![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 116. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 14:02:37
I've been noticing that a lot of people here seem to hate lithium. It seems like people have had really bad side effects or found it very dulling.
As we all know, everyone's different.... but I am taking lithium now and I really don't mind it that much. My hands tremble, and I'm thirsty, and I think I've gained a few pounds.... but other than that it's really not a problem. And it seems to be one of the only drugs that actually works for me, and seems to help me more than anything else so far (even if the improvement is still rather minimal).
I was just wondering if anyone else likes lithium? Okay, like is a strong word, but.... doesn't mind maybe?
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 8, 2005, at 15:51:13
In reply to Does anyone like lithium?, posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 14:02:37
> I've been noticing that a lot of people here seem to hate lithium. It seems like people have had really bad side effects or found it very dulling.
>
> As we all know, everyone's different.... but I am taking lithium now and I really don't mind it that much. My hands tremble, and I'm thirsty, and I think I've gained a few pounds.... but other than that it's really not a problem. And it seems to be one of the only drugs that actually works for me, and seems to help me more than anything else so far (even if the improvement is still rather minimal).
>
> I was just wondering if anyone else likes lithium? Okay, like is a strong word, but.... doesn't mind maybe?I didn't mind being on lithium...when we added it to Paxil, it was one of the few drugs that worked for my depression. The only side effects I noticed were apathy, some frequent urination and minor weight gain.
Posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 16:09:14
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium?, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 8, 2005, at 15:51:13
So it sounds like you're not on lithium anymore?
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 8, 2005, at 16:23:23
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium? » BIGDaddyachmed69, posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 16:09:14
> So it sounds like you're not on lithium anymore?
Nah...we thought we'd give Lamictal a shot, as the apathy was becoming a real problem. Lithium was better for the depression, but I didn't have to worry about feeling apathetic on Lamictal. Then, last summer, I wind up in the hospital and their staff determines my meds aren't working. They take me off Lamictal and Paxil, and put me on Depakote which sucks in comparison.
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2005, at 17:49:00
In reply to Re: Does anyone like lithium?, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 8, 2005, at 16:23:23
My ex-father-in-law hated his lithium. It was for bipolar illness. Twice a year he would go on a diet and quit his lithium. Then he become manic for about 2 weeks. And then a crash into depression. Then back on the lithium. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 18:55:26
In reply to Does anyone like lithium?, posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 14:02:37
I think negative reports tend to be over-represented on boards like this...people who are doing well on their meds aren't as likely to be on the internet searching for answers.
best regards ~Jake
Posted by barbaracat on June 9, 2005, at 13:48:07
In reply to Does anyone like lithium?, posted by yesac on June 8, 2005, at 14:02:37
I think of my life as before and after lithium. I was being treated for unipolar depression most of my life and just about poisoned on high dose SSRIs. What I really had was severe mixed states Bipolar I psychotic depressions and you can imagine what 300mg zoloft did to that puppy.
I'm taking 600mg which is below my therapeutic level. I refuse to go higher because I will develop those side effects that others hate. This low dose sometimes keeps me skating on the edge of hypomania and is probably less anti-anxiety than optimal but I can deal with that. What it does is keep me centered, more calm, augments my low dose antidepressant. Yes, it's caused me to gain weight and has further harmed my hypothyroid condition but those I can work with. I can't do a thing when I'm manic, schizoid, depressed and disorganized, and lithium is the ONLY med that has helped in that area.
My very strong opinion is that too strong a dose is generally prescribed long term. The therapeutic window applies to 'active manic states' and not appropriate for ongoing maintenance. Once one is down from a mania the dose should be reduced to sub therapeutic level (600mg seems to be a good dose). This prevents the dulling, keeps a steady state and can be raised if needed.
Posted by yesac on June 9, 2005, at 15:37:56
In reply to I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by barbaracat on June 9, 2005, at 13:48:07
> I think of my life as before and after lithium.
I feel like I'm starting to think that way too, even though I haven't been on it long enough to make such a pronouncement. But, so far, it does seem to be, like you said, the only drug that has really made a noticible improvement on some of my syptoms. Other drugs there was MAYBE some kind of minimal improvement, but it was pretty unclear. Lithium-- I can really feel it-- I know it's doing something. Doesn't seem to be perfect, I'm still suffering and still have symptoms... but it's better.
The thing is, I was on it last year and it didn't seem to be as helpful. What I've concluded about that is that when I went on Prozac after being on lithium for about 6 weeks, the Prozac must have really derailed any improvements the lithium was beginning to make. I became really wacked on Prozac, worse than any other drug ever.
I just went up to 900mgs. I'm not sure, but I think my level at 600 was around 0.5. I'd like to see if 900 is better, but if it becomes annoying, I'll just go back down. I need to find another drug to take with it anyways, something for depression.
Posted by barbaracat on June 9, 2005, at 16:09:31
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 9, 2005, at 15:37:56
> I became really wacked on Prozac, worse than any other drug ever.
**Yes, I went on Prozac when it first came out and it destabilized me worse than anything since. I was not on lithium or any other mood stabilizer back then, but have been on other SSRIs sincd and Prozac was still the worst of the lot.
>
> I just went up to 900mgs. I'm not sure, but I think my level at 600 was around 0.5. I'd like to see if 900 is better, but if it becomes annoying, I'll just go back down. I need to find another drug to take with it anyways, something for depression.**I finally realized that I also need something for depression. Lithium keeps me from the really horrible nightmare mixed states but I was still having alot of anxiety and dread but didn't want to increase lithium because of my hypothyroid problem. I'd go up to 900mg if necessary, but that would be the absolute upper limit for me. BTW, I also take L-Taurine, an amino acid that acts like a mood stabilizer and I believe enhances the lithium.
I've been taking a very small amount of Cymbalta and it's worked wonders for me, the best AD I've been on, but with a caveat.
I have to stress the small amount, microdosing (after 3 months I've worked up to only 6mg and the normal starting dose is 30mg). I almost shot into outer space on the 30mg starting dose and just about gave it up except that I sensed something beneficial going on. I take apart the capsule and count out the pellets, each 10 pellets = 1 mg. I started with 1 pellet and worked up to 60.
A few of us bipolars on this board went through the same micro dosing regimen with Cymbalta because more was too much. Bipolars seem to be very hypersensitive to some meds and not others (I can take many times the normal amount of benzos with no effect). You'll find that the lithium will make you require less of an AD and I think vice versa is true - an AD keeps a cap on the lithium dosage creeping up.
As far as the weight, I try to see lithium as a prod, an incentive to exercise more. More exercise, not less eating, is the only thing that keeps a dent in the weight and it makes me feel better too. But it's always a challenge to discipline myself to make the time.
>
>
Posted by gromit on June 12, 2005, at 5:43:54
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 9, 2005, at 15:37:56
> Other drugs there was MAYBE some kind of minimal improvement, but it was pretty unclear. Lithium-- I can really feel it-- I know it's doing something.
I used to do that, try to tell if there was some microscopic improvement that maybe I wasn't noticing. The first time a med did anything positive for me I realized I had been wasting my time, when something works you will know it. That's my opinion anyway, others may disagree. I'm glad you have found something that actually helps.
Rick
Posted by yesac on June 13, 2005, at 10:51:49
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by gromit on June 12, 2005, at 5:43:54
> I used to do that, try to tell if there was some microscopic improvement that maybe I wasn't noticing. The first time a med did anything positive for me I realized I had been wasting my time, when something works you will know it. That's my opinion anyway, others may disagree. I'm glad you have found something that actually helps.
>
Thanks, I am too... but it still needs some tweaking, and I still definitely need something for depression. As much as they say lithium has antidepressant properties, I still feel quite horribly depressed, just not as agitated and flipped out anymore (for the most part).Anyways, I think it was/is just sheer desperation that makes me do that with drugs, look for the microscopic improvement. Sometimes it seems like something is helping, but then I'm just not so sure. And I think that you might be right-- if something is helping so minimally or inconsistently that you barely notice it and aren't even sure if it's from the drug, maybe it isn't worth it to bother anymore. I just never want to give up on a drug if there's any hope that it might be helping.
Posted by gromit on June 13, 2005, at 15:50:29
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by yesac on June 13, 2005, at 10:51:49
> Anyways, I think it was/is just sheer desperation that makes me do that with drugs, look for the microscopic improvement. Sometimes it seems like something is helping, but then I'm just not so sure. And I think that you might be right-- if something is helping so minimally or inconsistently that you barely notice it and aren't even sure if it's from the drug, maybe it isn't worth it to bother anymore. I just never want to give up on a drug if there's any hope that it might be helping.
No I totally get it, I hope my post didn't come across as judgmental, that's not really the word I'm looking for. You have a good point about not giving up on a med too soon, I've been med hopping the last 6 months or so. I'm sure I didn't give some of them a fair trial. It's just that I've stayed on drugs that didn't work for fairly long periods. It seems like my life is wasting away, there's such a thing as being too patient I think. Maybe I've swung too far the other way, I have a hard time finding balance sometimes.
I still believe that like they say, the answers are out there.
Rick
Posted by yesac on June 14, 2005, at 10:37:34
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by gromit on June 13, 2005, at 15:50:29
> No I totally get it, I hope my post didn't come across as judgmental, that's not really the word I'm looking for.
No not at all. I just felt the need to explain, I guess! :)> It's just that I've stayed on drugs that didn't work for fairly long periods. It seems like my life is wasting away, there's such a thing as being too patient I think. Maybe I've swung too far the other way, I have a hard time finding balance sometimes.
You're right, there is such a thing as being too patient. I think I have a hard time findign the right balance too. I stay on drugs much longer than other people would, put up with annoying side effects, struggle to see if there's any chance it's working, push the dose up higher to see if it might work. It's difficult with these drugs because a lot of them take so long to work, plus they are so "finicky" so sometimes a small adjustment or the addition of another drug or a switch to brand name or whatever else might make all the difference.
>
> I still believe that like they say, the answers are out there.
>Really? I'm not sure that I do believe that anymore.... I've been coming to a different conclusion that perhaps there are no answers at all!
Posted by gromit on June 15, 2005, at 18:14:50
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by yesac on June 14, 2005, at 10:37:34
> You're right, there is such a thing as being too patient. I think I have a hard time findign the right balance too. I stay on drugs much longer than other people would, put up with annoying side effects, struggle to see if there's any chance it's working, push the dose up higher to see if it might work. It's difficult with these drugs because a lot of them take so long to work, plus they are so "finicky" so sometimes a small adjustment or the addition of another drug or a switch to brand name or whatever else might make all the difference.
You are right of course, 200 mg of Provigil was a sugar pill, 300 mg and I was like a new person until it stopped working. We need to give these things a fair trial before moving on.
Here is a short story that explains why I came to the conclusions I did. My pdoc thought I might be bipolar so he put me on depakote, 500 mg to start. I got sick, I mean physically sick, I've posted about the side effects before, I can find it but it's not really important what the problems were. So I go back after a month and he says ok try 250, I don't mention that I've been taking 250 for the last week. Another month goes by and I'm on to Lamictal. Ok, 2 months is not very long, I've stayed on meds that did nothing for much longer, but I really believe if I had continued taking depakote it would have killed me. It's like my immune system system just shut down.
Anyway, I relate this experience to my family doctor and she asks me "why the h*ll did you keep taking it"? If I could do ascii art I'd draw a picture of a lightbulb over my dumb head. This my life, as far as I know there is one shot at it. No longer am I going to accept treatment that isn't working, a doctor who is condecending, who minimalises my troubles or the side effects of medications. If I hire an interior designer and I absolutely hate what they come up with, I'm not going to defer to them. If the gardener kills my lawn he's fired. Anyone who works for me, including my doctor who WORKS FOR ME, that isn't producing the results I want is fired. I'm tired of being nice, I'm tired of being patient. I don't know if this makes any sense at all.> Really? I'm not sure that I do believe that anymore.... I've been coming to a different conclusion that perhaps there are no answers at all!
I refuse to believe there is no answer, fingers in ears, la la la la la...
Rick
Posted by barbaracat on June 15, 2005, at 19:58:38
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by gromit on June 15, 2005, at 18:14:50
Hi Wonder Druggies,
Dumb questions, but have you tried lithium? My armchair theory is thus: if you are bipolar, especially bipolar I, you will benefit beyond your wildest dreams from lithium. If you are any other flavored bipolar, well, maybe yes, maybe no. I think the gold standard of bipolar diagnosis is, if you feel better, i.e., more calm, more centered, more organized, more forgiving towards those you heretofore libeled traitors, if you sleep better, then chances are you are classically bipolar. The other meds are phooey as far as I'm concerned. I've tried most of them (mood stabilizers) and the only one, THE ONLY ONE that gave me my life back was lithium. If this is true for you, even a little bit, then you are bipolar. If lithium and all the rest of the mood stabilizers simply don't work - keep looking. Much luck to you. - BarbaraCat
Posted by yesac on June 16, 2005, at 10:18:08
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium, posted by barbaracat on June 15, 2005, at 19:58:38
> Hi Wonder Druggies,
Who are you callin a wonder druggie?! ;)
> Dumb questions, but have you tried lithium? My armchair theory is thus: if you are bipolar, especially bipolar I, you will benefit beyond your wildest dreams from lithium. If you are any other flavored bipolar, well, maybe yes, maybe no.
** Well here's the weird thing about that... I've heard that too-- that lithium works better for bipolar I, and anticonvulsants often work better for "non-traditional" types of bipolar, including BP II, BP NOS, BP spectrum, mixed states, and rapid cycling. But for me, and I am definitely not classic BPI, lithium seems to help me feel better and the other drugs don't. The other drugs being Depakote, Trileptal, Lamictal, and maybe others-- there's so many I can't remember!However, what I've recently discovered is that I need a low dose of Seroquel with the lithium to produce the desired results. I stopped taking Seroquel for a few days and kind of fell apart. But Seroquel alone wasn't enough... so it's like I really need BOTH. I wonder if I took S with those drugs they might then work for me. Or if I took lithium with any of those drugs.
>I think the gold standard of bipolar diagnosis is, if you feel better, i.e., more calm, more centered, more organized, more forgiving towards those you heretofore libeled traitors, if you sleep better, then chances are you are classically bipolar. The other meds are phooey as far as I'm concerned. I've tried most of them (mood stabilizers) and the only one, THE ONLY ONE that gave me my life back was lithium. If this is true for you, even a little bit, then you are bipolar.** Well, then, I guess according to the BarbaraCat Book of Diagnostics, I must be bipolar. Maybe I am, I still don't really know, I guess it doesn't matter that much. I'm just glad that something is helping, finally after all these years.
Posted by yesac on June 16, 2005, at 10:48:38
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by gromit on June 15, 2005, at 18:14:50
> You are right of course, 200 mg of Provigil was a sugar pill, 300 mg and I was like a new person until it stopped working. We need to give these things a fair trial before moving on.I have a friend who thinks that I have some kind of drug metabolism situation (fast metabolizer) and that's why I don't respond to so many meds. She thinks that I need to try higher doses of a lot of them. My shink, on the other hand, thinks that for the most part if a drug doesn't work at a reasonable dose, going up to a higher dose won't help. He thinks going up to a higher dose will help when the drug works to some extent at a lower dose. So I don't know.
>
> No longer am I going to accept treatment that isn't working, a doctor who is condecending, who minimalises my troubles or the side effects of medications. If I hire an interior designer and I absolutely hate what they come up with, I'm not going to defer to them. If the gardener kills my lawn he's fired. Anyone who works for me, including my doctor who WORKS FOR ME, that isn't producing the results I want is fired. I'm tired of being nice, I'm tired of being patient. I don't know if this makes any sense at all.
What happened with the Lamictal?Yeah you're story makes a lot of sense. A similar thing happened to me. Well, it wasn't as bad as your Depakote situation... basically I've seen 4 psychiatrists in the past 7 years. The first one was okay-- she was my college's psychiatrist, and it was my first experience with drugs so I didn't know much. The next one, who was actually a psychiatric NP, was condescending and I didn't feel like she trusted me, which was a huge problem for me. After she refused to prescribe Effexor for me because I wasn't going to be in the area for a few months, I quit seeing her and never went back. The third was a shrink at a community clinic, and I hated their stupid policies-- you couldn't call and talk to your psychiatrist, you were supposed to voice med issues to your therapist who would tell the psychiatrist! Also, you could only get an appt once every few months MAYBE. Plus I didn't feel like she respected me, evidenced by the fact that she'd show up at the clinic 15 minutes after my appointment was supposed to start. I got really pissed off by that treatment, and decided I didn't need that crap. Just like you, I realized that I could do better, I was paying for this, my mental health is too important to take that bullsh*t.
Okay now I'm just ranting and raving... well, to wrap the story up, I found my current psychiatrist, who is in private practice, and I've see him for therapy and meds for the past 2 years. He made me realize that there ARE in fact decent psychiatrists out there if you look hard enough.
> I refuse to believe there is no answer, fingers in ears, la la la la la...
>By the way, I've embedded a subliminal message in this post. It's about answers. In fact, it IS the answers. Now you will Know.
Posted by barbaracat on June 16, 2005, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » barbaracat, posted by yesac on June 16, 2005, at 10:18:08
> > Hi Wonder Druggies,
>
> Who are you callin a wonder druggie?! ;)
>
**Wasn't me!>>I've heard that too-- that lithium works better for bipolar I, and anticonvulsants often work better for "non-traditional" types of bipolar, including BP II, BP NOS, BP spectrum, mixed states, and rapid cycling. But for me, and I am definitely not classic BPI, lithium seems to help me feel better and the other drugs don't.
**I was originally dx'd as BP-II and it seemed to fit in that my typical symptoms were primarily depressed with the occasional hypomanic state. This could be intense productivity or just extreme irritability. I'd also have plain old depression as well. And then normal life for long periods of time.
But SOME of my episodes were real corkers that didn't fit any description. I called them 'depressions' for lack of any other label but these were nightmarish hallucinogenic horrors that scared me and everyone around me. Extreme despair, existential angst, constant wailing, precognitions of doom, combined with constant panic attacks. These were the episodes that no meds helped and I'd just have to live through them and pick up the shattered pieces of my existence afterwards.
Lithium has blessedly stopped these horrors and after much research into the many flavors of bipolar, I've come to the conclusion that these extreme episodes were Bipolar I Mixed-states depression. My impression is that BP-I differs from BP-II primarily in intensity and the presence of psychosis. But note that it wasn't always like this. The gradient moved around.
Now, who knows what these gradients mean? They all get lumped under the term 'bipolar', but maybe they're not just a gradient, but a different condition? I do know that lithium works primarily on the electrical potential of the neuron rather than the chemical messenger system, as most of the other meds do. So maybe that's what needs tweaking and without proper electrical conductivity, all other meds will fail. It would be interesting in your case, if Depakote and Seroquel or some other combo would work as well. Depakote and Seroquel are considered a very good combo. But definitely not for me. It's a crap shoot. But If I had to take any of them, I'd take lithium. It seems to have the most benign s/e profile when taken in moderation. And like you mentioned, even has neurogenesis properties that the others may not.
I know that as long as I have lithium on board, I can experiment with other meds, even SNRI's which before were not a good idea. But I can't do any of the other mood stabilizers or antipsychotics. Weird. Lithium acts very differently from these. So, maybe there is another country where lithium is the language. Who knows. I just know that I have symptoms that are mainly BP-II and occasionally descend into BP-I and lithium works and I need a pinch of an AD. You know, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... As long as the lithium keeps working, the labels are just of academic interest and a guidepost for what to be aware of if things start getting weird.
Good luck to you. I truly hope you're on your way to some lasting relief. - Barbara
Posted by theo on June 16, 2005, at 16:55:07
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » yesac, posted by gromit on June 15, 2005, at 18:14:50
Depakote did the same thing to me at 500mg and my doc said to keep taking it for 6 weeks! I even asked the nurse for an appointment and she said "all I can tell you is he said he wants you to stay on it for 6 weeks." I had an upper respiratory infection and finally called another doc who is a friend and had him call me in an antibiotic.
I don't know what it is, but many anticonvulsants (Lamictal, Depakote, Topamax) give me a sorethroat and upper respiratory infection.
Posted by gromit on June 17, 2005, at 2:06:06
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by yesac on June 16, 2005, at 10:48:38
> I have a friend who thinks that I have some kind of drug metabolism situation (fast metabolizer) and that's why I don't respond to so many meds. She thinks that I need to try higher doses of a lot of them. My shink, on the other hand, thinks that for the most part if a drug doesn't work at a reasonable dose, going up to a higher dose won't help. He thinks going up to a higher dose will help when the drug works to some extent at a lower dose. So I don't know.
I think the second theory makes more sense, although if you are tolerating the med pretty well maybe pushing the dose up fairly high is worth trying.
> What happened with the Lamictal?Well I've never been diagnosed with any type of bipolar disorder, I don't know why he insisted on depakote. He wanted to try lithium next but I steered him towards lamactil because I had read that it sometimes has an AD effect. As far as I can tell it did nothing, a short boost every increase but 200 mg wasn't doing anything I could detect.
> Okay now I'm just ranting and raving... well, to wrap the story up, I found my current psychiatrist, who is in private practice, and I've see him for therapy and meds for the past 2 years. He made me realize that there ARE in fact decent psychiatrists out there if you look hard enough.You're right, you can find a good doctor if you keep trying. Sorry to hear you've met some of these people too, it's good you've found someone who will work with you. Your comment about the doctor being late struck a nerve, the last guy was cronically late. His art classes at the local JC were more important. I actually spent probably 30 minutes of one session fixing his computer, on my dime (well my co-pay anyway).
I only have myself to blame, you are bound to run into these kind of people, doctors are not exempt from being total jerks. Once you've identified them, if you have the option to ditch them and you don't, it becomes your fault, you get exactly what you've chosen. My opinion anyway.
I've had kind of the opposite experience from yours. My current 10-15 min visits at a (University) public clinic with a resident are way more productive than an "hour" with the expensive private pdoc. Except for the first visit it was never an hour, especially if someone else was waiting. The last 3-4 visits I had with him were 30 minutes which is really more like 20 minutes. He always billed for an hour and I paid the co-pay for an hour. Like I said, completely my fault for putting up with it, I said nothing at the time. That won't happen again. I'm just glad he's in the past, what a tool.
My turn to rant I guess, actually the last post was probably mostly ranting.
> By the way, I've embedded a subliminal message in this post. It's about answers. In fact, it IS the answers. Now you will Know.
Dammit, as usual I was wearing my metallic head protection gear and missed out on the secret information.
Rick
Posted by gromit on June 17, 2005, at 2:18:54
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by theo on June 16, 2005, at 16:55:07
> Depakote did the same thing to me at 500mg and my doc said to keep taking it for 6 weeks! I even asked the nurse for an appointment and she said "all I can tell you is he said he wants you to stay on it for 6 weeks." I had an upper respiratory infection and finally called another doc who is a friend and had him call me in an antibiotic.
You're the only other person I've heard about that had this happen, my pdoc thought the idea was ridiculous. Yeah same thing here, upper respiratory infection plus nasty fungal infection. I felt absolutely horrible the entire time.
> I don't know what it is, but many anticonvulsants (Lamictal, Depakote, Topamax) give me a sorethroat and upper respiratory infection.Lamactil and Dilantin (as a child) didn't do this to me, hmmm. Dilantin did make me feel terrible too but no physical illness that I remember. I just know if I ever get something like that again I'm stopping the med whatever the doctor says.
Rick
Posted by barbaracat on June 17, 2005, at 13:26:39
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » theo, posted by gromit on June 17, 2005, at 2:18:54
Your respiratory infection may have a very good explanation. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but I was trawling the net and found an article that Depakote decreases white blood cell counts. So, if you're prone to these things and your immune system is depressed, voila!
Doesn't quite explain the fungal infections, except if you were given antibiotics to combat the respiratory infection and that wiped out the good guys too.
Regarding Lamictal giving you a sore throat, well, that raises some red flags. I became very sick with Stevens Johnson Syndrome - the RASH. I got it after I stopped Lamictal and from a drug in the sulfa family I'd never had any problems with before. I stopped Lam because I was getting strange itching on my skin and a sore throat and what I thought was a yeast infection. Full-blown SJS caused major sore throat because all my mucous membranes were blistered. Even though I didn't get SJS while taking Lam, I'm very sure that Lam started an allergic process.
My intention isn't to needlessly scare anyone, but anticonvulsants especially can cause some bizarre reactions. Before any psychiatrist poo-poos a symptom as ridiculous, he/she ought to look a bit more carefully at the long list of possible side effects. My pdoc never entertained the possibility that my skin sensitivities could be due to Lamictal and jokingly suggested my cats had given me 'fleas'. Don't these folks ever trawl the net for clues like we do?
> > Depakote did the same thing to me at 500mg and my doc said to keep taking it for 6 weeks! I even asked the nurse for an appointment and she said "all I can tell you is he said he wants you to stay on it for 6 weeks." I had an upper respiratory infection and finally called another doc who is a friend and had him call me in an antibiotic.
>
> You're the only other person I've heard about that had this happen, my pdoc thought the idea was ridiculous. Yeah same thing here, upper respiratory infection plus nasty fungal infection. I felt absolutely horrible the entire time.
>
> > I don't know what it is, but many anticonvulsants (Lamictal, Depakote, Topamax) give me a sorethroat and upper respiratory infection.
>
> Lamactil and Dilantin (as a child) didn't do this to me, hmmm. Dilantin did make me feel terrible too but no physical illness that I remember. I just know if I ever get something like that again I'm stopping the med whatever the doctor says.
>
>
> Rick
>
Posted by gromit on June 17, 2005, at 14:30:15
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by barbaracat on June 17, 2005, at 13:26:39
> Your respiratory infection may have a very good explanation. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but I was trawling the net and found an article that Depakote decreases white blood cell counts. So, if you're prone to these things and your immune system is depressed, voila!
>
> Doesn't quite explain the fungal infections, except if you were given antibiotics to combat the respiratory infection and that wiped out the good guys too.What you said makes a lot of sense, yes I did get several courses of antibiotics. My sinuses were really infected, it would clear up for a few days and come right back. It all stopped shortly after discontinuing depakote.
> Regarding Lamictal giving you a sore throat, well, that raises some red flags. I became very sick with Stevens Johnson Syndrome - the RASH. I got it after I stopped Lamictal and from a drug in the sulfa family I'd never had any problems with before. I stopped Lam because I was getting strange itching on my skin and a sore throat and what I thought was a yeast infection. Full-blown SJS caused major sore throat because all my mucous membranes were blistered. Even though I didn't get SJS while taking Lam, I'm very sure that Lam started an allergic process.
I remember reading your story about this some time ago, I'm glad you came thru ok. I also vaguely recall my doctor saying something about sulfa drugs and Lamactil but what exactly was said I don't remember. I think you've mixed up my comments with Theo's though, I had no real effects positive or negative from Lamactil. Still, good information.
> My intention isn't to needlessly scare anyone, but anticonvulsants especially can cause some bizarre reactions. Before any psychiatrist poo-poos a symptom as ridiculous, he/she ought to look a bit more carefully at the long list of possible side effects. My pdoc never entertained the possibility that my skin sensitivities could be due to Lamictal and jokingly suggested my cats had given me 'fleas'. Don't these folks ever trawl the net for clues like we do?
Apparently not, my old pdoc would have to consult his PDA or product inserts to make any kind of decision. Forget something relatively uncommon. I've also had family doctors who suddenly seem to start doubting what I say when they find out I'm seeing a pdoc. I find your doctor's "jokes" disturbing, it's a potentionally life threatening reaction after all. Do you still see him?
Rick
Posted by Sabino on June 17, 2005, at 18:06:26
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » gromit, posted by barbaracat on June 17, 2005, at 13:26:39
Hi all,
I just started Lithobid 300 mgs yesterday. I was wondering how many times you Lithium vets dose daily?
I have really liked Li so far. I mean, it seems to agree with me after a gazillion failed attempts at other meds. I have an aggitated sort of depression, and within an hour of dosing, my frazzled sort of thinking just calms right out, and I start marvelling at how nice and calm I feel.
I already feel like I'd like to try 600, maybe a morning dose, and an evening one. I've been giving Effexor XR a good trial currently too. I'm just over 7 weeks with that. I'm at 225mgs Eff (the past 9 days), and 15 mgs Remeron for sleep.
Even when I have an AD that sort of works, because of my super fast metabolism, I usually dose, then an hour or two later, I'll feel good for a couple of hours, then crash for the rest of the day. Ultimately, that's just too hard to deal with.
I was hoping that maybe Lithium would smooth things out... you know, get rid of the daily roller coaster. And I thought since when I use an AD, that my garden variety depression turns into anxious depression, that perhaps a good mood stabilizer might be the ticket.
Much to my great surprise, after the very first dose of Li, like I said, I had that great feeling of calm, and just well being. But that wears off after 4 or so hours too. But at least not a hard crash like with AD's.
I know my reactions to meds are not at all standard, and I attribute that to the high metabolism. It's made it very difficult, and I've still not found relief.
Anyway, just wanted to say hi, and that so far, so good with Li. I'd be shocked if after all this time fooling around with AD's, that something as old as Lithium does the trick. That would be a miracle.
I got in such a bad way that 7 weeks ago, I took a leave of absence from work. Tried to go back after 3 weeks, and just wasn't up to it. Another 4 weeks, and another try at returning. I lasted 5 minutes, had a panic attack, and left. Then later the same day (yesterday), tried Li for the first time, and felt a relief I haven't known in some time. Hope it isn't a placebo effect.
Sorry for the long, boring post. Best to you all.
Messed up in Mexico, living on refried dreams.
Posted by theo on June 17, 2005, at 23:46:14
In reply to Re: I LOVE lithium » theo, posted by gromit on June 17, 2005, at 2:18:54
Wow! I actually had to take a liquid, Nystatin, for a yeast, fungal infection!! I'm 41 and NEVER had a fungal infection until Depakote.
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