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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by poochi on February 16, 2004, at 17:58:08
In reply to Re: Major withdrawl symptoms, posted by contemplative1 on February 16, 2004, at 17:52:28
I"m SLOWLY getting off Effexor. I think that i will be breaking up the capsules soon, to go down from 37.5, i wish they made a lower dose . I just can't get into the idea of going onto somethig else to get off of something. Did that make any sense? lol, best luck to everyone.
Posted by Heath on February 16, 2004, at 19:13:07
In reply to Re: Sudden descent into Efexor hell, posted by MrsT on January 15, 2004, at 22:32:59
Hi,
Just wondered - I have been taking 300mg of Efexor XR twice a day and 700mg of Epilim as a mood stabilizer also twice a day - is this a lot..?
On top of this I have to take 80mg of OxyContin twice a day, do these mix well..?
Does anyone know?Any replies would be great.
Thx,
H
Posted by funnybunny on February 16, 2004, at 22:19:01
In reply to Re: Is anyone on more than me...?, posted by Heath on February 16, 2004, at 19:13:07
hi im new to the board. it seems like a lot of you have had good results with lexapro. i was on 75mg daily of effexor it seemed to work at first but after a year and half it didnt. so my doc gave me samples of lexapro i asked him if i needed to wean off the effexor first he said no not with that low of a dose. so yesterday i took my first pill of lex i felt great! today i dont feel so good. i have been having brain shocks off and on and felt tired and kinda sick like the flu. i was just wondering if anyone out there has switched and felt like this and if it will get better. thanks and god bless you all
Posted by poochi on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:07
In reply to Has anyone here switched from Effexor to Lexapro?, posted by funnybunny on February 16, 2004, at 22:19:01
I don't know anything about Lexapro, but I do know that even going off effexor at 37.5 is too much to do without slowly tapering. Your brain zaps ARE from the Effexor withdrawl. Good luck to you.
Posted by Judie on February 17, 2004, at 7:24:35
In reply to Has anyone here switched from Effexor to Lexapro?, posted by funnybunny on February 16, 2004, at 22:19:01
Can't help you out on the Lexapro... but I do know that even on only 75mgs of effexor, you'll have withdrawel symptoms. I've had vertigo, headaches and nausea... and that's the dose I was on for 6 months. MAKES ME SO MAD THAT OUR DOCTORS DON'T KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THIS DRUG!!! I'm tapering off now and feeling a little better. This posting board has helped me a lot... hang in there... you'll get through this.
Posted by ann72 on February 17, 2004, at 12:04:56
In reply to Re: Has anyone here switched from Effexor to Lexapro?, posted by Judie on February 17, 2004, at 7:24:35
Hate to switch the topic but after reading this thread i wonder has anyone stopped effexor and successfully switched to another drug (like an ssri) without the major withdrawl symptoms from effexor?
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 17, 2004, at 18:03:38
In reply to Re: Major withdrawl symptoms, posted by Judie on February 15, 2004, at 10:59:26
Effexor becomes more noradrenergic at higher doses (like 225 mg/day) and the blunting tends to go away.
DO NOT stop effexor since if you tolerate it
(except the blunting) it's a great pill.If this stays after a month on 225, you should add something dopaminergic like amantadine, Mirapex in this order. If you live outside the US amisulpride is great.
Bye for now!
Jimmy> I am stopping effexor xr after 6 months, because I , too felt "flat-lined"... like I wasn't depressed, but I felt no joy or passion in anything I did, either. My doctor (GP) wanted to double my dose, but I can't see how that would fix my problem. I want to feel SOMETHING, just not suicidal! My last dose was 2 days ago. I'd been taking 75 mgs. a day. When I woke up so dizzy today, I started hunting on the internet for some info and I'm thrilled I found this site. Looks like I'd better taper off instead of going cold turkey. I dumped half of the granules out of a capsule and I'm going to try that every day for a week. I don't want to drag this out too long, but I have to be able to function. Scares me that folks are having withdrawel symptoms AFTER two weeks of quitting!! Somebody PLEASE post a success story for getting off this stuff!
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 2:41:32
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use !, posted by Warrior13 on December 17, 2003, at 11:09:20
Do NOT use cocaine. Effexor is the best antidepressant for people suffering from cocaine abuse, even a year after stopping it your brain wont be the same.
I'm a recovering addict to cocaine, meth, benzos, alcohol, ecstasy, basically everything. Do NOT use drugs if not prescribed to you. Oh yeah, you could have a seizure/stroke or worse mixing cocaine with an activating antidepressant like Effexor
Posted by Semi-conscious on February 18, 2004, at 3:34:59
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use ! » Warrior13, posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 2:41:32
> Do NOT use cocaine. Effexor is the best antidepressant for people suffering from cocaine abuse, even a year after stopping it your brain wont be the same.
> I'm a recovering addict to cocaine, meth, benzos, alcohol, ecstasy, basically everything. Do NOT use drugs if not prescribed to you. Oh yeah, you could have a seizure/stroke or worse mixing cocaine with an activating antidepressant like Effexor
I'VE BEEN TAKING EFFEXOR SR 175MGS FOR OVER A YEAR. I'M STILL DEPRESED AND I HAVE GAINED SO MUCH WEIGHT I LOOK LIKE A PIG. I'M TIRED AND APATHETIC AND I USUALLY DON'T GET OFF THE COUCH FOR A WEEK AT A TIME. THE ONLY TIME I GET ANYTHING DONE OR EVEN BRUSH MY TEETH IS WHEN i USE METH AND THEN I DRINK A COUPLE VODKAS AND COKE IN THE EVENING, THEN I TAKE MY NIGHT TIME MEDS, ALL THREE OF THEM. THE ONLY REAL PROBLEM I CAN FORSEE OR HAVE HAD IS WITH MY LIVER CAUSE EFFEXOR IS A LITTLE HARD ON THE LIVER ANYWAY. I SELF-MEDICATE. I'M SO TIRED OF TRYING SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AND GOING OFF OF ONE AND TRYING ANOTHER AND UPPING THE DOSAGES. I WANT RELIEF NOW. I KNOW IT MAY NOT BE THE BEST THING, BUT AS LONG AS I CAN AFFORD IT ($20) A DAY, I'LL PROBABLY CONTINUE. I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT OTHERS DO THIS, NOT EVERYONE CAN HANDLE IT LIKE I CAN.
Posted by contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 10:20:19
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use !, posted by Warrior13 on December 17, 2003, at 11:09:20
I am a recovering cocaine user. I was taking Celexa and was doing cocaine. Suffice to say I had no idea if the Celexa had any effect as the cocaine superceded any other emotion, purpose, desire, meaning or importance. I had a singleness of purpose and that was to stay high on the cocaine. Celexa (similar to Effexor in the SSRI component) was just a placebo at that point that I continued to take out of fear that its discontinuation would conflict with my cocaine high.
NOW the important part, and I will not address the potential for abuse as I would be preaching to the choir I hope, is that when I discontinued the cocaine the Celexa DID NOT WORK for 2 months. According to my doctor at the time, cocaine releases massive amounts of seratonin into your bloodstream and once you stop using cocaine, your body/brain yearns for the same effect. Any SSRI does not even come close to having the same effect. It is like taking aspirin after using heroin.
I went through two of the worst months in my life. The Celexa was not doing what it was supposed to do because the cocaine blew it out of the water and I was craving for the cocaine that at that point was just causing massive paranoia every time I used.
I hope this helps.
> Hi There, I wondered if recreational use of cocaine would be detrimental to the affects of Effexor or worse still damaging overall ?
>
> Any ideas on this subject ?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Wilf
Posted by jahmah on February 18, 2004, at 10:22:35
In reply to Re: Going off of Effexor: Attn 4peace, posted by lacey2001 on February 8, 2004, at 13:24:02
> You and I seem to be in the same boat right now. We are both at 75 mg and trying to get off to become pregnant. Maybe we can email each other privately to help each other along. By the way my hubby and I are going to be trying for our second child too:)
> Here is my email addey [email protected]
>
> Tanya
>
> I am on Effexor XR, slow relase capsules. I take 2 (37.5) capules each morning. How can I slowly ween myself off of these before I try to get pregnant. Has anyone had to switch to the pill form which is easier to break up? Any success, advice, concerns?
>
> Hi,Be prepared for a ride. I think the caps are the best. you can go to a health food store and get your own empty gell caps and start to devide your caps up.Thats what I did . I went from 150 and devided them into four caps. Its been5 days now and its been like the worst hangover Ive had with electric shocks going through my brain dawn my arms and into my hands and feet. It may sound funny, but, brushing my hair is my idicator if it is getting better. Today is just a little bit better than yesterday.Good luck
jeff
Posted by poochi on February 18, 2004, at 15:43:43
In reply to Re: Going off of Effexor: Attn 4peace, posted by jahmah on February 18, 2004, at 10:22:35
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
Posted by Contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 15:55:38
In reply to new Question, posted by poochi on February 18, 2004, at 15:43:43
Fluoxetine is Prozac.
It is much easier to get off of Prozac in my experience.
Is it addictive? Depends how you define the term. It does cause withdrawals and when going through withdrawals one usually feels worse than they did before taking the drug in the first place. It certainly is not abusable which is one of the components of addiction. However, when going through witdrawals one mught have strong temptations to pop a Prozac to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms.
> I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
Posted by poochi on February 18, 2004, at 16:34:07
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by Contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 15:55:38
thank you
Posted by Judie on February 18, 2004, at 16:39:57
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by Contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 15:55:38
I did not suffer any withdrawel symptoms when I quit taking Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin or Zoloft. 3 days off effexor and my head is throbbing and I'm still dizzy... but wouldn't call it addictive. I definitely don't want any more of it. I'm going to have a drink or two to ease the pain. Alcohol, on the other hand...
Posted by contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 19:38:20
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by Judie on February 18, 2004, at 16:39:57
Someone posted what I think to be very valuable info for getting off these meds:
"here's a weblink on SSRI withdrawal you might find interesting:
http://www.fpnotebook.com/PSY169.htmand here's the 'treatment' they recommend:
--------------------------
Management: Specific Withdrawal SymptomsCholinergic rebound symptoms (See above)
Atropine 0.8 mg PO tid to qid
Cogentin 0.5 to 4 mg PO qd
Artane 1-4 mg PO tid to qid
Donnatal 2 tablets PO tid-qidAnxiety
Lorazepam 0.5 to 1 mg PO tid prnDizziness
Antivert 12.5 to 25 mg PO q6 hours prn
Dramamine 50 mg PO q6 hours prn
---------------------huh well i got through on vicodin, marijuana, ambien, and the occassional
xanax. to each their own.you WILL get through!!!"
> I did not suffer any withdrawel symptoms when I quit taking Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin or Zoloft. 3 days off effexor and my head is throbbing and I'm still dizzy... but wouldn't call it addictive. I definitely don't want any more of it. I'm going to have a drink or two to ease the pain. Alcohol, on the other hand...
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:13:45
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use ! (RESPONSE) » Doctor Feel Good, posted by Semi-conscious on February 18, 2004, at 3:34:59
> > Do NOT use cocaine. Effexor is the best antidepressant for people suffering from cocaine abuse, even a year after stopping it your brain wont be the same.
> > I'm a recovering addict to cocaine, meth, benzos, alcohol, ecstasy, basically everything. Do NOT use drugs if not prescribed to you. Oh yeah, you could have a seizure/stroke or worse mixing cocaine with an activating antidepressant like Effexor
> I'VE BEEN TAKING EFFEXOR SR 175MGS FOR OVER A YEAR. I'M STILL DEPRESED AND I HAVE GAINED SO MUCH WEIGHT I LOOK LIKE A PIG. I'M TIRED AND APATHETIC AND I USUALLY DON'T GET OFF THE COUCH FOR A WEEK AT A TIME. THE ONLY TIME I GET ANYTHING DONE OR EVEN BRUSH MY TEETH IS WHEN i USE METH AND THEN I DRINK A COUPLE VODKAS AND COKE IN THE EVENING, THEN I TAKE MY NIGHT TIME MEDS, ALL THREE OF THEM. THE ONLY REAL PROBLEM I CAN FORSEE OR HAVE HAD IS WITH MY LIVER CAUSE EFFEXOR IS A LITTLE HARD ON THE LIVER ANYWAY. I SELF-MEDICATE. I'M SO TIRED OF TRYING SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AND GOING OFF OF ONE AND TRYING ANOTHER AND UPPING THE DOSAGES. I WANT RELIEF NOW. I KNOW IT MAY NOT BE THE BEST THING, BUT AS LONG AS I CAN AFFORD IT ($20) A DAY, I'LL PROBABLY CONTINUE. I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT OTHERS DO THIS, NOT EVERYONE CAN HANDLE IT LIKE I CAN.
>
>You must quit and possibly increase your effexor dosage. Cocaine may not make you hungry while intoxicated, but sooner or later you are going to pig out, maybe that's the cause of your weight gain. Please believe me when I say YOU HAVE A SERIOUS SUBSTANCE PROBLEM. You've tapped out your transmitters, therefore you are numb or very low to the world, a few sniffs with some booze fixes the problem immediately, but, I fear you don't realize how bad what you are doing is. I think you should goto a 30day detox program, where they can give you the proper meds for sleep, clean you out, and then you will realize how seriously deep in trouble you are currently in. Constant use doesnt allow your medication (effexor) to work. Please get help if not from Detox which I totally think would be good for you, then goto AA. Most people in AA are not only alcoholics these days. I was doing 3 eight balls a day not to mention meth and everything else. Put your trust in me and seek help, you won't be able to go it alone
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:16:38
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use !, posted by contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 10:20:19
It's good to hear you're clean. I highly recommend effexor or wellbutrin to give more pep to you (not you, but anyone else reading this who is thinking of quitting)
> I am a recovering cocaine user. I was taking Celexa and was doing cocaine. Suffice to say I had no idea if the Celexa had any effect as the cocaine superceded any other emotion, purpose, desire, meaning or importance. I had a singleness of purpose and that was to stay high on the cocaine. Celexa (similar to Effexor in the SSRI component) was just a placebo at that point that I continued to take out of fear that its discontinuation would conflict with my cocaine high.
>
> NOW the important part, and I will not address the potential for abuse as I would be preaching to the choir I hope, is that when I discontinued the cocaine the Celexa DID NOT WORK for 2 months. According to my doctor at the time, cocaine releases massive amounts of seratonin into your bloodstream and once you stop using cocaine, your body/brain yearns for the same effect. Any SSRI does not even come close to having the same effect. It is like taking aspirin after using heroin.
>
> I went through two of the worst months in my life. The Celexa was not doing what it was supposed to do because the cocaine blew it out of the water and I was craving for the cocaine that at that point was just causing massive paranoia every time I used.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> > Hi There, I wondered if recreational use of cocaine would be detrimental to the affects of Effexor or worse still damaging overall ?
> >
> > Any ideas on this subject ?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Wilf
>
>
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:19:28
In reply to Re: Going off of Effexor: Attn 4peace, posted by jahmah on February 18, 2004, at 10:22:35
Notify you're doctor that you would like to ween off, he'll probably tell you to take 1 37.5mg for 2 weeks and thats it. I highly suggest an exercise routine, great for you and the baby.
> > You and I seem to be in the same boat right now. We are both at 75 mg and trying to get off to become pregnant. Maybe we can email each other privately to help each other along. By the way my hubby and I are going to be trying for our second child too:)
> > Here is my email addey [email protected]
> >
> > Tanya
> >
> > I am on Effexor XR, slow relase capsules. I take 2 (37.5) capules each morning. How can I slowly ween myself off of these before I try to get pregnant. Has anyone had to switch to the pill form which is easier to break up? Any success, advice, concerns?
> >
> > Hi,Be prepared for a ride. I think the caps are the best. you can go to a health food store and get your own empty gell caps and start to devide your caps up.Thats what I did . I went from 150 and devided them into four caps. Its been5 days now and its been like the worst hangover Ive had with electric shocks going through my brain dawn my arms and into my hands and feet. It may sound funny, but, brushing my hair is my idicator if it is getting better. Today is just a little bit better than yesterday.
>
> Good luck
>
> jeff
>
>
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:21:19
In reply to new Question, posted by poochi on February 18, 2004, at 15:43:43
Prozac is not addictive. Everyone is different and some do not experience withdrawal. You may expect some mood swings, but ask your doctor.
> I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:24:56
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by Contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 15:55:38
I feel what you said is inaccurate. Everyone's body is different, and you are using your experience to tell someone to expect. I find in Psychology/Psychiatry that similarities a client and a Dr. have, the Dr. may assume they are totally alike which is a no no. I hope I am not insulting you, because I am not. I respect your giving advice.
> Fluoxetine is Prozac.
>
> It is much easier to get off of Prozac in my experience.
>
> Is it addictive? Depends how you define the term. It does cause withdrawals and when going through withdrawals one usually feels worse than they did before taking the drug in the first place. It certainly is not abusable which is one of the components of addiction. However, when going through witdrawals one mught have strong temptations to pop a Prozac to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms.
>
>
> > I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
>
>
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:28:11
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by Judie on February 18, 2004, at 16:39:57
Stay away from the booze! It may make u sink to an alltime low mood. The med is still in your system, and many people find drinking on them makes them sad, so you have that added to a possible withdrawal if you have had symptoms.
> I did not suffer any withdrawel symptoms when I quit taking Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin or Zoloft. 3 days off effexor and my head is throbbing and I'm still dizzy... but wouldn't call it addictive. I definitely don't want any more of it. I'm going to have a drink or two to ease the pain. Alcohol, on the other hand...
Posted by contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 20:29:57
In reply to Re: new Question » Contemplative1, posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:24:56
Thank you, I stand corrected and not insulted.
Thus, Prozac for me did cause some mild withdrawals but not as severe as Celexa or Paxil and from what I hear Effexor. And as Doctor Feel Good correctly pointed out, one person's experience is by no means necessarily another's.
> I feel what you said is inaccurate. Everyone's body is different, and you are using your experience to tell someone to expect. I find in Psychology/Psychiatry that similarities a client and a Dr. have, the Dr. may assume they are totally alike which is a no no. I hope I am not insulting you, because I am not. I respect your giving advice.
> > Fluoxetine is Prozac.
> >
> > It is much easier to get off of Prozac in my experience.
> >
> > Is it addictive? Depends how you define the term. It does cause withdrawals and when going through withdrawals one usually feels worse than they did before taking the drug in the first place. It certainly is not abusable which is one of the components of addiction. However, when going through witdrawals one mught have strong temptations to pop a Prozac to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms.
> >
> >
> > > I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by PsychoSage on February 18, 2004, at 21:10:24
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Cocaine use ! (RESPONSE), posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 20:13:45
> > > Do NOT use cocaine. Effexor is the best antidepressant for people suffering from cocaine abuse, even a year after stopping it your brain wont be the same.
> > > I'm a recovering addict to cocaine, meth, benzos, alcohol, ecstasy, basically everything. Do NOT use drugs if not prescribed to you. Oh yeah, you could have a seizure/stroke or worse mixing cocaine with an activating antidepressant like Effexor
Whoever is taking illicit drugs on Effexor, be careful. I have already reported my "overdoses" with a little bit of meth while being on Effexor. It happened twice in two weeks. I was in the ER twice. I had purple skin [94F temp- not sure why i did not overheat each time], and my heart was about to burst. each time IV benzos saved my life. The second time involved nitroglycerin and lots of morphine shots for my chest pain, and i was hooked up to heart monitors over night. My doctor at detox the following week who also taught at my university told me to don't be on the AD for a week before I start using, so I don't DIE!I was 21 at the time. It was so sad because a Doctor from student health came to see me when I was admitted overnight. It was purely out of sympathy. I was young and stupid. She had overheard that I was there, and she had not treated me before or known me. It's a sad thing to screw yourself over while on drugs that are supposed to save your life.
I haven't even read this post completely or this thread because it is very very simple. Don't take E, crystal or coke while on any of those psychiatric drugs. What is the point anyways?? Why stay on the ADs or whatever other psych drug if you are using other psychoactive drugs that hinder your treatment or actually downright nullify it. I can tell you that benzos and the emergency room save lives. I am not going to tell you to take them without a script as protection, but it's been known to be done.
I am not the only idiot ever!!
SSRIs and E or meth do not get along either.
Posted by Doctor Feel Good on February 18, 2004, at 22:24:01
In reply to Re: new Question, posted by contemplative1 on February 18, 2004, at 20:29:57
Thanks! :) I felt bad
> Thank you, I stand corrected and not insulted.
>
> Thus, Prozac for me did cause some mild withdrawals but not as severe as Celexa or Paxil and from what I hear Effexor. And as Doctor Feel Good correctly pointed out, one person's experience is by no means necessarily another's.
>
> > I feel what you said is inaccurate. Everyone's body is different, and you are using your experience to tell someone to expect. I find in Psychology/Psychiatry that similarities a client and a Dr. have, the Dr. may assume they are totally alike which is a no no. I hope I am not insulting you, because I am not. I respect your giving advice.
> > > Fluoxetine is Prozac.
> > >
> > > It is much easier to get off of Prozac in my experience.
> > >
> > > Is it addictive? Depends how you define the term. It does cause withdrawals and when going through withdrawals one usually feels worse than they did before taking the drug in the first place. It certainly is not abusable which is one of the components of addiction. However, when going through witdrawals one mught have strong temptations to pop a Prozac to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, i keep going to one of these posts and then getting lost inthese message boards . My question is, is Fluoxertine addictive.? And, do you get the withdrawl effects trying to stop Fluoxertine that you get with Effexor? And, is Fluoxertine Prozac? Thanx.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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