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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:23:09
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » poop'd-out, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 14:12:54
I am unipolar meaning no mania, just plain old depression. I have taken all of the newer AD's and after 12 years, none of them were effective until I took lamictal with prozac and remeron. I am weaning off the remeron and hopefully, the prozac also and be on only lamictal. It was in my 6th week on 200 mgs did I feel the dramatic lifting of my depression. Now into my 7 week at 300mgs, it is even more dramatic. I am my old self again. Thank goodness for the internet because that is how I found out about lamictal for treatment resistant depression. Lamictal was only prescribed as an anti-seizure med until they discovered it worked great for the treatment resistant depression. So, hang in there until 200mgs. It is worth the wait. Take care.
Flipsactown
> Hi,
> I actually started it when I was on Depakote. and dep. doubles the effect. I always had a zippy feeling at each increase, but then it leveled off. When I was at 50mg of Lamictal (so like 100mg of lam.) and still on Dep. I felt as even as I have been - not perfect, but better.
> I got off of Depakote about two weeks ago and essentially my levels fell to 50mg. I had a rough rough time for about 10 days. It was when I upped it to 100mg (where I am now) did I feel a lift. I was falling fast there at 50mg. Now I'm ok - in a few weeks, I'd like to up it to 112.5 and see what happens. I still get tired a lot and can feel the depression right at my back. if when I up it to 112.5 I feel much better than I'll know that there WAS room for improvement. For now, I'm at 100mg and functioning in the world and feel altogether ok and better than I have in a very very long time. Are you bipolar or unipolar? I'm bp II. If you're bipolar, maybe the zoloft is making you feel like crap.
> katia
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:23:09
Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:35:42
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
Katia,
Check out this link regarding lamictal.
http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htmFlipsactown
> Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
> My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
> katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:46:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
I also pursued my pdoc to prescribe it to me. I am with Kaiser and this is the first time that I had to sign a waiver regarding the sometimes fatal rash. I think they were trying to discourage me in my quest for lamictal. You know, it is kind of funny because when I first took lamictal, I was looking at my arms, legs and, actually my entire body, for the rash every 5 seconds. I read that the rash can manifest itself even at 6 months, so we aren't entirely out of the woods yet, but I am out of the depression, hopefully for you also. Later.
Flipsactown
> Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
> My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
> katia
Posted by linnette on November 13, 2003, at 17:31:24
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:46:26
Hello all,
Just wanted to give you and all an update.. I am somewhat new here, and I read the posts as often as I can. I never know whether to start my own post, or whether to add to a thread. I don't want to butt in, and hope it doesn't appear that way. I have been trying to keep up on all of your posts, and I hope I am not sounding self-absorbed by writing this.
I am now at 200 mg of lamictal and I notice the irritability thing for a few days when I go up on my dose. I am completely off the zoloft, and the nortriptyline, but have had to add back a bit of neurontin (only 300 mg/day) for the anxiety and sleep. I was on neurontin before, but at much higher doses, and it made me sort of stupid, but the combo seems to be working well this time. It helps with the sleep I notice.
Last week was a real emotional roller coaster, then had about 4 good days, but am now in a funk. I am hoping that it subsides and is just part of washing the other meds from my system. But when I feel this way, I just cry and cry and I think about every "bad, awful or stupid" thing that I have ever done, as well as a tremendous amount of guilt that I know is out of proportion to what I am ruminating about. I find that a lot of my feelings are tied up in my past behaviors while either hypomanic or depresses.
I also feel as though I may never get stable. I am in a mixed state right now. I can have tons of energy and get things done, during which time I can hear a song or something will set me off and I will just be in tears. I am hoping that this subsides as my dose of lamictal kicks in. It may not be such a bad thing to get sad, but I notice sometimes that something will set me off, and it just goes from there.
On the flip side, on a GOOD day I notice increased energy, sleeping less (although I should be sleeping more, as my sleep patterns dictate my moods a lot) my appetite is better, (I don't care about food much when I was depressed or hypomanic). I am thinking much clearer. I seem to be getting my usual interests back also, like listening to music for instance. I am praying that these good effects are not the result of coming off of the other meds.
Also if I am late on my dose I get very irritable and/or teary. I am finding that alcohol, even glass of wine is out of the question. As is caffeine. It will usually send me into a tailspin. I can do without both though.
My question is how long it takes for a therapeutic dose to kick in? I have now been at 200 mg for only a week. I have been on the lamictal since September 8th. Is it better to split your dose or take it all at once. Not sure about the half-life of lamictal, do you know?
Anyway, take care all, and wishing good things to all. Thank you all for your input...I try to read the posts every couple days.
linette
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 17:58:17
In reply to lamictal update and questions, posted by linnette on November 13, 2003, at 17:31:24
I am finishing my 7th week of lamictal. It was in my 6th week at 200mgs where I noticed a dramatic lifting of my depression and now, in my 7th week, I am feeling even better. Generally, the therapeutic dose of lamictal starts at 200mgs and as high as 500mgs. Later.
Flipsactown
> Hello all,
>
> Just wanted to give you and all an update.. I am somewhat new here, and I read the posts as often as I can. I never know whether to start my own post, or whether to add to a thread. I don't want to butt in, and hope it doesn't appear that way. I have been trying to keep up on all of your posts, and I hope I am not sounding self-absorbed by writing this.
>
> I am now at 200 mg of lamictal and I notice the irritability thing for a few days when I go up on my dose. I am completely off the zoloft, and the nortriptyline, but have had to add back a bit of neurontin (only 300 mg/day) for the anxiety and sleep. I was on neurontin before, but at much higher doses, and it made me sort of stupid, but the combo seems to be working well this time. It helps with the sleep I notice.
>
> Last week was a real emotional roller coaster, then had about 4 good days, but am now in a funk. I am hoping that it subsides and is just part of washing the other meds from my system. But when I feel this way, I just cry and cry and I think about every "bad, awful or stupid" thing that I have ever done, as well as a tremendous amount of guilt that I know is out of proportion to what I am ruminating about. I find that a lot of my feelings are tied up in my past behaviors while either hypomanic or depresses.
>
> I also feel as though I may never get stable. I am in a mixed state right now. I can have tons of energy and get things done, during which time I can hear a song or something will set me off and I will just be in tears. I am hoping that this subsides as my dose of lamictal kicks in. It may not be such a bad thing to get sad, but I notice sometimes that something will set me off, and it just goes from there.
>
> On the flip side, on a GOOD day I notice increased energy, sleeping less (although I should be sleeping more, as my sleep patterns dictate my moods a lot) my appetite is better, (I don't care about food much when I was depressed or hypomanic). I am thinking much clearer. I seem to be getting my usual interests back also, like listening to music for instance. I am praying that these good effects are not the result of coming off of the other meds.
>
> Also if I am late on my dose I get very irritable and/or teary. I am finding that alcohol, even glass of wine is out of the question. As is caffeine. It will usually send me into a tailspin. I can do without both though.
>
> My question is how long it takes for a therapeutic dose to kick in? I have now been at 200 mg for only a week. I have been on the lamictal since September 8th. Is it better to split your dose or take it all at once. Not sure about the half-life of lamictal, do you know?
>
> Anyway, take care all, and wishing good things to all. Thank you all for your input...I try to read the posts every couple days.
>
> linette
Posted by Dalilah on November 13, 2003, at 20:49:04
In reply to Re: lamictal update and questions » linnette, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 17:58:17
Hey Linette,
I found some improvement in mood after one to two weeks at 200mg. But I went up to 225 and really noticed a difference. I'm now at 275. I've been steady for 3 months or so, which is unheard of.Also I cannot take even a bit of caffiene. I don't think it's the Lamictal. I think it's the bipolar??
-Dalilah
> I am finishing my 7th week of lamictal. It was in my 6th week at 200mgs where I noticed a dramatic lifting of my depression and now, in my 7th week, I am feeling even better. Generally, the therapeutic dose of lamictal starts at 200mgs and as high as 500mgs. Later.
>
> Flipsactown
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Just wanted to give you and all an update.. I am somewhat new here, and I read the posts as often as I can. I never know whether to start my own post, or whether to add to a thread. I don't want to butt in, and hope it doesn't appear that way. I have been trying to keep up on all of your posts, and I hope I am not sounding self-absorbed by writing this.
> >
> > I am now at 200 mg of lamictal and I notice the irritability thing for a few days when I go up on my dose. I am completely off the zoloft, and the nortriptyline, but have had to add back a bit of neurontin (only 300 mg/day) for the anxiety and sleep. I was on neurontin before, but at much higher doses, and it made me sort of stupid, but the combo seems to be working well this time. It helps with the sleep I notice.
> >
> > Last week was a real emotional roller coaster, then had about 4 good days, but am now in a funk. I am hoping that it subsides and is just part of washing the other meds from my system. But when I feel this way, I just cry and cry and I think about every "bad, awful or stupid" thing that I have ever done, as well as a tremendous amount of guilt that I know is out of proportion to what I am ruminating about. I find that a lot of my feelings are tied up in my past behaviors while either hypomanic or depresses.
> >
> > I also feel as though I may never get stable. I am in a mixed state right now. I can have tons of energy and get things done, during which time I can hear a song or something will set me off and I will just be in tears. I am hoping that this subsides as my dose of lamictal kicks in. It may not be such a bad thing to get sad, but I notice sometimes that something will set me off, and it just goes from there.
> >
> > On the flip side, on a GOOD day I notice increased energy, sleeping less (although I should be sleeping more, as my sleep patterns dictate my moods a lot) my appetite is better, (I don't care about food much when I was depressed or hypomanic). I am thinking much clearer. I seem to be getting my usual interests back also, like listening to music for instance. I am praying that these good effects are not the result of coming off of the other meds.
> >
> > Also if I am late on my dose I get very irritable and/or teary. I am finding that alcohol, even glass of wine is out of the question. As is caffeine. It will usually send me into a tailspin. I can do without both though.
> >
> > My question is how long it takes for a therapeutic dose to kick in? I have now been at 200 mg for only a week. I have been on the lamictal since September 8th. Is it better to split your dose or take it all at once. Not sure about the half-life of lamictal, do you know?
> >
> > Anyway, take care all, and wishing good things to all. Thank you all for your input...I try to read the posts every couple days.
> >
> > linette
>
>
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:42:56
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:46:26
Hi,
I'm under the impression that if you don't get the rash within the first two or three weeks, the chances of getting go down. Is that correct? I hope so.I'm not so sure 100mg is working for me. I've taken a big dive today. Just feel exhausted again and a zombie in agony. I'm sick of this.
From what I'm seeing, every increase I have, the lift lasts about 4-5 days and then I crash again. Will it ever "stick"????
I understand why I drank. AT LEAST IT HELPS!
katia
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:49:10
In reply to Re: lamictal update and questions, posted by Dalilah on November 13, 2003, at 20:49:04
What happens when you take the caffeine? I love the buzz; I have a cuppa coffee every morning. It's the only thing I look forward to. I'm just wondering if it's responsible for some crash and burn mood swings?
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:53:18
In reply to lamictal update and questions, posted by linnette on November 13, 2003, at 17:31:24
>>and I hope I am not sounding self-absorbed by writing this.
** Not at all. it's what we do here, tell our stories.
> Last week was a real emotional roller coaster, then had about 4 good days, but am now in a funk. I am hoping that it subsides and is just part of washing the other meds from my system. But when I feel this way, I just cry and cry and I think about every "bad, awful or stupid" thing that I have ever done, as well as a tremendous amount of guilt that I know is out of proportion to what I am ruminating about. I find that a lot of my feelings are tied up in my past behaviors while either hypomanic or depresses.
>
> I also feel as though I may never get stable. I am in a mixed state right now. I can have tons of energy and get things done, during which time I can hear a song or something will set me off and I will just be in tears. I am hoping that this subsides as my dose of lamictal kicks in. It may not be such a bad thing to get sad, but I notice sometimes that something will set me off, and it just goes from there.**I think we're in the same boat. and I want off!
>>I am finding that alcohol, even glass of wine is out of the question. As is caffeine. It will usually send me into a tailspin. I can do without both though.**What happens with the wine? And what happens with the coffee?
> My question is how long it takes for a therapeutic dose to kick in? I have now been at 200 mg for only a week. I have been on the lamictal since September 8th. Is it better to split your dose or take it all at once. Not sure about the half-life of lamictal, do you know?
>**ALL my questions too. I think the "therapeutic" dose is different for everyone. But what do I know? I'm just dimwitted depressed dork!
katia
Posted by linnette on November 14, 2003, at 0:19:24
In reply to Re: lamictal update and questions » Dalilah, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:49:10
hi katia,
thanks for sharing..it does sound like we are both in the same boat.
When I was on lamictal last year I would drink coffee, (strong coffee) in the am. Within an hour I would just feel as though I were in a tunnel, and become confused and very aggitated.
I was also on 125 mg of zoloft at the time, and my pdoc pulled me off the lamictal, even though I knew it was working.In hindsight and since being off the zoloft and revisiting the lamictal, I noticed right away the same disorientation when I had coffee. So I figure it was the coffee and not the lamictal, nor the zoloft causing this strange interraction.
I also love coffee, so what I do is lately is mix my coffee beans (2/3 decaf and 1/3 caffeinated) and so far, I am able to tolerate it. But that has only been within the last 2 weeks.. Most of the last 2 months, I have been doing decaff..
And alcohol just seems to make me depressed even small amounts. But prior to lamictal, wine was the only thing that could calm me, and I have never had more than a couple wines, but presently I've not been able to do that.
hope this helps ..
take care
linnette
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 0:52:26
In reply to Re: lamictal update and questions, posted by linnette on November 14, 2003, at 0:19:24
We have different experiences with substances. coffee gets me buzzy feeling.
and alcohol on too many occasions I've had more than a "couple". it's the best thing Iv'e had so far that makes me feel better. just wish I could get the righ med to replace it as I'm off that now too. coffee's my only vice now and chocolate.
What's your dx?
katia
Posted by poop'd-out on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:54
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » poop'd-out, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 14:12:54
Hi katia,Thanks for answering so quickly. Being on the tegretol does the exact opposite of the depakote. It halves the lamictal, so if I am on 62mg then I am really only on 31mg, these meds can be so weird. I still need to go slow because I did have some skin reactions etc. nothing major just enough for my doc to want to take it slow. So who really knows how much lamictal I am on.
As for my dx(diagnosis?), we have really wavered back and forth with this one. I could be unipolar but we suspect that I am BPII. The reasoning is that in no way shape or form am I able to take an antidepressant without a mood stabilizer, it completely wacks me out. Rage, disorientation, paranoia, anxiety... and so on. Basically, they make me worse. If I am BPII, I believe that mania shows up as anger, rage, irritability, and am mostly on the depressed end of the spectrum. I think I read a post of yours back that sounded similar to what I experience. I have never truly found anything that really works for me.
Oh, by the way why did you discontinue the depakote? You sounded like you were doing well with the lam and dep together.
I don't know if the zoloft is bad I seemed to be tolerating it alright prior to the lam. If the lam starts kicking in then we(my doc) will talk about reducing some of my other meds. That would be nice.
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:22:14
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 11:01:30
>>So, I will continue with the Lam, despite the SEVERE insomnia I am having.
**I've had insomnia my entire life. I take Ambien and that helps alot but I have to stop taper down occasionally since I get tolerant. I've tried all kinds of natural sleep aids and they really don't do anything much unless I'm already ready to knock off and then they add an extra measure of relaxation. Sometimes I take 900 mg of Neurontin and as long as I take it only ocasionally it really mellows me out.
When I'm going through a rough time or feel extra depressed I'll have crappy sleep the night through and wake up every few hours. I feel beat up in the morning like I've been holding my body clenched. Probably because I have.
>>My pdoc is out of town and I had to try whatever will get me some zzzz's.
**I might have asked you this, but have you ever tried Trazodone? It really worked for sleep. I had to give it up though because it can make you feel real woozey in the morning and I was having to get up real early for work. But once I had a shower and was up for 1/2 hour it wore off. I guess I was also starting to have symptoms of fibromyalgia and couldn't afford any extra lethargy or dullness.
>
> I asked Katia this too but do you know if you can decrease the Lam. at a faster rate than when you increase??**The danger is with the rash thing when going up too quickly. There shouldn't be any problems reducing it more quickly than going up but as you know, you might get some rebound depression if you go too low too quickly. I had to decrease Lam by 50mg in two weeks because I was getting awfully itchy and was afraid it was the rash. But it wasn't. Everytime I try to go up past 125mg the itchies start again. Luckily I seem to be holding at that level along with 600mg Lithium (I don't care what anyone says - God bless lithium).
How am I doing? Pretty well, thanks. I had a bump last week and was feeling low and slightly ill. But I'm training myself to just be with feelings that are less than desirable by softening instead of defending against them. As long as I'm in a relatively coherent state of mind I can trust that, like the weather, my feelings will eventually change. I guess I'm practicing tolerating lesser discomfort while I can with a mind towards being ready for greater discomfort when it arises, like being mentally buff. I know I can handle anything that life dishes out, but I don't always remember this when I'm not thinking clearly. Then, everything seems like a disaster - like what to wear or if I should buy the can of chopped vs. whole olives. That one had me sobbing in the aisles of my food co-op. Luckily the manager understood depression and was very sweet to me. But I've always managed to muddle through anyway and I figure I probably always will. If I don't, I don't and so I practice not worrying about it when I'm able. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:40:06
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 15:28:58
Hi Katia,
> you mentioned that if you take sleeping pills, then you don't get the REM sleep, right? What if you take something like Seroquel or Trazadone (an antipsychotic or antidepressant), do you or anyone else know if this allows for a healthy night's sleep?**I've never taken Seroquel but have been interested in it. I guess the reasons I haven't pursued it is hearing it can pack on the pounds. I'm just getting back to a good weight after years and phobic about anything pork-o-genic. Also, I remember reading that it caused grogginess in the morning and sometimes for a few hours afterwards and that's why I stopped Trazodone. It helped me fall asleep great but it was hard to wake up.
Ambien has been the best sleep med for me. It doesn't always work if I'm really wound up (I take 3 Neurontin during those times) and eventually loses its punch. I cut back and lose sleep for a few nights but then it perks up again. Restoril has helped also. Ambien seems to have the best track record for reaching Stage IV sleep, at least better than the other ones. I also really appreciate the fact that it doesn't affect waking up at all. I don't even know I've taken it the next morning and that's the only sleeper I can say that about. The only drawback is that it's expensive and many healthplans balk at covering it.
> Just curious, because I'd like to get some tranquilizers for sleep.
**Just so you know, tranqs can cause depression. So can Ambien and if you stop you're gonna get bad rebound insomnia for a few nights. But criminy, a girl's gotta get her beauty rest. - Barbara
> katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:51:52
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » seamus o'noolan, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 19:12:47
Hi,
> I have been on 200mgs of lamictal going on 7 weeks. I started with 25mgs. I am also on 100mgs prozac and 22.5mgs of remeron.**I was on Remeron when I first started lithium and later lamictal. I had good results with Rem at first and then it did the old poop out routine and I got up to 90mg at one point. Too high and it didn't work. This was before I realized I was bipolar which made sense since none of the ADs worked for long. Well, my lithium/lamictal didn't really start working until I gave up the Rem. I was even down to only 7.5mg at one point thinking it was helping me sleep, but it was just causing the lingering anxiety I associate with ADs. I noticed great improvement once I stopped. Luckily, Remeron is the easiest of the ADs to wean off.
If you're Bipolar, you probably know that ADs can be very bad news. I've heard of some cases where combining a mood stabilizer with a small dose of Prozac or Zoloft helps, but these cases are in the minority. I have heard that WB is the way to go as far as the non-bipolar meds, but like Katia mentioned, WB and Lamictal can be activating. But for some folks, that's a plus. Honestly, the sooner you jettison the Remeron the better. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 2:11:22
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 20:24:18
> I am unipolar. I have been diagnosed as clinically depressed since 1991 due to chronic low back pain from a traffic accident. Prozac was great for relieving my depression and so was zoloft. I rotated between prozac and zoloft but as you probably have read or experienced they eventually poop out. Lamictal hopefully won't poop out. Does anyone have any experience whether lamictal poops out or not?
>
**In my experience it doesn't poop out the way we associate pooping out with SSRIs. I've been at my 125mg lam and 600mg lithium for 6 months. Prior to that I was at 75mg lam for over a year and it was holding steady until I had some very difficult stresses that destabilized me. BTW, even if you're not bipolar the word is that lithium/lamictal are excellent taken together. I find it a wonderful combo and have not had much success with either alone.With Lam, you eventually reach a steady state but until you get there you know after a few weeks/months or so when you need to go higher in dose because you'll start feeling icky again.
With every increase there's a zippy little lift, verging on perky hypomania but then it subsides and becomes more centered. It's kinda like that first rush of being in love. Very heady and bubbly and fun but it sure can wear you down and leave you longing for some R&R. - Barbara
Posted by Flipsactown on November 14, 2003, at 8:41:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 23:42:56
That is probably true, however, I read in a different website of a person getting the rash at 6 months. It varies from person to person because we all react differently. You probably need a higher dose because generally speaking, the theraputic dose of lamictal starts at 200mgs to 500mgs. Hang in there since you are only at 100mgs. As far as it "sticking", I have read from another forum of people still feeling depression free at 3 years, so hopefully, it will "stick" at least for a couple of years.
Flipsactown
> Hi,
> I'm under the impression that if you don't get the rash within the first two or three weeks, the chances of getting go down. Is that correct? I hope so.
>
> I'm not so sure 100mg is working for me. I've taken a big dive today. Just feel exhausted again and a zombie in agony. I'm sick of this.
> From what I'm seeing, every increase I have, the lift lasts about 4-5 days and then I crash again. Will it ever "stick"????
> I understand why I drank. AT LEAST IT HELPS!
> katia
Posted by Budgie on November 14, 2003, at 13:37:20
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects ?katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 14, 2003, at 8:41:26
Since this seems to be the Lamictal crowd, I'll ask my question up here:
Lamictal or Lithium for (most likely) BP 2?
I'm taking Parnate (an MAOI) currently for the depression.
The "wild" times were previously characterized by anxiety, tension, and irritablity. Now, I'm on Klonopin temporarily, and in my highs I'm worry-free and seem to have hit my creative, energizing stride.
Please, any thoughts? (Especially re the MAOI combo).
Many thanks,
Budgie
Posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:03:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:22:14
>
> How am I doing? Pretty well, thanks. I had a bump last week and was feeling low and slightly ill. But I'm training myself to just be with feelings that are less than desirable by softening instead of defending against them. As long as I'm in a relatively coherent state of mind I can trust that, like the weather, my feelings will eventually change. I guess I'm practicing tolerating lesser discomfort while I can with a mind towards being ready for greater discomfort when it arises, like being mentally buff. I know I can handle anything that life dishes out, but I don't always remember this when I'm not thinking clearly. Then, everything seems like a disaster - like what to wear or if I should buy the can of chopped vs. whole olives. That one had me sobbing in the aisles of my food co-op. Luckily the manager understood depression and was very sweet to me. But I've always managed to muddle through anyway and I figure I probably always will. If I don't, I don't and so I practice not worrying about it when I'm able. - Barbara
>
>
Barbara,I feel that I have such a long way to go to get to those feelings of acceptance that you describe above. Instead, when I am feeling lousy I tend to get stuck, not believing that things will get better, which is where I am at today. Yesterday my pdoc finally gave me a bp II diagnosis so I guess I am still trying to accept the reality of living the rest of my life with this illness and the long-term effects it will have on my relationships with my children and husband. How do you get out of the negative, "I am never going to pull out of this" feeling? It is a frightening place to be for me right now.
When saw the pdoc yesterday I had to bring my husband along because I was afraid to get behind the wheel. I have had severe insomnia since I raised the Lamictal to 300mg and have been taking anything and everthing to get to sleep. The night before the pdoc appt. I took 50 mg of seroquel and had a fitful and restless sleep. Since I was so agitated, depressed, and sleep deprived I didn't want to risk driving.
If you try the seroquel, be prepared to feel VERY groggy in the am. I used to take 25mg per night along with a pinch of remeron which worked well for awhile but then pooped out on me. I have read that many folks here do fine on just half of this dosage or even lower.
I have tried trazadone in the past with little success. I really need the big guns to help me sleep. He switched me to Zyprexa 20mg and 10 mg of Ambien to make sure I would sleep last night. I could barely get out of bed this morning. It is now almost 3 pm and I am still foggy. I am at work trying to keep it together and act "normal" but I can't wait to get out of here. He also lowered the Lamictal to 100mg since the higher doses were causing increased anxiety/insomnia.
Sorry if I am rambling....my mind is in a fog, I feel like a zombie, and I just want to go home. Thanks for listening Barbara.
Your friend,
Nicole
Posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:10:38
In reply to Lamictal right for me?, posted by Budgie on November 14, 2003, at 13:37:20
> >
> Lamictal or Lithium for (most likely) BP 2?
>
>Budgie,
I cannot speak for Lithium since I have never tried it but I can speak for Lamictal. I noticed when titrating up that it worked well for my depression but after I reached 250mg and eventually 300mg, I became more anxious, irritable, and unable to sleep. My pdoc knocked it down to 100mg so I shall see. I also take 50 mg of zoloft.
I know that Barbara takes both lithium and lamictal so she will be an excellent source of info.
Nicole
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 14:36:02
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by poop'd-out on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:54
Hi Pooped-out
(Dep. and Lam)It was tentatively working. It needed to be increased all the way around to be sure. I was afraid of the PolyCysticOvarian syndrome(PCOS) that is a risk.
It sounds like you may bpii as well. I know I've experienced mostly depression. But in retrospect quite a few hypomanics and tons of mixed states.
katia
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:08:37
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 1:40:06
Good to hear you back Barb!
If Ambien is not a tranquilizer, what is it? A sleep aid? then what are sleep aids? How do they differ?
Last summer, when I wasn't sleeping at all - in a complete mixed state for months, I tried Ambien one night (got it from a friend) and I slept a whooping 6 hours (a big feat then). I was then also taking 20mg of Celexa, taking Trazadone for sleep and neurontin. I still wasn't sleeping barely at all (maybe 5 hrs a night)(minus the Ambien). HOWEVER I still have that big bottle of Neuron. The seroquel is making me depressed (or is it not enough drugs in my system?) and grooooogggy in the morning. I have to sleep 9+ hours on it. Last night at 2, I finally took some cuz' I wasn't sleeping. Now it's noon and I'm just having breakfast. I'm sick of being a loser.Sometimes I wonder about all these diagnoses. I mean, yes it really fits me and nothing else has been able to describe my tormenting experiences so well (plus the board here), but do I have a disorder? Maybe I'm just hoping so, so that I won't have to own up to being a *uck up and incapable of surviving in this world. I know that's not true; but it's how I'm feeling esp. in the face of trying to explain how I feel to friends. Who, with all good intentions, want to understand but can't see the difference between what I'm describing and normal mood fluctuations we all have. ZAP! I feel depleted and deflated when I hear that. One, I feel alone, misunderstood, unseen, blah blah blah. But then I feel that if I can't describe it and people don't see it then does it exist???? Or maybe I just need to put a gun to my head and end this miserable incompetent existence????
How did that store manager know about your depression? Did you tell him in confidence, or did he just pick up instantly what it was? You know when you meet people like that, it makes things sooo much easier.
Thank god, I had that appt. with the psychic. If she hadn't told me that until January will be the hardest (chipping old paint of my wall), getting out of the woods, I don't know if I could hang on without that faith. I'm so tired. and I tell you, quitting drinking has made NOTHING better. I can't believe I haven't drunk yet.
I'm at 100mg of Lam. felt better for a few days and am crashing again. Just want a glass of wine to even this mixed state (best I can describe it) out. no, make that a bottle with a couple cigs.
Does it ever get better? I'm sorry but it feels like everyone on this board is continually struggling and cycling and not remaining stable. most of all me. I need to have hope and hear success stories.
Maybe I'll start the Lithium Orotate first. You didn't have good success on that did you? I can get it cheaply I think. I'll look up the prices later. Maybe Neuronto., Lam. and Lithium will be the combo for me? god, I wish someone would just DO something with this blackeyed carcass. I'm sick of taking the lead. I look like hell, like I haven't slept in years, but I have.
I'm not in a good space. Sorry for the rant and thanks for hearing it.
katia
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:13:28
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by BarbaraCat on November 14, 2003, at 2:11:22
>> With every increase there's a zippy little lift, verging on perky hypomania but then it subsides and becomes more centered. It's kinda like that first rush of being in love. Very heady and bubbly and fun but it sure can wear you down and leave you longing for some R&R. - Barbara
>
Hey Barb,
Maybe that's what I'm experiencing. I get high - up - weeeeeeeeee when I take it - and most all days of the first couple days of dose increases. Then by the end of the late afternoon early evening, I'm crashing. And it progressively gets worse the more days that go on at a particular dose, i.e. less high and more fatigue and low/ crash and burn feeling.Is this me just adjusting to the med?
Im' calling my pdoc today.
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on November 14, 2003, at 14:03:26
> >
> > How am I doing? Pretty well, thanks. I had a bump last week and was feeling low and slightly ill. But I'm training myself to just be with feelings that are less than desirable by softening instead of defending against them. As long as I'm in a relatively coherent state of mind I can trust that, like the weather, my feelings will eventually change. I guess I'm practicing tolerating lesser discomfort while I can with a mind towards being ready for greater discomfort when it arises, like being mentally buff. I know I can handle anything that life dishes out, but I don't always remember this when I'm not thinking clearly. Then, everything seems like a disaster - like what to wear or if I should buy the can of chopped vs. whole olives. That one had me sobbing in the aisles of my food co-op. Luckily the manager understood depression and was very sweet to me. But I've always managed to muddle through anyway and I figure I probably always will. If I don't, I don't and so I practice not worrying about it when I'm able. - Barbara
> >
> >
>
>
> Barbara,
>
> I feel that I have such a long way to go to get to those feelings of acceptance that you describe above. Instead, when I am feeling lousy I tend to get stuck, not believing that things will get better, which is where I am at today. Yesterday my pdoc finally gave me a bp II diagnosis so I guess I am still trying to accept the reality of living the rest of my life with this illness and the long-term effects it will have on my relationships with my children and husband. How do you get out of the negative, "I am never going to pull out of this" feeling? It is a frightening place to be for me right now.
>
> When saw the pdoc yesterday I had to bring my husband along because I was afraid to get behind the wheel. I have had severe insomnia since I raised the Lamictal to 300mg and have been taking anything and everthing to get to sleep. The night before the pdoc appt. I took 50 mg of seroquel and had a fitful and restless sleep. Since I was so agitated, depressed, and sleep deprived I didn't want to risk driving.
>
> If you try the seroquel, be prepared to feel VERY groggy in the am. I used to take 25mg per night along with a pinch of remeron which worked well for awhile but then pooped out on me. I have read that many folks here do fine on just half of this dosage or even lower.
>
> I have tried trazadone in the past with little success. I really need the big guns to help me sleep. He switched me to Zyprexa 20mg and 10 mg of Ambien to make sure I would sleep last night. I could barely get out of bed this morning. It is now almost 3 pm and I am still foggy. I am at work trying to keep it together and act "normal" but I can't wait to get out of here. He also lowered the Lamictal to 100mg since the higher doses were causing increased anxiety/insomnia.
>
> Sorry if I am rambling....my mind is in a fog, I feel like a zombie, and I just want to go home. Thanks for listening Barbara.**Hi Nicole,
Sounds like you and I are in similar horrible ways. I just hope Barbara is in an ok place as we're both reaching out to her!
I, like you, take Seroquel for sleep. I take such a little amount, but it affects me very much. I take like 6mgs for sleep, but I have the same results as you upon awakening. It does put a fog in the brain even if it allows me to sleep.
The good side of your dx, is now you know. now you can begin searching for the right med combo.
take care,
katia
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