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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 16:55:57
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » medhed, posted by Impermanence on February 7, 2005, at 15:16:52
A great book full of info is "Opium for the Masses" by Jim Hogshire. A great how to, who, and why book, you will not need any more reading on the subject. Jim, who wrote the book got into tons of trouble in the US for writing this book and is now in hiding.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 17:15:28
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » paulbwell, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 16:41:24
I haven't been prescribed Desoxyn for a long time. A previous poster says they've changed some so I would be irresponsible to comment on dosages. I found after many years of stimulant use for ADD that Dexidrine works well, but the mix in Adderall was the smoothest and most helpful to me. Desoxyn was not very good for MY ADD but everybody's different, and I seem to be very different when it comes to ups and downs... stims mellow me and the downers activate me.
Good luck getting your doc to prescribe Desoxyn, which is Methamphetamine, all the irresponsible abuse has once again drawn negative attention to a good drug. The Drug enforcers are afraid we might get high... now we wouldn't want that.
Posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » tygereyes, posted by medhed on February 6, 2005, at 13:36:02
I don't think that drug addiction is a disease, either. And I believe that some people can use in moderation; I just know from experience that I can't.
All I was saying was that if you are using these recreational drugs, psychiatric medication WILL NOT work and you might as well stop wasting your money.
And by the way, the OxyContin overdose occurred because I was using it intravenously. I was shooting it.
Thanks for berating me, though. Really.
> If you decide to use drugs again I hope you will do some research first and try to control yourself. To OD on Oxycontin you either had no idea what you were doing or were in a self destruct abuse mode. I consider abuse or addiction to be a moral or behavioral choice of the abuser. NOT A DISEASE. Dealt with cognitively, it can be controlled by choice, therefore total abstainence is not necessary.
> Thank you for your opinion.
Posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 17:34:25
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » paulbwell, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 16:41:24
> what is a standard dose of desoxyn? if i take 50-60mg a day of adderall, what is the equivalence in desoxyn? i'd like to try it, but i think my pdoc probably hasn't heard of it or is probably scared of it. also, she wouldn't want to give me a humongous dose of it. i hear desoxyn comes only in 5mg pills now?
Hi Care,
"I would like to try it"--you and many others
"I think my Psydoc is probably scared of it"--Ya think?-prescribing this last choice Med pratically sends red flags up at the FDA.
A highish, Standard Rx, of Desoxyn is 20-25mgs day, althought some Narcoleptics took 2-3 15mg SR tabs for years.
80mgs-which my friend takes, (he's 61,had Narcolepsy since 1957)is the highest 'legally' prescribed dose I have ever read of.
His monthly medication bill is huge.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:20:45
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
I'm sorry, I thought I was berated.
Good Luck in your recovery.
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
In reply to CAREBEAR04, posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 17:34:25
He can always make his own...
Desoxyn is cheap at my pharmacy.
Where are you?
Posted by paulbwell on February 7, 2005, at 19:27:01
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » paulbwell, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
> He can always make his own...
>
> Desoxyn is cheap at my pharmacy.
> Where are you?
Hi Ya Med,This gentleman is not the sort of chap to "make his own" Methylamphetamine, for his long standing medical condition.
He told me last year he pays $2-3US for each of his 16 daily 5mg Desoxyn,
He used to take 5 15mg SR Graduamets, all in the morning--which cost 5c ech in 1957, when he started it, then rose to $6 each by 1999 (when they were discontinued).I'v heard FINALLY, since its intro onto the market (1944) that there is a generic-as you say, so maybe he will be able to cut his huge med bill.
after 45+ years of daily Pharmaceutical methylamphetamine use, he sleeps constantly when off it.
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:39:11
In reply to Re: MEDHED? » CareBear04, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 17:15:28
thanks medhed. speaking of the drug enforcement agenca people, if they have any idea what they're doing, they should have my drs under close surveillance. i've been on almost every controlled substance in the book, and not only that, the scripts have come at most two weeks apart. i could be bankrolling an education or something. hahaha
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:42:32
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » paulbwell, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 18:27:39
umm... you're gonna tell me how to synthesize meth? seriously, i would WELCOME it!
i'm in the pacific northwest. where are you? if you want to send me a how-do guide, i'm receptive. i'm pretty good at chem, even biochem.
Posted by jerrympls on February 7, 2005, at 22:57:27
In reply to OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by medhed on February 5, 2005, at 10:08:08
I am currently being treated with opiates for my treatment resistant depression. I came out of the closet to my doctor about how opiates have helped my depression in the past and after showing him some research he agreed to an opiate trial.
I've been on Oxycontin 10mg for a month now. It's been wonderful - the most stable and close to "normal" that I have been in years. It's not a miracle cure - but it's better than nothing.
We are going to try a month on hydrocodone to compare the two. I'm so very fortunate to have a doctor willing to try opiates. Yes, I am cautious of tolerance and dependance. However, I do not get any sort of "high" from these meds nor do I "hunger" for them. I'm already dependent on the other depression meds I'm taking - so how can being dependent on an opiate be any different? That's how I look at it anyway.
Tomorrow I start hydrocodone 5mg 4x daily. We found a preparation without acetaminophen called HYCODAN. Too bad there isn't a long acting form of hydrocodone.
At any rate, there are doctors out there who know the benefits of the use of opiates for treatment resistant depression and who will use them. Unfortunately they are few and far between. My adivce is to seek out a psychiatrist at a teaching hospital at a large research university.
Good luck...
Jerry
Posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 23:46:19
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION? » medhed, posted by jerrympls on February 7, 2005, at 22:57:27
Yes, I heard about a study where 20mg. of morphine was given just once a week for treatment of depression, I'm not sure of the details.
I like Hycodan, there is a Hycodan syrup for coughs... Hycodan makes your skin numb.
I don't have any problem getting opiates on my own without a doctor. I'm just fine not having a narcophobic doctor looking over my shoulder. I find doctors to be difficult, ecspecially about controlled substances.And I don't need anymore names on my list...
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 8, 2005, at 2:00:49
In reply to Re: CAREBEAR04 » medhed, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:42:32
> umm... you're gonna tell me how to synthesize meth? seriously, i would WELCOME it!
Please don't ask, or explain, how to produce medication yourself.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by lars1 on February 8, 2005, at 6:27:30
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION?, posted by tygereyes on February 7, 2005, at 17:26:17
> All I was saying was that if you are using these recreational drugs, psychiatric medication WILL NOT work
Not only that, but in some cases there is the potential for toxic and dangerous interactions (serotonin syndrome among other things), particularly with the heavy-duty meds often used for treatment-resistant depression.
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 9:53:05
In reply to Re: OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION??? » ed_uk, posted by medhed on February 7, 2005, at 13:22:18
Hi Medhed!!
>I think the equivalent in the UK is Mandrax but I'm not sure....
Mandrax hasn't been marketed in the UK for a LONG time! Mandrax contained methaqualone and diphenhydramine. A medication containing the same two ingredients was available in Switzerland until recently, I'm not sure whether it's still available. The brand name was Toquilone compositum.
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 13:13:42
In reply to Re: Methaqualone » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 9:53:05
Right, Quaalude did not contain Diphenhydromine and probally a higher dose of methaqualone than Mandrax. Ludes were a very large white tablet,
2 brands, one Lemmon 714, the other Rorer 714. They are bootlegged to this day in Mexico to look like the original discontinued brand, bootlegs contain Diazepam and Phenobarbital and are very disappointing.
Posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 13:18:48
In reply to Re: Methaqualone » ed_uk, posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 13:13:42
Hi!
Benzos are pretty boring!
Do you like hydrocodone? I've never tried it but I suspect that people tend to overate it when they compare it with other opioids. It's received a lot of media attention.
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 13:59:07
In reply to Re: Methaqualone » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 13:18:48
The only reason Hydros are popular is because of scheduling they are easier to get than anything stronger like Oxycodone. They are definetly weaker than Oxy, and the APAP makes them risky to take at higher doses. The strongest would be Norco @ 10/325, then Vicodan 7.5/500, and Loritab 5/500, all are available as generic Hydrocodone, the 'best' generics made by Watson. Also I've heard of custom compounding @ 15/125 which is legal, but do you trust the company compounding for you, I've heard alot of complaints. Hycodan is pure Hydrocodone. If I was in the UK I would stick to Dihydrocodiene as far as easy to get. Hydrocodone is easily obtained online in the US, anything stronger cannot be obtained legally over the internet.
Hope I covered it all.
Posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 14:12:11
In reply to Re: Methaqualone, posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 13:59:07
Hi medhed,
The only opioid that I've ever taken is codeine. I took it when I injured my back. At prescribed doses it wasn't effective at all so I had to increase the dose.
Hydrocodone isn't used in the UK at all. Codeine is used a lot and dihydrocodeine is also popular.
>Hycodan is pure Hydrocodone
As far as I know, it also contains a low dose of homatropine.
Ed.
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 15:30:55
In reply to Re: opioids » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 14:12:11
I had no idea of Homatropine, isn't that used in an eyedrop preparation for dialating pupils for eye surgery.
I've had Hycodan tablets before and a syrup for cough that seemed very strong... that syrup was great... next time I get a cough I'll have to remember.Is dihydrocodiene OTC in the UK? Is it called Contugesic? Are codiene preparations OTC in the UK? I have had Contugesic, Perduretas, and Codeisan Mailed to me from the UK and it all seemed very legal.
Posted by jerrympls on February 8, 2005, at 18:11:10
In reply to Re: opioids » medhed, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 14:12:11
> Hi medhed,
>
> The only opioid that I've ever taken is codeine. I took it when I injured my back. At prescribed doses it wasn't effective at all so I had to increase the dose.
>
> Hydrocodone isn't used in the UK at all. Codeine is used a lot and dihydrocodeine is also popular.
>
> >Hycodan is pure Hydrocodone
>
> As far as I know, it also contains a low dose of homatropine.
>
> Ed.Ed - you are correct. HYCODAN is 5mg hydrocodone and 1.5mg of homatropine which is an anti-cholinergic (sub-therapeutic dose). I think the only reason for the homatropine is to help protect from an overdose.
Jerry
Posted by jerrympls on February 8, 2005, at 18:12:59
In reply to Re: opioids, posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 15:30:55
> I had no idea of Homatropine, isn't that used in an eyedrop preparation for dialating pupils for eye surgery.
> I've had Hycodan tablets before and a syrup for cough that seemed very strong... that syrup was great... next time I get a cough I'll have to remember.
>
> Is dihydrocodiene OTC in the UK? Is it called Contugesic? Are codiene preparations OTC in the UK? I have had Contugesic, Perduretas, and Codeisan Mailed to me from the UK and it all seemed very legal.
>Homatropine is a relative to atropine and is usually in an eye-drop preparation. The only reason homatropine is added to the hydrocodone is to help "protect" (somehow?) against an overdose.
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 18:32:42
In reply to Re: opioids » medhed, posted by jerrympls on February 8, 2005, at 18:12:59
Hycodan tablets were weak and gave me headaches.
The syrup was something else, I drank half the pint bottle at the time and my skin was numb, definetly reminded me of Dilaudid at that dose.
Posted by Impermanence on February 8, 2005, at 18:41:18
In reply to Re: opioids, posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 15:30:55
Dihydrocodeine is a schedule 2, class A drug in the U.K. and is only available by prescription, however it's easily obtained via the internet without prescription. And yes Contugesic is dihydrocodeine.
Codeine is available as an O.T.C. med only when mixed with paracetamol, asprin or ibuprofen and the maximum amount is 12.5mgs per tablet, but codeine is easily separated from the drugs using a water filter. I guess the ideology behind this is it's better to let a human being die from liver failure than let them get a feeling they might enjoy!!!
Posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 19:24:15
In reply to Re: opioids » medhed, posted by Impermanence on February 8, 2005, at 18:41:18
Codiene= Tylenol 3 30mg, Tylenol 4 40mg, Emperim 4 40mg.
Hydrocodone= Loritab 5/500, Vicodin 7.5/500, Norco 10/325
Oxycodone= Percodan 5,7.5/500 aspirin, Percocet 5,7.5/500 tylenol, Oxycontin 10-80mg., Tylox 10/500
Morphine= MS Contin 30,60,100mg.
Hydromorphone= Dilaudid 1,2,3,4mg and HP injectable
Fenanyl= Duragesic 50,75,100 mcg.hr. transdermal system
Some US brand names for pain killers.
I'm sure I must have missed some...
like to add to the list?
Posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 21:06:42
In reply to OPIATES FOR DEPRESSION???, posted by medhed on February 8, 2005, at 19:24:15
hi all-- been following this thread with great interest. i've been on percocet since october. i should have a higher tolerance, but i think the max i can handle is 2 7.5/500s a day without getting loopy. i've been having an occasional drink or two lately; i've been more social. i don't mix them for a high. i've heard very scary things about mixing opiates with only downers including alcohol. can anyone give me a guess as to the max number of pills or drinks i can take safely? i also take 4mg of xanax a day and 2mg at night. thanks!
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