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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Quintal on January 2, 2007, at 11:42:22
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by Declan on January 1, 2007, at 14:51:07
Declan, what's wrong with your email? I've tried to babblemail you and it keeps saying you have an email problem?
Q
Posted by ramsea on January 3, 2007, at 8:49:36
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 1, 2007, at 15:38:13
autistic people are usually renowned for being very visual. but perhaps not in easily categorized ways. we have great gaps between abilities at times. there are many different types of learning ability and disability--the general public just sees it in a very black and white way, when the mind is far more complicated. many people have some degree of learning disability but just don't see it that way--it doesn't seem to matter. autistic people/people with asperger's vary greatly in their abilities and often learning difficuties. it comes out as glaring because of the extremes--so high in one area, low in another--high can be anything from engineering to poetry, often low in social learning and some other aspect of knowledge that others take for granted, like housework organization. but some of us adapt amazingly well, and learn how to act social so well, our act is better than a normal person's behavior. but that can be very tiring.
Posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 11:46:26
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by ramsea on January 3, 2007, at 8:49:36
Thanks for the input ramsea. Here's an amateur video by Aut TV on the different types of Asperger's syndrome that seems to outline many of the things you have said yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Yd8E-IlVw
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Love-Friendship-%20Work.asp?name=Jeanette%20McAfee,%20M.D.
http://daycaredaze.blogspot.com/2006/06/f*rt-boy.html
>are many different types of learning ability and disability--the general public just sees it in a very black and white way, when the mind is far more complicated. many people have some degree of learning disability but just don't see it that way--it doesn't seem to matter. autistic people/people with asperger's vary greatly in their abilities and often learning difficuties.
I agree. Is it possible for someone on the autistic spectrum to be good at recognising facial expression if they have studied it closely? I remember doing tests like that before at school. We had a special teacher who came into school and took a few of us to do tests and strange games. Naming faces and sorting shapes were part of the games we played. Now I'm wondering if I had been diagnosed or suspected of having some deficit afterall? Why else would they be putting me through those classes?
>but some of us adapt amazingly well, and learn how to act social so well, our act is better than a normal person's behaviour. but that can be very tiring.
It is tiring up keep up the act when we are relying mostly on logic - intuition takes less effort. Are you diagnosed with Asperger's yourself ramsea?
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 13:10:35
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by ramsea on January 3, 2007, at 8:49:36
Some more links to videos on Asperger's Syndrome medications and supplememts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIbrH1nRYvw&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Mwxbq2FYg&mode=related&search=
Q
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 18:32:12
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 13:10:35
Quintal why all the pain meds? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 21:05:56
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 18:32:12
I don't know. Maybe he has some painful condition that he didn't mention? I could email him and find out.
That looks a lot like me though with rolling eyes, sweating and stammering.
Q
Posted by tessellated on January 3, 2007, at 23:04:29
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by ed_uk on January 1, 2007, at 16:04:21
ok sorta late on this, but with the good ole psyche BA in me back pocket, i was engaged.
systematising 54 (very high)
empathy 53 (above average)
autistic spect 15 (just below male average)
mind in eye 34 (highly accurate).hmmm. i'm an artist w/years of figure drawing, photo, graphics, etc... so i only got a couple of the minds eye wrong. it's not hard, cartoonists and animators are remarkable at breaking down human expression to their basic graphical representations. it is an entirely trainable skill...
however....i think there are problems because there is one or two models acting the part, not being it... and most answers are a simple process of elimination based on direct eye contact.
darn, i did better on this than my drivers test.
and i love pattern, machines, extropy, complexity, and loose myself in empathy. but i'm a dude.
i think our notions of autism etc are changing. i believe its only recently that there may be an agreed upon etiology underlying these similar syptoms due to neuroimaging techniques. and so i believe these form of tests are a bit dated and reductive. fun maybe... like which dog would you be?
but i'm also beginning to really think much of my depression etc is contextual. sitting alone in a studio pondering philosophy is not typically the most catecholamine inducing state. ahhh... the cold world of los angeles...
cheers,
l8
Posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 3:59:17
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by tessellated on January 3, 2007, at 23:04:29
Here is a videos by the same guy on selective mutism. I was selectively mute at school since around the age of 13. The part on delayed sleep phase syndrome also has resonance. I can't sleep until early morning. I'm notorious for being a 'night owl'. There's far too much associated with Asperger's Syndrome and its attendant problems that describe me so well for this to simply be a naturalistic fallacy.
Do other people on the autism spectrum here have these problems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBvSsaP2CEU
Q
Posted by Poet on January 4, 2007, at 10:35:20
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 18:32:12
For awhile Dr. Clueless was convinced I had many traits of someone with Asperger's. My therapist thinks I can't interpret facial expressions.
Systemizing Quotient 13 (low)
Empathy 20 (low) *Most people with Asperger's or high function autism score about 20
Autism Spectrum Quotient 28 above average (Asperger average 35)
Mind in the Eyes 23 (under 22 find this difficult)Damn they may be right, but not completely.
Poet
Posted by ramsea on January 5, 2007, at 7:36:11
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ramsea, posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 11:46:26
Interesting links, Quintal.
About the facial expressions, yes. It is entirely possible for someone with AS and a normal to gifted intelligence to become adept at the meaning of facial expressions.
Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
Some might say we gesticulate and express a little too much--perhaps since we have gone out of our way to learn the art of expression rather than getting it naturally we miss some aspects of the game. We doth protest too much (or too little as the case may be). But we pass for normal.
Several members of my family have AS, so in my case it seems to be a genetic thing. We don't express our AS identically though at all. For example, my son and father are "classic" AS "types", being engineers and computer techies, while I--an unusual female AS---am obsessed with health, poetry and art.
My father is quite flat in expression and doesn't maintain good eye contact--but I am the opposite. At an early age I took up the study of how to fit in and make a good impression. I was always different and the odd one out. Childhood was a difficult time for me. I was also very clumsy to the point of being made fun of a lot. I read countless books (as a child I spent most of my free time in the library) on how to be a popular girl, how to make friends, look good, and get people to like you. It was one of my obsessions. Still is, really. I am a self-help addict.
One thing that is very difficult is to get diagnosed with AS as an adult. It is possible for a person to have many of the traits, and even to have "qualified" for the diagnosis at some point earlier in life, but to adapt in sufficient ways as to make diagnosis no longer possible.
Even if an adult is suffering from the negative aspects of AS it is still difficult to get diagnosed as an adult. Many of us are diagnosed with other disorders, everything from Major Depression to borderline personality to alcoholism to ADD to schizophrenia, and so on.
A person with AS is just as likely as the rest of the population to have any of the other disoders, of course. In my case, I am "co-morbid" with both AS and bipolar, and I guess also alcoholism and PTSD. I have always had a lot of depression and anxiety, which is common in aspies. But I'm sure you know that AS isn't a mental illness, it is a neurological condition. There is no medicine as such for dealing with it, though individual symptoms may be dealt with using meds.
There are wasy to learn to cope with the differences we have from neuro-typicals and even to turn some aspects of it into advantages.
Tony Atwood and Lorna Wing Publishers have a lot of good books on AS--it's a good starting place for reading. It's harder to be diagnosed as an adult with AS in the UK than it is in the US--where it is also hard. So if you self-diagnose, you can benefit from all the research and knowledge, but not receive NHS help or benefits from the State.Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer. ramsea
Posted by zenhussy on January 5, 2007, at 12:27:49
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome?, posted by Quintal on December 31, 2006, at 16:10:50
Systemizing----51..........51 - 80 is very high (three times as many people with Asperger Syndrome score in this range, compared to typical men, and *almost no women score in this range*)
Empathy----52..........average/high
Autism----17..........average
Mind in the Eyes----24..........A typical score is in the range 22-30.hmmmm....
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:00:31
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 1, 2007, at 18:08:11
Hi Q
>I'm curious as to what *is* actually 'wrong' with me though and I'm exploring possibilities.
Well......I think you're extremely intelligent, although that's not a disorder :) What are the symptoms which cause you the most problems?
>How to explain high scores on the 'Mind in the eyes' test then? I'm guessing it has something to do with having a good visual memory? Even so, why is it that I don't always get obvious social cues until long after the event if don't have ADHD? Confusing.
I suppose you were able to analyse the photographs intelectually. Perhaps the problem is that you don't repond to other people's facial expressions emotionally?
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:01:50
In reply to Types of Memory » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 1, 2007, at 18:21:09
Hi Q
I can't really visualise anything. I suppose I remember words rather than pictures.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:02:39
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Declan, posted by Quintal on January 2, 2007, at 11:42:22
Hi Q
I think Declan was blocked for making a political comment! I don't think there is anything wrong with his email :)
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:21:33
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:00:31
>What are the symptoms which cause you the most problems?
Hard to specify. My problems seem to stem from being vaguely disconnected from the rest of the human race in some way ;-)
I can perform well in debates and arguments but when it comes to ordinary conversation I'm totally lost. I just don't 'get' what's going on or what's expected of me. I reckon that's why the last pdoc thinks there's nothing wrong with me - since I can stand my ground very well in a clinical setting which is the only place he sees me. The psychiatric nurses that have visited me at home over the years had a different opinion though.
>I suppose you were able to analyse the photographs intellectually. Perhaps the problem is that you don't repond to other people's facial expressions emotionally?
You're probably right there. I wonder why? Do facial expressional alter the feelings of 'normal' people? It's not that I don't care about other people but, as you suggest, I just don't seem to respond properly at the time.
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:02:39
>I think Declan was blocked for making a political comment! I don't think there is anything wrong with his email :)
I thought he might have been. I saw in admin that people get the email error message when trying to babble someone that has been blocked. How long has he been blocked for? Did he say something obscene? That doesn't sound like Declan. I'll check the archives.
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:31:41
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:24:19
Yes, I see Declan was blocked because Dr.Bob felt he had made an uncivil comment about arabs in Iraq. Should be back any day now.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20061123/msgs/718271.html
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 17:00:05
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:21:33
Hi Q
>My problems seem to stem from being vaguely disconnected from the rest of the human race in some way ;-)
Have you been able to make friends? Or do you prefer to be alone? I assume you're not a fan of 'small talk' :)
>You're probably right there. I wonder why? Do facial expressional alter the feelings of 'normal' people?
Yes, I think people do react emotionally to other people's expressions eg. if they detected in someone's expression that they were uncomfortable it might make them uncomfortable too.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 17:27:02
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 17:00:05
>Have you been able to make friends?
I have tried to make friends and others have tried to make friends with me but it never works out.
>Or do you prefer to be alone?
Yes, I like being alone. People tend to irritate me.
>I assume you're not a fan of 'small talk' :)
No! It's my worst nightmare. It's as though conversation is a dance - there's a rhythm to it and I have no sense of rhythm. Conversation is clumsy at best and often just falls apart despite my best attempts.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 19:21:13
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 17:27:02
Hi Q
>I have tried to make friends and others have tried to make friends with me but it never works out.
Never? What about a girlfriend?
>People tend to irritate me.
Oh dear!
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 22:23:23
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 19:21:13
>Never?
No, I don't keep acquaintances for long.
>What about a girlfriend?
I had a boyfriend for about a month, that's all!
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:44:01
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 22:23:23
Hi Q
>I had a boyfriend for about a month, that's all!
I'm sorry that it didn't work out. Do you think you will meet someone else?
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 12:56:51
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:44:01
>I'm sorry that it didn't work out. Do you think you will meet someone else?
Unlikely in the near future given my social anxiety and agoraphobia. I don't think I would make a very good partner in any case being on the autistic spectrum and all.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 9, 2007, at 13:35:58
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 12:56:51
Oh well, who knows what the future holds?
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 13:41:54
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by ramsea on January 5, 2007, at 7:36:11
Sorry for ignoring your post ramsea, it was very insightful.
>Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
I tend to talk with my hands and hold eye contact far too long - sometimes I think people feel intimidated but I started doing that after reading about body language and eye contact and also after being criticised for looking at the floor or turning away while talking to people. I don't really use it properly to regulate converastion etc.
>Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
Me too, except I'm more interested in literature at the moment. There was a time a few years ago when all I read were science and medical textbooks. How old were you all when you were diagnosed if you don't mind me asking?
>At an early age I took up the study of how to fit in and make a good impression. I was always different and the odd one out. Childhood was a difficult time for me. I was also very clumsy to the point of being made fun of a lot. I read countless books (as a child I spent most of my free time in the library) on how to be a popular girl, how to make friends, look good, and get people to like you. It was one of my obsessions. Still is, really. I am a self-help addict.
That sounds familiar. I spent all my time in the school library too. My book shelves are filled with titles such as "How to make friends and influence people", "How to make people like you", "How to talk to anyone", "Neuro-linguistic programming for dummies".
>One thing that is very difficult is to get diagnosed with AS as an adult. It is possible for a person to have many of the traits, and even to have "qualified" for the diagnosis at some point earlier in life, but to adapt in sufficient ways as to make diagnosis no longer possible.
That was exactly the question I was going to ask. I worry that I've learned so much over the last five years that I would have to regress slightly to give the impression that I was on the autistic spectrum. I would hope that experts used to dealing with autistic spectrum people would be able to spot subtle signs though. My old psychiatric nurses all said there was something odd about the way I interacted with them, but at the time I just put it down to depression. Something must be showing through to the people who have spent some time with me.
>There are wasy to learn to cope with the differences we have from neuro-typicals and even to turn some aspects of it into advantages.
Yes, like Temple Grandin's obsession with agricultural equipment leading to her career at Colorado University. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
>Tony Atwood and Lorna Wing Publishers have a lot of good books on AS--it's a good starting place for reading.
I read Tony Atwood's website a while ago and I noticed he had some good books on CBT methods on dealing with problems arising with AS. I think that would be a better approach than standard CBT for me. Have you had anything like that yourself?
>Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer. ramsea
Thank you for your help - it's good to be able to talk to someone who actually has the disorder.
Q
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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