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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
My dx is depression and anxiety. I wake up very scared in the morning and stay scared most of the day. I'm on Celexa and Klonopin 1/2mg. I've tried Zyprexa (works well but wakes up my eating disorder). Also Seroquel, Geodon and Risperdal. None of those helped. Today my pdoc prescribed Navane 1 mg. I'm scared to try it.
Has anyone had experience with this drug or know anything about it? I already searched here and didn't find much about it.
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:51:15
In reply to Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
I forgot to say - the anxiety is not the GAD kind, I'm not worried about anything. It's just fear. Like I've done something horrible and they're coming to arrest me for it in the morning.
Marsha
Posted by Declan on June 15, 2005, at 0:05:08
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. Scared., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:51:15
Never tried it myself. Like they say, just say no. Not a good treatment for fear, and not humane either I expect. Just my 2 bobs worth.
Declan
Posted by jay on June 15, 2005, at 7:32:11
In reply to Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
Hi....
At such a small dose, you should have no problems...and will have less side effects than the newer "atypicals". Besides, some of those new ones are also implicated in Diabetes....something nobody wants as it can be life-threatening. For chronic and/or acute fear and anxiety, I also take perphenazine, an older typical antipsychotic like Navane. Much cheaper...less side effects.
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by ed_uk on June 15, 2005, at 16:59:41
In reply to Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
Hi Marsha,
>I'm scared to try it.
1mg thiothixene (Navane) is a low dose, probably 'equivalent' to about 0.5mg haloperidol (Haldol). Has your pdoc prescribed 1mg to be taken once daily?
Low doses of typical antipsychotics such as Navane, Haldol and perphenazine are sometimes an effective treatment for severe anxiety. High doses are used to treat schizophrenia. High doses can be very unpleasant, as Declan pointed out. High doses are not generally appropriate for the treatment of severe anxiety. Although side effects are much less likely to occur with low doses, tardive dyskinesia may occur after regular long-term use.
>Has anyone had experience with this drug or know anything about it?
What would you like to know?
>Today my pdoc prescribed Navane 1 mg.
Have you taken it?
RE side effects. Navane can sometimes cause akathisia (restlessness). If akathisia occurs, you might have to take an extra dose of Klonopin until the Navane wears off.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2005, at 17:52:23
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 15, 2005, at 16:59:41
Marsha, I'm sorry the fear is back. It had gone away for a while. I'll Babble you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on June 15, 2005, at 19:34:10
In reply to Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
Just in case you're interested.....
http://homepage3.nifty.com/kazano/gallery/navane.html
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on June 15, 2005, at 22:42:05
In reply to Weird Japanese advert for Navane » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 15, 2005, at 19:34:10
> Just in case you're interested.....
>
> http://homepage3.nifty.com/kazano/gallery/navane.html
>
> ~Ed
>
>
If it turns me into a really happy Japanese guy, I'll sue the company! On the other hand, maybe that wouldn't be so bad?Marsha
Posted by 4WD on June 15, 2005, at 22:48:25
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Yes... » 4WD, posted by jay on June 15, 2005, at 7:32:11
Thanks, all. I guess I was just scared because of all the stories about Haldol and I knew it was similar. I haven't gotten the script filled yet but now I will and at least give it a shot. The fear is still with me and I just don't want to take more Klonopin than I am taking. I'm scared of dependency since I already went through that with ATivan years ago.
I told my pdoc that zyprexa had helped the most of all the atypicals I had tried but the eating disorder thing made it a no-go. That's when he suggested the Navane. I wondered if it had similar properties as far as which DA receptors it blocks.
I just have gotten to where I don't much trust the guy. He told me at the same visit that Nardil doesn't generally cause any weight gain or food cravings (that was a possible option). He also told a friend of mine who is also his patient that it would be fine to stop her 30mg of Celexa (for 3 years) without tapering. So it made me wonder if the guy is getting too old to be prescribing.
Thanks for the input\
Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on June 16, 2005, at 6:25:54
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Yes..., posted by 4WD on June 15, 2005, at 22:48:25
Hi Marsha,
>He told me at the same visit that Nardil doesn't generally cause any weight gain or food cravings (that was a possible option).
You're pdoc doesn't sound very good! He did prescribe 1mg/day Navane though which is a suitable starting dose.
>I haven't gotten the script filled yet but now I will and at least give it a shot.
I think it's a good idea to at least try it.....if you don't like it you don't have to take it again. If it causes akathisia (restlessness) you can treat it with an extra dose of Klonopin while you wait for the Navane to wear off. When I had akathisia from Thorazine I had to take a LOT of Valium while I was waiting for it to wear off!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Declan on June 16, 2005, at 8:21:30
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Yes... » 4WD, posted by jay on June 15, 2005, at 7:32:11
Truely fewer side effects with the old ones than the atypical APs????
I've never taken the new ones. They sound quite different.
Posted by 4WD on June 16, 2005, at 22:38:12
In reply to Side effects. Old and new APs, posted by Declan on June 16, 2005, at 8:21:30
> Truely fewer side effects with the old ones than the atypical APs????
> I've never taken the new ones. They sound quite different.So how come everyone is taking the new atypicals instead of low doses of the old ones?
Posted by ed_uk on June 17, 2005, at 7:49:26
In reply to Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 14, 2005, at 23:22:01
Hi Marsha,
Did you take 1mg Navane? I hope it helped.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on June 17, 2005, at 7:55:49
In reply to Re: Side effects. Old and new APs, posted by 4WD on June 16, 2005, at 22:38:12
Hi Marsha,
Atypicals such as Zyprexa tend to cause more weight gain than older APs such as Haldol. Older APs are more likely to cause acute extra-pyramidal side effects and tardive dyskinesia though.
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on June 17, 2005, at 21:14:27
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 17, 2005, at 7:49:26
> Hi Marsha,
>
> Did you take 1mg Navane? I hope it helped.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.Hi Ed,
No, I went to the pharmacy and they didn't have it. The pharmacist kind of shook his head and said he hadn't seen a prescription for Navane for 15 years.
I'm wondering whether the same issues would arise with Navane as with Zyprexa i.e. hard to withdraw from? And I wonder if I could take it as needed instead of every night? And how long before it works. I know the Zyprexa helped big time immediately. No point in asking the pdoc any of this - he also has the same answer: take it every day, no withdrawal problems, hardly any side effects and everybody is different.
So now I'm thinking I'll wait til my appt with my new pdoc (I've decided to change docs) and see what he says. In the meantime I'll just continue with my Klonopin I guess. Or maybe I'll ask the pharmacy to order the Navane. I just don't know. I guess I wouldn't be so scared if I weren't so scared :-)
Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 9:16:22
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » ed_uk, posted by 4WD on June 17, 2005, at 21:14:27
Hi Marsha,
>The pharmacist kind of shook his head and said he hadn't seen a prescription for Navane for 15 years.
I don't think typical APs have been prescribed much in the US since the introduction of the atypicals. They're still used in the UK, especially Haldol and Thorazine.
>I'm wondering whether the same issues would arise with Navane as with Zyprexa i.e. hard to withdraw from?
All APs (can) have withdrawal symptoms, including Navane. I don't know how it would compare to Zyprexa in this department though. Nausea, insomnia and anxiety may occur when withdrawing from typical APs.
>And I wonder if I could take it as needed instead of every night?
Navane might be effective 'as needed'. All typical APs have been used in this way. Effects may appear rapidly after the first dose. In psychotic disorders, the maximum effect occurs after several weeks of daily use, I don't know whether this applies to anxiety though, I have a feeling that it generally doesn't. Certainly, some people find typical APs to be a ueful PRN.
>Or maybe I'll ask the pharmacy to order the Navane.
I'm not sure how expensive Navane is, I'd imagine that it's quite cheap. If it's not, could you pick up part of the prescription?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 16:04:50
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 9:16:22
I'd be more inclined to try it if any of my pdoc's other seemingly random suggestions had panned out. It's hard to trust someone who's been treating you for almost a year when you feel worse rather than better after trying the other things he's come up with.
I also think part of my anxiety is due to traumatic stress and might eventually get better on its own. It's already better than it was a couple of months ago. At heart, I'm med averse. Which really doesn't jive with my interest in everybody's meds and trying to figure out what my "magic pill" (thanks, Phillipa) is. Perhaps I should add indecisiveness to my list of symptoms.
Marsha
Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 16:19:15
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 16:04:50
Hi Marsha,
Navane isn't generally a suitable long term treatment for anxiety, the risk of tardive dyskinesia is too high. I do think it might be a useful med to take 'as needed' though. Some people seem to benefit greatly from taking APs in this way. Personally, the APs that I've tried haven't helped my anxity ........but they did cause severe side effects.
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 21:54:19
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 16:19:15
> Hi Marsha,
>
> Navane isn't generally a suitable long term treatment for anxiety, the risk of tardive dyskinesia is too high. I do think it might be a useful med to take 'as needed' though. Some people seem to benefit greatly from taking APs in this way. Personally, the APs that I've tried haven't helped my anxity ........but they did cause severe side effects.
>
> ~Ed
>
Well, the atypicals didn't help except for Zyprexa so I don't know why he thought a typical one would. I don't know why he thinks anything. One day I will learn to ask during my appointment, "why are you recommending Navane specifically?"Thanks for the info. I still want to be that happy Japanese guy coming out of my box with a big flower in my hands.
Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 22:16:31
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 21:54:19
Hi,
>I don't know why he thought a typical one would.........
I've come across a couple of people who've found typicals more effective than atypicals!
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 23:00:10
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 18, 2005, at 22:16:31
> Hi,
>
> >I don't know why he thought a typical one would.........
>
> I've come across a couple of people who've found typicals more effective than atypicals!
>
> ~EdHow old are you? I thought I saw somewhere you said you were 20? How do you know so much?
Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on June 19, 2005, at 10:44:26
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 23:00:10
I'm 20 - 21 on June 29 :-)
>How do you know so much?
Reading. Obsession. I don't know that much but I do know some useful stuff :-)
~Ed
Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2005, at 17:34:23
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it. » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 19, 2005, at 10:44:26
Ed, Don't be shy. Besides what you read you are studying pharmacology. Fondly, PJ O
Posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2005, at 10:31:48
In reply to Re: Navane for anxiety? Scared to try it., posted by 4WD on June 18, 2005, at 23:00:10
Hi Marsha,
If you get restless on promethazine, Navane is likely to make you very restless!!!
~ED
Posted by 4WD on June 21, 2005, at 22:39:25
In reply to Don't take Navane! » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on June 21, 2005, at 10:31:48
> Hi Marsha,
>
> If you get restless on promethazine, Navane is likely to make you very restless!!!
>
> ~EDThanks, that's good to know. I had about decided that my pdoc doesn't know any other words than atypical and antipsychotic (except he actually calls them "major tranquilizers" - I think to make them more palatable to me). Since I have no psychotic tendencies except when I'm in the middle of panic, I just don't want to go that route anyway. I'll just stick with my Klonopin for now.
Marsha
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