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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by G-man885858 on February 14, 2009, at 20:07:01
In reply to Re: APOLOGY/ NO NEED!!!!, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 19:55:28
I LOVE ALL OF YOU!!!
Posted by Cseagraves on February 15, 2009, at 20:19:22
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
G-man,
Hi there!
Read all the post regarding your thread. I so understand everything you are going through. Same as you, I cannot take anything else. I have been through almost every ssri, tca's and then last week gave in to taking an maoi. They may work well for others, but as usual, my body had a severe reaction to the med (Marplan). Out of all the meds I have taken which, I have had awful reactions to, after my 4th day on Marplan I just wanted to die. I don't mean suicidal but I just felt that if I died, it would be better. Pdoc immediately took me off.
That's not the kind of person I am and that is not how I think. I have never felt that way before. Life to me has always been a gift and worth battling this condition.
I have hit my wall and decided that I am just done with most all of this. I have severe gad and agoraphobia, which most of the ppls here know because I have been seeking advice about meds and treatments for quite a while.
I understand that everyone's system is different and how our bodies respond to these meds is different. I am to the point that I don't believe I have a chemical imbalance and that is why my body responds the way it does to the meds. I believe that I have a thought processing problem.
All I know is that for me, I can't do this anymore. I am physically, mentally and emotionally worn out. I can't handle the ups and downs, the feeling nauseous, the insominia and worry.
I have not had this condition since I was young, nor have I been battling this most of my life. It only came on slowly over the last 5 years and I did not become agoraphobic up until this last year.
I have had several evaulations from therapists and to sum it all up my stress levels hit their peaks. Yes, I had an abusive childhood and as a teenager until I could get away from my father. I had an abusive first husband, but was always considered the strong one in the family and the one everyone could lean on.
Then from the ages of 35 to 40 I had some more extremely stressful situations hit and I guess my body just finally broke down. When I was tested, my cortisol levels were through the roof, my dhea was extremely high, my testosterone was high and I had literally no estrogen or progesterone. My adrenals were in total fatigue and over stressed. My body was also deficient in Vitamin D and calcium (which caused me to develop osteoporosis) although I have always been very athletic.
I guess you could say that my body was and is rejecting everything.
I am not recommending this to you because when it comes to how you feel and how you want to handle it, it is definately a personal choice that only you can make.
For me, I have decided to take a different path. Since I know that the only meds my body can handle at very low dosages are zanax and remeron, I am going to use them in combination with intensive CBT.
From what I have read, if successful, the remission rate is higher using CBT than using any type of med for my condition.
I used this week to speak with several psychologist who specialize with severe anxiety and agoraphobia. Many say they do, but I wanted to find someone who didn't use the old standard desensitation methods. I wanted someone who really knows what the hell they are doing.
I also had to come to the understanding myself that the harder I try to control this condition, the worse and harder it is going to be to get past it. I know that with alot of work and determination, this is curable. Going through this process can't be any worse than what I go through everytime I try a new med. So as of right now, what I am doing for me is:
CBT (finding a good therapist is the key)
I have always kept a healthy diet, but I am fine tuning it even more.
Drinking whey protein regularly
Taking my aminos regularly (I use Chlorella. Ingredients in this supplement also help with adrenal fatigue. You can find it at www.JadeChlorella.com.
Taking more Gaba (the brains natural calming agent), L-theanine (promotes relaxation and calmness), Phosphatidyl Serine (supports and repairs nervous system), L-taurine (metabolic transmitter - can help people who suffer from manic depression),Olive leaf extract (to many health benefits to list, so you may want to look that one up), Choline (stimulatory neurotransmitter). If you can, find someone around you that uses "Standard Process Supplements" try to get them. You can find them usually through a nutritionist or google them to find a distributor in your area. They are great because they are pure whole supplements. They also have other supplements that help with adrenal fatigue and I will swear by them.
Meditation at least twice a day. I'm sure there are several people here who have heard this one and probably some who have tried it, but the key is that you have to commit to it.I have been meditating at least twice a day for the last week and it has helped tremendously. I am also going to tomorrow to see someone who specializes in Reiki. Sounds wonderful, so its worth a shot.
I wish I had tried this approach years ago before getting caught up in this never ending cycle of meds. This last year has been awful and for me, I think it all started when a pdoc misdiagonosed me and put me on Seroquel. I haven't been the same since.
Please know to all who may read this post, that I am not trying to say that the methods and ways that you are trying to help yourselves is wrong. If it is working for you, then I am so happy that you have been able to find something that works and makes you feel better. For me, the meds just do not work.
And who knows, this may not work for me either, but as of right now, it's all I have left. Please be kind as I cannot deal with alot of negative feedback at this point. I just want to get better and I hope G-man that you find a way for yourself also.
Never give up. One way or another, you will find a way to fix this. Everyone here is very informative, helpful, supportive and most of all caring, which goes a long way.
Love and support to all of you!
Courtney :-)
Posted by Cseagraves on February 15, 2009, at 20:39:15
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 7, 2009, at 22:47:33
G-man,
Sorry, but there were some other things I forgot to mention. I think it was someone else who also mentioned diet and exercise. I used to exercise regularly and now I panic at the very thought. (have no idea why), but if you could just make yourself get out and walk a little, it will help you to relax and focus.
Also the therapist I talked to recommended two things for me to start trying before my appointment. I'm sure many of us here have read several books on anxiety disorders, but the one she recommended is called "Power Over Panic" by Bronwyn Fox. Out of all the books I've read, this one is really a good one and you can download it right to your computer for about $17.00. I also ordered a CD called "Think Right Now" for anxiety and panic. It's an accelerated conditioning program that you listen to at night while you sleep. It has helped alot also.
I wish you the best!
Courtney
Posted by G-man885858 on February 15, 2009, at 20:44:05
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! Hope this helps!, posted by Cseagraves on February 15, 2009, at 20:19:22
Dear Courtney,
Thank you so much for your input.
Do you use "Standard Process" supplements right now?
Posted by Garnet71 on February 16, 2009, at 1:48:14
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! Hope this helps!, posted by Cseagraves on February 15, 2009, at 20:19:22
Posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 9:09:06
In reply to Re: Hope this helps!, posted by G-man885858 on February 15, 2009, at 20:44:05
Hi G-man.
Hope you are doing well today.
Yes. Right now I am using two for adrenal fatique. They are called A-C Carbamide and Organically Bound Minerals. They also carry a product called Livaplex to help damage done by meds and stress.
If you can't find someone around you to give you more info on these products, let me know. I have a great friend in Ohio who is a chiropractor and nutritionist. She has her own healing center there and can give you all kinds of info on these products and if you can't find them there, she can get some products to you.
Remember mind, body and spirit, its all connected. Healing begins from within. :-)
Courtney
Posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 16:05:06
In reply to Re: Hope this helps!, posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 9:09:06
G-man,
Here's another site you might look at. I just ordered some of there products today.
www.adrenalfatigue.org
Courtney
Posted by G-man885858 on February 16, 2009, at 16:19:16
In reply to Re: Hope this helps!, posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 16:05:06
Dear Courtney,
Standard Process sounds like a great brand, but I don't want to self-medicate and buy a product that nobody prescribed to me. I've done that a lot in the past and I wasted a lot of money that way.
Right now, I only take supplements prescribed to me by my holistic doc only. I have to trust him and do what he says.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 16:22:53
In reply to Re: Hope this helps!, posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 16:05:06
Hi G-Mann!
You are never getting out of here. We will post and post and post. This is your new life. Get comfortable. JK But see the effect that had! haha Babble can be addicting!!! I didn't want to talk to anyone in my daily life, even family sometimes (although they are great) It just really helped me to talk openly about my "stuff" and not feel wierd about it. Make friends that don't judge me (right Courtney?, haha) You kinda feel your around people like you so you can see how others cope etc. I hope you'll stick around and get some ideas from people who have been where you are. Anyway, just wanted to say hey, hope to see ya around! If you get a bad vibe from anyone, or don't get a reply, it happens. Just stay away from that person, and know that wev'e ALL run threads or posts with zero response. Its not your post, people just didn't see it or whatever. Its not you!! Let us know how you are today. Any new plans?
Your friend,
Jade ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 16:24:11
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! » Cseagraves, posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 16:22:53
Posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 17:34:12
In reply to Re: Hope this helps!, posted by G-man885858 on February 16, 2009, at 16:19:16
G-man,
I understand. Your holistic doc should know of Standard Process.
Wanted to also let you know that I went to see a Reiki healer today. If you get a chance, look up her site and take a look at it. It's very informative. Try to read all the information to the left. She definately helped to reduce some anxiety. www.lighthealer.net.
Maybe you can find someone in your area. I would only recommend a Master Reiki Healer and it would probably work well in conjuction with your holistic healing. :-)
O.K., I'll quit bugging you now! Just don't want you to give up.
Courtney
Posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 17:35:12
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Courtney!!! (nm) » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 16:24:11
Been missin ya!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 19:17:58
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 17:35:12
> Been missin ya!
Hi Courtney, buzy, buzy, buzy! I think were missing each other!! Literally,lol. Crossing paths on the board. I'm just not here that much lately, so much to catch up on!!! I've been reading you posts. In fact I read all the above earlier, your posts are very heartfelt. Let me know how your doin' ;-)
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 17:33:05
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 19:17:58
Hey,
Do any of you guys drink a good herbal tea? Like a tea that actually gives you energy an raises your mood? A tea that really works?
Posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 17:33:05
Hi G-man!
Hope you are feeling better.
The only thing I drink besides water is a combination of decaf green tea and white tea. I brew the tea bags together and squeeze lemon juice into it. I drink about a gallon a week.
Courtney
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 18:33:25
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
Every day, between 4 pm - 11 pm I am SO TIRED that I cannot keep myself up, and I have to go to bed. This leaves me up most of the night after 11 pm which sucks. I hate staying up at night - it drives you mentally insane!
Coffee is too strong for me to use to keep myself up during the day, so I'm looking for some herb that may help keep me up during the day so I can sleep at night. There's gotta be something.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 19:04:41
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
Courtney,
What I'm also worried about is since my doc doesn't sell Standard Process supps in his office, then he won't be a fan of using them. You know how docs are, they only like to push the supplements that THEY sell. I guess all doctors are selfish like that.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 19:20:59
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 18:33:25
> Every day, between 4 pm - 11 pm I am SO TIRED that I cannot keep myself up, and I have to go to bed. This leaves me up most of the night after 11 pm which sucks. I hate staying up at night - it drives you mentally insane!
That it does!
>
> Coffee is too strong for me to use to keep myself up during the day, so I'm looking for some herb that may help keep me up during the day so I can sleep at night. There's gotta be something.I'm a coffee drinker, I don't really drink tea.
Do you have a health food store near you? Not just a Supp. store, but one that sells groceries too. Organic type, etc. Just ask one of the employees who knows the most about the teas.Good luck!
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 19:20:59
Hey,
I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
Please!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 19:42:16
In reply to An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
> Hey,
>
> I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
>
> Please!Hey G-Mann
First, don't panic. You'll get some ideas here and figure something out, okay?
Do you have enough to do a slow, slow taper? What kind of withdrawal symptoms are you having? How much have you been taking and i f you don't mind my asking, what other meds are you on at what dosages?
My nephew was taking Ambien and felt he was becoming dependent also. He'll be home soon hopefully and I can get some ideas from him. If not I'll try and reach him. In the mean time see if anyone else has experience with this.
My understanding is its not the innocent sleep med they make it out to be. My nephew and I told his GP he had a history with addiction (benzos) and couldn't be given anything like that. Luckily hes doing a program and wasn't about to ruin it over Ambien.
Sorry that happened to you. I'll talk with you a little later. Stay cool!
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 20:34:53
In reply to Re: An important Question » G-man885858, posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 19:42:16
Jade,
How slow of a taper do you mean? My psychiatrist says to take 1/2 a pill (5 mg) for a week, then 1/2 a pill EVERY OTHER DAY for the next week. I am currently on Seroquel 300 mg, Klonopin 1 mg, Lopressor 25 mg, and of course Ambien 10 mg.
The symptoms I'm having is extreme anger, depression, irritability, and a general sick feeling. I've had these symptoms before with Ambien withdrawal back in Summer of 2005. Back then I was able to simply cold-turkey off of it, but now It's a lot harder to stop this nasty drug. My doc says that Klonopin should help ease the withdrawal symptoms, but it's not helping.
I hate myself because I knew the hazards of taking Ambien for long periods of time. But out of sheer despair I took it. Now I'm stuck with this nasty drug.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 22:36:47
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 20:34:53
> Jade,
>
> How slow of a taper do you mean? My psychiatrist says to take 1/2 a pill (5 mg) for a week, then 1/2 a pill EVERY OTHER DAY for the next week. I am currently on Seroquel 300 mg, Klonopin 1 mg, Lopressor 25 mg, and of course Ambien 10 mg.
>
> The symptoms I'm having is extreme anger, depression, irritability, and a general sick feeling. I've had these symptoms before with Ambien withdrawal back in Summer of 2005. Back then I was able to simply cold-turkey off of it, but now It's a lot harder to stop this nasty drug. My doc says that Klonopin should help ease the withdrawal symptoms, but it's not helping.
>
> I hate myself because I knew the hazards of taking Ambien for long periods of time. But out of sheer despair I took it. Now I'm stuck with this nasty drug.Hi G-Mann,
I talked to my nephew, and I am currently tapering off Klonopin. IMHO you are tapering off way too fast. My nephew agrees, its a nasty drug to get off of. I agree with you. Maybe Klonopin should be helping but the fact is, it isn't. So I would stop that rapid taper and go to a slow taper. You shouldn't be feeling that way.
You know how hard it is to w/d from Klonopin, I've been taking 3mg for years. I don't even notice. In addition, if you have tolerance to the klon its not gonna help as much.
If you are sure its the Ambien that is causing you to feel this way, then you need to slow it way down, and if it was me I'd want it slow enough that I hardly notice. Why torture yourself? Does your Doc have a reason for wanting you off it so fast?
Klon I am tapering by 1/2mg per week, I was taking 3mg per day. I'm down to 2mg a day. Like I said, I don't notice a thing. So if my math is right I started at 15% taper the first week.
You are tapering by 50% the first week. This might not mean much, I'm not sure. Bottom line, no reason for you to be suffering like that. It's too FAST! Did you take too much now your out, or is he limiting you to that taper? Or will he do what you ask?
Tell him its too fast and you want to taper at what ever rate doesn't cause those awful symptoms. If he won't do it, I think you'll have to see another Doc to handle it. I see no reason for you to suffer.
And one more thing, you need to give yourself a break! We've all made dumb mistakes when were tired or depressed or whatever. People who aren't in treatment do it all the time. Cut yourself some slack....thats an order. I am in remission because I sensed my PDoc was wrong about something. If you made a mistake and took it all thinking you could cold turkey, go see your GP.
Thats all I can think of tonight. If you are out or close to being out and PDoc wont give you any more make an emergency appt with GP.
Good Luck, weve all been there believe me.
~Jade
Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 13:49:26
In reply to An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
Since ambien is a z-drug or "pseudo-benzo", it needs to be treated as a benzo and an appropriate withdrawl schedule may be needed, including substition with a slower acting benzo like valium...see Ashton's Manual for benziodiazepine withdrawal (it has slow withdrawal schedules to the day and mg you could follow). Just an idea...i'm sure your doc would be familiar with it. Heres the link (chapter II covers slow withdrawal after prolonged use):
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/
> Hey,
>
> I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
>
> Please!
Posted by G-man885858 on February 25, 2009, at 22:44:49
In reply to Re: An important Question » G-man885858, posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 13:49:26
I told my psychiatrist that Klonopin was not helping at all, so he replaced it with Valium. I hope you're right that Valium is the longest acting - hence the safest of all benzos. Obviously Klonopin was useless to me.
I hope that Valium helps the ambien withdrawal. I really see no other alternatives.
Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 23:37:34
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 25, 2009, at 22:44:49
Be careful when you say safest. Perhaps has less potential to be "abused". It's not the "longest" acting...there are others, although i've never seen them used (seem to be pretty rare - some last many days). It lasts long enough. It's long acting characteristic is useful for that slow withdrawal, Ashton describes, from faster acting benzos. As you come down in dose on ambien you add a little bit of valium which carries for you a long way and reduces the withdrawal sides of the ambien...then at one point ambien is gone and you remain with valium which is easier to come off of on this short run with it. Valium and temazepam also seem to have very little risk of tolerance...ive read studies on this and the dr who gave me temazepam was totally aware of this and ok'd that particular benzo while xanax or klon he said no to.
> I told my psychiatrist that Klonopin was not helping at all, so he replaced it with Valium. I hope you're right that Valium is the longest acting - hence the safest of all benzos. Obviously Klonopin was useless to me.
>
> I hope that Valium helps the ambien withdrawal. I really see no other alternatives.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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