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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by zingaling on January 23, 2004, at 12:02:51
In reply to Re: Quit cold-turkey. Should I start back?, posted by flyingdreams on January 16, 2004, at 15:55:40
I am very grateful for you all and your open-ness and honesty.
I have been on E for about 1.5 yrs - ending with 225mg/day...150 in a.m., 75 at lunch. I have NEVER been impressed with it. I am also on Wellbutrin for last 6 mo. Doc switching E for Lexapro but wean off and clear out from E first. Minus 75mg each week. Am now at zero for 3rd day. W/D is horrid! I've read through all the postings and can second just about every symptom ('cept the "eye-squeeze", thank God). The worst for me the what y'all call the brain shivers/phasing...I've been calling "zings". These would begin sporadically within hours if I was late with a 75mg dose and are now a constant companion. Also used to just be limited to the brain - now goes down to my toes. I remember a time (as a recovering alcoholic) when I might MISTAKENLY think this a "cool buzz"... This plus tearfulness and sleepiness has now caused me to miss 1-1/2 days work. I am glad the weekend looms ahead 'cause I despise the idea of missing any more work - I am impatient with physical illness that way.
Thanks to you all there are a few troublesome situations I have been experiencing that I had no idea the E w/d may be causing. As my body further dispels this poison, I'll pay attention to see if any needs to be addressed by GP. Of particular concern: I don't recall anyone mentioning minor numbness of the limbs and/or extremities when in one position for very long. Has anyone noticed something like this?
I have been reading the postings for hours now, so I cannot focus enough to address anyone specifically. There are a few thoughts I would like to share if you will bear with me:
a) My doc is replacing the E with Lexapro (a sister to Prozac). The plan was to begin the Lexapro after I have been without E for a full week, however, because of the severity of the w/d, I am now laying in wait for the postman to deliver my Lexapro today - she has me beginning it early. I will do my best not rush to attack the man and rip the package from his hand when I see his truck! So this echoes what others have said about Prozac/Lexapro being used for w/d relief. Although, I do not know what would be done if I was not to begin it anyway.
b) Something those of us in this boat of depression need to remember (I am writing this to remind myself as well): Depression has an organic basis, is a physical illness. We often are still bombarded with the undercurrent of prejudice that says our illness is strictly "mental" and we, therefore, "weak" or "less-than". I believe this is why the "shame" happens. If this were the case, then, it would stand to reason that those who who do not suffer with depression are "strong" and/or "mentally healthy". Believe me, I know many who do not have the illness of depression who still could not be considered "mentally healthy" by any stretch of the imagination. Except for times like this - w/d from an A/D, or times when my depression is out of control, I am often can be grateful for this illness. (Again echoing what someone else on this site has said). Because of my depression I have been led to psychotherapy. Because of psychotherapy I have come to explore me and have come to a greater appreciation for the love of others' and the brighter side of humanity. Because of therapy I have been led to become a spiritual seeker in general and a seeker of God. This reveals to me the beauty and purpose of life that my illness tries to strip away and that many never find need to consider.
c) The "organics" of depression: It is also my belief (I can give no scientific quotes - just my belief) that our physical world had been stripped of much that is nutritional and good for our bodies and bombarded with much that is poisonous. That is why vitamins are now recomended when they were once poo-pooh'd for general nutrition. If we are affected by our environment at such a level as general health, then it does not take a leap of faith to comprehend deficiencies in neurotransmitters in our brains due to environmental issues. Increasingly we are unable to biochemically have healthy bodies by existing, eating & drinking. Then there are social and esoteric environmental factors...I, for one, would like to come to the place where I am able to speak of this illness and treatment as openly and honestly as I would talk to others of, say, diabetes. I am sure if I had diabetes and my sugar was out of control causing me to take a sick day, I would feel no guilt or shame. But, alas, I too am victim of the whispering tones used when speaking about depression and am still afraid of the perception of others.
d) I thank whoever it was that said we are responsible for our own treatment and/or health - not our doctor(s). This is one more lesson learned. I am not sure how to put this into practice, however. It was posted by someone that the doctors (supposedly) did not even know of the Effexor side effects. Why not? Did the pharmaceutical companies not know? Why not? Who do we trust and how do we get the truth before the damage is done? Daily we hear of what was thought to be good yesterday is actually bad or vice-versa.
Thank you for letting me speak my peace, my hope is that I have encouraged someone. Also, again thank you for sharing and encouraging me. God bless.
Posted by Dr...Not! on January 23, 2004, at 14:23:53
In reply to MANY THANKS God Bless us, everyone, posted by zingaling on January 23, 2004, at 12:02:51
I'm at 75mg Effexor XR and holding (down from 300mg/day for 8yrs). Debilitating depression has come back, but I refused to increase dosage of Effexor--my withdrawal side effects have spooked me about this drug. My doc has started me on Lexapro 10mg (I've been reading Lexapro Psycho-Babble posts, and thank the Lord for Psycho-Babble!), and wants me to complete my withdrawal from Effexor using Lexapro instead of Prozac as a "withdrawal shield." I sure hope this works. P-B posts seem to indicate that folks starting Lexapro while on other SSRIs do not experience the same severity of Lex's side effects (is there any drug out there that DOESN'T have side effects?).
So, in answer to a) see above; b) me, too; c) agree wholeheartedly; d) they do the best they can with what's available, and we're the guinea pigs! I suppose we should blame the drug companies, but without them we wouldn't have the drugs in the first place.
God bless you all for your posts, and may He bless us with His comfort and strength.
Posted by zingaling on January 27, 2004, at 5:53:23
In reply to Re: MANY THANKS God Bless us, everyone » zingaling, posted by Dr...Not! on January 23, 2004, at 14:23:53
Thanks for the reply Dr...Not! I recall your postings; your journey has been a long and difficult one. I have been encouraged by your determination and sharing. May He give you rest.
Within hours of taking 10mg Lex the brain zapping and body tingling lessened. I thought that was the worst part of the withdrawal despite the tears, sadness and anger. Then I admitted to myself how hopeless I felt. I was in full blown depression, and what a horrible place to be! Sometimes I forget. So I am thankful for the drugs - I guess Effexor did keep me from sinking for a time.
On 15mg of Lexapro now - I am now out of bed for longer periods of time, brushing my teeth, and even styled my hair yesterday. I shovelled some snow, but then that proved too much. Just the thought that I could - actually just NOTICING IT SNOWED - was such a relief. The physical symptoms have lessened immensely, but I know they are lurking just under the blanket of Lex -- I wonder for how long.
I am grateful to P-B and you all. God Bless.
Posted by Dr...Not! on January 27, 2004, at 18:14:11
In reply to Re: MANY THANKS God Bless us, everyone, posted by zingaling on January 27, 2004, at 5:53:23
Depression worsening, so stopped the Lexapro and felt better. (Like banging your head into the wall--it feels so good when you stop!) In addition to the extra depression, was falling asleep and had cramps in my legs! Ugh. I'd better call the shrink and see what she's got for Plan B.
Posted by zingaling on January 28, 2004, at 10:12:44
In reply to Re: MANY THANKS God Bless us, everyone, posted by Dr...Not! on January 27, 2004, at 18:14:11
so sorry to hear that Dr...Not! stopping the Lex made you feel worse? Keep me posted. I'll say special prayers for you.
Posted by Laurajean on February 2, 2004, at 23:59:18
In reply to Re: please be civil » jonathan33, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 23:44:54
Hi there,
I am currently beginning the process of withdrawing from effexor XR. I have been on 300 mg. for about three years and I am experiencing really horrible effects. I am tapering down, but I may not be going slow enough.Is it "normal" to have diarrhea, feverish symptoms, hot flashes, sweats, headache and dizziness? what about insomnia?
Has anyone had success in actually getting OFF this drug? Also, is there anything I can do/take to lessen the effects? I feel soooo awful.
thanks so much,
Laura
Posted by jiggitykid on February 3, 2004, at 7:25:15
In reply to Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by Laurajean on February 2, 2004, at 23:59:18
Your symptoms are TOTALLY normal. They stink, don't they? I went cold-turkey. Others here tapered - it seems it just stretched the withdrawal symptoms out, IMO, but sometimes the symptoms alone are too much. Hang in there, know that what you are experiencing is normal - do some looking in the archives here for the stories of others that might help you. Have your husband/family/friends read some of this so that they understand that what you are going through is withdrawal, and not just "in your head," so that they can have a better grasp on what you are going through. It took about a month before I felt more "normal," but quitting this horrible drug was the BEST decision that I ever made. Know that you are remembered in thoughts and prayers.
Diarrhea, headaches, fatigue, body pain, brain "zaps," irritability, excitablity, sex-drive changes, vision problems (halos, blurriness), nervousness, crazy/vivid dreams, etc.; these are all part of the deal. Take care of yourself!!
Posted by Dr...Not! on February 3, 2004, at 13:41:59
In reply to Re: MANY THANKS God Bless us, everyone » zingaling, posted by Dr...Not! on January 23, 2004, at 14:23:53
Depression only getting worse, so shrink insisted that I increase Effexor XR again. I could hardly think any more, so did as she requested. Am now up to 150mg/day and not as depressed, but am grim about the increased dosage because the Irritable Bowel thing has started up again, as have the stomach pains and sweating. So, depression is less but hopelessness is more (if you understand what I mean). I feel like I'm caught in a tunnel and there's no light at the end of it. Shrink says to keep increasing dosage until my "head" feels OK, but the whole situation just makes me want to lay down and give up. Oh well, one foot in front of the other . . .
Posted by flyingdreams on February 3, 2004, at 14:11:48
In reply to not doing so well, posted by Dr...Not! on February 3, 2004, at 13:41:59
Sounds like you need to make sure you are taking metamucil fiber. Also, investigate taking a different medication! Prozac was easier on my body than Effexor.
Posted by jiggitykid on February 3, 2004, at 14:24:10
In reply to not doing so well, posted by Dr...Not! on February 3, 2004, at 13:41:59
One thing that helped with the IBS for me was one Librax per day while the symptoms were bad. That depends on how your doc feels about this drug, but it helped for me. It stopped the cramping and the pain, and at least made my insides stop feeling like they were jumping around all by themselves.
Posted by Dr...Not! on February 3, 2004, at 14:36:55
In reply to Re: not doing so well, posted by flyingdreams on February 3, 2004, at 14:11:48
I told my shrink about all the Prozac posts, but she did not want me on it because 1) it took too long to kick in and 2) it took too long to get off. You can't fight a doctor's "opinion" when you don't have energy. They call it their "opinion," or their "recommendation," but they won't prescribe anything they don't "recommend." They might as well just say "You are going to take [whatever] because I'm a doctor and you're not." We're sick and desperate, so what can we do about it all, anyway. "Patient rights" are a joke.
Posted by justjustine on February 3, 2004, at 14:43:07
In reply to Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by Laurajean on February 2, 2004, at 23:59:18
yes, i had all these symptoms. i used (and am still using, actually) vicodin. it was the only thing that helped in any real, immediate way.
i'm on week 4 effexor-free. i also recommend acupuncture - i've gone in 3 times in the last week and a half and feel it has helped immensely. i knew an acupuncturist who had experience with drug withdrawals - she hadn't dealt with effexor, but she had seen a lot of my problems in other withdrawal syndromes and i think that helped as well.
be sure to stay hydrated. ginger tea is good for your stomach. pot is better, but you have to take a lot for it to be effective, and that might not agree with you (thank god it agrees with me!). i went from 150 to 75 by myself over 2 months, then agreed with my doctor to go down to 37 for a week then to 0. i really suffered a LOT, but believe it would have only been a long and horrible wait to try to taper down more slowly.
best of luck! you will come out the other side - i'm starting to myself, so i know it's true. and what's even better is when your sex drive comes back - i am having psychedelic orgasms i could never have imagined in my life! it's like i was all numb and now my whole nervous system seems to be rebounding. and the end my tongue is hypersensitive to touch, to the point that i feel like i could almost have an "oral orgasm" - okay that's probably too much information, but it's just what's real!
Posted by jiggitykid on February 3, 2004, at 16:34:06
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by justjustine on February 3, 2004, at 14:43:07
You Wrote:"best of luck! you will come out the other side - i'm starting to myself, so i know it's true. and what's even better is when your sex drive comes back - i am having psychedelic orgasms i could never have imagined in my life! it's like i was all numb and now my whole nervous system seems to be rebounding. and the end my tongue is hypersensitive to touch, to the point that i feel like i could almost have an "oral orgasm" - okay that's probably too much information, but it's just what's real!"
Enjoy it while it lasts. It, too, settles down.
Posted by Laurajean on February 3, 2004, at 22:07:29
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by jiggitykid on February 3, 2004, at 16:34:06
Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for your help w/this.....it's good to know I'm not freaking going crazy! The first time I had any withdrawal symptoms I just missed ONE dose b/c I ran out and I got so horribly sick. It always seemed easier to stay on it than try to come off, but I don't want to be on any drug that messes this much w/my body.Someone mentioned vicodin...did your doc prescribe it or did you have the good fortune of having some around? Is there any other otc stuff u can use to "take the edge off" the symptoms? I might try benadryl and I've been taking ibuprofen.
Also.....this might be a weird question...but i 'm 28; I've been on some form of psychotropic meds (mostly anti-d's) since I was 13. I've had virtually NO sex drive, which I blamed on past trauma. But I am now thinking it could equally be the fact I've on antidepressants since beginning puberty and that at the very least, it hasn't helped! Funny my docs have never been concerned....I am looking forward to seeing what happens as I come off. It will be my first time OFF psych meds in fifteen years! :)
Thanks again,
laura
Posted by jiggitykid on February 4, 2004, at 7:39:51
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by Laurajean on February 3, 2004, at 22:07:29
Bless your heart! Please, do this with caution. I hope you have a good doctor who cares and will listen throughout all of this. As for the sex drive, with me, it came roaring back as I was going through withdrawal. It has settled down (although hubby wishes that it had stayed up!!), and is more "normal," than it has been for years. Every sensation was heightened there for a while. So please, understand that this is what is going on and make decisions carefully. I saw this as a bright spot during the rest of the garbage!! Enjoy, but don't forget to take care of yourself!! :-)
Posted by amanda818 on February 4, 2004, at 9:05:48
In reply to not doing so well, posted by Dr...Not! on February 3, 2004, at 13:41:59
Effexor XR is the 2nd drug I've been on - Paxil being the first, but due to the weight gain, got off that one (50 lbs in less than a year). Withdrawl from Paxil was exactly what everyone said it was, and obviously there is a lot of information about it, however Effexor XR has been different for me. I still have the vertigo (feeling dizzy/having drunk-vision) but something new hit me today - I had the first panick attack I've EVER had! I was sitting in the middle of class and just started... panicking! For no reason! I was not on the meds for panic attacks - so this is the first one I've ever experienced. What do I do? How do I help control them? I can't afford to feel crazy like that in the middle of class! Any advice? (original reason for meds was to control mood swings - had a hard time getting over the little things, but nothing dramatic really, just more like a bad teenager-like response. Was prescribed the first drug by what I now know was a totally incompetent/inexperienced doctor, but being young, I had no idea what to ask. So thus begun my trip, just FYI)
Posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 10:18:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by Laurajean on February 3, 2004, at 22:07:29
hi - i'm the one who has been touting vicodin for effexor withdrawal relief. i had some leftover from a back problem and started with that, then got more from a friend until i could get to my doctor, so i had been taking it for a week already by the time i got into my PCPs office.
i think it really depends on the doctor, and unfortunately i doubt many doctors will be willing to prescribe like this? (i ended up seeing my PCPs partner, and later the PCP got upset that her partner prescribed me the vicodin) seeing as how most don't even believe (or have simply never heard) that there is a horrible, horrible withdrawal syndrome that may be caused by discontinuing effexor.
for me, it helped so much that i was fully prepared to order it online, expense be damned. and if i couldn't have done that i probably would have been reduced to buying in the streets. yes, the withdrawal was that bad, and the vicodin helped that much! thank god i didn't have to go there.
i'm praying for everyone that ever even has to hear about this drug! good luck all!
p.s. i am now working with my psychiatrist, who is refilling my vicodin until i can taper off. i'm also on lots of pot, and ambien at night to sleep. but NO ssri's or other benzo stuff! yay! and i'm getting a new PCP.
> Hi everyone,
> Thank you so much for your help w/this.....it's good to know I'm not freaking going crazy! The first time I had any withdrawal symptoms I just missed ONE dose b/c I ran out and I got so horribly sick. It always seemed easier to stay on it than try to come off, but I don't want to be on any drug that messes this much w/my body.
>
> Someone mentioned vicodin...did your doc prescribe it or did you have the good fortune of having some around? Is there any other otc stuff u can use to "take the edge off" the symptoms? I might try benadryl and I've been taking ibuprofen.
>
> Also.....this might be a weird question...but i 'm 28; I've been on some form of psychotropic meds (mostly anti-d's) since I was 13. I've had virtually NO sex drive, which I blamed on past trauma. But I am now thinking it could equally be the fact I've on antidepressants since beginning puberty and that at the very least, it hasn't helped! Funny my docs have never been concerned....I am looking forward to seeing what happens as I come off. It will be my first time OFF psych meds in fifteen years! :)
>
> Thanks again,
> laura
Posted by Dr...Not! on February 4, 2004, at 11:54:44
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 10:18:48
You've got quite a chemical soup in your body: Effexor, Ambien, Vicodin and pot. Try not to add anything new to the mix until you've maintained a level of stability for a few weeks. If you can, keep a daily journal of your physical and mental condition, so that you can monitor what happens as your dosages change. (That's the one thing I can't seem to do, and it has caused so many problems!)
As for me, I went to see my counsellor today, at the request of my shrink. It wasn't a total waste of time, because the counsellor supported my feelings against the Effexor, and will speak to the shrink about it. The counsellor said there's no reason to continue on a drug that causes me such physical misery and we should have tried a few of the many other drugs on the market. I suppose I should be thankful; however, now that I've had to increase my Effexor dosage, I'll have to go through the withdrawal again. Can you ever win?
Posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help! » justjustine, posted by Dr...Not! on February 4, 2004, at 11:54:44
well, i'm off effexor for nearly 4 weeks now, so count that one out. and i feel my soup is far superior to the klonopin, xanax, serzone, with a vicodin taper (because that is probably inevitable now) and compazine suppositories for the nausea - that's the soup i'd be on now if i was going along with "doctors' wishes."
so that's it - vicodin, ambien, pot. i do keep a journal and am improving consistently both mentally and physically on a daily basis. although the physical withdrawal problems have far, far outweighed any mental ones.
i don't know if i'm winning the war, but i feel like the battle is going pretty well!
> You've got quite a chemical soup in your body: Effexor, Ambien, Vicodin and pot. Try not to add anything new to the mix until you've maintained a level of stability for a few weeks. If you can, keep a daily journal of your physical and mental condition, so that you can monitor what happens as your dosages change. (That's the one thing I can't seem to do, and it has caused so many problems!)
>
> As for me, I went to see my counsellor today, at the request of my shrink. It wasn't a total waste of time, because the counsellor supported my feelings against the Effexor, and will speak to the shrink about it. The counsellor said there's no reason to continue on a drug that causes me such physical misery and we should have tried a few of the many other drugs on the market. I suppose I should be thankful; however, now that I've had to increase my Effexor dosage, I'll have to go through the withdrawal again. Can you ever win?
Posted by jiggitykid on February 4, 2004, at 13:13:44
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 12:12:48
This probably sounds like a stupid question - but when you say pot, do you mean marijuana? That pot? And do you live in a state where it can be prescribed? Just curious - it's not a legal option here :-).
Posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 13:23:05
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by jiggitykid on February 4, 2004, at 13:13:44
yes, cannabis. indica is better for neurological symptoms, more sedating. i'm in california and do have a medical marijuana card. i smoke it, but also vaporize and eat it too.
marijuana is a very different thing when you are using it medically, and in my experience you have to use what seems like a lot for it to work. i'm using at least a gram a day, but it works and i'm okay with the side effects. it's pretty much like anything else - do it enough and you build tolerance to where you don't really get "high" anymore!
sorry to hear it is not legal where you are, having legal access to cannabis has been incredibly helpful in my situation.
> This probably sounds like a stupid question - but when you say pot, do you mean marijuana? That pot? And do you live in a state where it can be prescribed? Just curious - it's not a legal option here :-).
Posted by flyingdreams on February 4, 2004, at 17:40:58
In reply to Re: not doing so well, posted by jiggitykid on February 3, 2004, at 14:24:10
Try Bentyl or it's generic form, both work very well for IBS, if I'm having an attack it stops it. Take for about a week when you have an attack, then stop.
Posted by Ieva on February 17, 2004, at 19:41:39
In reply to Re: Effexor w/d.....ack! Help!, posted by justjustine on February 4, 2004, at 13:23:05
Hey everyone. Just happened to check out this page when I went searching for answers to my latest "weirdness". I went cold-turkey off of Effexor (225mg XR) about 48 hrs ago, (due to my lack of sexual desire, AGAIN!!- having bad luck with SSRI's)and since then I have had the EXTREME itching that a few people mentioned above; I've had this "vertigo-type" feeling every time I stand up or move my head left or right, basically all day; slight nausea and loss of appetite; food tastes different; dizziness.... the list goes on.
I just wanted to express my relief that I finally found out that it WAS from the Effexor. I was beginning to think I was pregnant or had a brain tumor or something. It really is an awful feeling (the vertigo/dizziness thing especially), and I'm looking forward to this going away ASAP. Can anyone tell me when this tapers off at all? It is a shame that DRs don't warn you of the significance of these problems before putting you on Effexor and others.
Also, for those who haven't tried Wellbutrin XR, beware! It is an excellent AD in my opinion, but I had severe headaches for about 2 months before they stopped, and was ready to give up on it. Don't give up! The H/A's do go away and it will be worth it. But again, I had no luck with it's supposed "low" sexual side effects, so I stopped taking it. No W/Ds noted from that to the Effexor, though.
CAN ANYONE RECOMMEND AN ANTIDEPRESSENT WITH LOW SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS THAT REALLY WORKS???
Thanks. Cheer up everyone!! :)
Posted by Clayton on February 17, 2004, at 20:17:59
In reply to Effexor W/D's, Wellbutrin problems, NO SEX DRIVE!, posted by Ieva on February 17, 2004, at 19:41:39
I have excellant results with Remaron with NO sexual side-effects. I had used SSRI's and I know what you're talking aout when refer to loss of libido! (IT's was like this: "Gee, Didn't I used to find womwn interesting in a stimulating and exciting way? Where this that go?).
Posted by jiggitykid on February 17, 2004, at 22:21:20
In reply to Effexor W/D's, Wellbutrin problems, NO SEX DRIVE!, posted by Ieva on February 17, 2004, at 19:41:39
No recommendations for no sexual side effects. They ALL kill mine. As for the tapering of the withdrawal, after about two weeks I realized things were lessening, and about a month later the zaps were pretty much gone. The itchiness didn't last long with me. The vision problems have remained, although not as severe as at first. Good luck!
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