![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 45 to 69 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 19:01:11
In reply to Re: Lithium: How many times do you dose per day?, posted by yesac on June 22, 2005, at 13:13:48
Well, today I'm totally sick of meds. I took a small amount of Seroquel last night. I should've known better from my previous Seroquel attempts. Woke up but barely and the whole day is now shot. I can't do a thing and have been trying to numb myself with various benzos just to sleep, but it's like my GABA receptors are fried.
As for the Ritalin, I'll probably just stick with it as needed, when I want to get extra work done. No way do I want to add another chemical on an ongoing basis. I think I'm doing damage to my poor liver trying to handle all these foreign substances.
Cymbalta at 30mg sent me into such a tailspin that it brought back vivid memories of acid trips, and not good ones. I know some people can start at 60mg and barely feel it, but I'm only at 8mg after 5 months of slowly titrating and if I take even 5 pellets more I feel it. So it's a dance. It seems to be helping me considering the bleak place I was in last February.
One more interesting note I don't have the energy to get into right now is I've decided to try to stop lithium for a while. My prescription ran out, my pdoc has been taking her sweet time to authorize the refill and I've been without for over a week. I'm starting to feel that old feeling, but this time by God, I'm determined to observe the course of this and ride it. I don't need to brand it sickness but I do need to look straight into the face of this entity now, while I have strength and support nearby. There's some puzzling need in me to throw down the gauntlet - that it's time to prove to IT that something, some light within me can contain and use that high energy state without getting burned. I've got plenty of books on the subject and lot's of good philosophy and spiritual practice, and as long as my mind can hold together to remember, I'll fight the good fight.
I'm no fool, I'll wean off slowly, but I'm needing to do this for as long as I'm able. Right now I don't even have a choice because she hasn't gotten back to the pharmacy and here I am trying to make the best of it. Hence the Seroquel last night - but never again. Never did like that stuff. Will keep you posted. - Barbara
Posted by Sabino on June 23, 2005, at 15:59:30
In reply to Re: Lithium: How many times do you dose per day? » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 19:01:11
Interesting, you guys talking about the overlap of ADD like symptoms in BP.
I didn't like the pstims either. I'm only 1 weeks into my Li experiment. I still think it's a keeper, though I did feel a little mushy headed when I tried to kick it up from 300 to 600.
I don't know if I'm BP or not, but the symptoms for me are that I feel frazzled, like I can't gather in and harness my thoughts, and I feel damn near like a moron when that happens. Now, I can take Li and it fixes that in less than an hour, better than the stims or benzos ever did.
Barb, good luck with the no meds. Yesac, sometimes your symptoms seems really similar to mine. I'm sort of hopeful at the particular moment.
Best...
Posted by yesac on June 23, 2005, at 16:00:50
In reply to Re: Lithium: How many times do you dose per day? » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 19:01:11
Why do you want to stop lithium? I thought that it was the best thing that ever happened to you? I realize that you don't have a choice right now because of your doctor not calling in the refill.... but other than that? Do you think you'll be better off without it?
I'm not trying to be patronizing, I just don't quite understand why you want to stop.
Posted by Sabino on June 23, 2005, at 19:31:01
In reply to stopping lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 23, 2005, at 16:00:50
Yesac,
Are you still taking Li? If so, how much do you take? Just curious.
Thanks
Posted by ravenstorm on June 23, 2005, at 21:42:15
In reply to Re: Lithium: How many times do you dose per day? » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 19:01:11
Barbcat--
Noone but you can decide if you are going to continue to take a med that, according to past posts by you, is a god send.
As an impartial observer, and someone who used to visit this site more often, I have to say that I have read of at least two other occassions where you decided to discontinue your lithium with disasterous results. I particularly remember you describing a nasty mixed state you descended into for quite a while upon stopping the drug. You were so grateful for it once you finally went back on. Why do you want to put yourself through that again.
Hope you don't find this intrusive. I am going solely on what you have previously posted about your experiences off lithium and how horrible they have been. Hang in there and love to you no matter what you decide to do.
Posted by barbaracat on June 23, 2005, at 21:54:51
In reply to stopping lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 23, 2005, at 16:00:50
I ask myself the same question. When I first started lithium and everytime I started up again, I was in a very bad place physically and emotionally, had to stop work, bad fibromyalgia depression, bipolar mixed states depression. Pretty awful.
Since then, in the last few years, I've been on a quest to figure out my fibromyalgia and the thing that kept coming up was hormones way out of balance - every one of them, including human growth hormone. I take thyroid hormone, bioidentical sex hormones, I inject myself with human growth hormone. I've finally gotten all of them in balance and am feeling physically and emotional better than in the last 10 years.
When this screw up with my refill happened, a little voice (hmmm, hearing voices are we?) spoke up and wondered how much all that hormonal imbalance had to do with my symptoms. So, I'm curious is mainly the reason. If I am bipolar but if I can manage my symptoms as others have learned to do, I'd rather do it that way. I think physical health and balance has so much to do with it and I didn't have that before, whereas I do now.
The only major side effect I've had with Li has been the rollercoaster thyroid ride but it's been enough. I'm already hypothyroid and I'd like to prevent more damage.
I got my prescription refilled and I'll be titrating off very slowly. I'm no fool - I've quit cold turkey before and that's a recipe for disaster. If I start obviously skidding I've got an attentive husband and friends who won't hesitate to force feed me the stuff. I've also got the time and support structure right now. Not working, summmer time, lots to keep me busy. It will be interesting. I still feel Lithium is the best thing that happened to me - but that was then and I'm interested in how it will go now. I'll keep you posted. - Barbara
> Why do you want to stop lithium? I thought that it was the best thing that ever happened to you? I realize that you don't have a choice right now because of your doctor not calling in the refill.... but other than that? Do you think you'll be better off without it?
>
> I'm not trying to be patronizing, I just don't quite understand why you want to stop.
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on June 23, 2005, at 22:04:11
In reply to Re: Barbcat, I've read past posts when you've drop, posted by ravenstorm on June 23, 2005, at 21:42:15
Thanks, Ravenstorm. I appreciate your concern and alarm. Yes, I know what you mean entirely, I gladly crawled back in the past. This is just going to be a time limited test that will stop immediately if I start getting weird. Please see my post to Yesac for the reasons I'm trying this.
One thing that will be different this time is that I won't be going off all at once like I did every time before. It's going to go very slowly and with as much common sense as I can keep together. My husband, bless his heart, won't let me get too far out.
But in a nutshell, I need to know how bipolar I really am, or how much of it was my severe hormonal imbalance that's been corrected. Maybe I need less lithium now that my hormones are normalized. We'll see. Don't worry, I'm not into needless suffering, more like mad chemistry. - Barbara
> Barbcat--
>
> Noone but you can decide if you are going to continue to take a med that, according to past posts by you, is a god send.
>
> As an impartial observer, and someone who used to visit this site more often, I have to say that I have read of at least two other occassions where you decided to discontinue your lithium with disasterous results. I particularly remember you describing a nasty mixed state you descended into for quite a while upon stopping the drug. You were so grateful for it once you finally went back on. Why do you want to put yourself through that again.
>
> Hope you don't find this intrusive. I am going solely on what you have previously posted about your experiences off lithium and how horrible they have been. Hang in there and love to you no matter what you decide to do.
Posted by yesac on June 24, 2005, at 10:46:38
In reply to Re: stopping lithium » yesac, posted by Sabino on June 23, 2005, at 19:31:01
> Are you still taking Li? If so, how much do you take? Just curious.
Yes, I'm still taking it. I take 600 mgs/day. Considering trying to go down to 450 just to see if it still works okay, because why be on a higher dose than you need, right? Plus, I think that it might be making my attention problems worse. I've been on it for about 2 months, and it seemed like it started to work after about 5 weeks.
Posted by yesac on June 24, 2005, at 13:34:25
In reply to Re: stopping lithium » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 23, 2005, at 21:54:51
Good luck. It sounds like you've got it pretty well planned out, so maybe it will work out okay. I hope it does. Let us know how things go.
Posted by barbaracat on June 24, 2005, at 15:17:47
In reply to Re: stopping lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 24, 2005, at 13:34:25
> Good luck. It sounds like you've got it pretty well planned out, so maybe it will work out okay. I hope it does. Let us know how things go.
**Thanks. I definitely will let you all know, as I suspect there are alot of us who will be interested in this trial. At the merest whiff of unpleasantness I will go back on my usual 600mg. But if all goes smoothly I'll be reducing by 25mg a week, or as long as it takes.
Posted by Sabino on June 24, 2005, at 17:16:28
In reply to Re: stopping lithium » Sabino, posted by yesac on June 24, 2005, at 10:46:38
Hi. One more. When you say it started to work after 5 weeks, how did it start to work? How did it make you feel versus the way you felt before it worked?
I was wondering if you experienced any startup SFX, and how long they took to resolve (if they did).
Have you tried the pstims for help with the attention issues yet? Hope you find some help for that. There're lots of things to try, as you know. The pstims, Parnate is said to be good for ADD too, if you want to hassle with the diet. There's Strattera, which I personally hated. Now that I have Lithium on board, I'd maybe go back and revisit a couple of the more activating ADs, like Prozac, which gave me an anxiety attack the first day I took it, at least that's the way I characterized it. The symptoms of what I call an anxiety attack, I think, are the same as what I've seen referred to as mixed states. Awful. But, maybe with Li I could possibly try that again. Parnate caused me a good deal of anxiety too, as did Wellbutrin.
The only ADs I had any sort of success with have been Zoloft (the first one I ever tried). For around 3 or so hours a day, my thoughts were razor sharp on that, followed by a crash for the rest of the day. Serzone, when taken really infrequently, caused euphoria for 3 or so hours, but it only worked like that if I hadn't taken it in a couple of weeks. When I tried to take it as prescribed, it caused a lot of mood lability. Remeron provided some much needed sleep, but did little in the way of mood improvement. And finally to Effexor, which I'm trying now at 150 a day, along with 15 Remeron for sleep. I really have to conclude that this has not really done the trick yet, although things seem to have improved since I started Li. I'm probably only doing around 400 or so a day of Li. I pushed it to 600 my third day, and I felt pretty mush-headed (that is to say, mush for brains).
All of which brings me back to asking how you felt when you say Li kicked in?
Good luck, whatever you decide to try. Let us know how it goes. It's always heartening to see someone that at long last finds some peace of mind.
Posted by ravenstorm on June 24, 2005, at 18:58:44
In reply to More newbie Lithium questions » yesac, posted by Sabino on June 24, 2005, at 17:16:28
Just wondering if you'll have to stop the cymbalta to have a better chance at making it without a mood stabilizer. I would think taking an SNRI without the Lithium might really be problematic for you.
Posted by crazyteresa on June 24, 2005, at 22:37:55
In reply to Does anyone like lithium?, posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 14:02:37
I've only been taking Lithium about 2 wks and I am so sick! I don't think I can continue to take it. If I continue will this get better?
crazy t
Posted by barbaracat on June 25, 2005, at 1:11:52
In reply to Re: barbcat, won't you have to stop the cymbalta?, posted by ravenstorm on June 24, 2005, at 18:58:44
We'll see and I wonder about ADs minus a decreased MS (decided I won't quit it completely, just try for the bare minimum). So far I'm doing fine at 8mg Cym and 400 lithium. It's only been a little over a week. Looking back, every time I stopped in the past was because I had run out and decided to see how it went, just like this time. The difference was that I wasn't on an AD and I was either very depressed or manic - not a good time to stop. The other thing was I was very physically ill with fibro and couldn't distract or work the stress off. I'm feeling healthy now and working like a dray horse outside and clearing up years worth of clutter. Being able to be busy is the best therapy.
To hedge my bets though, I'm going to take L-
Taurine 1000mg twice a day. Hey, if it works for Margot Kidder it's worth a try.> Just wondering if you'll have to stop the cymbalta to have a better chance at making it without a mood stabilizer. I would think taking an SNRI without the Lithium might really be problematic for you.
Posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 16:02:13
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium?, posted by crazyteresa on June 24, 2005, at 22:37:55
Hi,
>I've only been taking Lithium about 2 wks and I am so sick!
What brand are you taking and what dose? What side effects have you had so far?
~Ed
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 18:18:31
In reply to Re: barbcat, won't you have to stop the cymbalta? » ravenstorm, posted by barbaracat on June 25, 2005, at 1:11:52
Babaracat, You say you have fibromyalgia. And now you feel good and do a lot. What helped the fibro? I know someone who has it. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by barbaracat on June 25, 2005, at 23:45:44
In reply to Not to Change The Topic, posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 18:18:31
Sure, be glad to help if I can with the fibro info. There doesn't seem to be any consensus as to what 'causes' fibro, as it's a collection of symptoms that can be triggered by many causes. Some say it's an overall inflammatory condition, others say pathogens, but one thing most seem to agree upon is that it's not a condition that's located in the body, but the brain. That is, although the pain and symptoms are felt in the muscles and organs, the origin of the symptoms occurs neurologically.
For me, I'd have to say that it was inherent genetic tendencies that were exacerbated by the extreme stress I subjected myself to for so long, and eventually something had to give. I'd say some of it is the healing power of time, but mainly it has to do with how my brain was misdirecting my system to assimilate hormones. I'd been building up to fibro for years because a long-standing mood disorder made coping with a high-stress job and lifestyle very difficult. I was able to limp by until I hit menopause.
First of all, conventional medicine was able to do nothing, diddly-squat, nada for me except prescribe pain medications. I went to many doctors and eventually many naturopaths, some better than others, but ultimately it was working with the naturopaths that uncovered the root dysfunctions instead of just handling symptoms.
My first step was to have a hormone panel done and everything was very low. Not surprising since I was going through menopause (interesting the majority of fibro folks are women). I was taking the usual sex hormones but the levels weren't holding. Finally, I had an IGF-1 test which measures pituitary growth hormone and it was very low. Low growth hormone has been implicated in fibro because, among its many important functions, it affects the signalling and feedback loop between the hypothalamus, pituitary and the adrenals - the HPA. These regulate hormonal processes which signal how much of what hormone to produce and how much of it gets into the cells. Childhood stress can impact the HPA as well, and it's also not surprising that an estimated 90% fibro sufferers are women who have had abusive childhoods.
I still have to take supplemental hormones (bioidentical sex hormones and thyroid) but I think the HGH allows my body to use them better. I began to notice real improvement after about 4 months of daily injections (it's no big deal to inject them at all).
Although all hormones are equally important, getting my thyroid levels to a good level was probably the most significant as far as pure fibro symptoms are concerned. Low thyroid symtpoms are almost identical to fibro and there are schools of thought that the inability to adequately uptake thryoid at the cellular level is a key player in fibro. Thyroid test levels are misleading because they don't accurately reflect what's going on cellularly and shouldn't be taken as Gospel. If I were going solely by test results, I'm taking too much thyroid and I'm hyperthyroid, but I show no signs of hyperthryroid at all and feel much better at a higher dose. Apparently, I need more and luckily I have a mainstream doctor who agrees. Realizing how crucial my thryoid health is to all of this is one of the main reasons I'm trying to stop lithium.
Injecting myself with human growth hormone was the turnaround for me but I still have to watch my health habits and stress levels - can't get away with much anymore. I really, really, really have to watch the stress because that will bring me down. I manage it however I can, with lifestyle and with meds. When I'm tired, by God, I now make myself rest.
I still have flares especially with stress or overexertion, but considering that for over 3 years I spent half my life in bed in utter misery, a week every few months is a big improvement.
I also try to do the usual good dietary things, drink alot of water and get as much exercise as I can - sometimes it takes a cattle prod, alas.
Another big step came with getting some intestinal stuff cleared up. Part of fibro is irritable bowel syndrome and the bouts of one way or the other messed up the good bacteria and let in some bad ones. A stool sample confirmed intestinal dysbiosis and when you think about, that in itself can get you feeling pretty, uh, crappy. I took a course of antibiotics to get at the bad guys and then some potent probiotics to replenish the good ones. Staying regular has become a religion for me, it's so important. So, lots of water and psyllium and flax.
Getting out of my high stress job was mixed because of the extreme financial stress it caused, and my husband after 4 years is STILL out of work. But having the time to rest as much as I could has been important in reevaluating my life, as has learning to trust that my needs are being met by God, the Universe, or whatever. Trust is a life lesson I'm constantly working on, but it's getting easier. Baby steps.
I'd say finding a way to manage and relieve stress and trust that I was safe no matter what was the most important, but it wasn't possible with all the physical malfunctions I had going on.
If your friend comes to a point of wanting to try human growth hormone, it can be extremely expensive if ordered through the regular pharmacy route. However, I found the least expensive source online at www.clubhgh.com, a reputable Canadian company with high quality HGH. Once the levels and dosage is determined by a medical exam I highly recommend ordering it through them.
Hope this helps and I wish your friend the best. Fibro has been a blessing in disguise. It made me stop and slow down when nothing else could and, you know, whatever it takes to get our attentions. - Barbara
You say you have fibromyalgia. And now you feel good and do a lot. What helped the fibro? I know someone who has it. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by crazyteresa on June 26, 2005, at 21:36:46
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium? » crazyteresa, posted by ed_uk on June 25, 2005, at 16:02:13
My little bottle says West-Ward, Inc., Lithium ER, 450 mg., twice a day. I think Lithium is the generic name, isn't it?
I'm a zombie. I have a terrible headache, very nauseated, feel like I have a big head, very tired--if I sit down at my desk at work, I can't hardly make myself get up when a customer comes in, tired but very restless.
I don't have time to feel this bad!
Thanks Ed! crazy t
Posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 10:36:17
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium? » ed_uk, posted by crazyteresa on June 26, 2005, at 21:36:46
Hi crazy!
>I think Lithium is the generic name, isn't it?
Yes.
>I don't have time to feel this bad!
Perhaps the dose is too high. Some people start off on 300-450mg per day. Can you call your doc and ask to reduce the dose?
~Ed
Posted by yesac on June 27, 2005, at 14:11:16
In reply to More newbie Lithium questions » yesac, posted by Sabino on June 24, 2005, at 17:16:28
> Hi. One more. When you say it started to work after 5 weeks, how did it start to work? How did it make you feel versus the way you felt before it worked?
Just less agitated mostly, less mood lability, more calm and "flat", but flat in a good way-- not so moody, not so flipped out or feeling kind of emotionally out of control.
> I was wondering if you experienced any startup SFX, and how long they took to resolve (if they did).
They haven't really resolved, unfortunately. I have shaky hands and I'm more thirsty than before. When I went up to 900 for a few days, I felt really spaced out and nauseus, so I went back down to 600. I think that I said before, the lith *might* be worsening my attention problems, but I'm not completely sure. I'm considering trying to go down to 450 because of these effects, and because I feel tired (but I think that's from the Seroquel, not the lithium.... Plus it is so hot and humid lately, which could be contributing to my lethargy).
> Have you tried the pstims for help with the attention issues yet?
I have tried Ritalin and Adderall. I'm trying to figure out what to do about the attention issues. I haven't tried that aggressively to really find something to help with that because I was always more concerned with my mood problems. I might try Strattera. Oh, I did try Parnate a couple years ago and it was awful! I just felt really lethargic and emotionally/mentally dulled. I didn't like it at all. If it had helped, the diet wouldn't have been that bad, but it was a hassle to have to worry about what's in your food.
> The symptoms of what I call an anxiety attack, I think, are the same as what I've seen referred to as mixed states. Awful. But, maybe with Li I could possibly try that again.
That's how I felt too. A kind of weird, wacked out, depressed mixed state. I wouldn't dare try Prozac again though because it was just so bad. I'm afraid of all of the SSRIs and most antidepressants now too, after that experience. I just don't want to take anything that might destabilize me or derail the semi-okay mood that I've finally attained. But I might have to take some risks if I ever want to try any other drugs!
> Good luck, whatever you decide to try. Let us know how it goes. It's always heartening to see someone that at long last finds some peace of mind.
Yeah, it's nice to have found something, that's for sure. At least it gives me some hope, but I certainly can't say that things are perfect. I still have my ups and downs and get upset and a bit gloomy or down. And there are still things in life that can bother me a lot, ya know? But there will always be that, and I have to try to not let myself think that everything's falling apart if I happen to feel down for a few hours, especially if there is a reasonable cause for it.
And like I said before, I do feel like it never ends, which is depressing in itself. Like, I still feel as though I'm working at finding the right drugs--- I feel like I need to tweak my lith and Seroquel, and I feel like I need to try some thing(s) for the attention problems, which might take a long time. And I feel like I need to focus on therapy and trying to figure myself out and work on techniques for dealing with social situations/problems and emotions...... it just seems to go on and on.....
Posted by barbaracat on June 27, 2005, at 16:07:35
In reply to Re: More newbie Lithium questions » Sabino, posted by yesac on June 27, 2005, at 14:11:16
Have you tried to go without Seroquel and just stick with Lithium? Hate to knock Seroquel because I know it's helped many, but I had a rotten time on it. It has a very strong anti-histimine component and unfortunately, it doesn't get any better with a lower dose.
I felt constantly fuzzy headed, tired, and more depressed and it never improved. Yes, it did provide extra anti-mania/anit-anxiety benefits but I'm not always manic and the spaced out feeling produced it's own weird anxiety. If I were in the midst of a raging manic episode I wouldn't hesitate to pop a Seroquel, Zyprexa or any other AP, but as long-term maintenance - why? It doesn't make sense. As a sleep-aid? C'mon, that's a pretty hard hitting sleeper. Dopamine antagonism and Tardive Dyskenesia is alot to risk for a mainly anti-histamine knock-out.
I know that antipsychotics are the current darlings of bipolar polypharmacy but IMHO prescribed far too frequently. The clinical literature is full of hope for it's antidepressant abilities, but the anecdotal reports just don't bear this up.
If I were looking to conduct a controlled trial and wondering which med to tweak first it would be Seroquel, not Lithium. You might do just as well on 600mg Li and take the occasional benzo as needed for sleep and anxiety. On a good mood stabilizing regimen you could try a low dose AD. Maybe not Prozac cause it's so activating, but there are plenty out there to choose from and once you're stable but not comatose, that part should go much more smoothly. - Barbara
Posted by crazyteresa on June 27, 2005, at 18:24:03
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium? » crazyteresa, posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 10:36:17
> Perhaps the dose is too high. Some people start off on 300-450mg per day. Can you call your doc and ask to reduce the dose?
>
> ~EdHey Edward!
She is supposed to call me tomorrow once she gets the results back from my blood test, but told me to keep taking it until then. I'll tell her what you suggested. This really sucks!
Thanks a bazillion!
crazy t
Posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 19:01:03
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium? » ed_uk, posted by crazyteresa on June 27, 2005, at 18:24:03
Hi!
Post your blood results :-)
~Ed
Posted by yesac on June 29, 2005, at 12:12:21
In reply to Lithium - is Seroquel necessary? » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 27, 2005, at 16:07:35
> Have you tried to go without Seroquel and just stick with Lithium?
Well, I had been on Seroquel for about 6 months before starting lithium. It helped me sleep, maybe helped calm me down a little. But when the lithium started kicking in, I had the same thoughts as you---- I didn't think I needed Seroquel anymore. I thought all it was doing was helping me sleep, and yeah, I figured I could take something else for that. So I went off Seroquel for 4 days. I took trazodone to help me sleep. After about 2 days, I started to completely fall apart, and it got worse and worse. I pretty much slipped right back down into an agitated despairing suicidal depression.
So, lesson learned, I went back on Seroquel, and things got better after a couple more days. So as much as I would like to go off of it because I do think it's probably more responsible for my lethargy and tiredness, basically I'm afraid to. I already tried once and it was a disaster. The thing is, it seems like I need both of them together, because when I was on S alone, it didn't seem to do that much, and when I was on Lithium alone, it didn't seem to do much.
In many ways, drugs really suck.
I suppose I could try something else instead of the Seroquel, but at this point, I feel like I've just barely reached some kind of stability and feeling somewhat okay, so maybe I should just stay put for the meantime. I've switched regimens so much over the past few years that it might be time to just stay where I am and try to tweak that. Honestly, I just don't know what to do.
> If I were looking to conduct a controlled trial and wondering which med to tweak first it would be Seroquel, not Lithium.I might try to take less Seroquel instead of less lithium. I need to talk to my psychiatrist to help me decide. One thing is that I think lithium augments Seroquel for me, and so it's like I need less Seroquel to get the same or even better benefits than when I was on it alone.
> On a good mood stabilizing regimen you could try a low dose AD. Maybe not Prozac cause it's so activating, but there are plenty out there to choose from
I'm thinking about it. Maybe Zoloft? I had a really bad experience with Prozac even when I was on lithium, so I doubt that I'd ever try that again.... plus, it makes me worry about any antidepressant, even though they're not all so activating.
Posted by barbaracat on June 29, 2005, at 13:04:40
In reply to Re: Lithium - is Seroquel necessary?, posted by yesac on June 29, 2005, at 12:12:21
>
> I might try to take less Seroquel instead of less lithium. I need to talk to my psychiatrist to help me decide. One thing is that I think lithium augments Seroquel for me, and so it's like I need less Seroquel to get the same or even better benefits than when I was on it alone.
>
**That's what I suspect too. Lithium does seem so augment many meds. Not benzos for me, unfortunately, but I need less of everything else.Obviously there's something going on with Seroquel that is helping you. Antipsychotics usually work their magic on schizoprenics by decreasing dopamine. Serotonin has an inverse effect on dopamine. I'm just scratching my head here, but increasing serotonin might be one way to do the same thing but without the histamine thing.
This morning I have first hand experience of that. I couldn't sleep last night and grabbed two of what I thought were temazepams from the cabinet. This morning could not rouse myself until the pee problem got critical and I'm still wobbling around forcing myself to not go back to bed. Looked at the pill bottle I'd left on the counter and it was doxepin, not temazepam! Dox is a heavy histamine hitter and every time I take one of those kinds of meds I feel out of it the whole day.
So, working with your pdoc you might be able to come up with something that can substitute the positive benefits.
>
> I'm thinking about it. Maybe Zoloft?**Zoloft is a darn good AD. It was the only one I could tolerate for long periods of time and on high doses, even not being on lithium. So far I'm happy with Cymbalta at a micro dose, but if I were to switch it would be back to Zoloft.
>>I had a really bad experience with Prozac even when I was on lithium, so I doubt that I'd ever try that again.... plus, it makes me worry about any antidepressant, even though they're not all so activating.
**I understand. Sometimes I become convinced that once you start taking them, a permanent change occurs and you need them for life. But considering the dramatic change for the better I now feel after restarting a very small dose of an AD with lithium after years of being off, I know I need something.
When we're depressed we don't track right and worry about things that generally have solutions. It's usually when I'm not taking a med, or too little of the right one that I worry I'll need it forever. I worry about everything when I'm in an anxious depression. It's when I'm feeling good I usually have more enjoyable things to think about and my heart is filled with thanks for the little chemistry elves who make my pills. Good luck and hope you get the right combo. - Barbara
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