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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Minnie-Haha on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:58
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie Haha-pruf? » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2005, at 15:48:42
> M-H,
> You wrote,[..I don't know if anyone could provide...proof...].
> Thanks anyway for your links.
> LouYes, I wrote: "Considering how contentious this debate can become, I don't know if anyone could provide *sufficient* proof to satisfy *either* side (those who believe depression can have a brain-chemistry source and those who don't)..."
Hope you enjoy the links.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2005, at 17:03:38
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Minnie Haha, posted by Minnie-Haha on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:58
M-H,
You wrote,[...either side...].
Could you clarify if any of the following are what you mean?
A. the chemical-imbalace theory does not need to be proven
B. one needs to prove that the chemical imbalance theory is false
C. One needs not to prove that a theory is false.
D. A theory is true unless one proves it is false
E. The chemical imbalance theory of psychiatry is accepted by all psychiatrists.
F. A combination of the above
G. None of the above
H. something else
Lou
Posted by Minnie-Haha on February 24, 2005, at 21:50:09
In reply to Lou's reply to Minnie- Haha-ethrsid » Minnie-Haha, posted by Lou Pilder on February 24, 2005, at 17:03:38
> Could you clarify if any of the following are what you mean?
> A. the chemical-imbalace theory does not need to be proven
> B. one needs to prove that the chemical imbalance theory is false
> C. One needs not to prove that a theory is false.
> D. A theory is true unless one proves it is false
> E. The chemical imbalance theory of psychiatry is accepted by all psychiatrists.
> F. A combination of the above
> G. None of the above
> H. something elseHuh? "H" I guess. Theories involve speculation. What I meant was, for most who already believe that depression cannot or is not caused by brain chemistry and who don't believe that medications can help, no amount of what anyone else provides as proof is gonna pass muster... It'll just remain a theory at best, never enough proof. And for most who believe depression can be or is caused by brain chemistry and who do believe medications can help, no amount of what others provide as their proof is gonna pass the test either. It's kinda like debating religions. That's just my opinion.
Posted by FaithT on February 26, 2005, at 7:50:51
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Minnie-Haha, posted by not2late4u on February 20, 2005, at 1:35:00
Hi Renee and Minnie~
I haven't been here in a little while.
I just wanted to say that I obviously agree with both of you ladies...Renee, I am SO proud of you, girl!Every word that you both posted is 100% true and from the heart in regard to Effexor and life in general. You know..sometimes, you have to take the bad with the good and vice versa. It is our own responsibility to weigh the pros and cons of ANY medicine that we put in our mouths. Yes, ofcourse with a knowledgable PSYCHIATRIST.
People...if you are taking these meds, and you are not seeing a psych, you're already headed in the wrong direction. A G.P. just doesn't have the knowledge and training that you need, while on these meds. YES, there are also some psychs. out there as well, that may not give proper care. If that is the case, then change Dr.'s!
AGAIN, be your own advocate people! If you feel like something isn't working, then change it. If you feel like Effexor is the wrong med. for you, giving you bad side effects, making you anxious, then speak to you PSYCH. about switching.
YES, it can be done. Renee weaned off of it successfully...Read her journal. I previously weaned off of it, but made the choice to go back on at a later date. Why? Because it works VERY well for me, after almost 3 years. No, I did NOT have any lasting effects when I weaned off...not everyone does, Yes, some do, and I am not denying that.
I am not a scientist, and I can not provide clinical data showing you that chemical imbalances DO occur in the brain, when severely depressed. However, I can tell you that it's the obvious truth in my case. When you evolve into a clinical depression for whatever reason, MANY people can not bring themselves out of it on their own. I am one of them, and I still thank God for Effexor. Without it, I would still be curled up in a dark room, unable to care for myself, husband and child. With it, I have sunshine again. Who wouldn't be thankful for that?
Best wishes to you all in your journey,
Faith~
Posted by lovie on March 2, 2005, at 12:56:02
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi eveyone!
I just started taking Effexor XR about 3 weeks ago. I have been seeing some inprovement but I still don't feel like my old self. My Doc. said it could take up to 8 weeks to get the full effect. Does it really take that long or is Effexor alone not enough for me?Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a bunch-MM
Posted by Jen2 on March 2, 2005, at 17:36:46
In reply to Is Effexor alone going to help, posted by lovie on March 2, 2005, at 12:56:02
It was almost exactly six weeks to the day since I started taking Effexor that it finally "kicked in" and I began to feel normal again (whatever normal means). That is, it took that long before I felt reasonably happy. Until then, I felt able to cope pretty well but still sort of down and depressed. I hope that it kicks in earlier for you, but yes, it can take that long.
Jen
Posted by Germaine on March 6, 2005, at 20:05:26
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Nesser on February 21, 2005, at 19:47:53
I started on Effexor 37XR and found within the first hour I felt better. I stayed on this dosage for six more days. Then I moved up to 75XR. I felt great for about 4 days then slowly I felt no effects.I then moved up to 150 XR after four weeks of feeling nothing much. This always happens to me with every antidepressant. I am 45 and have not been on an antidepressant for 8 years. Only because with everything I have ever taken Paxil, Nardil, Parnate, Prozac, and a host of others, this always happens to me. Somewhere between 2 weeks and 5 weeks, the effects of the antidepressant seem to disappear. I always end up just going off them and living on the depressed side. I self medicate. Lots of coffee and health food store pills. Going off them “cold turkey” has never been a problem either. Today I have taken nothing and feel good. So tomorrow, I will try 75mg and then take it every other day. Also, with alcohol, I can drink more than the next person can. I do not drink that much, wine,- a glass every night- but I never remember getting drunk since high school. My illness was an eating disorder for 14 years...so maybe it stems from that.
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2005, at 20:41:52
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Germaine on March 6, 2005, at 20:05:26
Sometimes your mind will allow you to feel better because you are full of anticipation. It takes the drugs at least 2wks to 4wks and longer to respond. Except years ago I took 20mg of Prozac and was able to wallpaper the foyer, and the next day was anxious, then the third day panic, and 3 days of xanax to make it go away. The pdoc begged me to stay on it and only take it every 3 days. I refused. He said it was a dramatic response. Should I have stayed on it as he said? Now, I could get the liquid and take a small amt daily. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on March 6, 2005, at 21:36:54
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! » Germaine, posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2005, at 20:41:52
I just thought I should share that I am now decreasing the effexor with no ill effects - sometimes in the evenings I feel a little anxious - like a restless legs syndrome - anybody else?? I'm not sure that's diff from when I was on 150. I was on 150 mg/day and am now down to 75mg for 3 weeks. My doc feels I should stay on that for a while longer before decreasing any more - I still have occasional excruciating headaches and insomnia and restlessness, and think it's caused by the effexor instead of being a cure for it. I had to start taking Hi-blood pressure meds so I hope that I can get off that if I get off the effexor. I have a lot of general body ache and my doc was reading the side-effects of the lisinopril and that's one of them. I occasionally take Ambian to get a good night's sleep.
Anyway, the person, Germaine?, who said they were self-medicating with supplements - why do you call it self-medicating? I feel like that is a better way to go than pharmaceuticals and that you might want to consider getting the guidance of a Naturopath. In my state they are covered by most medical insurance but not in all states. Even out of pocket, it might be worth it since the AD's don't seem to work for you. Are you doing some other healthy living options like regular exercise, eliminating sugar from your diet and increasing the fruits and veggies? Also, I've found that moving to music, either couples dancing classes or free form dancing or dance aerobics is of great benefit for lifting depression, more than just straight exercise in a gym or doing a treadmill. Sometimes I just put on some good music in my apt and dance alone to it. Oh well, hope you find something to put a smile on your face.
Winddancer
Posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 9:44:19
In reply to Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on March 6, 2005, at 21:36:54
Won't ever say 'had a nervous breakdown' in jest again.
My body simply crumbled, could barely walk and was slower than a turtle. Hyperventilated until could hardly breathe. Head fullness on top of head. Just plain 'broke' ... and I mean really broke!
Nothing in my life has ever been so frightening.
Stayed w/ daughter three days for food and company. All along, my mind was clear.
There were probably 10 incidents (one a 10yr relationship ended) which occured prior to this, but, like I said, was clear in mind and not at all suicidal. I was actually very proud of myself for having finally let go of a toxic relationship.
Got worse after 3rd day at daughters. I knew I needed doctors and nurses. Went in hospital here. Now am home from six day stay.
Some kind of separation of mind and body happened to me. Boy, our minds, our brains must be very, very strong.
I began titrating off Eff-XR @ hospital. From 225, to 150, to 75, to 37.5 currently. All this in six days at hospital.
The Effexor-XR withdrawal followed the breakdown and I thought 'if this is what can happen to me while on it, ... I've got to let it go.'
I take Valium now (instead of Xanax) since it is longer acting.
I take Seroquel now, instead of trazodone at bedtime, and can take little bits of Seroquel during the daytime if have panic attack.
I am also prescribed Trileptal 300mg 3x a day. This one, am questionable about what is my necessity for this?!
Anyway, all meds changed during this six day hospital stay.
Again, a 'zombie' feeling which I have, precipitated Effexor-XR.
I feel that either Seroquel or Trileptal are causing this 'zombie' feeling.
Anyone ever take these two meds, together, or alone, and have this 'zombie' feeling? Did it pass w/ time? Has anyone had success on Seroquel or Trileptal?
I feel pretty sure that the Seroquel is helping the Eff-XR withdrawal and my anxiety. Trileptal though, not sure.
May my dose be too high on Seroquel (30mg if needed for panic during day and 300mg for sleep) and Trileptal (300mg x2 a day)? I am 5'4" and weight 105. I do not metabolize well.
Any opinions? So appreciated.
I will cc this and post in withdawal; here somewhere.
best wishes all, cf
Posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 9:52:52
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 9:44:19
To be clear, my prior post; the Effexor-XR withdrawal followed this 'breakdown.'
One of the many things which happened in the maybe month and a half prior to my 'shutdown', was a STOP W/ NO TITRATION of Klonopin; p-doc just wrote Xanax ... which not on now - now taking Valium. I should have self-advocated there.
Even in the hospital, when switched from Xanax to Valium, I had to continually bug the staff about titrating me. They weren't and it was awful. I finally convinced them to titrate it and was much better.
Boy, you really have to look out for yourself when hospitalized.
They tried give me a med that wasn't even mine. I requested that all my nurses (diff' shifts) speak the name of the med outloud before giving it to me.
Oh, lots of stories in that six day period!
I feel very badly for any people who slip through the crack because they are not able to pay very close attention to their treatment.
again, cf
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 14:18:19
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 9:52:52
I'm really sorry to hear you're having such a rough time. Yes, being in the hospital is hard work. Besides having the wrong meds given to you, and no titrating, they are constantly changing generics so the pills look different. I know as I was a psych RN. Sometimes we left the pill in the packet so the pt could read the name of it before taking it because it was a different manufacturer and looked totally different. I didn't have any trouble going from klonopin to valium, which I am on now. I think it is a very good drug. I found that I have to pay to get the brandname though. The generics are not as strong. I did take trileptal once but only l50mg and didn't have any side effects from it. I think the seroquel may be making you feel like a zombie. I tried it in the hospital and it made me feel drunk. Valium is known for use in W/D from xanax, and alcholol. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 15:05:46
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » corafree, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 14:18:19
Hi all
Cannot find Medications listed on the Dr. Bob page.
Appreciate opinion re: Seroquel; may be causing 'zombieness'.
The P at hospital said Depakote and I cringed; said lithium and I cringed. Bad experiences years ago.
I've a friend who's manic bipolar; on Seroquel, but she's never a 'zombie.' Maybe, because she is manic...not sure.
Any alternative mood stabilizers anyone can suggest before see P tomorrow????I really, really need sleep. The 300mg Seroquel is for sleep (don't feel like 'zombie' when awaken, so maybe could increase that a bit, as been awakening TOO early), and then use the 25mg for anxiety/panic.
Philipa, you jogged my memory; remember refusing daytime 25mg Seroquel after a day of total drowsiness and missing smoke breaks and groups.
Yep, think I felt like a 'zombie' first day after started Seroquel, ... before starting Trileptal!
At home now, just took a noon Seroquel 25mg and went to lie down and rest.
May communicate to my P wish to increase sleep dose Seroquel a bit @ h.s. and continue 25mg for anxiety/panic/needed rest.
I'd have to finish a triathlon to go to sleep day or night w/o a med. Have been on a sleep aid many, many yrs.
Going to do some research on Trileptal to try understand the indications for usage.
It's great the way someone follows up your post and it helps you to recall things or think about things differently.
Sincerely cf
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 15:27:38
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » Phillipa, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 15:05:46
You know you triggered my memory too. The pdoc had started me on trileptal to help mood and sleep he said. He was planning on going higher but that was when he became the "bad" pdoc and I stopped seeing him. I never looked it up as the dose was so small. Keep us Posted on what you find out I'd be curious. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 16:30:03
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » corafree, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 15:27:38
Phillipa (two ls) ... sure, will keep posted.
Mood and sleep ... hmmm, ... then why would you take it three times a day, I wonder.
I'll particularly check on the sleep part of it.
I would like a stable mood, but don't want to sleep my days away.
tks Phillipa, cf
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 16:51:57
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » Phillipa, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 16:30:03
I forgot to say he only Rx'd l50mg at bedtime. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by S. Bartel on March 9, 2005, at 23:31:10
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly » corafree, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 16:51:57
You may do better on sleep and anxiety after you have been off the effexor awhile. I was awake for days and my anxiety level went through the roof when I was going through withdrawls. Now I only take elavil to help me sleep and try to keep a regular sleep schedule. I exercise and eat healthy, staying off caffeine, sugar, and fats. Those things can all cause anxiety. I feel better than I have for years. I hope things get a lot better for you soon.
God Bless you. Sammi
Posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 23:50:06
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly, CF, posted by S. Bartel on March 9, 2005, at 23:31:10
Sammi - When went from Eff-XR to Elavil, did you take any mood stabilizer or benzo? I thought of Elavil as an alternative.
The docs I saw @ hospital were feeling that I didn't need an AD at all; needed mood stabilization. One called what happened to me 'mood dysphoria.'
I look forward to sleeping better.
Still on 37.5 Eff-XR for a few days.
Having no real uncomfortable side effects; I hypothesize that may be because I started the mood stabilizers and valium prior to titration off Eff-XR.
Anyway, I feel good tonight. I am certainly thankful. God must be all around me. I have been praying for a time to come when I could stop Eff-XR.
I've enough damage to my emotions and body. The controversy over Eff-XR prompted my to pray for a way to let it go. Taking it had begun to bother me very much, and don't need anymore stress.
I think my prayers were heard. I feel like I may be moving forward finally. cf
Posted by S. Bartel on March 10, 2005, at 2:23:01
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Not Very Slowly, CF » S. Bartel, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 23:50:06
I very slowly went off effexor. It took about 3 months and I still had withdrawls, but not as severe as some. It helped that I changed my way of eating and excercise before I went off. I finally feel normal again. Thank God.
Sammi
Posted by not2late4u on March 10, 2005, at 2:37:14
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Not Very Slowly, CF » S. Bartel, posted by corafree on March 9, 2005, at 23:50:06
HI CF, glad I decided to read the post instead of deleting this time. Wow, sounds like you had quite a time. I understand what you mean about being hospitalized, I had a tough time when I was admitted several years ago. Its a long story. I can tell you that I no longer feel like theres a huge magnet holding me to my bed and keeping me from getting up. I feel more energenic and laughing more heartily. I am back down to 1 Klonopin at night and am supplementing with some herbs/vitamins that my new pdoc has given me, he's so good. I actually feel a change in my moods and my husband and mom has noticed, in just a few days of having taken them and lowering the klonopin. If you have a chance, if you havent already please visit: intouch.org, alot of topics I really think you will get comfort from. Yes, I agree, God is with you and has heard your prayers. Keep being a wonderful advocate for yourself with those doctors, Im proud of you for that! Cant comment on the other drugs you mentioned, since I have no personal experience with them. God bless you, Renee
Posted by corafree on March 10, 2005, at 9:19:34
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Not Very Slowly, CF » corafree, posted by not2late4u on March 10, 2005, at 2:37:14
Hi Renee.
I jotted down website.
Yes, I've rec'd a 'miracle of sort' from God, I believe.
The adjusting to all new meds has frightened me this a.m. and I posted on psycho-babble. I maybe already said I feel somewhat of a 'zombie.'
I wouldn't be so frightened if I had a IRL person or persons available to help me get out and about to necessary appts.
My post is Seroquel-Trileptal-Valium Combo.
Good to hear from you, and also Sammi (did I get back to you?) ... cf
Posted by S. Bartel on March 10, 2005, at 22:31:16
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Not Very Slowly, CF, posted by corafree on March 10, 2005, at 9:19:34
Yes you did.
Thanks, Sammi
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2005, at 9:05:57
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Germaine on March 6, 2005, at 20:05:26
Hi.
> So tomorrow, I will try 75mg and then take it every other day.
I think it is important to take Effexor every day in order to discontinue it with the least amount of withdrawal syndrome.
I advocate taking progressively smaller dosages three times a day.
You might be able to gain some added insight into drug discontinuation on the Withdrawal board. I do not think it is necessary to suffer.
- Scott
Posted by JaneB on March 11, 2005, at 12:00:06
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly, CF, posted by S. Bartel on March 9, 2005, at 23:31:10
Now you take Elavil? What dose for sleep? Or does it also help anxiety/depression? I want to be like you and feel better than I have for years. You have inspired me. Blessings. Jane
> You may do better on sleep and anxiety after you have been off the effexor awhile. I was awake for days and my anxiety level went through the roof when I was going through withdrawls. Now I only take elavil to help me sleep and try to keep a regular sleep schedule. I exercise and eat healthy, staying off caffeine, sugar, and fats. Those things can all cause anxiety. I feel better than I have for years. I hope things get a lot better for you soon.
> God Bless you. Sammi
Posted by JaneB on March 11, 2005, at 12:04:37
In reply to Re: Decreasing Effexor - Very Slowly, CF, posted by S. Bartel on March 9, 2005, at 23:31:10
I meant to ask if you originally took Elavil with Effexor for sleep or if you switched to Elavil after getting off Effexor. thank you.
Jane> You may do better on sleep and anxiety after you have been off the effexor awhile. I was awake for days and my anxiety level went through the roof when I was going through withdrawls. Now I only take elavil to help me sleep and try to keep a regular sleep schedule. I exercise and eat healthy, staying off caffeine, sugar, and fats. Those things can all cause anxiety. I feel better than I have for years. I hope things get a lot better for you soon.
> God Bless you. Sammi
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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