![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 26 to 50 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 1, 2010, at 19:49:49
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
> > > > After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me.
> >
> > >
> > > Be sure you're not confusing symptoms with the 'real you'. Drugs do little to take away from the basic person you are and are really designed to eliminate the symptoms of mental illness which do much more to abscond the 'real you' than the side effects of most drugs. I can not function as the 'real' me without Lithium, period. I lose myself to the symptoms of my illness without a simple metal.
> >
> >
> > I understand where you are coming from
> > Phidippus....but I must say in my case and in testimonies of others I have read about and posted with....long term PDrugs can and do have an effect on ones basic personality.
> > I think it stands to reason that by ingesting Meds that dull the responses to Life, a person will "adjust" to these dulling effects by incorporating new responses and thinking patterns in response to Life's challenges, after years and years of antidepressants, tranquilizers and mood stabilizers.
> >
> > At least I believe that is true in my case.
> >
> > The Meds we take take have a blanket effect on our nervous system, and our reaction to Life.
> > That is the purpose for many of these Meds.
> > To compensate or lessen our bodies OVER-REACTION to stress, trauma , and misplaced thinking patterns.
> > They DO serve their purpose by dampening our CNS
> > so we can deal with reality and our problems, challenges and attain our Goals.
> > Unfortunately....these Meds cannot be "turned-off" selectively...we cannot get properly excited when something great happens in our life...nor do we fall into a suicidal despair when things done go our way.
> > PDrugs are a mixed bag...and we take the good with the bad.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Does the cancer patient lose themselves to the bone-burning effects of their chemotherapy? No, but when the cancer spreads to their brain, they certainly do. We mentally disabled may not have cancer encroaching on our minds, but instead were born with inadequacies instilled in our thinking organ and those inadequacies can cripple us in an instant. We toil with invisible disabilities and need medication just as much as the sufferer of MS.
> > >
> > > Without medication we can't be ourselves, otherwise riddled with anxiety, fending off voices or riding the waves of impossible emotions. An array of pills are available to us and more than likely we choose the pills that make us feel best and suit our basic selves. Pills can never make us something we are not because we reject those that make us feel not-ourselves.
> >
> > Again...you raise some excellent points!
> > I believe in many cases these drugs are every bit as life saving as insulin to the diabetic.
> > Many are predisposed to severe mental illness that history records drove them to an untimely grave or worse.
> >
> > I guess I need to find out if I can be one that functions without them.
> > Maybe I cannot...but I feel I must try.
> >
> >
> > > P
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your insight, and I will keep you posted
> >
> > BF
> >
> >
>
> This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated. Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds. Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs.
> You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
>
> You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?
>bd2,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In,[...This xxxxxxxxx with the real you/me...], what criteria do you use to write that the member's wanting to return to a life before taking chemicals for 10 years is an xxxxxxxxx? If it is an xxxxxxxxx, could you post here as to as if it is a good xxxxxxxx or not?
B In,[...are you afraid of offending God?...], could you post here what criteria you used to write that, and what God you are referring to, and what siginificance it could be if the member is or is not afraid of offending a God that they may cherish and worship and give service to, and not want to offend that God?
C. In,[...you appear to feel guilty about being on...]
Could you post here what criteria you used to write that guilt is apparent to you? If so, could that guilt be good or not?
D. In,[...tell us what is the real issue...], (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
> This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds."Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!"Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.> You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
>
> You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may haveBF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
I felt I should add the following...The side-effects of weight gain, itching, brain fog increased blood pressure and irregular heart beat since being on pristiq, have promptd me to take this step.
Although my mood is stable.....the above mentioned side effects are not healthy....and have been getting worse since starting this Med back in August of 2009.BF
Posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 8:52:42
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
> I felt I should add the following...The side-effects of weight gain, itching, brain fog increased blood pressure and irregular heart beat since being on pristiq, have promptd me to take this step.
> Although my mood is stable.....the above mentioned side effects are not healthy....and have been getting worse since starting this Med back in August of 2009.
>
> BFBF,
As an aside, congratulations on your team winning.
Anyway, during your tapering when you have doubts about what you are doing and you will no matter how positive you try to be, I would refer back to this post to remind yourself why you are tapering.
Reminding myself of the horrendous side effects these meds caused me has worked great when I reached points in my tapering where I wondered if it was worth it.
You also might tell yourself that you have no choice but to succeed in light of these side effects. That definitely was a prime motivator for me to to be successful in tapering.
I know what I am about to say is controversial but I don't think you're going to find psych meds that won't cause these problems. Maybe you'll eliminate a few of the side effects but for the most part, they definitely cause issues after long term use.
Of course, I realize some people might decide that is still an acceptable tradeoff and I totally respect that. But I am sensing that for you, it isn't.
You can do this.
49er
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2010, at 11:31:07
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by bulldog2 on January 1, 2010, at 18:00:25
"After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me."
I understand this sentiment, and agree that it can occur. However, I would also take into consideration that 12 years is a long time. People can change quite a bit as the decades pass. People evolve. I don't think you would be the same "you" now as you were then, even were you not to have taken psychotropic medication. Even if you have lost elements of your temperament and personality, it may be that these things return relatively quickly with the passage of time. You are in a different place now than you were then. I know it is very tempting to compare now versus then, but perhaps it is a good time to look forward and allow yourself to discover and nurture a new "you" as you proceed.
In what ways are you different?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2010, at 11:44:14
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 8:01:09
.
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 13:17:57
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » janejane, posted by 49er on December 31, 2009, at 10:42:44
> > 49er... are you med-free now? How do you control your symptoms?>>
>
> I wish:).
>
> I take fish oil capsules and a multivitamin.
>
> Also, I use forms of self CBT.
>
> By the way, I realize not everyone can do this and I don't mean to imply that just because I can, everyone should be able to .
>
> 49erIf you don't mind my asking, what was your diagnosis, and how severe were your symptoms? Did you ever experiment with aminos, St. John's Wort, other supplements? Thanks!
Posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 13:57:06
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » 49er, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 13:17:57
> If you don't mind my asking, what was your diagnosis, and how severe were your symptoms? Did you ever experiment with aminos, St. John's Wort, other supplements? Thanks!
Hi JaneJane,I become depressed do to not knowing how to deal with certain situations. If someone had given me that guidance, I feel I could have avoided psych meds.
I would say I had moderate depression that was greatly worsened by Prozac which then became even worse due to doubling the dose and then being CTd off of it. But eventually, I did stabalize on various antidepressants.
Funny you mention SJW because when I became very frustrated with the side effects of SSRIS, I decided to try it. It worked for about 3 years before I think all my psych meds started pooping out. I didn't realize what was going on at the time.
I tried Travacor for sleep but it did nothing. That is the only thing I have tried as far as taking aminos by themselves. They may be in my current multivitamin but I am not sure.
I have also tried whey protein but it didn't do any anything for me. I have also tried phosphatidylserine which helped. But the problem is my body seems to get used to it pretty quickly and it becomes less effective.
I wish I could find an alternative health practitioner I trusted. But unfortunately, I haven't been able to do so I am kind of on my own as far as experimenting.
Have you tried supplements and if so, what have you found to be useful?
49er
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 15:22:33
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » janejane, posted by 49er on January 2, 2010, at 13:57:06
49er-
I suppose my path has been similar to your own, though I appear to be struggling quite a bit more. Was on meds for over 10 years but discontinued last January and have been experimenting with various supplements since then... I've been trying to get up the gumption to start a thread on the alternative board about what I've been doing, but somehow it seems like a monster task so I've been putting it off. Maybe soon, though, since you've expressed an interest.
-Jane
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 20:05:23
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » 49er, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 15:22:33
I truly would love you to start the thread. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 2, 2010, at 7:48:57
> > This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
>
>
> Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
> Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
> Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds.
>
>
>
> "Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
>
>
>
> Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
> Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
> However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
> Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
> Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
> Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
> These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.
>
> PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
>
> While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
> Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
> This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
> Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!
>
>
>
> "Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> > Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"
>
>
>
> Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
> I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.
>
>
>
> > You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
> >
> > You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
>
>
> I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
> Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may have
>
> BF
>
BF,
You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such.
There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.
This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.
Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
Lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 21:38:32
In reply to Lou's response- benzowithdrawal » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
Hi Lou I seem to be able to just lower benzos after 40 years of use with no withdrawal strange no? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on January 2, 2010, at 22:06:08
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by 49er on January 1, 2010, at 9:10:54
BF, I'm very interested in your taper, and I do hope you post updates.
I've heard prozac is easier to taper than pristiq. (I take 50 pristiq.) I switched from lexapro to prozac w/o a hitch. (Now I regret signing on for pristq!)
49er, does the 10% rule hold for prozac as well?
Thanks,
fb
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 3, 2010, at 4:21:06
In reply to Lou's response- benzowithdrawal » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
> > > This obsession with the real you/me really baffles me. I think this concept is overrated.
> >
> >
> > Hi Bulldog2,..thanks for your response. I disagree with your "overated" statement. There is clearly a difference in my personality now...and that of my pre-Med years. I cannot speak for others,but if you re-read my "blanket effect" term of trying to describe the effects of PMeds, maybe it will shed some light on my real me comments.
> > Perhaps I could call it the Old me/ Current me..to better decribe what I am feeling and thinking.
> > Even when I take into consideration the years that have passed, and the changes any person would go through over a 12 year period....I am still faced with the FACT that my emotions, thought processes,reactions to life, and internal mental discourse...have been changed by the dampening effect of PMeds.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Has it ever occurred to you that the real you may be a mentally ill person with depression. I don't know but that may be the case. People born without legs wear prosthetic ones. Are they changing the real you? The deaf often get implants to help them experience sounds."..
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...I am aware that I have had anxiety issues for as long as I can remember, way before I introduced PMeds into my system.
> > Having grown up in an alcoholic family ...I know that my early years were affected by fear and uncertainty.
> > However...my experiences of early trauma are MILD compared to those who have suffered through real hard core trauma and actual physical and mental abuse.
> > Next, in considering the comparison between physical helps and medical advances for those with physical injuries.....and Medication for those who suffer mental, emotional and phycological damage...I believe there is a difference.
> > Hearing Implants are clearly shown to improve the hearing ability of the deaf.
> > Prostetics are tremendous inventions to take the place of missing limbs.
> > These are clear-cut examples of physical limitations overcome by actual physical substitutes that closelt resemble the missing body parts.
> >
> > PMeds,...I believe....are a different.
> >
> > While the same "attempt" is made by medical science, to repair, replace, or emulate something lacking in brain chemicals....we just do not currently have enough knowledge to understand the internal workings of the human brain.
> > Especially in the case of AD's...the labeling and definitions FROM THE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES AND THE PHYSICIANS clearly use terms like "..this medication is THOUGHT TO WORK on certain brain chemicals.....etc.. and "WHILE THE EXACT ACTION IS UNKNOWN"...etc..
> > This indicates that we just do not know for certain how these medication work.
> > Let me hasten to add that I am a fellow sufferer and fellow user of these medications...and my comments are in no way intended to make anyone feel bad, or to minimize the help these medication have been and continue to be for many!
> >
> >
> >
> > "Are you afraid you are offending God? For me the reality is life is about being as happy as I can be and if I require assistance so be it.
> > > Nature is not always kind in her creations. The real you may not be a happy person. Just take whatever path makes you feel good wether it is drug free or on drugs"
> >
> >
> >
> > Not quite sure where God was mentioned in my posts...but as I stated, I have trouble focusing and remembering...so maybe I brought it up elswhere. In any event, I would like to say I am a strong believer in God, and am thankful for His Son The Lord Jesus.~
> > I understand where you are coming from concerning being happy...and I would agree that medical assitance and advancements have added to the quality of Life for all of us...and for that I am thankful.
> >
> >
> >
> > > You appear to feel guilty about being on meds. There is an undercurrent of that in your posts. If it turns out you need meds well that is the real you making the decision. Try being med free if you wish. But you are not required by any edict other than the opinions of others to be on or off of drugs. If you really don't want to go off of drugs than don't feel compelled to go off.
> > >
> > > You have posted this multiple times and you get the same answers. So tell us what is the real issue.Is there something else other than what you have told us?"
> >
> >
> > I do not believe I am witholding any other information. I am certainly not confident that I can become drug-free. I may have used these Meds too often for too long to be able to stop now...we will see.
> > Thank you for your thought-provoking posts Bulldog2....I appreciate your interest and any follow up you may have
> >
> > BF
> >
> BF,
> You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
> If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such.
> There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
> There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
> Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.
> This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.
> Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
> Lou
>
> > BF,
Here is a link that has much infomation that could help you with understanding the aspects of withdrawal from benzodiazepines.
Lou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 3, 2010, at 5:01:14
In reply to New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on December 31, 2009, at 8:09:10
> First I would like to wish ALL a Happy New Year!
> Though we are all from different places and in various stages of dealing with our mental health issues, I am grateful to Dr Bob for this site, and for the input and help I have received over the years from those that share on this site.
>
> It is my goal to once again become Med Free in 2010.
>
> Please excuse me if these questions are redundant,
> I do have trouble remembering my previous posts.
>
> I am on 50mgs Pristiq...25 mgs of Librium...and 100 mgs of Trazadone at bedtime.
> Which Med should I taper first? Second?
>
> I am tired of the side-effects of long term drug use. I dont recommend this approach to others...nor do I know if it is the right thing for me to do...but I just have to TRY and see if I can function Drug-Free.
>
> After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me.
>
> My primary fear is two-fold.
> The "real me" may no longer exist....and the current "real me" may not be the me I think I should be.
>
> Number 2.....IF I have to reinstate, there appears to be ample evidence that the same drugs may not work upon reinstatement.
>
> Again...I know there is no way of knowing if I can successfully do this....nor do i claim this to be advisable.
>
> But I just need to try.
> I need to KNOW.
>
> BFBF,
Here is a link to infomation concerning benzodiazepine withdraweal. I would look at this for I think it could be of help...
Lou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:00:45
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » bulldog2, posted by SLS on January 2, 2010, at 11:31:07
> "After more than 12 years of benzo's and anti-depressants, I feel I have lost too much of the real me."
>
> I understand this sentiment, and agree that it can occur. However, I would also take into consideration that 12 years is a long time. People can change quite a bit as the decades pass. People evolve. I don't think you would be the same "you" now as you were then, even were you not to have taken psychotropic medication. Even if you have lost elements of your temperament and personality, it may be that these things return relatively quickly with the passage of time. You are in a different place now than you were then. I know it is very tempting to compare now versus then, but perhaps it is a good time to look forward and allow yourself to discover and nurture a new "you" as you proceed.
>
> In what ways are you different?
>
>
> - ScottYou are right Scott.
The "old me' does not exist. I have been thinking about this before I read your post. Time marches on...things change...different life experiences occur, and we adapt, grow and "change".
I will try and keep this in mind, and look to discover the "current me",,,WITHOUT the effects of Meds.How was I different before PMeds?
More filled with life and vigor.
More motivated...better able to concentrate. I was able to feel the appropriate emotion at the appropriate time ( good and bad emotions)
And while not always pleasant...at least I knew the feelings were genuine, and not being interfered with by the tranquilizing effects of Meds.
Mostly what I miss though....is the thrill of life, a zest for living and accomplishing. My once fast paced, high energy personality has been replaced with a withdrawn, cautious "safe" styling of living that refusue to take normal risks...interact socially with others properly..and ..well ...get EXCITED about anything? Does that make sense?BF
Posted by 49er on January 3, 2010, at 8:06:52
In reply to BF + 49er: prozac taper » 49er, posted by floatingbridge on January 2, 2010, at 22:06:08
> BF, I'm very interested in your taper, and I do hope you post updates.
>
> I've heard prozac is easier to taper than pristiq. (I take 50 pristiq.) I switched from lexapro to prozac w/o a hitch. (Now I regret signing on for pristq!)
>
> 49er, does the 10% rule hold for prozac as well?
>
> Thanks,
>
> fbYes,
And because Prozac has a long half life, you might want to wait a minimum of 4 weeks before tapering vs. 3 weeks for other drugs. The reason for waiting is it might take longer for the withdrawal symptoms to show up due to the long half life.
By the way, I have see advice from psychiatrists stating Prozac can be stopped cold turkey. When I did that, I became suicidal.
Not that one experience proves anything but many people have had problems stopping Prozac too quickly. Again, they aren't part of a study so take it for what it is worth.
In my opinion, it is simply better to be safe than sorry.
49er
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:08:52
In reply to Lou's response- benzowithdrawal » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on January 2, 2010, at 20:31:17
BF,
You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
"If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such. There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
Lou"
Yes Lou..I have read many post from the UK Site you mentioned. Thank you for the tip on the Benzowise person in Columbus...do you happen to know her e-mail address or how to contact her? Is she a Doctor?
Since anxiety was my primary diagnosis...the benzo's have been my main line of defense against panic and agoraphobia. And since I have not had these problems SINCE being on benzo's..I imagine it will be very tough for me to learn to live without them totally.BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:13:10
In reply to Re: BF + 49er: prozac taper » floatingbridge, posted by 49er on January 3, 2010, at 8:06:52
> > BF, I'm very interested in your taper, and I do hope you post updates.
> >
> > I've heard prozac is easier to taper than pristiq. (I take 50 pristiq.) I switched from lexapro to prozac w/o a hitch. (Now I regret signing on for pristq!)
> >
> > 49er, does the 10% rule hold for prozac as well?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > fb
>
> Yes,
>
> And because Prozac has a long half life, you might want to wait a minimum of 4 weeks before tapering vs. 3 weeks for other drugs. The reason for waiting is it might take longer for the withdrawal symptoms to show up due to the long half life.
>
> By the way, I have see advice from psychiatrists stating Prozac can be stopped cold turkey. When I did that, I became suicidal.
>
> Not that one experience proves anything but many people have had problems stopping Prozac too quickly. Again, they aren't part of a study so take it for what it is worth.
>
> In my opinion, it is simply better to be safe than sorry.
>
> 49er
Thanks 49er...and since we are on the subject, I have another question. I am already experiencing difficulty in tapering the Pristiq. The 50mg pill is obvioulsy not menat to be cut...even with a pill cutter. I know Effexor is basically the same Med, so what is the group's opinion on me doing on of two things:1) Switching to Effexor and then tape.
2) Reinstating my Zoloft script that worked so well for so many years...and gradually taper it instead.
BF
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2010, at 8:25:53
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:00:45
> Mostly what I miss though....is the thrill of life, a zest for living and accomplishing. My once fast paced, high energy personality has been replaced with a withdrawn, cautious "safe" styling of living that refusue to take normal risks...interact socially with others properly..and ..well ...get EXCITED about anything? Does that make sense?
Yes.
I think you can recapture those things in time, once any residual anhedonia and amotivation dissipates. Remember, this illness has been pounding on you for many years. It has taken its toll on you. It has taught you learned-helplessness and passivity. It has taught you that you have no control over yourself or your environment. It has left you sad, demoralized, and apathetic. It has robbed you of positive energy and momentum. These things you are going to have to rebuild. It will take some time, but you'll get there. You have survived this illness. You are already a winner.
- Scott
Posted by janejane on January 3, 2010, at 8:36:11
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed...., posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:00:45
> How was I different before PMeds?
>
> More filled with life and vigor.
> More motivated...better able to concentrate. I was able to feel the appropriate emotion at the appropriate time ( good and bad emotions)
> And while not always pleasant...at least I knew the feelings were genuine, and not being interfered with by the tranquilizing effects of Meds.
> Mostly what I miss though....is the thrill of life, a zest for living and accomplishing. My once fast paced, high energy personality has been replaced with a withdrawn, cautious "safe" styling of living that refusue to take normal risks...interact socially with others properly..and ..well ...get EXCITED about anything? Does that make sense?
>
> BF
>
>
>
>BF, this sounds a lot like SSRI-induced apathy. Laney recently started a thread about it here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091227/msgs/932193.html
Maybe some tweaking would work better than quitting. I quit last year and it's been it's been a struggle, though I'm still hoping to find a med-free answer to my depression. In hindsight, I think I should have tried just reducing my prozac dose while keeping my wellbutrin dose the same.
If you want to learn more, there should be additional threads about SSRI apathy if you search the archives.
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2010, at 9:10:21
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by janejane on January 3, 2010, at 8:36:11
It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between SSRI-induced apathy and the loss of interest and motivation that are part of the depressive disorder. It might help to assess the presence of other depressive symptoms to be able to make the distinction. Then you can better evaluate your need for continued antidepressant treatment.
It could be a combination of both.
- Scott
Posted by 49er on January 3, 2010, at 9:10:57
In reply to Re: BF + 49er: prozac taper, posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:13:10
<< Thanks 49er...and since we are on the subject, I have another question. I am already experiencing difficulty in tapering the Pristiq. The 50mg pill is obvioulsy not menat to be cut...even with a pill cutter. I know Effexor is basically the same Med, so what is the group's opinion on me doing on of two things:
>
> 1) Switching to Effexor and then tape.
>
> 2) Reinstating my Zoloft script that worked so well for so many years...and gradually taper it instead.
>
> BF
>
BF,Would your insurance cover compound pharmacies? If it did, you could get your physician to write a prescription for the dose you wanted to cut to which should be 45mg (10% cut) and take it there to be compounded.
I posted a link for finding a local compound pharmacy in a previous post. If you can't find it, I can post it again.
That would be my first choice since you wouldn't have to worry about switching meds. But if insurance doesn't cover it, then the option is worthless unless you can pay out of pocket.
If compounding isn't an option, I think I would switch to Effexor even though you said Zoloft worked well previously. But it may not and switching to Effexor is less of a risk since the chemical makeup is the same.
The only problem is that due to the short life of Effexor, it will be hard to taper. Do a google search for effexor withdrawal to find out how to do it. I have never taken the drug so I am no help.
But if you decide to switch to Zoloft and you don't encounter problems, tapering would be easier since you could get the liquid version.
I guess what I am saying is I don't think either one of your choices is an overwhelming favorite. Pick one and see what happens.
49er
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 3, 2010, at 9:15:17
In reply to Re: Lou's response- benzowithdrawal, posted by Buckeye Fan on January 3, 2010, at 8:08:52
> BF,
> You wrote,[...I may have used these meds too often and too long...].
> "If you have used a Benzodiazepine for 10 years or so, then you could use some special help to discontinue such. There is a group called benzo.org out of the U.K that is involved with Dr. Heather Ashton in helping people discontinue benzodiazepines.
> There was a person in Columbus that helps people with discontinuing benzodiazepines. Her name is Yvonne Day. I suggest that before you discontinue any benzodiazepine that you be aware of what is known concerning such and she could be a good person to contact if you like and I hope she still is active in helping people.
> Be advised that there is the potential of a horrific withdrawal syndrome that you could find yourself in if you discontinue a benzodiazepine. You might want to prepare for such by talking with Yvonne and maybe there is a support group in Col.This could be compounded in your case because of the other psychotropic drugs that you also take.Be advised that this could take many months to overcome, and that there could be life-threatening consequences from withdraw from benzodiazepines.
> Lou"
>
>
> Yes Lou..I have read many post from the UK Site you mentioned. Thank you for the tip on the Benzowise person in Columbus...do you happen to know her e-mail address or how to contact her? Is she a Doctor?
> Since anxiety was my primary diagnosis...the benzo's have been my main line of defense against panic and agoraphobia. And since I have not had these problems SINCE being on benzo's..I imagine it will be very tough for me to learn to live without them totally.
>
> BFBF,
Try,
www.benzo.org.uk
and see if you could contact Yvonne Day
Lou
Posted by Buckeye Fan on January 4, 2010, at 6:41:06
In reply to Re: New Year...New Plan, Advice needed.... » Buckeye Fan, posted by SLS on January 3, 2010, at 8:25:53
> > Mostly what I miss though....is the thrill of life, a zest for living and accomplishing. My once fast paced, high energy personality has been replaced with a withdrawn, cautious "safe" styling of living that refusue to take normal risks...interact socially with others properly..and ..well ...get EXCITED about anything? Does that make sense?
>
> Yes.
>
> I think you can recapture those things in time, once any residual anhedonia and amotivation dissipates. Remember, this illness has been pounding on you for many years. It has taken its toll on you. It has taught you learned-helplessness and passivity. It has taught you that you have no control over yourself or your environment. It has left you sad, demoralized, and apathetic. It has robbed you of positive energy and momentum. These things you are going to have to rebuild. It will take some time, but you'll get there. You have survived this illness. You are already a winner.
>
>
> - ScottBeen thinking about this...you give a great description of how I feel. THIS is the very reason I want to try and taper the Meds.
I may disagree on one point though...since the Med's have been in me for so long....it is no longer a natural depression or anxiety that has left me with these feelings...It is the Meds!
It stands to reason and makes good common sense that anything PMED designed to insulate us from anxiety and/or depression will have a dulling effect on our general personality.
At least in my case I mean...everyone is different.So I submit that it is the Meds that have .."been pounding on you for many years. It has taken its toll on you. It has taught you learned-helplessness and passivity. It has taught you that you have no control over yourself or your environment. It has left you sad, demoralized, and apathetic. It has robbed you of positive energy and momentum"
What do you think?
BF
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