![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 5130 to 5154 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by jcsmiles21 on September 9, 2003, at 18:29:29
In reply to Re: Have I got too many side-effects?, posted by Noorah on October 22, 2002, at 10:05:38
My roommate committed suicide while taking 100 mgs of wellbutrin 2 times a day. He was suffering from depression. Though he complained about the side effects he was having, his psychacrist stated that it would take six weeks for the drug to take it full effect. He hanged himself 3 days prior to the 6 week timeframe. Has anybody else had suicidal thoughts from taking well butrin??
Posted by BJL on September 9, 2003, at 19:51:35
In reply to Re: Effexor Remeron, seeking feedback, posted by Music on September 9, 2003, at 14:37:12
I've never had an O to begin with so I'm obviously not missing that.
Posted by Salty_dog on September 9, 2003, at 21:49:47
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain , posted by Jacke on September 8, 2003, at 17:27:52
I went the site for Effexor (www.effexor.com), selected 'Prescribing Information' & 'Continue' and you get the manf. complete info.
I found no joint pain in specific terms, however, I also found no weight gain statistics. I have gained 10 lbs in one week for the last two weeks while I was on lower dosage. That problem continues to plague me. It could be the elimination of depression explains the hunger.
On page 29 you can read the 'moderately depressed' dosage info. Basicly the upper levels are between 225 and 300.
In other studies, more severely depressed patients where given a mean dosage of 350 mg.
That, of course, means some of the patients had much highter levels of Effexor.
I am sweating less each day and I can not say I have any other side effects. When I first jumped to 600 mg/Day I felt some confusion and slured speach, both of which have gone away.
I do not notice any new joint pain, but, I do feel brused and sore for no apparent reason. These feeling disapear in a short period of time and may be related to seizure activity durin my sleep because I have noticed that my tongue is punctured and painful as well.
So, this posting I hope, is an answer to several questions.
P.S.: I am still at 600 mg. and mostly fine but I am working on my sleep/wake cycle just in case I find work.
Good Night
Posted by cathyhil on September 9, 2003, at 23:06:34
In reply to anyone had weight gain?, posted by nocalmaggie on July 23, 2003, at 10:39:59
gained about 60# in 4 years on 300mg. Off effexor now and trying hard to lose it.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 7:53:49
In reply to side effects of well butrin...suicidal tendencies?, posted by jcsmiles21 on September 9, 2003, at 18:29:29
I don't believe that Welbutrin causes suicidal tendacies. I don't want to step on anyone's toes but your roommate went on Welbutrin because he was already depressed. I think that Welbutrin just wasn't a strong enough Anti-Depressant (AD) for him. I consider Welbutrin to be a Light-Weight, with Effexor being a Heavy-Weight AD.
I am sorry for your loss. I'm sorry for him that he took a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
> My roommate committed suicide while taking 100 mgs of wellbutrin 2 times a day. He was suffering from depression. Though he complained about the side effects he was having, his psychacrist stated that it would take six weeks for the drug to take it full effect. He hanged himself 3 days prior to the 6 week timeframe. Has anybody else had suicidal thoughts from taking well butrin??
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 7:55:05
In reply to Re: Effexor Remeron, seeking feedback, posted by BJL on September 9, 2003, at 19:51:35
Posted by Music on September 10, 2003, at 12:56:42
In reply to Re: Message for Angelina, posted by Angelina on September 9, 2003, at 17:09:12
A,
I am sorry about your father. Yesterday was hard for me my brother died 12 years ago and on his Birthday and was killed by a drunk driver. He was only 24 on that day.
I have missed your posts. I actually look forward to hearing from you. I will be thinking about you tomorrow and praying for you as well. We can make it through these difficult times. Even when it looks dark. I am going to PsyDoc tomorrow morning for my 3 week check up and I think I have to change my med. I don't think it is working. Well keep in touch. I am going to lunch right. Oh my husband can't go to my PsyDoc because he has class at college. Post me soon.
Music
Posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:20:55
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello all.... I just started Effexor yesterday, and saw all this here and got a little scared. I was prescribed this because Celexa was not working for GAD. I had NO energey and NO interest in sex. My pdoc said that this should help correct this situation. I have taken many others in the past, Paxil (worse than chemo) Xanax (didn't work) buspar (made me suicidal), etc... Been so long can't remember all of em right now. But does anyone know if this will help give me energy, I go to bed at 8:30 everynight. Hubby says I don't give him enough attention... At my wit's end. Please help
Thanks J9
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 14:36:22
In reply to Just started Effexor Yesterday, posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:20:55
Effexor definately kills the sex drive and it about put me to sleep at first, during the day, not the night. In my mind, I think it's similar to Paxil, which sounds like it's bad news for you. I bet Welbutrin would be a good choice for you, unless you had a history of eating disorders. Welbutrin is sort of stimulating and didn't affect my sex drive at all. I took it successfully for years. It's the same as Zyban (sp?) and if you smoke, it could help you stop... Bad thing about Welbutrin is that it takes several weeks until you notice a difference. It's very gradual.
Take Benedryl at night to help with the 3:00/4:00 wakeups or ask your pdoc for a prescription of Trazadone to help you sleep at night. Everyone says that Effexor doesn't give an energy boost until you reach the higher dosage levels.
Good Luck!
KDi in Texas> Hello all.... I just started Effexor yesterday, and saw all this here and got a little scared. I was prescribed this because Celexa was not working for GAD. I had NO energey and NO interest in sex. My pdoc said that this should help correct this situation. I have taken many others in the past, Paxil (worse than chemo) Xanax (didn't work) buspar (made me suicidal), etc... Been so long can't remember all of em right now. But does anyone know if this will help give me energy, I go to bed at 8:30 everynight. Hubby says I don't give him enough attention... At my wit's end. Please help
>
> Thanks J9
Posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:45:53
In reply to Just started Effexor Yesterday, posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:20:55
Thanks for your quick reply KDi. I took zyban and it turned me into a virtual Zombe!!! I literally went through days without knowing what I did. I am on 37.5mgs of Effexor for 1 week, then 75 for a week then a final of 150. I am really scared of everything I have heard so far. Pdoc and pharmacist both said that they would prescribe effexor for female sexual dysfunction over the Celexa I was taking. But I now am afraid of all of the other side effects.
J9
Posted by Music on September 10, 2003, at 15:30:17
In reply to Re: Just started Effexor Yesterday, posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:45:53
I am back from lunch and at my desk working. I have been thinking about you. I hope you are doing okay. Keep in touch. You were there for me and I will try to be there for you as you are struggling.
Music
Posted by Angelina on September 10, 2003, at 16:14:14
In reply to Message for Angelina, posted by Music on September 10, 2003, at 15:30:17
> I am back from lunch and at my desk working. I have been thinking about you. I hope you are doing okay. Keep in touch. You were there for me and I will try to be there for you as you are struggling.
>
> Music>Thanks!
I'm going to my mom's tomorrow until Sunday, and I don't use the computer there, as it's too slow. I'll check back in Sunday or Monday.
Take care of yourself.
A.
Posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 16:16:08
In reply to Re: Just started Effexor Yesterday, posted by J9 on September 10, 2003, at 14:45:53
I will soon have to increase from 75mg to 150mg. Do I take 2 75 in the morning? Or do I take one in the morning and one in the afternoon? How should I do this for the maximum results to take effect?
J9
Posted by sufferfromeffexor on September 10, 2003, at 19:19:11
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello all. I keep popping in and out of this message board, mainly because my moods keep going from one thing to the other. I have been on Effexor (started on Zoloft) for about 8 years. I decided that I wanted to come off of it to see what I am like without medication. I thought my doctor understood this...well since I have been tapering, I have had severe emotional breakdowns (coming from someone who never showed any emotion)...and even though it brings dark thoughts into my head, I am trying my best to survive. I want to pull my head above this water of depression and medication so badly! I think I am going to be starting a 5 day a week cognitive therapy session, which has given me tremendous hope to hold on to!!! However, I went to see my psychiatrist today and he discharged me as a patient!!!! He said if I don't want to take any more medicine he can't see me because my insurance won't cover it. Ok, I understand that intellectually...but he told me this right after I told him I have suicide ideation thoughts...go figure! I asked him for the referral to the hospital program (per my counselor) and he acted like I was asking him for his next born child. He completely dismissed me today (of all the days not be to be dismissed, this was the one) and I am flabbergasted. I called my counselor, bawling like a baby, because not only did he dismiss me...but he ended my tapering down off of Effexor, he told me to just quit now. Grantid I came from 150mg to 37.5 every other day, but I was supposed to do the every other day until Sept. 7th and than go from there, depending on how my withdrawls are. I am terrified now. Yesterday was my very firt skipped dose (intentionally anyhow) and the shocks were pretty bad...now I am just supposed to do it alone? The nerve of this guy. Anyway, I am so angry and so upset, that I just needed a place to vent. I am so tired of "pill pushers"...it's like they don't want anything to do with you because you won't be giving them a paycheck if you stop taking medication. Doesn't anyone in this world truly WANT people to feel better and not keep them trapped for their own financial gain???? Sorry everyone, I had to get it off my chest.
Posted by Angelina on September 10, 2003, at 19:25:35
In reply to Bad psychiatrists...., posted by sufferfromeffexor on September 10, 2003, at 19:19:11
> Hello all. I keep popping in and out of this message board, mainly because my moods keep going from one thing to the other. I have been on Effexor (started on Zoloft) for about 8 years. I decided that I wanted to come off of it to see what I am like without medication. I thought my doctor understood this...well since I have been tapering, I have had severe emotional breakdowns (coming from someone who never showed any emotion)...and even though it brings dark thoughts into my head, I am trying my best to survive. I want to pull my head above this water of depression and medication so badly! I think I am going to be starting a 5 day a week cognitive therapy session, which has given me tremendous hope to hold on to!!! However, I went to see my psychiatrist today and he discharged me as a patient!!!! He said if I don't want to take any more medicine he can't see me because my insurance won't cover it. Ok, I understand that intellectually...but he told me this right after I told him I have suicide ideation thoughts...go figure! I asked him for the referral to the hospital program (per my counselor) and he acted like I was asking him for his next born child. He completely dismissed me today (of all the days not be to be dismissed, this was the one) and I am flabbergasted. I called my counselor, bawling like a baby, because not only did he dismiss me...but he ended my tapering down off of Effexor, he told me to just quit now. Grantid I came from 150mg to 37.5 every other day, but I was supposed to do the every other day until Sept. 7th and than go from there, depending on how my withdrawls are. I am terrified now. Yesterday was my very firt skipped dose (intentionally anyhow) and the shocks were pretty bad...now I am just supposed to do it alone? The nerve of this guy. Anyway, I am so angry and so upset, that I just needed a place to vent. I am so tired of "pill pushers"...it's like they don't want anything to do with you because you won't be giving them a paycheck if you stop taking medication. Doesn't anyone in this world truly WANT people to feel better and not keep them trapped for their own financial gain???? Sorry everyone, I had to get it off my chest.
>I'm so sorry you had this happen today! I can definitely empathize.
Regarding the ongoing withdrawal "shocks", I have had great success taking benedryl as soon as I start feeling them. I have not taken any effexor in almost a week, due to the benedryl. Try this!!
Good luck.
Posted by sufferfromeffexor on September 10, 2003, at 19:32:42
In reply to Re: Bad psychiatrists...., posted by Angelina on September 10, 2003, at 19:25:35
Angelina,
Thank you for your response. I have been trying the Benedryl and it does seem to help. I am so angry (actually full of rage) at these doctors who just don't care what they are prescribing to people. I know they help some people, and it worked on me for a few months, of the 8 years I took it, but these doctors need to realize they aren't working 9-5, they are working with real human lives! I truly believe that had I been worse off (emotionally), as many people are, today could have been drastic. Doctors should in no way dismiss any patient!> > Hello all. I keep popping in and out of this message board, mainly because my moods keep going from one thing to the other. I have been on Effexor (started on Zoloft) for about 8 years. I decided that I wanted to come off of it to see what I am like without medication. I thought my doctor understood this...well since I have been tapering, I have had severe emotional breakdowns (coming from someone who never showed any emotion)...and even though it brings dark thoughts into my head, I am trying my best to survive. I want to pull my head above this water of depression and medication so badly! I think I am going to be starting a 5 day a week cognitive therapy session, which has given me tremendous hope to hold on to!!! However, I went to see my psychiatrist today and he discharged me as a patient!!!! He said if I don't want to take any more medicine he can't see me because my insurance won't cover it. Ok, I understand that intellectually...but he told me this right after I told him I have suicide ideation thoughts...go figure! I asked him for the referral to the hospital program (per my counselor) and he acted like I was asking him for his next born child. He completely dismissed me today (of all the days not be to be dismissed, this was the one) and I am flabbergasted. I called my counselor, bawling like a baby, because not only did he dismiss me...but he ended my tapering down off of Effexor, he told me to just quit now. Grantid I came from 150mg to 37.5 every other day, but I was supposed to do the every other day until Sept. 7th and than go from there, depending on how my withdrawls are. I am terrified now. Yesterday was my very firt skipped dose (intentionally anyhow) and the shocks were pretty bad...now I am just supposed to do it alone? The nerve of this guy. Anyway, I am so angry and so upset, that I just needed a place to vent. I am so tired of "pill pushers"...it's like they don't want anything to do with you because you won't be giving them a paycheck if you stop taking medication. Doesn't anyone in this world truly WANT people to feel better and not keep them trapped for their own financial gain???? Sorry everyone, I had to get it off my chest.
>
> >I'm so sorry you had this happen today! I can definitely empathize.
> Regarding the ongoing withdrawal "shocks", I have had great success taking benedryl as soon as I start feeling them. I have not taken any effexor in almost a week, due to the benedryl. Try this!!
> Good luck.
>
>
Posted by Salty_dog on September 10, 2003, at 21:03:09
In reply to Re: Bad psychiatrists.... » Angelina, posted by sufferfromeffexor on September 10, 2003, at 19:32:42
I had much the same experience with PsyDr. My current Family Dr. is the best thing that has ever happened to me. He has studied extensively into this area of expertise. By giving me and my Wife a written test, He was able to identify my Bi-Polar condition. I began treatment for the mania I was having and eventualy We (the Dr and I) needed to treat the depression phase. I started off with Zyprexa for the mania and Wellbuterin for the depression. I had a siezure which happened shortly after starting the Wellbuterin so We swichted to Effexor XR. It is not the first time I have had Effexor XR. If you have read my earlier posts you might figue out what dosage has worked for me. I am a recovering Alcoholic and Drug Addict so I am more than slightly familiar with withdrawl. When I previosly stopped Effexor XR I also stopped Xanax (which I had tapered off of for one year) so I though it was the Xanax that messed me up. I was at a dosage of 300mg Effexor XR and 1mg of Xanax. I made it because I had started taking the Zyprexa. I seemed to lessen the withdrawl. I am upset with the PsyDr community also. They where responsible for my Mothers inability to recover 20 years ago (She passed away Institutionalized). All they did was pushed any new drug at her and collected insurance for the 5 minute session. They have not changed in 20 years. My Family Dr. has a better grasp on this than the people who are supposedly trained for this. I wonder what could be done to shack up the Psy. community enough to make changes in a 100+ year mess. I wish you the best and I can only suggest you might find some help in a Family Dr.. They seem more caring.> Angelina,
> Thank you for your response. I have been trying the Benedryl and it does seem to help. I am so angry (actually full of rage) at these doctors who just don't care what they are prescribing to people. I know they help some people, and it worked on me for a few months, of the 8 years I took it, but these doctors need to realize they aren't working 9-5, they are working with real human lives! I truly believe that had I been worse off (emotionally), as many people are, today could have been drastic. Doctors should in no way dismiss any patient!
>
> > > Hello all. I keep popping in and out of this message board, mainly because my moods keep going from one thing to the other. I have been on Effexor (started on Zoloft) for about 8 years. I decided that I wanted to come off of it to see what I am like without medication. I thought my doctor understood this...well since I have been tapering, I have had severe emotional breakdowns (coming from someone who never showed any emotion)...and even though it brings dark thoughts into my head, I am trying my best to survive. I want to pull my head above this water of depression and medication so badly! I think I am going to be starting a 5 day a week cognitive therapy session, which has given me tremendous hope to hold on to!!! However, I went to see my psychiatrist today and he discharged me as a patient!!!! He said if I don't want to take any more medicine he can't see me because my insurance won't cover it. Ok, I understand that intellectually...but he told me this right after I told him I have suicide ideation thoughts...go figure! I asked him for the referral to the hospital program (per my counselor) and he acted like I was asking him for his next born child. He completely dismissed me today (of all the days not be to be dismissed, this was the one) and I am flabbergasted. I called my counselor, bawling like a baby, because not only did he dismiss me...but he ended my tapering down off of Effexor, he told me to just quit now. Grantid I came from 150mg to 37.5 every other day, but I was supposed to do the every other day until Sept. 7th and than go from there, depending on how my withdrawls are. I am terrified now. Yesterday was my very firt skipped dose (intentionally anyhow) and the shocks were pretty bad...now I am just supposed to do it alone? The nerve of this guy. Anyway, I am so angry and so upset, that I just needed a place to vent. I am so tired of "pill pushers"...it's like they don't want anything to do with you because you won't be giving them a paycheck if you stop taking medication. Doesn't anyone in this world truly WANT people to feel better and not keep them trapped for their own financial gain???? Sorry everyone, I had to get it off my chest.
> >
> > >I'm so sorry you had this happen today! I can definitely empathize.
> > Regarding the ongoing withdrawal "shocks", I have had great success taking benedryl as soon as I start feeling them. I have not taken any effexor in almost a week, due to the benedryl. Try this!!
> > Good luck.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2003, at 21:23:39
In reply to side effects of well butrin...suicidal tendencies?, posted by jcsmiles21 on September 9, 2003, at 18:29:29
Yes, I did. Wellbutrin caused incredible agitation in me, and I had suicidal urges connected with that.
What were the side effects he complained of? Was it agitation and restlessness, a crawly feeling?
I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
Posted by tacky1 on September 11, 2003, at 0:35:24
In reply to You too? Yeah! I'm not alone!!! (nm) » BJL, posted by KimberlyDi on September 10, 2003, at 7:55:05
You poor things. I really feel for you. The big "O" is something that I am fortunate enough to obtain, but was it was very difficult on Effexor XR. And sometimes,often, impossible. Thank goodness also for my persistent and patient husband. I am so happy I found this web site. I didn't even realize that it was the medication causing this until I went off. Boy is my marriage sparking up, shall I say. This difficulty with never having an "O" is very unfortunate. I think there should be a book out there, or something to explain how. It is something that would be very hard to explain, but it seems to me that once you have one you know how to again & again (yeah). Not that I am Dr. Ruth by any means, but if anyone would like to e-mail me privately my address is [email protected].
Posted by Mattsit on September 11, 2003, at 8:34:41
In reply to Have I got too many side-effects?, posted by cherry on October 17, 2002, at 23:09:03
Hi everyone. I am scared to death. I used to drink a lot 2001-2002....stopped finally last november 2002. In between 2001 and 2002 I was on paxil for anxiety and depression. It worked and i stopped taking it after 4 months on my own.
Well now im going through tough times maybe losing my job, and all my crazy anxiety thoughts and depression returned. I saw a new doctor and told him about my current thoughts and that i needed help but didnt want to take paxil because it caused me to have a foggy head....well lets just say after 4 days of effexor, I feel like im out of my mind. I dont know if its the effexor or the drinking a year ago...it doesnt make sense, i know...but my anxiety has only gone up. My brain is completely fogged out...i cant concentrate or see clearly...blurred vision, slowed vision...sweaty palms and even shakier hands than usual. Is this normal effexor side effects, or am i nuts and brain damaged from drinking????? HELP...i feel completely crazy, like i cant go on...I called the doc and he said to discontinue effexor and see him next week...help.
Posted by oeps7 on September 11, 2003, at 9:25:40
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal-benedryl helps (nm) » psychobunny, posted by loolot on September 7, 2003, at 10:47:21
do you gain weight on the benadryl- it's helping me withdrawals but also increases my appetite ten fold.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 11, 2003, at 11:37:47
In reply to Effexor and my Foggy Brain, posted by Mattsit on September 11, 2003, at 8:34:41
I'm in the same boat as you, but in a much nicer section than you seem to be in. Effexor works for me wonderfully, but I enjoyed the Immediate Release (IR) instead of the XR version. I could feel the calmness soon after taking it. After 4 days, I don't believe your dosage would be high enough to be a therapeutic level. So either you are having a bad reaction to Effexor, or your stress is unaffected by the low dosage that you might be taking. Be calm, go see your doc. Something will work for you. Things will get better. I came from a very bad place to where I am now. I wish you luck!
Hang in There!
KDi in Texas> Hi everyone. I am scared to death. I used to drink a lot 2001-2002....stopped finally last november 2002. In between 2001 and 2002 I was on paxil for anxiety and depression. It worked and i stopped taking it after 4 months on my own.
>
> Well now im going through tough times maybe losing my job, and all my crazy anxiety thoughts and depression returned. I saw a new doctor and told him about my current thoughts and that i needed help but didnt want to take paxil because it caused me to have a foggy head....well lets just say after 4 days of effexor, I feel like im out of my mind. I dont know if its the effexor or the drinking a year ago...it doesnt make sense, i know...but my anxiety has only gone up. My brain is completely fogged out...i cant concentrate or see clearly...blurred vision, slowed vision...sweaty palms and even shakier hands than usual. Is this normal effexor side effects, or am i nuts and brain damaged from drinking????? HELP...i feel completely crazy, like i cant go on...I called the doc and he said to discontinue effexor and see him next week...help.
Posted by Salty_dog on September 11, 2003, at 12:01:14
In reply to Effexor and my Foggy Brain, posted by Mattsit on September 11, 2003, at 8:34:41
You where getting close to ending the side-effects that most of the people on Psycho-Babble have had. I can't speak for others, but, I have noticed severe side-effects for 4-7 days and then a different set of side-effects (less pronounced) thereafter.
Because you have stopped drinking recently, you are going to go through 1-2 years of withdrawl mentally, physically and emotionaly.
I know whence you come from. Hang in there. Don't drink and go to meetings. Wellbutrin will probably be a better choice if you need an anti-depressant. but, try to remember that the depression will pass with time as long as you don't drink. I you are experiencing highs and lows then it is defantly the alcohol dance, and anti-depressants may be a waste of time and Wellbutrin can be abused.
Once again, Hang in there, go to meetings and don't drink. If you drink, depression gets worse.
Posted by loolot on September 11, 2003, at 12:07:12
In reply to Bad psychiatrists...., posted by sufferfromeffexor on September 10, 2003, at 19:19:11
I can relate to your situation. I just went off effexor about three weeks ago, and I have plunged back into a deperate depression, crying, sleeping, and completely unable to function.
I called my doc a few time leaving messages, then paging him. His secretary called back saying he would just talk to me on my appt in week.
I felt so abandoned with nowhere to turn for help.
I am so sorry you are feeling bad. The effexor withdrawal was awful but I started taking benedryl for the queasiness and it really helped.
I dont think these doctors are very well trained in relating with their patients, unfortunately.
Posted by Mattsit on September 11, 2003, at 12:52:52
In reply to Re: Effexor and my Foggy Brain » Mattsit, posted by Salty_dog on September 11, 2003, at 12:01:14
Salty Dog,
I need some advice from you...Having been an abusive drinker for that year and a half, I stopped last november...I had a rough time until about march, and gradually felt better and better. Now I think my depression/anxiety/hopeless thoughts are more related to unsure job security...I might be getting canned, im looking, but the economy is so horrible!
Anyway, have other people on here had my side effects 4 days into Effexor? The foggy head was absolutely the worst...I feel like the sides of my head are squeezed at the top. I definately was also dizzy, chills, sweaty hands, and nasuea.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.