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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bridgey1128 on September 28, 2004, at 23:39:36
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on September 28, 2004, at 14:23:04
Don't you wish you could just have a full body transplant sometimes!!! Maybe they'll come up with that someday! :)
Posted by headachequeen on September 29, 2004, at 9:36:49
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on September 28, 2004, at 23:39:36
> Don't you wish you could just have a full body transplant sometimes!!! Maybe they'll come up with that someday! :)
I read about expiriments involving transplanting the head of one monkey onto the head of another monkey... and it worked. mentioned it to my orthopaedist as he was trying to put my s/c joint and my neck and part of my spine back into working order again a while back, the result of my mis-spent youth (boating injuries and all those hours on the rifle range and I would not take back a moment of them)... said I wanted it done...
he started to laugh and told me I would look silly with a monkey's head...
My GP said that with my immune system, rather the lack thereof, I would get such a raging infection that it would never work... sigh...
<g>
but it seems there is a future for it...
now to find someone who wants to trade a slim and healthy body for mine...
or for that matter who wants to take on my mal-functioning brain...
hmmm decisions all the time....
LOL
kat
Posted by headachequeen on September 29, 2004, at 9:39:00
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by stressed on September 28, 2004, at 19:08:39
> She has a binge eating problem, and so far she says she's not bulemic. The doc, and I have read (found it on the net) that topamax is being used for treating binge eating. She will not take a high dose, I won't let that happen. Thanks for anything you want to add.
Stressed, the higher doses often help and are not always that frightful... I am moving up under the guidance of this new neurologist... he is the one who did the testing of it for weight loss actually...
admittedly it is not for weight loss but I will take the side benefits...
and so far there are no side effects...
but it is slow and careful and that is the key to it...
kat
Posted by Paul_d_234 on September 29, 2004, at 19:51:56
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by stressed on September 28, 2004, at 7:54:47
Is your daughter seeing a psych doc or a family doc? How old is she?Suggest you and daughter look into other meds - like Welbutrin or Cymbalta - that don't cause weight gain and treat depression before trying Topamax.
Its easier to manage side effects and understand risks if you are one med rather than two. Nothing wrong with two meds but that should be done after you rule out an agent that treats the primary concern.
> She is taking it because she has been on lexapro and gained much weight. Her doc. put her on it to control moods and also to help her binge eating disorder. It is getting out of control. Yesterday she said she felt like she had the flu, and felt really hungry, light headed a bit. That's not good. Thanks for your info, you are helping me more than you know.
Posted by stressed on September 29, 2004, at 20:30:28
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by Paul_d_234 on September 29, 2004, at 19:51:56
Paul_D: My daughter is seeing a psych, and a family doc. They are father and daughter, so they interact on a more than regular basis. She is taking Welbutrin 300mg, now. Lexapro made her gain weight. She is 16 yrs. old. and my husband side of the family is REALLY heavy, and BED seems to be handed down to her from both sides......what a mess. I hope to get this taken care of before she goes to college. So far, she says the urge to binge has gone away at 50mg. per day. We will see....thanks very much for responding.
Posted by headachequeen on September 29, 2004, at 20:30:28
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by Paul_d_234 on September 29, 2004, at 19:51:56
>
> Is your daughter seeing a psych doc or a family doc? How old is she?
>
> Suggest you and daughter look into other meds - like Welbutrin or Cymbalta - that don't cause weight gain and treat depression before trying Topamax.
>
I hate to burst anyone's bubble but one of the first warnings the pharmacist gave me was that welbutrin could cause weight gain... and it did and it can also cause seizures and as I am already having seizure problems it was not exactly the answer to my problem... but it is not something that I would recommend anyone try...
if there is already a problem then why take something that can cause another very serious problem????
to me that is playing with fire....
kat
Posted by headachequeen on September 29, 2004, at 20:40:00
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by stressed on September 29, 2004, at 20:30:28
> Paul_D: My daughter is seeing a psych, and a family doc. They are father and daughter, so they interact on a more than regular basis.
This would seem to be a really great team effort...
and more helpful than the usual system...
you are most fortunate...
as is your daughter...
One thing that concerns me though is that in the research I have been doing, Lexapro is not advised for people who are on anti-seizure medications...
and Topomax is basically an anti-seizure med...
just a thought...
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on September 30, 2004, at 15:56:21
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed » stressed, posted by headachequeen on September 29, 2004, at 20:40:00
I took Welbutrin and it made me bonkers. I didn't have weight gain with it though. I had an EXTREMELY dry mouth though. If you are bipolar you shouldn't be taking Welbutrin though. People who are bipolar usually react strangely to antidepressants. I stopped taking the Lexapro before I could tell if it even worked because it made me gain 5lbs in 3 days. It's an antipsychotic. Different class of drugs. Is your daughter been diagnosed as depressed? Or bipolar? That makes a difference
Posted by headachequeen on September 30, 2004, at 16:13:58
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on September 30, 2004, at 15:56:21
> I took Welbutrin and it made me bonkers. I didn't have weight gain with it though. I had an EXTREMELY dry mouth though. If you are bipolar you shouldn't be taking Welbutrin though. People who are bipolar usually react strangely to antidepressants. I stopped taking the Lexapro before I could tell if it even worked because it made me gain 5lbs in 3 days. It's an antipsychotic. Different class of drugs. Is your daughter been diagnosed as depressed? Or bipolar? That makes a difference
Welbutrin is one of those meds that seems to be prescribed for so many things...
I know one social worker who is bipolar and suicidal and, yes, he works with children in dire need, arrgghhh, and refuses to get help in case it interferes with his keeping his job...
he gets welbutrin to help him keep his job...
it apparently helps him with his symptoms although it is not helping his smoking I must add....I was on Welbutrin because my doctor thought that the highs I reach when my creative side achieves success followed by the extreme lows that occur when nothing happens in my creative life had to be bi-polar symptoms... he never seemed to realise that these 'symptoms' were not controlling me but that I was controlling them, driving them as it were and not them driving me,
the stuff did not make me bonkers as you describe it, Bridgey, it flattened my personality completely... and it caused me to gain weight along with the Zyprexa... what a disaster they were... and the dry mouth...
I am diabetic and thirsty all the time as it is...
the welbutrin made life unbearable....awful stuff...
and the little happy face on the front of the tablet... insult to injury!!!!
kat
Posted by stressed on September 30, 2004, at 18:32:47
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on September 30, 2004, at 15:56:21
Bridgey: My daughter is depressed or was. She says she is not now. When she took Welbutrin before, she lost weight right away. It made her really hot and sweaty, so the doc switched her to Lexapro....bad move. Anyway, she is off it now. I just want her off of everything. Thanks.
Posted by bridgey1128 on September 30, 2004, at 20:45:58
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by stressed on September 30, 2004, at 18:32:47
Yeah I wish I didn't have to take anything. Unfortunately, being bipolar, when I don't take my meds, my family doesn't like me very much! hehe Hopefully with both her Dr's working together they will find something that works for her. But if she ever feels uncomfortable about taking something I hope she won't hesitate to tell her Dr's so. I think so many times Dr's expect us to just shut up and take the dang pills. I know weight gain is so frustrating. They give us something for depression and then it makes us fat which makes us depressed which makes us have to keep taking medicine for depression which makes us fatter which makes us more depressed than ever....you see where I am going with this. It's a catch 22 a lot of times. And I was wrong about the Lexapro.. I took that earlier. It is an antipsychotic I do believe but I didn't have weight gain with it. It was the Zyprexa. My mistake. Zyprexa is also an antipsychotic. IT is the one that made me pack on the pounds. After you take so many different freaking drugs you forget which is which!!! Good luck to your daughter. I hope she finds the right combination of meds and therapy. 16 is a hard age. God Bless
Posted by dazedandconfused on October 1, 2004, at 16:46:40
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on September 30, 2004, at 20:45:58
Just a quick note,
Lexapro is an antidepressant. An SSRI in the same class as Prozac, Zoloft, etc. It is not an antipsychotic.dazed
Posted by stressed on October 1, 2004, at 17:08:39
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by dazedandconfused on October 1, 2004, at 16:46:40
Everyone, when does this stuff start kicking in?
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 1, 2004, at 17:38:21
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by dazedandconfused on October 1, 2004, at 16:46:40
Gotcha about Lexapro. I couldn't remember which it was. I knew I had taken it and it didn't help. I have taken so MANY that haven't helped they seen to kinda all blend together after awhile. One I wouldn't ever EVER recommend to anyone, if even for the horrid HORRID withdrawl symptoms is Effexor. MAN OH MAN! That was some HORRIBLE stuff. I had taken that for a couple of months with bascially no results (like the others except for a very strange side effect of stratispheric libido) when I started getting a headache. Well, it lasted and lasted and lasted and lasted. It about drove me crazy so I decided this was NOT for me. I also had what is called "brain shivers". This feels like someone suddenly grabbing your head and shaking it for all it's worth and your eyeballs spinning around in your head at any given moment. Not painful but very dizzying and frightning when driving and everything goes crazy on you. I VERY slowly tried to go off the Effexor and it wouldn't let me! I went down like a quarter of a capsule. I had to open them up and divy up the little balls of medicine inside, it was very ridiculous. When that about drove me to insanity I started having panic attacks because it was really upsetting me that a medicine had this much control over my body and wouldn't let go! I had some Ativan and I took ONE and the brain shivers and headaches stopped. I don't know why but it allowed me to break the drug withdrawl. After this horrible ordeal is when I went to my Dr and said SOMETHING ELSE IS WRONG! I AM NOT JUST DEPRESSED!..this is when we discovered I might be bipolar and was tested. BINGO! And to answer your question Stressed in a round about way, it takes a while to "work" so to speak. It depends on what you are taking Topamax for and how much. I can tell that I am going to need to go up again because I am starting to get irritable again..a sign of my mania. Aggressive irritability and excessive talkativeness. Hopefully your daughter will be able to tell you when she is starting to feel better and I hope she is also in therapy. I don't think that a teenager or any child should be on medication without some sort of therapy, whether it be psychology or behavior therapy dealing with ADHD. I hope your daughter finds some light at the end of her tunnel soon. Med hopping is no fun. Been there done that.
Posted by headachequeen on October 1, 2004, at 18:04:48
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on October 1, 2004, at 17:38:21
Effexor. MAN OH MAN! That was some HORRIBLE stuff.
Effexor is indeed horrible... I was on it in conjunction with Zyprexa and with I forget what to help me sleep... to stop the brain from spinning all night as I was simply unable to stop thinking so could not sleep, part of my problem that they kept thinking was bipolar... as I said I am not bipolar I simply get on these creative binges and highs and cannot stop, the ideas come and they do not stop and I am afraid to let them stop...
at any rate, with the Effexor and the Zyprexa I was a zombie... not only were there no creative highs, there were no thoughts, no ideas... nothing... I was the waking dead... totally flat-lined...
no emotions, nothing... my face was flat, my eyes which are usually alive and flashing with life and fire were dull and flat... my husband was not happy, said he would rather cope with the all night waking person than the dead person...my psychologist who was trying to help me deal with childhood trauma that had emerged with the breakdown that followed the death of my dog... don't even smile... I had a complete emotional crash following the death of my favourite dog, my soul mate and total partner and ended up in hospital and so much emerged as a result...
said one day that he was having a hard time getting past the training I had received as a child, our family does not display emotion and he said that I had learned my lessons well...
it occurred to me as I left the session that the drugs were not helping... so I quit that day...
just went cold turkey... no one told me that it was not a good idea or that it was not really possible to do this. I went home and threw out the three bottles of pills and had no problems at all...
when the psychiatrist and my regular doctor found out they were upset about it and kept offering to put me in hospital or to prescribe stuff to help me cope with the reaction and so on, but I was doing fine and figured that any other meds would mean an adjustment time and it might not go so well...
I was smirking about it to the psychologist one day and he really told me off, told me how lucky I had been and how foolish... and then I read Bridgey's account of coming off Effexor... and had a time of retroactive panic...
no one will ever get me to take any of that stuff again... EVER....
as for when the Topomax will begin to work, it takes different time periods with different people, the trick is to hang in there and let it get up to speed...
the metabolism, the present weight, so many factors play a role...
I mentioned earlier that I saw weight loss begin almost immediately, three pounds the first week, but it took several months to lose a significant amount and it has slowed down now...
I have not lost any weight for several weeks...
I keep hoping.. but then again I have not gained any so that is good...The binging is going to come under control as the topomax begins to affect the part of the mind that controls that tendency...
and I forget which part of the brain does that...
it may be in the frontal lobe as that is where my epileptic problems occur and the topomax seems to help that too ever so much...
when I have a problem remembering or I am especially clumsy or have an outburst of foot in mouth disease I always title it one of my F-7 Moments...
works for me and people are more sympathetic as a rule... they are never quite sure what it is, but if it has a letter and a number it must be serious and they need to be considerate <g>
other than husbands of course....give it time and encourage her, she will get there and it will help...
meanwhile, encourage her to drink lots of water, it is in style and it helps... and if she nibbles on cashews or pecans, an ounce or two when she feels the urge to binge it helps and is healthy and cuts her appetite urges too...kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 1, 2004, at 18:48:20
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 1, 2004, at 18:04:48
I have found that when I am having withdrawl symptoms with the Topamax..I hallucinate. Anyone else have this? Not meaning to scare anyone off. This was an accidental thing. What happened was I missed a dose that I thought I had taken and then it was too late in the day to take it. So I skipped it...well..maybe I'll just risk it next time. Was REALLY tired that evening to I laid down for a nap. My husband woke me up to say goodnight to my daughter and I kept saying something about the walls were green and a picture was a different shape. Now, to me I SAW these things with my own eyes and when I think back I remember them clear as day as he says I was seeing them. So I know I was awake. I also didn't know who my daughter was. He kept saying Say goodnight to Hannah...and I said..Who? Who?...I couldn't grasp who she was for some reason right then and then I noticed my room was green and the picture on the wall was now a melted trapazoid shape. This has happened several times, usually when I need to go UP on my meds. It's like I have needed to go up for so long my body is going through withdrawl. If I ever have to come off this drug....whoo wee! Maybe I should just get a bottle of booze or something and watch the show! JUST KIDDING!!!!
Posted by headachequeen on October 1, 2004, at 20:41:59
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by bridgey1128 on October 1, 2004, at 18:48:20
> I have found that when I am having withdrawl symptoms with the Topamax..I hallucinate.
A while ago I had to quit taking Topomax and Tegritol both for some tests they wanted to do..
there were no withdrawal symptoms other than me muttering and growling because the seizures started in right away of course, two and three a night, every night until I started back on Teg and Topomax and worked back up to a controlling dose...
hallucinate? no but I did daydream about strangling the person whose idea it was to do the tests without the anti-seizure meds... does that count???
kat
Posted by Aussie on October 1, 2004, at 23:34:06
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on October 1, 2004, at 20:41:59
Zyprexa is probably the drug that made you feel like a zombie.
Effexor doesn't do that. I understand that getting off Effexor is 'not a good thing'and I don't look forward to that time. However the drug is a wonder drug!
I am so happy to be on it.As for Topomax, it made me much more anxious -like extremely, which is unusual the doctor said. Apparently if you've had a childhood trauma then Topomax is not for you. I took it for a month increasing slowly and I lost weight almost immediately.
I should reiterate that as many have said before me - everyone reacts differently.
Has anyone had problems weaning off serzone?
Stressed - Your daughter is lucky to have such a caring Mother :)
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 2, 2004, at 8:39:36
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on October 1, 2004, at 20:41:59
Aussie..Did I mention I was a redhead? We have weird side effects...that's probably the reason. I have always reacted weirdly and differently to drugs and always had the most odd side effects. That is probably why NO WEIGHT LOSS with the Topomax. Because that would be a DESIRED one, you see.....ah the joys of being a redhead...*sigh*
Posted by headachequeen on October 2, 2004, at 9:56:47
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by Aussie on October 1, 2004, at 23:34:06
> Zyprexa is probably the drug that made you feel like a zombie.
> Effexor doesn't do that.I should have been more concise in my reply earlier... some journalist I am lol...
I was originally on Effexor and Welbutrin, then just on Effexor when they realised that seizures were a problem as I was epileptic and welbutrin causes seizures and exacerbates seizures...
with the effexor by itself I was a zombie... the zyprexa added to it made me a whole clan of zombies or whatever a group of zombies is called...
being celtic in background, I would of course be a clan <g>
and it was not pretty I am told...and you have again reminded me how fortunate I was to have such an easy time coming off the two of them...
never again....
I don't care if the sky is falling and the earth opening at my feet...
never again...
I will stick pins in my eyes first
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 2, 2004, at 10:32:22
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 2, 2004, at 9:56:47
Effexor didn't do anything for me except not work and up my libido beyond belief. I think it flipped me into a mania. Which just proves I shouldn't have been taking it to begin with. At that time I didn't know I was bipolar, which explains why I didn't know what was going on. For people who are bipolar STAY AWAY FROM EFFEXOR!!!! NOT a good drug. Actually people who are bipolar should stay away from antidepressants period. They don't work. Which isn't good because Topomax isn't good for depression, which is another catch 22. *sigh*. Problem for me now is I was doing well but now I feel like I am going back into another depression. I just have to fight them because frankly, I don't have the $ to go to a psych or a a counselor. My deductible is so high it would cause me to STAY depressed to worry about paying the freaking bill!!! So I guess I'll have to battle it yet again if it comes. Time to up the meds again I guess.....
Posted by stressed on October 2, 2004, at 11:37:34
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by Aussie on October 1, 2004, at 23:34:06
Aussie.....when you say you lost weight almost emmediatly, are you saying after a couple of weeks? I am expecting to see her lose in the second week, and that may be unreasonable. Because of her binging problem, I am not supposed to mention a diet, weight, etc. at all to her. I really can't ask her if she has lost anything. Doctors instructions, of course. Thanks for your input. All of you are helping me in getting through these tough times with her. Thank you so very much.
Posted by headachequeen on October 2, 2004, at 13:15:14
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by stressed on October 2, 2004, at 11:37:34
> Aussie.....when you say you lost weight almost emmediatly, are you saying after a couple of weeks? I am expecting to see her lose in the second week, and that may be unreasonable.
Okay, Stressed...
I am not Aussie, but I am a redhead like Bridgey, does that count :) ???
and I have all the freak and strange health things that go with being a redhead... arrghhhanyway, first, let me add a word to the advice that you have been given, when you do notice a change, please encourage her, be supportive and compliment her...
it is soooo helpful...I remember people walking on eggshells around me... I have done the anorexic trip and looked like a skeleton with flesh and done a version of the binge trip and no one would say anything if I lost weight...
they were afraid to comment in case it was because I was sick and was losing weight because of some dire symptoms or because it might embarrass me...
hey world!!! I have lost a lot of weight...
I look almost like the person I was before the wrong meds were prescribed and I started eating to combat the boredom and the unhappiness ....
it would be nice to have someone notice that I now wear clothes a few sizes smaller...other than that, I did start to lose weight right away... it was only a couple of pounds...three in the first week... not a hugely noticeable thing unless you saw the number registering on the scale...
and the binge attacks were curbed... suddenly I no longer found myself standing there with food in hand that I really didn't want but ate because it was in my hand and why waste it...
some days I was simply not hungry at all... I forced myself to eat something... yoghurt or carrot sticks...
I had a craving for protein, chicken was a favourite choice...lately I am on a more balanced diet plan of choice not of planning I must admit, but I do eat only one main meal a day with perhaps a snack in the evening of a slice of whole wheat bread and some cheese or nuts or peanut butter that sort of thing... whereas before it was all day constantly...
my office had a supply of emergency rations in case I felt myself about to die of starvation at fifteen-minute intervals...
I was not hungry, I was lonely, bored, deprived, whatever...
the topomax curbed so many wrong feelings about eating...
and it worked over a period of time... from a size 16 pair of jeans to a size eight... and from a large jacket or sweater and sometimes and XL to a small...IT WILL WORK but do not panic as that will create more stress for her and she has enough stress about her weight and her binge-eating and whatever is causing it (binge-eating and anorexia and all the eating disorders seldom just happen so my shrink keeps telling me)
Be positive and supportive... and patient...
it is VITAL...
she has been on the med for a short time...
I saw the weight loss on the scale and that helped... I saw the weight loss effectively in a month or so when I had to get a size smaller in jeans and pants and skirts...
can't remember exactly when...
I do know that by September (started in January) I was in a size ten...and she will be healthier if it does not come off in a matter of days too....
kat
Posted by stressed on October 2, 2004, at 17:28:06
In reply to RE: More info please...stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 2, 2004, at 13:15:14
Kat,
Thanks so much for the support and information. It was really uplifting and encouraging for me. How great for you to be able to lose that amount of weight. I just keep thinking "what if she is that one person that Topamax doesn't work?." I know how hard it is to lose weight. You are really helping me through this, more than you know.....really. Anyone feel free to add information anytime. Thanks
Posted by headachequeen on October 2, 2004, at 19:57:23
In reply to Thanks for the advice, posted by stressed on October 2, 2004, at 17:28:06
> Kat,
> Thanks so much for the support and information. It was really uplifting and encouraging for me. How great for you to be able to lose that amount of weight. I just keep thinking "what if she is that one person that Topamax doesn't work?." I know how hard it is to lose weight. You are really helping me through this, more than you know.....really. Anyone feel free to add information anytime. Thanks
I have been helped here by so many people and soooo sooo often... that I am happy to be able to help someone else... my chance to pay it forward...just remember to give things time and that you will not notice the change overnight...
relax and be patient...it will come...
as I think of our foster kids and our own kids, and there were more foster kids than own kids <g>, I have to say that the most important thing you can do is let her know that you love her no matter what
love is the most important tool in her arsenal... love and support as she tries to overcome this... and unconditional love is the most important thing of all...
now my bog challenge is to keep the weight off and to beat the seizures... I used to think it would be wonderful to be able to go to sleep at night and not worry about a seizure happening...
now I remember that old saw about being careful what you wish for...
suddenly the nights became totally seizure-free and days became terrifying...
so now I am happy when they happen at night...
and I look forward to seizure-free time as long as the weight stays off...
I always have these little riders that I attach to life <g>
kat
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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