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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 262 to 286 of 1313. Go back in thread:
Posted by Roomy on December 11, 2003, at 6:47:47
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 20:41:30
Hi again, I posted here in the past. I was trying to stop my effexor on my own and failed miserably. I dont even have to explain. You all know. I went to a new doctor and got some help. He had me going one day on 75mg and the next day on 37.5. I went every other day like this for about 20 days. Then I just did the 37.5 every day for about 20 days. and now...any day now...I am supposed to take it every OTHER day until its gone. Has anyone heard of this method? So far...I have had ZERO withdrawl effects! Before when I tried it on my own I wanted to be admitted to a mental home. Any thoughts?
Posted by John2222 on December 11, 2003, at 8:49:38
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Roomy on December 11, 2003, at 6:47:47
That's similar to what I did and is what my dr. reccommended as well. Except that I was told after 2 weeks of every other day, then for 1 or 2 weeks take Effexor one day, skip 2 days and then one day. Then nothing.
I "improvised" on that approach by splitting 7 of the 37.5 XP capsules into two empty gel caps so I had fourteen 18.75 mg Effexor XR capsules. That REALLY helped me.
Also (for Susan), yes Effexor really helped me for the combination depression coupled with anxiety about everything as well. It really settled my brain into a steady state and re-balanced me. I never forgot to take it even once in one and half years, although if I even slept in some and took it an hour later than normal (7 am), I could tell.
*john*
> Hi again, I posted here in the past. I was trying to stop my effexor on my own and failed miserably. I dont even have to explain. You all know. I went to a new doctor and got some help. He had me going one day on 75mg and the next day on 37.5. I went every other day like this for about 20 days. Then I just did the 37.5 every day for about 20 days. and now...any day now...I am supposed to take it every OTHER day until its gone. Has anyone heard of this method? So far...I have had ZERO withdrawl effects! Before when I tried it on my own I wanted to be admitted to a mental home. Any thoughts?
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 12:39:04
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by John2222 on December 11, 2003, at 8:49:38
Hey Roomy :-)
Wonderful to hear that you are getting off of this medication with no withdrawals symptoms. That is incredibly good news and it would be really great if you could keep posting with some updates as you proceed for the benefit of anyone else who needs to stop taking Effexor.
If this is working for you already, don't "improvise", stick with the plan that you have...sort of an if it ain't broke don't fix it approach.
Also, I'm a bit of a zealot about warning people against self-medication (taking doses of things that have not been prescibed, splitting capsules, etc., although splitting tablets or caplets is OK if they have been scored for splitting by the manufacturer). I used to work in the medical field and was shocked by the number of people we admitted who were there because they made a mistakes when self-medicating. If your dr. prescribes 18.75mg, then your pharmacist will split the capsules at no charge to you. But let the pharm. split the capsules because they will do it by weight, not by eye-balling the amount or by counting the grains inside the capsules (the grains all weigh different amounts). I just would not take the chance of self-medicating when it comes to drugs that effect your mental state...it's not worth the risk and it's free to have your pharm. do it for you (at least in Canada & the US).
-Bliss
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 12:47:11
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 12:39:04
"Also, I'm a bit of a zealot about warning people against self-medication"
I self-medicate basically, and it works just fine. I see nothing wrong with doing it when you have the requisite knowledge.
"split the capsules because they will do it by
weight, not by eye-balling the amount or by counting the grains inside the capsules (the grains all weigh different amounts)."The easy solution is to crush all the grains and dissolve them in water (assuming the medication is soluble); then you can measure out an accurate dose.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 13:34:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 12:47:11
It's the "requisite knowledge" that I worry about, not everyone has it. And I always found it very heartbreaking when people ended up in the Anxiety Disorders Unit I worked in because their meds were not working out the way they expected due to the self-medication. If you have the knowledge that's great, use it wisely! But for those who don't it's not something to be taken lightly.
"The easy solution is to crush all the grains and dissolve them in water (assuming the medication is soluble); then you can measure out an accurate dose." This is were that "requisite knowledge" becomes so important. It is water soluable, but the medicinal properties become unstable in water almost immediately and result in a mixture that can not be stored for any length of time because the medication becomes ineffective.
I respect everyone's ability to make their own choices. But for me, if I needed the electricity in my house re-wired, I'd go to an electrician I don't rip it all out and start from scratch myself. Ergo, if I need to reduce my meds or alter their dosage, I go to a pharmacist who has the tools I don't (like scales, etc.) to do it for me.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 14:47:07
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 22:25:34
Can withdrawl from Effexor be as bad as withdrawl from Paxil? My pdoc just started me on Effexor although I have not finished my wean from Paxil (which has been going on for a year now). Each step down on Paxil has been a crash. Am I to expect the same with Effexor? If so, I just won't continue with it.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 14:59:58
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » Blissful_Girl_NOT, posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 14:47:07
Hey jerseydevil :-)
Having had to go through withdrawal from Paxil at one point and more recently, Effexor, yes Effexor withdrawal can be just as bad as Paxil and in my case worse. But....there's always a but...that absolutely does not mean that will be the case for you.
Maybe it would be better to look at the pro's rather than the con's...what I mean is that for some people, Effexor works like magic and is completely worth the possibility of having a difficult withdrawal. Not everyone has withdrawal symptoms from Effexor, but they can rival Paxil's withdrawal problems when you do experience withdrawal problems.
I was on Effexor for over a year, it combatted my anxiety very well, but it actually worsened my depression so I had to stop taking. I've met a number of people who have had amazing success with this drug including some who no longer need it and have successfully gone off of it without any problems at all.
If you're going to give up on this med...it might be wiser to give up on it if it doesn't work, rather than give up on it because you "might" have problems withdrawing from it.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 15:06:58
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 14:59:58
Sound advice. Better sane and potentially sexually handicapped, and possibly having withdrawl problems in the future, than Depressed and still lacking the right cocktail today? I still have 7.5mg of Paxil to fight before I am free of that beast. But change can be good.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 15:06:58
OK...your response made me smile...whether you meant it to or not!
I'll be honest I did not have ANY negative sexual side effects with the Effexor...nothing like the dead zone I felt I was in with Paxil. It did take a little longer than usual acheiving an initial orgasm...but it didn't stop me from having a sex drive or from being able to enjoy that drive ;-)
But seriously...there have been times when my anxiety was so all consuming, and the depression so dark that I felt like I'd have willingly forgone ever having sex again just to feel well again. Fortunately, Effexor did not steal my sex drive...which being a woman at the peak of my sexuality, that would have just added to the anxiety and depression! I'm now learning that it is possible to be well without having to sacrifice all of the things that make being a part of this crazy existence worthwhile.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 16:01:03
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
Smiling is good. Thanks for the feedback. I have no desire to go through "the dead zone" again. Nor do I want to hide under the bullet proof sheets when my head is racing. But most of all, I cannot afford to have another Big Crash. I guess I will try the new cocktail and try to keep the new meds at low doses.
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
Paxil is poison. It makes you feel dopey, impotent and the withdrawal is horrendous. They really should take it off the market, IMO. One should try MAOIs or stimulants before Paxil is even considered.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 16:09:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
I agree. If I survive getting off of Paxil completely, I may initiate the class-action in New Jersey (there already is one in California). So it sounds like while withdrawl from Effexor may be bad, it is the lessor of two "evils". Although, if I have sexual side effects with Effexor, I'm weaning off it. I may be in my mid-life crisis years, but I like sex and think it is good for self-esteem issues.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 16:12:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
I'd have to agree...Paxil can be nasty stuff. The problem I had was that it really did not even begin to touch the anxiety problem that it was prescribed for...and in fact the complete loss of sex drive and being able to have orgasms made me even MORE anxious!
My sister takes it and actually likes it and says it works well for her but...again always with the buts...she has been trying for almost a year to be weaned off of it without success (she still is on a very small dose, but the minute that small dose is not taken the withdrawal symptoms kick up, she's ended up in hospital twice because of it).
It never ceases to amaze me how many of the drugs for treating anxiety, dpression, etc., are handed out by docs like candy without ever really discussing what your life is going to be like once you're on them...or god forbid...once you have to go off of them.
-Bliss
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:44:59
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 16:12:16
"It never ceases to amaze me how many of the drugs for treating anxiety, dpression, etc., are handed out by docs like candy without ever really discussing what your life is going to be like once you're on them...or god forbid...once you have to go off of them."
ADs are the modern laudanum: they're handed out for anything and everything. And if you try to give many of them up, you run into the same problem as laudanum. We don't know enough about the longterm effects of these drugs to use them so readily. I'm beginning to think that stimulants should be a first-line treatment for depression; amphetamine's been with us for 100+ years, and we know far more about it than any modern AD.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:12:51
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
> Paxil is poison.
Please don't exaggerate. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by theo on December 11, 2003, at 19:17:34
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » Blissful_Girl_NOT, posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 14:47:07
Effexor was 10 times worse than Paxil. My pdoc said he just attended a meeting and Effexor was ranked the highest withdrawal AD.
Posted by theo on December 11, 2003, at 19:20:44
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
Along with Effexor
Posted by CrazyMe on December 11, 2003, at 23:29:50
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 13:34:23
I am a 38-year-old unemployed college educated single mother. As of 10:30pm today it has been 96 hours since my last effexor. I took the taper down route. First I tapered myself down from 150 on the XR's to 35.5 on the non-xr, then I was cutting the 37.5 tablets in half and wondering why I felt so odd (and awful) less than 24 hours later. Even though I am unemployed and without health insurance I finally talked myself into going to see my doctor and she educated me.
I learned that the tablets are not time release so they were dropping out of my system that much faster causing me to suffer from SSRI discontinuation syndrome that much sooner. She gave me a few weeks worth of 37.5XR samples and instructed me to go back on the 37.5 once a day for at least a week, then to go every other day for a week or two, then to stop.
I followed these instructions right up until I discovered that going every other day wasn't as easy as it sounded. The first couples of doses were not too difficult but in retrospect I imagine I still had somewhat of a backlog of the meds in my system buffering me. After that I barely made it 36 hours and then 24 again.
Desperately I turned to the Internet. I looked up SSRI discontinuation syndrome and it's treatments. Unfortunately the all around recommended treatment appears to be to go back on whatever medicine you are quitting which isn't what I wanted to do. A recently released study suggests that a B vitamin deficiency can cause or increase depression so I decided to add that to my regimen. Further research suggested that the addition of amino acids would also be helpful. So I added that too. Another article suggested that Sam-e and 5-htp were beneficial so I added that as well.
So as of 96 hours ago that’s what I was doing.
- 400 mg Sam-e first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.
- 50 mg 5-htp half an hour to an hour later with food.
- 37.5 mg effexor whenever the last one ran out.
- 1 B-Formula with C multivitamin,
- 3 natural multi-amino acid gel caps,
- 10 mg ambien, and
- 100 mg metoprolol (for my blood pressure) at bedtime.But I still felt awful. Shocks, dizziness, nausea, hot flashes, other flu like symptoms. A trip to the pharmacy first thing in the morning, wait patiently outside for the pharmacist to open the door. I've already got Dramamine and some seasickness acupressure cuffs in my hands (got to stop this dizziness and nausea!) I tell the pharmacist that I've got SSRI discontinuation syndrome and ask him if what I have in my hands will help. Yes he says, that and Benedryl. Really? Benedryl? Yes he says, but it might make you drowsy. Not a problem I say, if I can sleep through this, all the better.
I make my purchases and choke down a Dramamine and a Benedryl in the car and head home where I put on the acupressure cuffs (ouch those are tight!) and fall back into bed. Do they work? I dunno, but I took them off after sleeping for a hour or so because my hands were swelling a little and they were uncomfortable. A while later I woke up with that pulsing in my ears and a feeling of vertigo. I hastily slipped them back on and I swear I felt the vertigo fade away.
I have been taking everything on it’s recommended schedule ever since. Except the effexor. My memory is terrible so I made an excel spreadsheet to track what I was taking and when and the times and days of the effects I was feeling. According to the spreadsheet the last effexor I took was December 7, 2003 at 10:30 pm.
I’m still experiencing some mild shocks and some whooshing in my ears but I think I can deal with it with the help of everything else. I had a screaming fit of frustrated rage today, no doubt brought on by a combination of a stupid search engine on an Internet job board, the general facts of my life, the effexor withdrawal and the fact that I started my period today.
I expect the next week to be rocky, but I also expect it to get better. I was full of trepidation when I reached that 48 hour mark and decided to just keep going but I think I’m gonna make it. I hope this information will help some of you. I know that your trials certainly helped (are helping) me through mine.
Good luck to everyone!
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 23:58:51
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor » Blissful_Girl_NOT, posted by CrazyMe on December 11, 2003, at 23:29:50
Greetings CrazyMe :-)
Reading your post I couldn't help but think that you sound alot like me...except that I'm over 2 weeks off of Effexor and feeling pretty great physically. Shocks, dizziness, nausea, hot flashes, other flu like symptoms...all gone. Well, honestly the shocks still happen very mildly when I'm over tired but they are really very mild. You will get past this point and be all the stronger for it.
Don't know if this helps you much, but consider yourself virtually hugged...getting off this drug was one of the toughest things I've ever gone through and finding this board and realizing that others were going through or had already gone through the same thing made a world of difference for me.
Take care of yourself...it sounds like you're trying hard to do that, so stick with it!
-Bliss
Posted by CrazyMe on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 23:58:51
I think I saw a virtual hug displayed once as <<HUGS>>.
Thank you and I hope to be where you are by...Christmas! What a gift!
Posted by Jasamigo on December 12, 2003, at 2:31:38
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
I have been taking effexor for the past 9 months and I am ready to stop. I told my doctor that I cannot handle the terrible side effects. I take 225mg a day, and when I miss one day's worth, I start to freak out. First of all, I end up sleeping 20 hours+, wake up in a panic, and find myself feeling very alone. I start crying, basically just because my mind tells me it is the right thing to do. I cry and cry until--well i just continue crying. I cannot function. I can't go to work, or school. I just have to sit in bed for the next 24 hours until it goes away. I live alone, but when I have withdrawl, I have to go to my parents house. I cannot be alone. I make my mother stay home from work and sit in the room with me. I cry if she leaves. I have no idea why-- i have never been a "home-sick" sort of person. I get these vicious domino-effect anxieties about life and dying and love and not having a husband and not have kids and being sick and feeling alone and dying alone. And, thus, it just spirals out of control. It is a very upsetting feeling when I dont have a dose of Effexor, not to mention nauseating. Has anyone every experienced the feeling like a sheet of saran-wrap is in front of your eyes? Like, everything is fuzzy and no matter how hard you try, your vision is scratchy. Anyways, I cannot wait to get off of this medicine. Tomorrow I start decreasing. I am worried.
Jennifer
Posted by CrazyMe on December 12, 2003, at 7:13:49
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Jasamigo on December 12, 2003, at 2:31:38
Yes, saran wrap over the eyes and cotton in the ears - everything muffled, set away from you a small distance putting you inside a bubble.It's a true feeling of being out of touch.
Posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 12:03:49
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 14:45:09
> > It's not very scientific to open the capsule and dump out say approx one half of the beads, but I've done it successfully to make up capsules of 1/2 of 37.5 which is about 19 mg.
> >
> > I bought a big bag for $5 or $6 of the empty gel caps from the health food store to split them up. But you can just dump half out if you aren't as thifty as I was.
> >
> > I stayed on 19 for several weeks when tapering off and it helped.
> >
> > The 3rd day of none was the worst, but it got better. And going from 19 to 0 is better than going from 37.5 to zero.
> >
> > *john*
> > > Does anyone know if it's safe to open the capsules and take out a few grains of medicine the way I did? Or is the pharmacist that pours the drugs smarter than I'm thinking s/he is?
> > >
> > > Impatient for my pdoc appt this Friday...
> >
> >
>
>
Well, I finally got an appt with my new pdoc (since I just moved to this part of the country), and what he advised me has me a little worried. He told me that since my first attempt to get off this was so horrible, that taking out 5 granules a week *is* probably the only way I'll be able to get off this and still function.He also prescribed me Lexapro and said I should start taking that before starting the taper. I said I wanted to make a go of things unmedicated for a while, but he said that would probably be unwise.
Does anyone out there with more knowledge than me think this guy knows what he's talking about? Is it ok to take Lexapro while still on Effexor? Thanks in advance.
I haven't posted here much, but reading all these posts definitely makes me feel like I'm not alone in all this. Thanks to everyone.
-- jeeno
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 12, 2003, at 12:34:03
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 12:03:49
Hi :-)
Well, I've never been on Lexapro (I'd check out some of the threads about it on this board though to give you some insight), but my doc had me switch to Remeron at exactly the same time I stopped the Effexor. The Effexor withdrawals were still bad, but the Remeron at least didn't seem to make matters worse.
I just saw a new pdoc on Wednesday...during this bout of anxiety/depression/stress it has been my regular doc who prescribed the Effexor. Both my regular doc & my pdoc told me that the standard practice (in Canada at least) now is to prescribe a single dose of Prozac to any patient who is going off of Effexor. The Prozac is taken on Day 2 or 3 of withdrawal depending on how bad your symptoms are.
Both docs had just recently read an article (I'm trying to track it down) that showed that tapering and cold turkey withdrawal of Effexor produce the SAME results in people who are predisposed to having withdrawal problems from this med. In otherwords, neither method worked better than the other. My pdoc wryly commented that tapering just seemed to draw out the same withdrawal problems over a longer period of time.
Another thing my pdoc did was sit down with me and go over the (very long) list of AD's and anxiety meds I've been off and on over the past 15 years. The drugs have worked sometimes, but eventually they all either stop working for me, or become to difficult to stay on because of side effects. His point of doing this review was to say that maybe I need to look to something other than just medication to heal myself, so rather than up my Remeron, or add some new RX to the mix, he upped my visits with him. He looked me right in the eye and said "After 15 years of medication yoyo-ing we're going to try something new, we're going to talk about whats bothering you."
He's given me books to read and workbooks with excercises that I will need to do as "homework". I'm still on Remeron, and I have no idea if this "talk therapy" is going to help, but it is definitely not going to hurt. I have a long history of this type of illness in my family. I have no doubt in my mind that some of my problem is chemical imbalance...but I also no longer have any doubt that some of my problem is that I have not learned how to COPE with this illness. I've been chasing that magic pill that is going to "fix" everything for 15 years...and while I've found lots of bandaid pills, I've found no cures. I think I'll start looking inside myself for that.
Thanks for letting me rant...Jeeno I know that didn't answer your question...but think about this: If your instincts are making you question anything about the course of your treatment, listen to those instincts and ask questions, lots of questions and look for options...lots of options. Getting you off of Effexor should not be about finding you another AD (Lexapro) to go on.
-Bliss
Posted by jenneh on December 12, 2003, at 15:49:40
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 16:08:36
Hye there
Ok that is just weird = I just passed the bar too! In Canada) Anyways, I know what you're saying about people thinking its rational to feel this way considering our choice of careers. However, what they dont realize is that (at least for me) even with major things to focus on, I still gt fixated and obsessive about stupidity. Ack!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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