, LOL.
Yes, there are some docs near by, that i think may be far more appropriate, such as the karma integrative psychiatrist, who also teaches at the zen buddhist teaching center that i greatly enjoy. They are much more meticulous, careful, and hesitant with meds, and perhaps much more intuitive, if you believe in anything like that.
Seeing a doc with a view that meds can cause great harm would be wonderful. Maybe even ones that think that they can ruin lives LOL. Peter Breggins writing doesn't seem that far fetched to me anymore, and tom cruise doesn't seem as crazy, after my experiences. As Bregging writes, the brains reacts to the drugs as if it is a brutal/chemical assult to it, and that seems how mine reacts.
Mind you, meds work wonders, and save lives for millions, i'll give you that, so i'm not avidly against it. Maybe that's why ECT helped me more than meds did, as in theory, helps the brain "reset" itself.PS- My Zen teacher lives in London now Ed, perhaps I should visit the both of you:)
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 14:07:35
In reply to Re: this is long, and you won't want to read it, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 13:46:28
>I wish i had healthcare/insurance to see a psychologist. I think CBT could help greatly. I don't think me on a couch, going in for hundreds of sessions, going over my experiences, and perhaps how my parents were growing up would do me help, perhaps just keep it at the front of my mind.
I think you're right about that. Hardly anyone has health insurance here because it's not necessary. How do you get it?
>I tried to see one in China, but it didn't help, you know why, psychiatric drugs, Celexa, I couldn't F-ING see her, I'm like, I'm derealized out of my mind.I don't think any kind of therapy is likely to help when you're so ill that you can't effectively engage with the therapy.
>karma integrative psychiatrist
I have to be honest Brian. I have no idea what one of those is!
>Peter Breggins writing doesn't seem that far fetched to me anymore.......
I don't think you'd want to see a doctor like Breggin. You need someone with a balanced viewpoint. I think that's essential.
>Maybe that's why ECT helped me more than meds did, as in theory, helps the brain "reset" itself.
I don't think Breggin is too positive about ECT either. Did you suffer any side effects from it?
>My Zen teacher lives in London now Ed, perhaps I should visit the both of you:)
I think you'd find me boring. I even bore myself sometimes. I wish I was a more interesting person. And no, I'm not depressed, I'm just realistic :)
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 14:18:32
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:33:55
> The psychotic symptoms are not your only symptoms though. There's also been the hypomania, depression and panic attacks. You said that you had some psych symptoms before you ever took benzos in the first place.Ed, the hypomania, and depressive feeling are/were both caused by trileptal, i promise you that. They wouldn't/weren't there w/o it. I am/have not been having any panic attacks. My body/promised me it wouldn't have anymore, and that i didn't have the option to have one once i had gone CT on the benzos:) I haven't had a panic attack in a long time, maybe years ago while abusing stimulants. BTW, who with anxiety, would abuse stimulants? But maybe if you have benzos and booze to counter it, some would.
I only took the benzos for derealization, no other psych issues at the time.
Yes, I had panic "disorder" at age 20, which quickly went into remission after using paxil. Then there was my 8 hour panic attack of depersonalization, where i'm on my hands and knees in the shower, and banging my head on the toilet seat, because i couldn't feel anything.
IMO, had i not been on an antidepressant and abusing alcohol, those problems would not have been there. That plus living in western civilization cultures. As our brains are designed to live in hunter/gatherer lifestyles, why/who the hell wouldn't develop "psychiatric", "psychological" issues (sorry, i was an anthro major, with emphasis on genetics, cultures, and evolution, both cultural and social)?
Could it be the world you live in, that is greatly going against how your brain and genetics are designed to live, and not the person?
If our genetics are designed to be living in say packs of about 30 persons whom the know well or so, and now, a person goes to a football game, where there are 100,000 strangers, and they have a panic attack, or "social anxiety", sorry, BS. Of course it's not the situation, they have "issues", psychological and psychiatric, and a "chemical imbalance". Come on!I did have peter pan syndrome, didn't want to grow up, and how no clue what to do after graduating college, i'll give you that. What am i supposed to do? be like the rest of the herd of sheep and cattle and just get a corporate job, pay bills, and do things on the weekends to prepare for the week? sounded like fun,didn't fit who i was/am. I almost bailed with the peace corps. I should have, but i had a big car payment on my lexus, that i had to buy, because i was a writer for a bank.
Being an anthropology major, i spoke to many of my professors who worked with various tribes from around the world, and i always inquired, that if i just got up and moved to say Africa, would that particular tribe accept me, so that i could live a more "natural" life that my brain is designed for. They usually said yes, and it weighed on my mind's idea, and in retrospect, wish I had:)
> Sorry. I know it's often used as a way of 'blaming the patient' for symptoms which are actually caused by meds. Anyway :) I think you have underlying anxiety, since you had some panic attacks even before you took your first med. I also think that there is the possibility of a mood disorder, due to the hypomanic episodes. And then there's the MS, your most obvious underlying condition.I never experienced anything like hypomania/mania until i was given lexapro.
For the time being, it is trileptal that is inducing the hypomania.
Lamictal would induce mixed mood episodes
All the ADs would make me cry, give me racing thoughts, give me derealization, and increase obsessional habits, and give me mixed moods.
So many great memories of being in bed, crying with depression, and having racing thoughts at the same time.
Much/most of this is/was at my parents house, so i see it in images. Tough to take. Even skimming through the movie channels, i would/can remember what drug i was on when i saw that movie, and how i felt at that time. SO enjoyableWith all of my wonderful seemingly adverse and opposite reactions to drugs/meds, what am I supposed to take? Maybe illegal ones:)
Ed, are you more annoyed and irritated by my writing, or entertained?
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 14:21:44
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 14:18:32
>Ed, are you more annoyed and irritated by my writing, or entertained?
None of the above. I'm interested.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 5, 2010, at 14:24:01
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 5, 2010, at 13:35:54
> >Seeing as i'm not drinking, and going out to bars/clubs, and that i am not part of the local religion in Utah, Mormanism, I use some pretty good dating websites.
>
> I don't often use dating websites. Sometimes I'm happy being single, sometimes not.
>
> I'm not at all religious, perhaps I should avoid visiting Utah :)Ed, if you don't mind me asking, what is your age?
I've been happy being single and away from women for the past couple of years, I don't know what this latest addiction is coming from.
Utah is very beautiful. Amazing for skiing if you enjoy that. Also, other outdoor activities, such as mountain biking and rock climbing.
Seeing how utah breeds extremes, the person who are not mormon, are typically very cool and unique, which is a bonus.
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