![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 737 to 761 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by katia on October 13, 2004, at 18:43:50
In reply to Re: Paxil use for Bipolar II question?? » katia, posted by theo on October 13, 2004, at 18:04:59
> At such a low dose of Paxil, I would question the Seroquel or the Trileptal doses as a possibility.
Trileptal and Seroquel are at LOW doses too. This maybe feels like that Seroton. syndrome? Some people are sensitive to SSRIs.
Posted by theo on October 14, 2004, at 7:20:22
In reply to Re: Paxil use for Bipolar II question?? » theo, posted by katia on October 13, 2004, at 18:43:50
> > At such a low dose of Paxil, I would question the Seroquel or the Trileptal doses as a possibility.
>
>
> Trileptal and Seroquel are at LOW doses too. This maybe feels like that Seroton. syndrome? Some people are sensitive to SSRIs.
>I have never tried Seroquel or Trileptal, but have tried several mood stabilizers and they caused me to bump into things and feel a little off balance. Paxil never did that to me.
Posted by Ritch on October 14, 2004, at 10:18:52
In reply to Paxil use for Bipolar II question??, posted by katia on October 13, 2004, at 15:21:18
> I'm on Paxil (have been for five months) at a low 12.5mg. I'm also on about 12mg of Seroquel for sleep and 450mg of Trileptal. I've been dxed as BPII over a year ago.
>
> I'm feeling quite confused, bump into things, have bad spatial judgment. I had a terrible serotonin syndrome (withdrawal) with Effexor and Zoloft. With effexor before I even tapered down to quit. I feel moody and irritable and anxious at times. Paxil or mood disorder?
>
> I've read that being on long term AD use for BPs is not good. Is five months or longer considered long term? Not sure that the Paxil is doing anything good for me. I still have dips in moods. good days and bad. As if I'm not on any medication at all.
>
> Just wondering what the opinion/consensus is out there on PB board about AD use for BPs (used in conjunction with a mood stablizer of course)? Is the Paxil causing these symptoms that mimic my mood disorder? Hoping to hear back from multiple people.
> Thanks-
> KatiaAny of your three meds could be causing confusion and cognitive problems. If you're taking the Seroquel for sleep-- see if the "confusion" and "spatial judgement" gets a lot better in the evenings before you go take the Seroquel. I was taking 25mg of Seroquel for sleep a few years ago and I was pretty much a zombie until 12 hrs post-dosing, and then wouldn't feel fairly clear headed until the last few hours before bedtime. Seroquel has a short half-life. Trileptal can cause cognitive fuzziness, too, but I found it settled my temper down really well. Paxil (SSRI) causing irritability and moodiness? It has in my experience. I've got to limit serotonergics to the tiniest dose that they provide some anxiety *relief* without causing agitation and cycling. You might ask your pdoc about some liquid Paxil and try tapering down slowly and see if things improve....
Posted by katia on October 14, 2004, at 11:34:28
In reply to Re: Paxil use for Bipolar II question?? » katia, posted by Ritch on October 14, 2004, at 10:18:52
Hi Theo and Ritch,
I'm at such a small dose (12.5)of Paxil as it is.
Today I'm going to get my electrolytes tested and see if it's the Trileptal causing that rare kidney thing s/e.It's at night too - my clusiness and spaciness. I work in a restaurant and get really dizzy and nauseous sometimes.
thanks-
Katia
Posted by katia on October 14, 2004, at 17:42:23
In reply to Re: Paxil use for Bipolar II question?? » katia, posted by theo on October 14, 2004, at 7:20:22
KAty or anyone,
Have you developed this on Trileptal? And what were your symptoms? What did you do? Did you get your electrolytes tested?
Katia
Posted by fluffy on October 15, 2004, at 10:23:09
In reply to Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by katia on October 14, 2004, at 17:42:23
Hey Katia--
Yes I did develop this within about a month of starting Trileptal. I basically felt like I had the flu--a bit weak, dizzy, nauseous. I KNEW something was wrong very soon. I got my blood tested, and what do you know--my sodium was WAY low. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get it tested--just a simple blood draw is all that's needed. Talk to your doctor about it.
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad, Katia. I hope you get to the bottom of this and start feeling better soon.
Katy
Posted by fluffy on October 15, 2004, at 10:56:13
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by fluffy on October 15, 2004, at 10:23:09
Katia--
If you do indeed have hyponatremia, you could very easily switch to good ol' tegretol. You'd have to watch your blood cell counts, I think. But it wouldn't cause sodium loss, which can't be corrected with a dose change. With the meds that you're on, tegretol wouldn't compete with them too badly. (i think that tegretol with depakote is tricky--but it, too can be done).
Just a thought in case you are worried about having to find a new med.
take care,
Katy
Posted by Barbaracat on October 15, 2004, at 12:20:54
In reply to Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by katia on October 14, 2004, at 17:42:23
Sorry you're feeling bad, Katia. You might want to get a blood sugar test while you're at it. I've been reading lately where some of these meds are suspected to affect hormones, including insulin uptake, and this can cause symptoms ranging from hypoglycemic to diabetic. I'm going to invest in a glucose meter because it give a better overall view throughout the day vs. a fasting glucose test, although the test is a good place to start. - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 15, 2004, at 13:34:10
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 15, 2004, at 12:20:54
HI Barb and Katy,
Barb, I would do that too (the blood sugar test), but I don't have insurance and every test is paid out of pocket unfortunately. If it's not too expensive I could do it.
Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm not feeling toooo bad; just a bit off - hazy and so forth (what I previously mentioned). And periodic flu-like symptoms without the flu as Katy, you mentioned.
Do either of you ever question your dx? I just wonder sometimes...there seem to be so many variables to it. I realize it appears that I have a mood disorder and I sure have felt it, but what if it's something else? like a real hypersensitivity and this is the symptoms of that from living in this strange world? or PMS?
It's so hard for me to understand it all - STILL. Like for instance, I was "PMSing" for a good week - feeling down and pessimisitc, then a slow rise out of that for a few days, then I felt a different energy take over - hyperness. My friend commented that my volume was turned up. This was for only two days and then haziness and high irritiability. Now...just drug induced slight haze.
What is that about?? Is that rapid cycling or something else?
Is there such thing as ultrarapid cycling? I've heard somewhere that it isn't really indications of BP, but of something else.Anyway..it could be that I'm on meds and feel under control some so that it's easy to question the dx? just get me off them and I'd probably learn, yet again, that I am BP?
Katy, I think I will switch to low doses of Tegretol if I have hypotrem. Not sure what I'm going to do with Paxil. My pdoc is not much help. And I don't have money to see him either. But there really is no point because I feel I know more than him anyway (about myself and meds). I'm always the one suggesting what next. I haven't seen him since April. But we've talked very briefly a few times since on the phone.
How're you two?
Katia> Sorry you're feeling bad, Katia. You might want to get a blood sugar test while you're at it. I've been reading lately where some of these meds are suspected to affect hormones, including insulin uptake, and this can cause symptoms ranging from hypoglycemic to diabetic. I'm going to invest in a glucose meter because it give a better overall view throughout the day vs. a fasting glucose test, although the test is a good place to start. - Barbara
Posted by Barbaracat on October 15, 2004, at 17:27:05
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by katia on October 15, 2004, at 13:34:10
> Barb, I would do that too (the blood sugar test), but I don't have insurance and every test is paid out of pocket unfortunately. If it's not too expensive I could do it.**I did a search and found out that there are lawsuits against Geodon (another antipsychotic) for inducing diabetes by elevating blood sugars. A warning on Seroquel says: "There have been reports of elevated blood sugar and diabetes associated with SEROQUEL and other drugs in its class."
But that's high blood sugar, or diabetes. A fasting glucose (around $70) will pick this up but if it's hypoglycemia or insulin receptor resistance, there's no easy way to test for it. If you're seeing someone, mention to them that you're on an antipsychotic and are concerned about blood sugar. Your symptoms may fit this dx.
I don't think the fasting glucose test is over $60. But it's not exact and doesn't measure what the cells are doing. You had PCOS, didn't you? Here's something about PCOS, bipolar and blood sugar:
http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2001/ph152.htm
> And periodic flu-like symptoms without the flu as Katy, you mentioned.
***Periodic flu-like symptoms (muscle aches, tiredness, dizzyness, depression, anxiety) is how I describe my fibromyalgia. But I'm wondering about my stinkin' blood sugar too.
>
> Do either of you ever question your dx?**About 5 times a day.
>>I just wonder sometimes...there seem to be so many variables to it. I realize it appears that I have a mood disorder and I sure have felt it, but what if it's something else?
**I'm sure it's something else and it has a toxic source, even if the toxin is just good ol' stress. It's difficult when you don't have insurance to get all the zillions of tests to rule things out. And even then, there's no guarantee that the doc will know how to read them or what to do.
I'm beginning to think there's a good reason why we both have this jones for swampjuice. It's pure sugar. We crave it, feel great, and then crash til' next time. I don't know what this means, but there has to be a connection since 'labile' blood sugar is known to create absolute havoc in the brain. - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 16, 2004, at 13:52:34
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 15, 2004, at 17:27:05
hey Barb,
This is why I wonder if meds are doing me any good. I feel my dx is not totally solid and real and here I am ingesting all these meds that can cause MORE problems. Sometimes I feel silly for taking them all. Like "what am I doing?!". I'm fine!!I know you went through a similar period prior to going back on Li. Maybe I need to see for myself how I do sans meds. I've been on medication in one form or another since July 2002. Mind you, the first year was just ADs.
I may possibly be under the illusion "well I feel fine! I don't need meds" and it's BECAUSE I'm on meds that I feel fine...the catch 22 cycle we all go through? But on the reverse, I don't feel totally fine and I wonder how much of that has to do with side effects...
Again, I'll ask you...are you coming to town for thanksgiving? If so, did you still want to meet up? I understand if you don't and want to keep our friendship contained to this realm.
take care,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on October 16, 2004, at 17:45:03
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » Barbaracat, posted by katia on October 16, 2004, at 13:52:34
Katia--
I hope this doesn't sound too motherly...but I would say it isn't wise to go without one's meds.
1) Do you really want to go through the hell you went through before them?
2) Once you go off meds, they may not work as well when you decide to go back on them. For me, Risperdal didn't have the same effect after having been off it, then returning to it again.
What specifically do you feel doesn't fit you in terms of your diagnosis? Rapid cycling is VERY REAL. I have it and feel its effects every day. It is entirely possible to have switched from depression one week to hypomania the next.
I've been on meds for 4 years now, and it has been very rough at times. But I know that i would have been dead and gone by now if I didn't even have the hope of having SOME relief from my symptoms.
I'm happy to say that I'm doing so much better on Seroquel. Right now I'm on .25mg Risperdal, 25mg Seroquel and 750mg Depakote. It feels right. I've had a very stable month, and I only seem to be improving.
It sucks when you feel the effects of your disorder even though you are taking medication. My uneducated guess is that you might feel worse without the meds, though.
And even though you may feel your doctor doesn't know anything--HE DOES. Often times, doctors will give you the reigns in your treatment to give you more control--it's a courtesy. (It used to drive me crazy that my doctor did this to me. But I know that if he didn't, I'd feel even more put out--that he is controlling my fate even though he has no idea how i feel, you know?) He would tell you if he didn't feel your choice was appropriate (if indeed he is a good doctor). Will you be seeing him anytime soon?
I'm not sure what is making you feel yucky..if it's a physical problem, a problem with meds, or a problem with your mood disorder. But I really hope you start feeling better soon. And I hope you can get to the bottom of it without too much trouble.
Take lots of care--
Katy
Posted by Barbaracat on October 16, 2004, at 19:34:29
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » Barbaracat, posted by katia on October 16, 2004, at 13:52:34
> I know you went through a similar period prior to going back on Li. Maybe I need to see for myself how I do sans meds.**No doubt the meds are taking a toll. They always do and some of us are more sensitive. It doesn't sound like you're on a huge mix but maybe your body reached its limit. Then again, maybe you do have a flu, or have something else transitory going on. It's hard to separate out what's really going on and no way to know for sure. I personally feel that layering one med on top of the other is asking for trouble. There are too many unknowns.
I'm on a bare minimum right now and want to keep it that way. Whatever it takes. I get white-knuckle times and deal with it on an as-needed basis. A few days zoning out on benzos usualy does the trick because so much of my stuff is anxiety triggered. Each time I come out on the other side of the nasty stuff, I learn to trust my own process a little more. Yeah, an as-needed basis is the best description.
I just started on a wee dose of nortriptyline because I was getting some panic creeping in, probably because I've been so amped up working overtime to give the four letter creep the boot. But you know, Katia, even though I'm not feeling 100% and never expect to, I do feel like my body has less crud to deal with and I pass through the rough times easier and faster.
Even so, you know how hard it is to stop any med, especially when you're feeling unsteady to begin with. But yes, maybe it is time to taper off one thing at a time, keep a supply of downers available, and have patience knowing it will be a wild ride until you're stable.
A good plan would be to get a support base ready, start following a regular schedule and habits, provide easy access to meals and healthy stuff - clear the decks and get your ducks in order. We're talkin' cutting way back on the swampjuice here. There's no getting around that one. Poo!
>
> Again, I'll ask you...are you coming to town for thanksgiving? If so, did you still want to meet up?**I sent a post a week or so ago saying yes, I am coming your way for Thanksgiving and yes, absolutely I'd love to see you. Wouldn't miss it! We'll exchange emails and all that real soon. - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 1:37:20
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 16, 2004, at 19:34:29
Hey Barb,
That's odd. I didn't get that post about yer comin' my way....
I'll respond to both your and Katy's post tomorrow. I'm beat.
Katia
Posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:14:46
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by fluffy on October 16, 2004, at 17:45:03
> Katia--
>
> I hope this doesn't sound too motherly...but I would say it isn't wise to go without one's meds.***Hi Katy,
Thanks for your concern. It doesn't sound too motherly. I probably need to be kept in check like this. So I've thought about your questions and want to answer. It's helpful for me to get clear.> 1) Do you really want to go through the hell you went through before them?
**NO! I guess b/c I have awareness about my moods now and my "condition", I can monitor it much better if I start to get worse.
I also am in a way different place in my life that is supporting health and balance. I don't have a big desire to drink. And after one or two, I don't even want anymore. I've turned a curve and feel quite empowered and feel like I'm stepping into who I can be. I've noticed since being on meds (that work) I revert back to the place I was when (pre-meds) I was somewhat normal. meaning, I go through cycles EVERY month of ups and downs all having to do with my period. So therefore, meds aren't touching that. they've helped me climb out of a serious depression, but in the first year they made me crazy (ADs) and cycle like I've never cycled before (so made me crazier). I think time also pulled me out of that depression, not just meds. I think it was good to get on Mood stabilizers for awhile.
But I also feel I'm in a different (I know this is going to sound WAYYYY California!), in a different place astrologically. Remember that work I did with that psychic a year ago? Well, she was right when she outlined what would be happening to me in the next year and what had been happening to me all my life. And it was all based on my astrological chart. I don't even really follow astrology, but I know she knew what she was talking about. She knew too much specifics. And what she said was that all my life has been unbalanced and balance is on the way and power. I can't tell you how much better I feel then I did a year ago (meds aside). I've done so much already too.
>
> 2) Once you go off meds, they may not work as well when you decide to go back on them. For me, Risperdal didn't have the same effect after having been off it, then returning to it again.**Very true. but I've not really found anything that works that well anyway. Trileptal has been the least offensive, but I'm still waiting to hear back from my good ole vacationing constantly pdoc. He still hasn't faxed over the request to get my blood drawn. I've been waiting a week.
And what I'm wanting to do is just reduce my amounts (being that I'm not hyponatremic). 1/2 everything I'm taking and see what happens. See if I feel less tired and feel more cognitively alert and creative.
> What specifically do you feel doesn't fit you in terms of your diagnosis? Rapid cycling is VERY REAL. I have it and feel its effects every day. It is entirely possible to have switched from depression one week to hypomania the next.
**Well, it's hard to say b/c I rapid cycled like a maniac since BEING on meds. Is this b/c of them? probably paritally so. probably also be/c I know now what rapid cycling is and I can identify in myself. Whereas before, I was just lost in the rollercoaster of emotion, so I wasn't able to see clearly and in hindsight cannot remember.
I suppose I'm having a hard time b/c it's all just speculation. There is no real test that says "yes, you are BP rapid cycler". It's speculation from a pdoc (in the medical paradigm community) who can only see this through one lens (his medical paradigm mindset). It's not everything to me. I believe that through that lens that I probably am BP. But human beings are way more complicated than a set of behavioral keys to point to a BP label. A part of me feels silly for believing at all that I'm BP. That is the part I'm not sure about. I almost feel like it's part of another phase I'm going through in my own definition of reality; but it won't stay real as such forever. I'll realize that I was fooling myself and taking the easy way out hiding behind a label and meds.
On the other hand, a part of me realizes that this illness/disorder is REAL and to have empathy for that too. And it takes a lot to get help and take meds and it has nothing to do with hiding at all.
So I guess you got me thinking and having to really define it and it's hard Katy. I'm not 100% sure what I'm feeling. I do know that I want less meds in my system. I'll reduce them as soon as I see what's going on with my blood work.
> I've been on meds for 4 years now, and it has been very rough at times. But I know that i would have been dead and gone by now if I didn't even have the hope of having SOME relief from my symptoms.
>
> I'm happy to say that I'm doing so much better on Seroquel. Right now I'm on .25mg Risperdal, 25mg Seroquel and 750mg Depakote. It feels right. I've had a very stable month, and I only seem to be improving.**GREAT! good news Katy. Seroquel has helped me tremendously with sleep. After you take it, do you get this relaxed feeling in your chest? Maybe that's my Trileptal...
>
> It sucks when you feel the effects of your disorder even though you are taking medication. My uneducated guess is that you might feel worse without the meds, though.
>
> And even though you may feel your doctor doesn't know anything--HE DOES. Often times, doctors will give you the reigns in your treatment to give you more control--it's a courtesy. (It used to drive me crazy that my doctor did this to me. But I know that if he didn't, I'd feel even more put out--that he is controlling my fate even though he has no idea how i feel, you know?) He would tell you if he didn't feel your choice was appropriate (if indeed he is a good doctor). Will you be seeing him anytime soon?**I also feel disheartened every time I go to see him. $115 for 25 minutes which I don't have. And I normally suggest what to take next. I never feel like I got my money's worth - EVER. I know he knows more than I give him credit for, but so what? I don't really hear much out of him and it's too expensive for me to do every month. I trust myself more than him and I'm free!
If I had all the money in the world than I would see him every month and take it with a grain of salt - food for thought. He is a nice man and gives me free samples every month, but the bottom line is....money and lack of...and the fact that I'm not completely sold on the dx.
I also get support from other things now. Like my dog's spirit (Rock - who died in July). He is giving me so much strength and clarity. I'm learning to listen to myself on an intuitive level and make better decisions/choices to enhance my health, not destruct it.
Thanks so much for your concern Katy.
Katia
Posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:19:43
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 16, 2004, at 19:34:29
>
> > I know you went through a similar period prior to going back on Li. Maybe I need to see for myself how I do sans meds.
>
> **No doubt the meds are taking a toll. They always do and some of us are more sensitive. It doesn't sound like you're on a huge mix but maybe your body reached its limit. Then again, maybe you do have a flu, or have something else transitory going on. It's hard to separate out what's really going on and no way to know for sure. I personally feel that layering one med on top of the other is asking for trouble. There are too many unknowns.**That's interesting that you say flu. Because for the past two months, I've been complaining about the fact that I was on the verge of the flu or a cold. But it never materializes. Now after reading Katy's post, I realize it could be that hyponatremia symptoms. Feel free to read that post I sent to KAty. I meant it for everyone. That explains a lot for me.
>
> I'm on a bare minimum right now and want to keep it that way. Whatever it takes. I get white-knuckle times and deal with it on an as-needed basis. A few days zoning out on benzos usualy does the trick because so much of my stuff is anxiety triggered. Each time I come out on the other side of the nasty stuff, I learn to trust my own process a little more. Yeah, an as-needed basis is the best description.
>
> I just started on a wee dose of nortriptyline because I was getting some panic creeping in, probably because I've been so amped up working overtime to give the four letter creep the boot. But you know, Katia, even though I'm not feeling 100% and never expect to, I do feel like my body has less crud to deal with and I pass through the rough times easier and faster.**Yes, I feel like the less, the better too. What is nort.? Is that an AD?
> Even so, you know how hard it is to stop any med, especially when you're feeling unsteady to begin with. But yes, maybe it is time to taper off one thing at a time, keep a supply of downers available, and have patience knowing it will be a wild ride until you're stable.
>
> A good plan would be to get a support base ready, start following a regular schedule and habits, provide easy access to meals and healthy stuff - clear the decks and get your ducks in order. We're talkin' cutting way back on the swampjuice here. There's no getting around that one. Poo!
> >
> > Again, I'll ask you...are you coming to town for thanksgiving? If so, did you still want to meet up?
>
> **I sent a post a week or so ago saying yes, I am coming your way for Thanksgiving and yes, absolutely I'd love to see you. Wouldn't miss it! We'll exchange emails and all that real soon. - Barbara**How do you want to exchange emails? Do you want to give yours? I don't for public display here. I can always create one on hotmail for this purpose.
Katia
Posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal, posted by fluffy on October 16, 2004, at 17:45:03
Hi All,
ok ok...something IS going on. Maybe I AM bipolar!Katy, do you ultrarapid cycle where you can go zippo hypo in one day and then slow down the following day? Anyone else?
Something was buzzing around inside of me yesterday. I'm a bit embarrassed at how outrageous I acted last night at work. But then again...people were laughing WITH me. I know my energy was contagious. It was an energy that took over - giddy, fun, energizing, wanting to be with people on top of the world feeling? And this was before - much before any alcohol. That's the other thing with this is my relationship to alcohol changes and becomes abusive. and I smoke cigarettes. A fellow worker commented on my behavior..."Katia's not addicted to alcohol or cigs, (because I normally don't have much, if any) she's addicted to naughtiness and mischief. She gets into that mood and then she drinks and smokes".
I also notice that when I ovulate, which I am now, I go a little crazy. I notice men more and want to go out and about and interact, flirt and so forth. Like my personal boundaries expand A LOT. and almost drop away. IS THIS HYPOMANIA?
Anyone out there who is dxed as bipolar, please tell me what your personal experience is with the feeling of hypomania...not the needing less sleep etc...the textbook stuff, but real true descriptions of what happens when it takes over. As my pdoc said, when you're in it, everything in you moves with it, so it's hard to see it for yourself.
The energy I felt last night/yesterday is almost too much for me to take. Like I'm spilling over with energy. But now, I slept six hours (that's not a lot for me) and I feel slower today.
I don't understand my mood swings! And I'm on medication...
Katia
trileptal 450mg
seroquel 12.5mg
Paxil 12.5mg
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 0:05:38
In reply to Re: Hyponatremia with Trileptal » Barbaracat, posted by katia on October 17, 2004, at 15:19:43
> **Yes, I feel like the less, the better too. What is nort.? Is that an AD?
**Nortriptyline is one of the older tricyclic ADs. It's the best AD I've been on in terms of effectiveness. It pulled me out of a suicidal depression after my Mom died and I really liked the way I felt on it. I worry obsessively about everything when I'm going through my sh*t but on nortrip I have more of a que sera sera attitude without the SSRI flatline.
But alas, I felt like I was turning into a prune on it. Couldn't get enough water, my mouth was smacking when I talked, more constipation. That was at 75mg. This time I'm trying to stick with 25mg, along with 900mg St. John's Wort and 600mg lithium.
I was starting to feel panic attacks coming on recently, probably because I've been so amped up working on election stuff. I've learned to respect those panic attacks as being the herald of a really really bad one about to hit and I DO NOT want to ever go there again.
Maybe it's just placebo, but after a few days on nortrip I'm leveled out and no pasty mouth yet. Upping the lithium might seem obvious but I don't want more lithium side effects.
Katia, in your post to Katy you said you were going to halve your meds. Just my opinion, but that might be going too fast, especially with multiple meds. If it were me, I'd go real slow, like down by 1/4 every 3-4 weeks. It supposedly takes 3 weeks for the receptors to adjust. Anything faster than that puts a huge stress on your system.
The amino acid L-Taurine acts as a mood stabilizer at 1,000mg morning and night. Also magnesium, phosphatidyl serine or choline, and fish oil. All the usual vitamins and all, but those ones in extra amounts have helped me alot. www.iherb.com has good prices.
About your pdoc. Whew, I'd be a tad frustrated too at those prices, although them's the typical prices. Have you looked into a University hospital clinic? There's got to be another option than paying full price for someone you've been disappointed with for a while. But perhaps wait until you're stable on less meds. The last thing you need is to break in a new pdoc when you're adjusting med doses.
>
> **How do you want to exchange emails? Do you want to give yours? I don't for public display here. I can always create one on hotmail for this purpose.**Sure, that sounds good. I've been running around so much lately that I don't get to my email like I used to. But it's been good to push past my stuff for something as crucial as this election. - Barbara
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 1:47:23
In reply to Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with?, posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
Katia,
Yep, sounds like hypomania. I like what your pdoc said about it. OK, here goes. I have more energy, my thoughts come quicker, I make mental connections more easily. I start thinking of all sorts of neat ideas and things to do. I want to create, create, create. And damn, I'm good too. Colors are brighter, my artistic eye is more keen. I can multitask, keep many balls in the air. I'm brave and brazen too. I'll say audacious things that are funny and clever. I'm full of risque double entendres.Now this is all during the early stages, mind you. Things definitely get more disordered later on. But in hypomania I want to connect with people, party, dance. I feel like there's a swirl of magnetic energy around me that affects anyone who comes into it's orbit. It's festive, quicksilver, witty, effervescent. I've gotten groups of total strangers to sing chrismas carols on busses, do a conga line in a restaurant. I've been the first to jump off cliffs into the water. When I lived in lightning country, I used to walk for hours in lightning storms, feeling totally invincible.
I can become plugged into other realms. There's no doubt that a veil parts and my psychic attunement is intensified. Something opens psychically and this is not just bipolar delusion.
I think all this is actually a more exaggerated version of the 'real me', my healthy self who I like alot, the way I was when I was younger when it didn't morph into mania and then depression and the resulting timidity I've developed. I think hypomania amplifies gifts that are already there and perhaps fuels them with a load of adrenaline that takes away fear.
Moving on, if the voltage gets too high things can become very discordant and spooky. I get irritable and instead of sociable and gregarious I become snappish and start telling others my opinions of life, them, and everything whether they want it or not. I get sarcastic and mean. Especially if I'm drinking. Yes, the partying spirit of hypomania inevitably leads to alcohol, like gasoline on sparks (I also smoke when I drink).
Those brilliant ideas start crowding each other out and I start misplacing things and becoming frazzled. My thoughts get loud and chattering with mutliple streams happening at once. I can't keep one train of thought and can't complete anything and start to hate myself. My breathing becomes disordered and anxiety and insomnia get worse. It's like things start fracturing and spinning out of control and I become afraid. My hyper imagination sees terrible things happening to everything I love. It's so hard physically and a crash has to come. Hopefully it's only depression. I can live with depression where I sleep alot and feel like a grey blob. It's worse when my brain burns out but my body keeps revving. Mixed states hell. The trick is to ride the hypomania and then come back down to earth even though it's sooooooo much fun and we want to keep the buzz going.
There's a website that is interesting. www.waveriders.com. I got the book. She's bipolar and has learned to live with it without medication. She says that bipolars are tremendously gifted people and have to really get this and see it as a gift instead of a dx, and to learn to bring ourselves down out of the hypomanic stage before it builds to a crash. I've been using her suggesions and they're good.
So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 19, 2004, at 13:10:52
In reply to Re: Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 1:47:23
>
> So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - BarbaraHi Barbara,
Well is it too premature? Was that hypomania for a day? The way you decribe YOUR experience, it does sound like it. But your experience sounds like it's over time. I went "hypo" in one day. and back again. And is that all it was? I'm on meds too. So that shouldn't really happen. Unless the Paxil is makingme CRAZY! Maybe it does have somethign to with ovulation.I'm sure you know the feeling...I went back into work yesterday "there's the troublemaker" (in a joking way)from one customer who came back in and another man showed up to just to say hi to me! I want to crawl under a rock. How could I expose myself like that is the feeling....not that I did anything but just became outward and flirtatious.
anyway, gotta eat something.
talk to you later.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 20:22:03
In reply to Hypomania for a day, posted by katia on October 19, 2004, at 13:10:52
Katia,
So, what did you do? Can-can on the tables? I don't know, of course, but I do know that this country is incredibly repressed and uptight. It's a shame we feel guilty when we're inspired to add a little spice to things. Maybe you were just in a wild and crazy mood for a day. I don't know, it seems anything that isn't a prim buttoned-down responsible little droid state gets labeled with a dx. We end up feeling bad about ourselves and this perpetuates the shame and stress.Whatever you do, don't you tuck your tail between your legs 'cause people pick up on that. Rocky wants you to be alpha and proud of it instead of cowering - no matter what!! You probably brought a laugh and some good cheer to folks who might have needed it. Be a Waverider and learn to flow with your unique colorful multifaceted personality.
That being said, Paxil at 12.5 doesn't sound like all that much, but my experience with it was not good at all. While I was on it I was cycling more rapidly than ever before. My pdoc kept bumpbing it up and only when we discontinued it did I start feeling better. I do OK on SSRIs for a bit and then things either poop or get weird.
Like I mentioned, I'm having a very good response to Nortriptyline at a teeny dose, so if you need an AD and Paxil isn't doing it for you, a good old-fashioned tricyclic may be in order. Plus it's cheap as dirt.
Katia, if you're skating on the edge of hypomania, not doing anything particularly stupid, and not falling into mania or depression afterwards, then what the heck, enjoy it and do your part to perk life up a bit for others. Call it animal magnetism, charisma, adventurousness, high energy, sexy. Some people would give anything to be that way, even for a day. - Lots o' Luv, Barbara
> >
> > So, my friend, maybe a bit premature to cut back on those meds, eh? - Barbara
>
> Hi Barbara,
> Well is it too premature? Was that hypomania for a day? The way you decribe YOUR experience, it does sound like it. But your experience sounds like it's over time. I went "hypo" in one day. and back again. And is that all it was? I'm on meds too. So that shouldn't really happen. Unless the Paxil is makingme CRAZY! Maybe it does have somethign to with ovulation.
>
> I'm sure you know the feeling...I went back into work yesterday "there's the troublemaker" (in a joking way)from one customer who came back in and another man showed up to just to say hi to me! I want to crawl under a rock. How could I expose myself like that is the feeling....not that I did anything but just became outward and flirtatious.
> anyway, gotta eat something.
> talk to you later.
> Katia
Posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 2:04:47
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 19, 2004, at 20:22:03
> Katia,
> So, what did you do? Can-can on the tables? I don't know, of course, but I do know that this country is incredibly repressed and uptight. It's a shame we feel guilty when we're inspired to add a little spice to things. Maybe you were just in a wild and crazy mood for a day. I don't know, it seems anything that isn't a prim buttoned-down responsible little droid state gets labeled with a dx.Hi B-Cat,
YES. that is my point. maybe I was just in a wild and crazy mood for the day. Do we have to label it with a dx?....
But then again, I know in my heart of hearts, that energy well and it's almost uncontrollable. And I LOVE IT! and am frightened of it. Nothing so much..that I did. it was just my energy -- you know that doing the conga and xmas carols...I love it!Who cares? I"m only human and am acting as such. Thanks for being the only one to reply to my post!! I wanted to hear other's experiences too with hypomania...maybe no one else is reading this.
Maybe I've scared them all away with my psychic talk...
Yes, Paxil...I think I'm getting weird! You know that feeling? You have to make yourself small and contain yourself - otherwise you end up charming the pants off of everyone and then can't live up to the image you created. This incredible dynamic in me of light and dark - polar opposites. Boils down to, I'm a sensitive soul and am affected easier than most and my moods reflect that as a symptom? Maybe I should try a tricyclic. When and why did you decide to start back again with it?
Good your spending so much time fighting "W". I'm getting pretty riled up over it too. It's easy and tolerable where I live because we ain't pro "W" here.
BTW, I am sponsoring a kitty at Best Friends. What a great place!!!
talk to you soon.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on October 20, 2004, at 12:20:00
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day, posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 2:04:47
Katia,
Oh good, you found Best Friends! I love their approach, focus on the heart-warming stories of the goodness of these little creatures instead of the horror stories. When I get a mailing from Best Friends, I look forward to opening it knowing I'm not going to be hit in the gut with pictures and stories of trajedy. They always get my money because it feels good to support their work.Best Friends is doing so much good and passing on this positive activism concept. I frequently ask myself the question 'well, do you want to handle this situation the Best Friends way or the PETA way?' Same intention, different approach. Who are you sponsoring?
About tricyclics: I first went on good old Elavil in my 20's, before there were SSRIs. It made me feel zonked. Tried a few others with the same effect. They lifted my depression but I hated the constant dopeyness. I don't know why nortriptyline is different but I get no cognitive side effects at all, just the dry mouth and constipation. But so far the lowest dose 25mg along with St. John's and lithium has elevated things nicely, although I'm still dealing with panic attacks now and then.
Panic disorder is the bane of my life. I'll go through a cycle of feeling suffocated, heart pounding, impending doom and insanity. It's hard to hear my own voice talking myself down. Usually at night when I'm trying to sleep. So, I'll just get up, read, take a benzo and be very good to myself until it passes, knowing that it eventually will. I used to doubt that I'd ever come out of it, 'this time I won't survive it' which escalates the adrenaline. I don't know if it's tied in to my 'bipolar dx' or a separate issue. BTW, tricyclics do not seem to aggravate hypomania the way SSRIs do.
I know about that wild energy. It pushes you, compells you to do something to express it, to show off, to entertain, to 'fix things', like a divine calling to inspire people to get off their duffs and be alive. It feels very alive and buzzing. So many gifted people, artists, actors, authors, etc., are bipolar and when you're hot, you're hot. And when you're not, you're not. Like you said, one day the energy is simply not there anymore and all the projects, all the promises made, all the good intentions, fall by the wayside uncompleted. You feel like a shell of this persona that people people have come to expect.
That's where my shame comes in, feeling like a flake afterwards because I can't follow through with commitments I made to others while in this expansive state. I can't call up the funnyness, the creativity, the motivation, and I feel drab.
What are the people like you spend most of your time with, like your friends, or at the restaurant? Is it an environment that supports the quiet introspective and sensitive Katia as well? Do you feel like you can be yourself, whoever that might be at the time? I personally think that waitressing is a great job for bipolars. You can be so many things. Just as long as you have the option to go and hide on the off no-energy days.
I think that alot of my conga, christmas carol days were a healthy but overboard response to working in a repressive high-tech corporate environment. It was like this rebellious adolescent took over and delighted in the shock value. Of course, it was hard to maintain the required professional stuffy image once you've pulled the CEO up to belly dance with you at a corporate function. Glad I'm out of that environment. It was sucking my soul dry.
You know, Katia, I definitely think that things that go haywire have a biophysical component that can be helped with meds. But it's not the whole story. There are so many aspects to us that need to be given voice. Who has the time and money to go through intense psychotherapy? That's where my spiritual practices and journalling help. The deeper I go, the more I reach that wall of pain and terror that must be dealt with one way or the other. I believe it's that bound up energy block that generates the imbalanced mood states, especially my panic disorder.
Sometimes when I'm feeling brave and centered, I go into that scary place in my meditations, try to just be with it and help it to feel safe and not so constricted. It's the best practice I know of but I haven't done it in a while. - Barbara
Posted by robz on October 20, 2004, at 13:16:42
In reply to Hypomania and ovulation anyone? Experiences with?, posted by katia on October 18, 2004, at 15:39:38
Hey! That same exact experience happened to me yesterday. I had so much energy and I was like talking to everyone really fast. I went to the gym and just ran and ran and ran, I was so hyper....It was crazy. I was wondering the same thing...AM I BIPOLAR. I am also getting my period and now today I feel kinda down and am having anxiety. I am confused as to what is going on. I am also on Meds...EffexorXR 37.5 MG, and Neurontin 600Mg.
You know when you are ovulating your body is wanting to reproduce. So you checkin out other men is just a part of your biological make up to make babies. Dont even worry about that. It just means you are young and healthy girl!!! Have fun with it...
Posted by katia on October 20, 2004, at 15:21:07
In reply to Re: Hypomania for a day » katia, posted by Barbaracat on October 20, 2004, at 12:20:00
> Katia,
> Oh good, you found Best Friends! I love their approach, focus on the heart-warming stories of the goodness of these little creatures instead of the horror stories. When I get a mailing from Best Friends, I look forward to opening it knowing I'm not going to be hit in the gut with pictures and stories of trajedy. They always get my money because it feels good to support their work.
>
> Best Friends is doing so much good and passing on this positive activism concept. I frequently ask myself the question 'well, do you want to handle this situation the Best Friends way or the PETA way?' Same intention, different approach. Who are you sponsoring?
**Hey Barb,
a cat named "Nob". i just sent in some minimal amt. of money. I do what I can...like the little grey kitty who hangs out here. It's starting to get cold and rainy out, so I need to do something. Neuter, shots, bed? He sprays if I let him inside. Maybe an outdoor kitty bed with a heating blanket (sheltered from the rain)?> About tricyclics: I first went on good old Elavil in my 20's, before there were SSRIs. It made me feel zonked. Tried a few others with the same effect. They lifted my depression but I hated the constant dopeyness. I don't know why nortriptyline is different but I get no cognitive side effects at all, just the dry mouth and constipation. But so far the lowest dose 25mg along with St. John's and lithium has elevated things nicely, although I'm still dealing with panic attacks now and then.
**Yes, panic attacks are the worst! very scary indeed. That's why I went on Paxil months ago b/c they were starting to creep in. They happen for me when there is that hysterical place of no sleep and stress. I'm going to get my blood work done tomorrow (electrolytes and blood sugar). And then we'll see if I should stay on all my meds or not. I doubt I'd try anything new like Nort. tricyclics may not work for me like you. We seem to not have similar experiences with meds.
> Panic disorder is the bane of my life. I'll go through a cycle of feeling suffocated, heart pounding, impending doom and insanity. It's hard to hear my own voice talking myself down. Usually at night when I'm trying to sleep. So, I'll just get up, read, take a benzo and be very good to myself until it passes, knowing that it eventually will. I used to doubt that I'd ever come out of it, 'this time I won't survive it' which escalates the adrenaline. I don't know if it's tied in to my 'bipolar dx' or a separate issue. BTW, tricyclics do not seem to aggravate hypomania the way SSRIs do.**Good for you for taking care of yourself during these times. It's a scary thing. I think my first panic attack happened for me FULL ON at the age of 15. I didn't know what was happening to me and had to tell my parents. They hadn't a clue what was wrong so my Mom "prayed" and put a statue of Mary near my bed!! Oh well. They offered all they could and knew, bless their souls. The second one happened right after that weeks later and I kept it to myself. It was very frightening..I think it was triggered by pot. I was "experimenting" and it was a Sunday night after a weekend of partying - tired/stressed. Marijuana is something I've never gotten into. i think it's be/c it makes me go into a panic attack rather than relax.
>
> I know about that wild energy. It pushes you, compells you to do something to express it, to show off, to entertain, to 'fix things', like a divine calling to inspire people to get off their duffs and be alive. It feels very alive and buzzing. So many gifted people, artists, actors, authors, etc., are bipolar and when you're hot, you're hot. And when you're not, you're not. Like you said, one day the energy is simply not there anymore and all the projects, all the promises made, all the good intentions, fall by the wayside uncompleted. You feel like a shell of this persona that people people have come to expect.**Yes, i know this well. The first time I experienced anything this full on was when I was 17 - a senior in high school. It was around Feb. and i convinced my mother that I was going on a school ski trip with another school forty miles away (it was the cool town). Somehow I managed it and she dropped me off at the bus and I got on and made so many friends right away - fit right in. The group leader was a fun man probably in his 30s or 40s and we hit it off (nothing sexual). I had a bad fake I.D. and I convinced him and others we had to go to the ski lodge bar (in Vermont) and live it up. Nothing was going to stop me from going to that bar - I got in with my bad fake ID charming the bouncer and then when we got there, it was dead. People were just sitting around...I immediately jumped on stage and grabbed the mike and dancing convincing everyone in the room to get up and party and dance. By the end of it, people were putting dollar bills in my pockets and the whole room was rocking. That leader said he's never seen anything like it...
In retrospect, IF i am bipolar, that was definitely my first hypomanic/manic experience and it lasted for six months. And then I crashed into a bad and serious depression around Sept/Oct on into the winter until Spring hit. But I never could shake that depression and I never had such a pure euphoric experience that lasted so long with mania/hypo? again after my senior year in high school and that summer. Probably b/c I started collecting too much baggage/dark stuff that I never processed..> That's where my shame comes in, feeling like a flake afterwards because I can't follow through with commitments I made to others while in this expansive state. I can't call up the funnyness, the creativity, the motivation, and I feel drab.
**that is a tough one. I almost want to hide my giddy charming self until someone knows me well and it's a bonus rather than what makes them like me or fall in love with me and then is disappointed afterwards. It fools people and they are disillusioned and I feel shame. I've learned the hard way about this. I literally and metaphorically do not let my hair down right away anymore. (I do have great hair by the way...:-) I'm more reserved.> What are the people like you spend most of your time with, like your friends, or at the restaurant? Is it an environment that supports the quiet introspective and sensitive Katia as well? Do you feel like you can be yourself, whoever that might be at the time? I personally think that waitressing is a great job for bipolars. You can be so many things. Just as long as you have the option to go and hide on the off no-energy days.
**Apart from a few people at work, it's toxic and unhealthy and it sucks my soul dry. I don't like it.
My friends are great and supportive of me and have seen all sides.take care!
Katia
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