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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by PoohBear on July 13, 2004, at 19:22:43
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by Atticus on July 13, 2004, at 16:55:24
I'm very glad that you were able to find a med that works. If you read back through some of the threads you may come across my story, though not nearly as dramatic as yours. I had to deal with dark thoughts and suicidal ideation, though I never followed through and I don't believe that I would have. Still, it's very unnerving to imagine what it would feel like to have a bullet go through one's head or be tempted to flip the car at speed.
Whew!
My "cocktail" is 150mg of Effexor XR for depression, 20mg of Ritalin for ADHD and 100mg of Seroquel for sleep at night.
Like you, I've decided that given my history and my family history, I most likely have a chemical imbalance that will always need some "tweaking", and like you, I think of it as no different than someone on meds for any other life-threatening illness. The difference is the fact that depression and mental illness in general is regarded by many if not most people as something spooky or that they outright deny.
Effexor DOES have MAJOR side effects and MAJOR discontinuation effects. Would I have taken it if I knew ahead of time? I honestly don't know. I do know that my quality of life was not what I wanted and that many of my friends have seen a positive change. So all in all, I believe it's worth it and I'll deal with the withdrawal if and when I need to.
Welcome back to the land of the living; I'm glad that your attempt on your life failed. You are precious and deserve to live.
Tony
Posted by esskay on July 13, 2004, at 22:51:07
In reply to Re: Going off of Effexor, posted by LynnM. on July 2, 2004, at 1:55:27
I've been off effexor for almost 3 weeks now and am feeling much better. I was on 75mg per day for over a year and stopped taking it at the 75mg dose because I lost insurance and couldn't afford the $115/month cost.
I get short with people a little bit faster but am also laughing more and enjoying myself more. I'm also getting my sex drive back. The alarming zaps have disappeared and I'm no longer continually dehydrated. My dreams have gotten better and although I'm not sleeping quite as well as I used to, I know it's a more natural sleep.
After reading some posts, it seems as if the withdrawal side effects linger for a long time. I'm feeling tiny, tiny little tings every now and again (like twice a day).
Hey: I've noticed that a lot of people are writing about effexor and substance abuse-- that was not my case, but is effexor commonly used to treat that?
esskay
> > I can't understand why you would be taking Effexor every 4 days. I think you would be prolonging your withdrawals rather than getting off of them. I've read several people's posts about it and this is the first I've heard of it.
>
> I'm trying to get OFF of Effexor. I don't want to just quit cold turkey. I'm gradually slowing down to decrease intensity of the withdrawal symptoms I'm experiencing: headache, nausea, brain zaps, sporadic itching.
>
>
Posted by LynnPerley on July 14, 2004, at 7:35:16
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by PoohBear on July 13, 2004, at 12:37:08
Effexor XR helped me get through a major depression. I was unable to take other meds due to side effects and effexor xr had some too, but I dealt with them. I was initially prescribed effexor xr by my family doctor and I only went to a psydoc after he referred me (once my dosage reached 150mg and I was still needing help). I took meds only for over a year and it was not until I got cognitive behavioral therapy in addition to the meds that my life was improved beyond just "functioning".
I would suggest that those who are considering taking effexor xr, or those who are taking it but are either not fully functional or are concerned about withdrawal, get themselves to a psychiatrist for medication administration. I think if I had been seeing a psychiatrist from the beginning I might have achieved a proper therapeutic regimen sooner.
Effexor xr did work for me. If I have another major depression and I need meds, I will go straight to a psychiatrist. If he or she recommends effexor xr I would not hesitate to take it again.
Posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 8:48:22
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Atticus, posted by PoohBear on July 13, 2004, at 19:22:43
Tony and lorily,
I really appreciate your kind words and encouragement. The chaotic day of the suicide attempt (June 2) now seems almost surreal, like something that happened in a dream or to someone else. When I catch sight of the three long scars on my left wrist and forearm in the shower, it's now difficult for me to imagine the mindset that put them there, or dialing 911 as I started to get lightheaded and faint, or the cops and paramedics showing up, etc.
Tony, you made an especially good point when you described how many people see mental illness as "scary" or something imaginary, rather than as something that has a biochemical basis. When I first started on the med merry-go-round in 1996, I realized that it was affecting my behavior at work. Since I worked at a university, I thought people there might be a little more enlightened about something like this, so I called together my staff and explained exactly what was going on. I did the same with my boss. But unfortunately, what I soon found was that EVERYTHING I did was being attributed to the illness. Everyone has a frustrating day at work once in a while, but even the mildest display of emotion on my part set gossiping tongues a-wagging. They did find it "spooky" -- even frightening on some level, although I never had any outbursts of temper or anything like that. Eventually, I felt so uncomfortable at that place that I switched jobs, and vowed never to let anyone at work know about the illness again, so that I wouldn't be viewed exclusively through that lens. It's similar, I suppose, to how a person in a wheelchair doesn't want to be seen as merely an addendum to the chair. The obvious downside to this is that I started to feel like the depression was some terrible, dark secret, and I had to wage this battle without a lot of the support that people with a non-mental illness can count on; it was just me and my pdoc. I didn't know enough to go looking for a site like this, so I started to feel incredibly isolated psychologically, and saw myself as freakish, abnormal. Post-hospitalization, I've been in an intensive outpatient treatment group, which has really helped, but that ends next Tuesday (by decree of my HMO -- it won't pay for any more sessions). This site is a really helpful place to go now that I'll be going back to just meeting with my pdoc again. I picked the name "Atticus" for this bulletin board because the character says in "To Kill a Mockingbird," "Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes." It's nice to know that there are so many people out there who have walked a mile in my shoes, and therefore they can, I think, understand this situation better than my pdoc ever really will be able to. Atticus
Posted by lorily on July 14, 2004, at 9:46:48
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 8:48:22
Atticus, Isn't it amazing how much can change in such a short time? It's sooo important to remember this and be very aware of your mental health and any changes towards "that dark place"
I don't appreciate having to keep on my toes all the time and analize "what do I feel like this?" etc, but it's necessary for me if I want to stay well.
I found this site by searching ask jeeves for effexor withdrawal. Funny how things work.
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:11:00
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by Mellissa on July 13, 2004, at 11:38:08
Yep, I think Effexor and Effexor-XR work. The bit of dullness is a tradeoff for emotional roller-coastering. I can still cry and laugh. There is just a bit of that free creative thought process dulled. I, as said before, am a poor metabolizer, so I take 75mg am and approx. 5-6 later, I take 37.5mg. I have to take something for sleep. I take trazodone 50mg. I have bad things going on in my life currently that would challenge any medication though, so my suicidal ideation is still there. I have chronic pain also. All in all, I think Effexor and Effexor-XR are probably better than SSRIs (have tried all) for me. Effexor and Effexor-XR may be a bit more 'out there', but guess you have to be willing to take the risk. The dosage and time regimen of Effexor-XR are SO IMPORTANT. The regimen can make or break this medication for you, did for me. When I waited until around 6pm to take the follow-up dose of 37.5mg, it/I was awful. The dosage and time regimen of Effexor-XR are SO IMPORTANT.
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:16:59
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Atticus, posted by PoohBear on July 13, 2004, at 19:22:43
Please see my posts regarding dosage regimen of Effexor-XR. My dosage and the time taken totally rid me of side effects!
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 12:25:56
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by LynnPerley on July 14, 2004, at 7:35:16
I cannot agree more completely.
Throughout my "journey" I have had the expertice and support of a VERY competent nurse practitioner (psychiatric) who's specialty is psych pharmacology. She has been very patient and willing to work with me. Without her, I doubt that my experience would be as positive as it has been...
Tony
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 12:35:49
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » PoohBear, posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:16:59
> Please see my posts regarding dosage regimen of Effexor-XR. My dosage and the time taken totally rid me of side effects!
Cora:
That's very interesting. I HAVE noticed that there have been some days when I've needed a 37mg or even a 75mg "boost" on my morning 150mg capsule. The reason why I stick with the 150's is simply cost.
The cost per capsule is the same whether it's 37.5, 75 or 150mg. Taking two doses of 75mg or a 75 and a 37.5 later in the day would cost twice as much. Silliy I know, but these things do have to be taken into account.
My generic Ritalin is virtually free, but the Effexor and Seroquel are about $3 a day. WOW!, am I ever glad that I have insurance...
Oh, and I might add that the Seroquel is not only for sleep but also to help counter the effects of atypical bipolar.
So there ya go, my own cocktail.
Tony
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:36:25
In reply to Re: Medication Regimen » LynnPerley, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 12:25:56
Good to hear. Yeah, I think it's all about metabolizing. Somewhere here I went into a pretty lengthy pharmacokinetic explanation of the our differences in metabolizing and the ultimate difference in our response to extended release medications.
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 12:44:51
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 8:48:22
Atticus:
I remember well the first time I told my boss about my ADHD diagnosis 7 years ago... WHAT A MISTAKE!!! As you said, there was absolutely NO empathy because he had no knowledge to base his judment on, and after that my behavior, in minute detail was filtered through that lens. YUK!
When I began chemical treatment for clinical depression, I got very little support from my wife, who questioned the high cost of the meds, especially the first month before my deductible had been met and for months after as we tried many different meds, trying to find the right combination. She was going through ovarian cancer and I had to almost blow up at her and explain that my condition killed far more people per year than hers....
I understand completely where you're coming from.
Tony
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:51:43
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 8:48:22
Atticus, I'm w/ you on this stigma! We have to learn to protect ourselves I guess and not be so honest, well open about our lives. Because yes we are living in an outdated 'burn the witch' environment. It's crazy,...things people can do today that they couldn't 50 yrs ago, but they still haven't learned that a mental problem is a medical problem! Anyway, you asked about another drug like Effexor or Effexor-XR and there is one. I can't recall the name so will have to get back to you. At present, I believe only available in Canada. Someone here brought it to light. I'll try find it and get back to you. Maybe you could help me on something. What are the symptoms of ADD or attention problems? I can listen to someone talk to me for 10 minutes and walk away and not remember a thing they said! cf
Posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 14:46:06
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Atticus, posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 12:51:43
Corafree,
I wish I knew something about ADD so I could help out, but it's a condition that I can't speak with any authority about. I know there are a bunch of people who do have adult ADHD and participate in this site. Tony (aka PoohBear) is one such person. Hopefully, he and some of the others can give you some guidance on this. Atticus
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 15:22:09
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Atticus, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 12:44:51
Hey Tony. Effexor-XR working o.k. I wonder could you tell me something about ADHD. I stood and listened to my caseworker yesterday for 15 minutes. Today I can't remember what he said. I thought I was hearing him, ya' know, taking it in, but I don't remember anything but him saying 'see ya' as I left. I've always wondered about my attn span and learning abilities, had trouble w/ math, and I do have trouble with keeping thoughts in my head long enough to write them down. Anyway, would appreciate your insight. cf
Posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 15:29:17
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Corafree, posted by Atticus on July 14, 2004, at 14:46:06
Atticus, it's Cymbalta, or duloxetine. Comparative affinity of duloxetine and venlafaxine for serotonin and norepinephrine transporters in vitro and in vivo, human serotonin receptor subtypes, and other neuronal receptors. It's the drug I was talking about. Check see what you can find on it. cf
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:49:43
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » PoohBear, posted by Corafree on July 14, 2004, at 15:22:09
> Hey Tony. Effexor-XR working o.k. I wonder could you tell me something about ADHD. I stood and listened to my caseworker yesterday for 15 minutes. Today I can't remember what he said. I thought I was hearing him, ya' know, taking it in, but I don't remember anything but him saying 'see ya' as I left. I've always wondered about my attn span and learning abilities, had trouble w/ math, and I do have trouble with keeping thoughts in my head long enough to write them down. Anyway, would appreciate your insight. cf
Cora:
A great book on ADHD or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is:
"You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?"
After I read that all of a sudden many things that had happened in my childhood and youth made sense.
ADHD'rs brains are wired differently than most people and many respond to stimulants to calm down or focus, the opposite of the effect these drugs would have on the general population. Most researchers thought that children grew out of ADHD as they reached adulthood, but we now know this is not the case: adults simply develop coping mechanisms that mask the condition.
You should go to a psychologist who is trained to recognize and treat ADHD for a diagnosis. Don't rely on books or anecdotal evidence as other disorders like some forms of bipolar can "look" like ADHD. In fact, many children with ADHD develop bipolar as they age.
Not all people with ADHD are hyperactive, especially women. Tell-tale signs are inability to focus, racing thoughts, procrasitnation, need to have many projects going at once, inability to finish a project, daydreaming, etc.
I wrote a poem about ADHD here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/write/20040102/msgs/306852.html
Best wishes!
Tony
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 14, 2004, at 18:54:25
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Corafree, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:49:43
> A great book on ADHD or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is:
>
> "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?"I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:58:56
In reply to Re: double double quotes » PoohBear, posted by Dr. Bob on July 14, 2004, at 18:54:25
Bob:
Thanks, I finally understand what the double-dsouble quotes thing is... It didn't make sense before. Let's try this one more time:
"You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?"
Tony
Posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:59:54
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:58:56
The link thing is VERY cool...
Tony
Posted by pablo1 on July 14, 2004, at 19:10:05
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:58:56
Sari Solden "Women with attention deficit disorder"
Posted by Karen Smith on July 15, 2004, at 2:13:53
In reply to Re: Cam- how to read the article, posted by LD on April 27, 2000, at 8:12:06
I have been on effexor xr 150mg for years now and did gain over 30lbs. I wasn't happy about the weight gain . I had decided to get off the meds due to divorce and lack of finances . I was told to take it everyother day for two weeks and then quit. I did and had withdrawal symptoms of headache and weird high pitched ringing in my ears.When I moved my eyes from side to side I would feel dizzy and the ringing followed the movement. It is hard to really explain. I took it upon myself to take 75mg then for every other day for two weeks and try quiting but this did not work. I decided I would go cold turkey and try to tolerate the symptom for a few days more at least and see if the symptoms stop. I really have no other choice since I can not afford the meds anymore. Wish me luck! I hope I can loose the weight I gained in time too! Anyone else have these wierd symptoms as mine? Is there any hope?
Posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 8:56:38
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Corafree, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:49:43
Whoa Nellie! That really hit home, your poem. Since I've been on Effexor-XR, I've had the ability to kind of step back and look at myself. As a child, I was a little 'tornado'. I do currently go over and over silly thoughts in my mind, cannot make decisions; and have had so many jobs, friends, lovers come and go - I think because of inability to communicate. When their gone, I think, but that's not what I meant! Your poem is like a definition, and so big thank you! Don't you think some peeps have it to a more or lesser degree? I have always been a neat freak, but on Effexor-XR, or in my current situation anyway, things are all scattered around my house. My sink is full of dirty dishes as never before. I always thought if I kept things in order, then I would be in order. Can't do it now. I feel so melancholy about life. Kind of an anxious 'don't do anything because it might be wrong' feeling. Feel fatigued and lazy. I wonder if maybe something has been brought to the surface from that little tornado. Hmmm. If not busy, have any insight?
Posted by pablo1 on July 15, 2004, at 9:40:59
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » PoohBear, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 8:56:38
I agree that was a wonderful poem!
The Solden book would be good reading for you corafree. Yes many people have a certain amount of ADD character at one time or another. An official diagnosis comes when it is persistent since a young child and when it's bad enough to really interfere with your life. Solden talks about how ADD women often cope by keeping things organized and working very hard (which is a standard image for any mother and wife) but for the ADD woman it is very difficult though she may not realize, she may be working overtime just to keep head above water and eventually burn out becoming depressed. The same thing that happens to a busy non-ADD career mother yuppie as well but for the ADD woman even the simplest life is very difficult to manage. Part of the stress is not knowing why some things are such a struggle or knowing that they are much more of a struggle than other people who just naturally keep things orderly.
The treatment is to recognize you may be burning yourself out and try to delegate those types of tasks. In a career, find a position where you don't do a lot of filing but do something more creative. Stimulants can transform some into a more neuro-typical person but only for a few hours at a time and some prefer to only use them when essential.
> Whoa Nellie! That really hit home, your poem. Since I've been on Effexor-XR, I've had the ability to kind of step back and look at myself. As a child, I was a little 'tornado'. I do currently go over and over silly thoughts in my mind, cannot make decisions; and have had so many jobs, friends, lovers come and go - I think because of inability to communicate. When their gone, I think, but that's not what I meant! Your poem is like a definition, and so big thank you! Don't you think some peeps have it to a more or lesser degree? I have always been a neat freak, but on Effexor-XR, or in my current situation anyway, things are all scattered around my house. My sink is full of dirty dishes as never before. I always thought if I kept things in order, then I would be in order. Can't do it now. I feel so melancholy about life. Kind of an anxious 'don't do anything because it might be wrong' feeling. Feel fatigued and lazy. I wonder if maybe something has been brought to the surface from that little tornado. Hmmm. If not busy, have any insight?
Posted by lorily on July 15, 2004, at 10:03:07
In reply to Re: Cam- how to read the article, posted by Karen Smith on July 15, 2004, at 2:13:53
Karen, each and every symptom I can relate to. My suggestion is to decrease the effexor slowly, as all the things you're feeling is due to your body trying to do what the effexor does and it doesn't remember how so to speak. Effexor has a short half life so you feel this. Other AD stay in your system a lot longer so your body adjusts slowly to not having the meds and side effects aren't like that. As for not having money for the meds, I feel you. The doctor prescribing them to you may have samples to give you for free while you're doing this. Also, you can look into charity care. Don't let your pride stand in the way of your health by no means!!!!
Posted by PoohBear on July 15, 2004, at 11:23:32
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » PoohBear, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 8:56:38
Cora:
As to whether all people have ADHD to some extent or other, I would agree with Pablo, that many people exhibit ADHD-like symptoms at certain periods of their life. In Britain they don't even have a diagnosis for ADHD, feeling that it is over-indicated in American psychiatry...
That said, the difference, I think, is that the "symptoms" for the person with "true" ADHD are much more intense and persistent. It's normal for almost anyone to have lazy periods, but is this something that has been a persistent pattern in a person's life, and if so, why?
I really do think that there are so many things about the brain and our nervous system that are either not understood or are MISUNDERSTOOD that it sometimes makes correct diagnosis an real issue. Not all psychologists "believe" that there is such a thing as ADHD. If that were not the case, there would be far fewer doctors preaching the "no medication for children" message. The key is doing enough research on your own to be versed enough in the subject that you understand the disorder and its variations so that you can carry on an effective treatment program with your therapist, who will hopefully be trained enough to diagnose and guide.
There is a test that you can take online from the Amen Clinic:
http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/adult.asp
Take the test and then take it to your therapist and see what they recommend...
I have personal theory as to why there may be so many people in the US that exhibit ADHD symptoms.
I believe that based on genetics, one can make a case that since 99% of the population originally came from somewhere else, that the people that came here were the adventurous types who were in one way or another disatisfied with were they were, their station in life or who simply were driven to seek new horizons. These people then "bred" that brain wiring into many of the general population.
There are those as well who feel that ADHD symptoms are brough on by environmental stimuli, like mercury. I think if you look at Dr. Amen's research with brain scans, you'll agree with me that there must be some other mechanism at work.
Best wishes!
Tony
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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