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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:29:51
In reply to Re: TELL OPRAH YOU HATE EFFEXOR, posted by Sinnielou on April 30, 2004, at 15:19:02
Posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:37:25
In reply to Re: Effexor works for me!! » TanyaJean, posted by noa on April 30, 2004, at 18:21:51
"*being seen for psychiatric care by general physicians (primary care docs) and not by psychiatrists with adequate psychopharm knowledge"That above is the most important piece of it, for me. I was put on this medication by an internal medicine doctor. I have Rheumatoid arthritis and the assumption was because I had all this pain, I was depressed too. I went a long with it. I truly think a psychiatrist would have been the person to put me on any anti-depressant. I'm more surprised that I'm having these symptoms. I've never had any reaction to any drug, anti depressant or not.
Posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:44:02
In reply to Re: TELL OPRAH YOU HATE EFFEXORSinnielou, posted by Sinnielou on April 30, 2004, at 18:39:05
"> I knew what I was getting into before I started the Effexor. Every single question I had I wrote down and every symptom I had I wrote down as well and I tokk everything with me for my very first doctors appointment."That's great for you, that you had the forethought to do that. I would have never even thought to do that. My doctor at the time was so great about telling me the side effects of all other meds, I wasn't at all questioning the EFFEXOR. At the time, i was on PAXIL and told him my problems and he switched me to EFFEXOR, saying it would be a much better drug for me. I'm no drug dummy either, I've been on anti-depressants before. Paxil, Prozac, Imipramine, Celexa, Wellbutrin. I thought it was another line of anti-depressant. There was no way I would have guessed it would do what it did to me. I didn't take my notes to my doctor and ask every single question. I'm also not going to feel stupid and beat myself up for not doing so. I was one that went along with what the doctor said. Now I know better. I think we all do.
Posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:49:44
In reply to Re: are these posts representative? » TanyaJean, posted by noa on April 30, 2004, at 18:49:22
"> But I do understand the frustration and anger and need to vent. I just wish people would find a way to do that without too much sensation."I'm not sure there's a way to get around the sensation. People are mad. I am. I think at first when I was so sick, I was all ready for this to be taken off the market. Now that I'm feeling better, I see the need for the doctor's to know better what they're giving out. Hopefully a regular physician isn't going to be handing these out. Is it just me, or has EFFEXOR risen in popularity over the past couple of years? I hadn't heard of it until I was prescribed it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2004, at 22:06:20
In reply to Re: TELL OPRAH YOU HATE EFFEXORSinnielou, posted by maxziggy2002 on April 30, 2004, at 18:26:21
> Effexor and its maker are monsters.
>
> It seems to me that anyone who would spend their time reading and replying to these posts must have a vested interest in effexor, say by being an employee or investor in Wyeth, the drug manufacturer. Or maybe you work for one of the advertising agencies that makes a bundle peddling this crack on behalf of Wyeth. Or maybe you're a doctor who gets a kickback from Wyeth for prescribing it.Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize or jump to conclusions about others.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sinnielou on April 30, 2004, at 23:20:22
In reply to Re: please be civil » maxziggy2002, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2004, at 22:06:20
> > Effexor and its maker are monsters.
> >
> > It seems to me that anyone who would spend their time reading and replying to these posts must have a vested interest in effexor, say by being an employee or investor in Wyeth, the drug manufacturer. Or maybe you work for one of the advertising agencies that makes a bundle peddling this crack on behalf of Wyeth. Or maybe you're a doctor who gets a kickback from Wyeth for prescribing it.
>
> Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize or jump to conclusions about others.
>
> If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobI would like to apologise to Bob and to anyone else in this community if I have offended anyone. I would just like to say I wasn't trying to vent my anger towards anyone. I just found it very upsetting that someone could post a message about a drug that millions of people are on. When I read the very first post I was disturbed because I have found this community to be very informative and when i read it I thought to myself if I had just returned from my doctors office with a prescription for Effexor and or had just taken my very first dose how scared I would be after reading the posts. I believe we are all a part of this community to seek support or information in some way or another. Like I said what works for me doesn't mean it will work for others, but I also don't slander what doesn't work for my all I can do is share my experiences. Once again I apologise.
Posted by Raggy on April 30, 2004, at 23:53:29
In reply to Re: are these posts representative? » noa, posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:49:44
I just read the other day that Effexor sales are up 31% this year.
They give it to women for hormone problems and and to people with arthritis as they feel these people are depressed over their illness. They give these antidepressants out like candy anymore.
Wyeth finally upped the warning last month to raise the age from 18 to adults that these antidepressants can cause more depression and make people suicial. I feel they knew this all this time and held it back. It took all those people going to Washington DC to finally get these drug companies to up this warning from 18 to adults. You can read about these people and the anit anit drpession crusade in the April 5th issue of People magazine.They all went and testified about loved ones that got more depressed and also suicidal and the ones who committed suicide, like my darling daughter in law. This warning came out 6 months after she died. So sad for all who have been on these durgs since the early 90's and for all these families who have lost ones. God Bless them for their dedication on getting these drug companies to admit this.
And it is just like the government, they tell us this BUT , What are they not telling us. Very scary.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 1, 2004, at 1:12:03
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Sinnielou on April 30, 2004, at 23:20:22
"When I read the very first post I was disturbed because I have found this community to be very informative and when i read it I thought to myself if I had just returned from my doctors office with a prescription for Effexor and or had just taken my very first dose how scared I would be after reading the posts."
**I think a lot of people think "It won't happen to me." and would ignore the posts. I know I might have. I wish I had read something like this because I had no idea what this drug could do. To me anyway. I wish I had found this sooner. I know I keep writing on here, but it's providing a very good outlet. People for or against EFFEXOR are giving out a lot of useful information.
Posted by chemist on May 1, 2004, at 1:33:09
In reply to Re: please be civil » maxziggy2002, posted by Dr. Bob on April 30, 2004, at 22:06:20
> > Effexor and its maker are monsters.
> >
> > It seems to me that anyone who would spend their time reading and replying to these posts must have a vested interest in effexor, say by being an employee or investor in Wyeth, the drug manufacturer. Or maybe you work for one of the advertising agencies that makes a bundle peddling this crack on behalf of Wyeth. Or maybe you're a doctor who gets a kickback from Wyeth for prescribing it.
>
> Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize or jump to conclusions about others.
>
> If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bobchemist here...i amon the same page as dr. bob...i have seen goog and not-so-good responses to effexor, in clinical settings. i do not work for wyeth. remember that individuals respond differently to medications, and there are many variables (hepatic dysfunction, renal clearance, drug interactions, herbal/drug interactions, etc, to name just a few). if it doesn't work for you, try another therapy. don't bad-mouth it on this board as the goal is to provide general information, not personal horror stories which in all likelihood will not be relevant to all genders, races, ages, and folks with other illnesses. not endorsing effexor, but throwing my opinion in the mix. many, many posters are on an extreme amount of (usually) redundant medications, and your ``problem'' with effexor might well be related to a drug-drug interation or a contraindication that a very detailed CBC might well show...all the best, chemist
Posted by TanyaJean on May 1, 2004, at 2:10:54
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by chemist on May 1, 2004, at 1:33:09
"don't bad-mouth it on this board as the goal is to provide general information, not personal horror stories which in all likelihood will not be relevant to all genders, races, ages, and folks with other illnesses."
OK, last post for me for a while. We're here because a forum was provided for us. I'm thankful for the "horror stories" because they do indeed give us much needed information, as do the "Non Horror Stories".
This may not seem relevent, but bear with me. I saw a story on the news that people who take heart medication be wary of drinking grapefruit juice WITH the heart medication as it could cause serious problems, even death. Of course not EVERYONE who drank grapefruit juice with heart medication would suffer consquences, but it was on the news all the same. Why do people have such a problem with EFFEXOR and anti depressant side effects being so well publicized?
It seems on this forum for people to talk about this very thing, the people sharing their stories are being talked down to. In many ways they're being told not to share what's happening. I may not be a chemist or doctor, but I know full well that what will happen to one person will not happen to everyone.
Posted by chemist on May 1, 2004, at 2:21:43
In reply to Re: please be civil » chemist, posted by TanyaJean on May 1, 2004, at 2:10:54
> "don't bad-mouth it on this board as the goal is to provide general information, not personal horror stories which in all likelihood will not be relevant to all genders, races, ages, and folks with other illnesses."
>
> OK, last post for me for a while. We're here because a forum was provided for us. I'm thankful for the "horror stories" because they do indeed give us much needed information, as do the "Non Horror Stories".
>
> This may not seem relevent, but bear with me. I saw a story on the news that people who take heart medication be wary of drinking grapefruit juice WITH the heart medication as it could cause serious problems, even death. Of course not EVERYONE who drank grapefruit juice with heart medication would suffer consquences, but it was on the news all the same. Why do people have such a problem with EFFEXOR and anti depressant side effects being so well publicized?
>
> It seems on this forum for people to talk about this very thing, the people sharing their stories are being talked down to. In many ways they're being told not to share what's happening. I may not be a chemist or doctor, but I know full well that what will happen to one person will not happen to everyone.
understood. the grapefruit thing is mainly limited to benzodiazepenes. a substance called bergamottin will decrease elimination of benzos via the CYP450 enzyme. it is both an inhibitor and inducer of CYP450. to the best of my knowledge, the bergamottin increase is most deleterious with bezos, but i stand corrected if you have peer-reviewed pubs indicating that heart medications - and there are numerous ones, as you know - interact with bergamottin and the CYP450 enzyme....all the best, chemist
Posted by noa on May 1, 2004, at 6:49:28
In reply to Re: are these posts representative? » noa, posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:49:44
>Is it just me, or has EFFEXOR risen in popularity over the past couple of years?
I think yes.
Posted by noa on May 1, 2004, at 6:51:35
In reply to Re: are these posts representative? » noa, posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:49:44
OOPS--Grammatically speaking, I realize that my "Yes" in my previous message is ambiguous! Sorry--I meant yes to its being more popular, not to "is it just me".
Posted by noa on May 1, 2004, at 6:56:16
In reply to Re: TELL OPRAH YOU HATE EFFEXORSinnielou, posted by maxziggy2002 on April 30, 2004, at 18:26:21
>It seems to me that anyone who would spend their time reading and replying to these posts must have a vested interest in effexor, say by being an employee or investor in Wyeth, the drug manufacturer. Or maybe you work for one of the advertising agencies that makes a bundle peddling this crack on behalf of Wyeth. Or maybe you're a doctor who gets a kickback from Wyeth for prescribing it.
I can assure you that this is not the case for me.
And, if we follow this logic, couldn't someone say that perhaps people who spend time writing very negative things about Effexor might have a vested interest in one of its competitors?
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 8:04:49
In reply to Re: are these posts representative? » noa, posted by TanyaJean on April 30, 2004, at 21:49:44
> Is it just me, or has EFFEXOR risen in popularity over the past couple of years? I hadn't heard of it until I was prescribed it.
I really don't know whether or not Effexor is being prescribed more often. It would not surprise me though. Like it or not, Effexor gets more people well than any of the SSRIs, and for those whom respond, promotes a greater degree of improvement. The chances of being brought into complete remission is significantly higher with Effexor than with Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, and Lexapro.
There are a bunch more.
These results are supported by a double-blind study of over 2000 patients conducted in 2001.
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/178/3/234
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2004, at 8:06:23
In reply to Re: please be civil » chemist, posted by TanyaJean on May 1, 2004, at 2:10:54
> Why do people have such a problem with EFFEXOR and anti depressant side effects being so well publicized?
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding posting policies to Psycho-Babble Administration. My own response is at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040307/msgs/342111.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 1, 2004, at 8:07:57
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Sinnielou on April 30, 2004, at 23:20:22
Posted by seeknsolace on May 1, 2004, at 12:20:09
In reply to Does it ever end? When?, posted by seeknsolace on April 30, 2004, at 5:33:17
I read some stuff today about 5-htp, some woman decribed the ill effects of coming off effexor and how much 5-htp helped her thru the transition and with the depression in general. Still feeling like shit from effexor withdrawals, a little more tolerable today, I think in some ways I go mentally numb trying not to do too much, think too much, and also trying to disconnect from the hell ravaging my body, but in only is working slightly, in truth body still aches.. I wonder if this is what fibromyalgia or arthritis feels like, and still have the electric shocks, its very cool out today and my fingers hurt from the cold, mind you its in the 40s maybe 50s, not too extreme, just extra sensitive for whatever reason.
So anyways, gonna dive into the 5-htp tonite, 50 mgs.. will let ya know how it works, its key ingredient is tryptophan, sounds as bad as taking meth, not that I know, just tired of depending on drugs to dictate what my quality of life is going to be!
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 12:50:55
In reply to Re: Does it ever end? When?, posted by seeknsolace on May 1, 2004, at 12:20:09
> I read some stuff today about 5-htp, some woman decribed the ill effects of coming off effexor and how much 5-htp helped her thru the transition and with the depression in general.
> So anyways, gonna dive into the 5-htp tonite, 50 mgs.. will let ya know how it works,
Good luck. I hope things get better for you soon
:-)
- Scott
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 1, 2004, at 13:01:21
In reply to Re: TELL OPRAH YOU HATE EFFEXORSinnielou » maxziggy2002, posted by noa on May 1, 2004, at 6:56:16
Yes I do have a vested interest in several of Effexors competitors: therapy, proper nutrition, and exercise.
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 13:48:17
In reply to Re: please be civil}}Dr Bob, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 1, 2004, at 12:59:25
> But if we want to actually DO something about, like alert the public, force the manufacturer to fully disclose side effects, or even start a lawsuit, then we are overgeneralizing and jumping to conclusions?
Hi.
Dr. Bob will hopefully redirect this post over to the Administration board for further discussion. I might be sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, but I wanted to suggest to you that you continue posting here if you would like. I won't write too much here, but the following is my perspective on things.
I think what you are trying to do is admirable.
> > Effexor and its maker are monsters.
This site is moderated in a way that attempts to foster support and education in a pointed and focused way. It is a dialogue. An effort is made by posters to refine their language such that this can occur without personal attacks and exaggerated unsupported claims.
> > Or maybe you work for one of the advertising agencies that makes a bundle peddling this crack on behalf of Wyeth.
It does take some practice to write posts that don't over-generalize things as if they were absolute fact and applicable to all. Also, it takes some time to learn how to word things so that they don't accuse or judge others, even if only indirectly. The FAQ link at the top of this page offers some suggestions. You can look here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Good luck.
Bye the way, what did you think of the links I posted regarding the relative efficacy of Effexor to the SSRIs?
- Scott
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 1, 2004, at 14:53:15
In reply to Re: please be civil}}Dr Bob » maxziggy2002, posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 13:48:17
What I found interesting about these abstracts was that none of the studies lasted more than 8 weeks.
The first 8 weeks I was on effexor were nothing short of fantastic. But why aren't they conducting studies on the long-term benefits/problems? By 6 months, I was a walking zombie, and it took me another 6 months to realize it.
I lost 2 years of my life to this drug. Why aren't they studying that?? I think it's because they already know the answer, and they don't want it made public.
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 16:41:39
In reply to relative efficacy of Effexor to the SSRIs }} SLS, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 1, 2004, at 14:53:15
Hi again.
> What I found interesting about these abstracts was that none of the studies lasted more than 8 weeks.
You make an excellent, excellent point. The brevity of clinical investigations has always been a peeve of mine.
> The first 8 weeks I was on effexor were nothing short of fantastic.What was the highest dosage you took?
> But why aren't they conducting studies on the long-term benefits/problems?
There are some, but not nearly enough that have been published, I don't think.
> I lost 2 years of my life to this drug. Why aren't they studying that??
In your situation, I would say that it is the clinical judgment of your doctor that should be called into question.
> I think it's because they already know the answer, and they don't want it made public.
What do you think the answer would be if you had the ability to independently study the question?
I know you are angry, but I don't know if it is justifiable to generalize your experience with Effexor to the majority. Of course I don't know for sure, but I don't think there is a conspiracy pushing for the continued use of Effexor.
- Scott
Posted by seeknsolace on May 1, 2004, at 17:03:41
In reply to Re: relative efficacy of Effexor to the SSRIs }} SLS » maxziggy2002, posted by SLS on May 1, 2004, at 16:41:39
Hey Scott.. you seem like a nice guy.. are you married??? :) Btw, Thanks for the encouragement!
amy
Posted by Douglas T. on May 1, 2004, at 17:56:48
In reply to Re: relative efficacy of Effexor to the SSRIs }} SLS » SLS, posted by seeknsolace on May 1, 2004, at 17:03:41
I have been through the withdraral period (13 weeks of hell)
after 5 years on Effexor. I was in a fog for all of that time.
I am still not myself after almost a year. My site, dougtyler.com
has a lot of information and a way to get involved if you're like me
and want the idiots who make this stuff to pay us all back for what
we've been through. I am NOT selling anything.
Go to Effexor link at the bottom of the page. thanks and be well.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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