![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 3807 to 3831 of 8406. Go back in thread:
Posted by theump on August 5, 2003, at 20:06:14
In reply to Re: Lexapro Withdrawal Dizziness, posted by Bela on August 5, 2003, at 15:00:18
I started Lex about 2 months ago, taking 10mg per day. I have had no major side effects, actually nothing but the usual week long sexual effects and some teeth clenching. I've felt very, very lucky!
However, I saw my doctor today and he wants me to up my dose to 20mg. I know I've read a lot of posts about this, but I'm going to ask again. Should I go up the full 10mg to start or should I go up to 15 and if so, for how long? And then after that time go to 20mg? I'm afraid to mess with the dose because I'm afraid of the side effects so many of you have been experiencing. But, at the same time, "the light" hasn't come on yet.
Thank you for the advice!
Posted by billy-b on August 5, 2003, at 20:56:53
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects » guyndenver, posted by lil' jimi on August 3, 2003, at 0:33:51
> hi guyndenver,
>
> you're welcome ... ... anytime.
> ... ... (see below)
>
> > Thanks, Jim. I appreciate your input on this.
> >
> > Even though I have been treated for "depression" numerous times over the years, this last bout was with anxiety. I had an attack so severe that I could no longer eat. Everything I tried to swallow got stuck in my throat. After numerous procedures to try to "fix" the problem, my doc suggested that it might be anxiety and put me on Remeron Soltabs. Didn't work, so we tried liquid Prozac with limited results. Well, to make a long story short, I went for over 5 months living on mashed potatoes, yogurt, milkshakes, etc. I lost 30 lbs (not that I couldn't stand to loose 30 lbs, but not the way to do it). After I started eating again and stopped the Prozac, they put me on Paxil CR, 12.5mg to just keep me on an even keel. I had been on regular Paxil in the past and hated it. Paxil CR seemed to be better in all aspects except the sexual effects.
> >
> > I was in to see my doc two weeks ago and we discussed this all. She said it was up to me what I wanted to do. She told that since I have such an issue with insomnia as well, that she would really like to up my Paxil CR to 25mg and I told her I didn't want to do that because of the sexual side effects. That's when she mentioned Lexapro, or she said I could go off the Paxil for a while and see where I am. So, that was what I opted for. I have been totally off Paxil now for nearly a week (a week Monday) and ALL sexual side effects are gone. What a joy! I am still dealing with the dizzy spells, nausea and all that other crap that happens during withdrawls, but at least now I can have normal sex.
> >
> > I think I will see how this goes. If there is any sign of my anxiety issues resurfacing, I will have to do something - maybe Lexapro. We will see. I would like to hear more about your experience on Lex, but will respect the others on the site.
> >
> > > hi guyndenver,
> > >
> > > and my thanks for covering for us there, theump .. ... .. sorry i'm so late ...
> > >
> > > guy, i certainly understand your feelings ... frustration can have few sharper definitions ... past posters have shared the misery of the folly of viagra for anorgasmia, the inability to have orgasms ... ... to have endured this as long as you have is infuriating and hardly seems a relief for depression ... all of which you have stated very well.
> > >
> > > there have been a number of posts about sexual side effects (hardly "side" effects) on this lexapro thread ... many have been prompted by inquiries by me ... .. ... there would seem to me to be a consensus that lex has less sexual SEs than paxil or effexor ... which i would say is damning lex with faint praise due to paxil's and effexor's notorious reputations for sexual dysfunction of many types, notably decreased libido ... the posts to this thread have mentioned almost no lexapro related loss of libido (of those that have mentioned this, almost all were using other meds as well) and there have been no mentions of erectile dysfunction.
> > >
> > > and all of this information is from my distillation of reading the entire lex thread which extends back more than a year ... not exactly science, especially with my memory for a data base! ... ...
> > > ... ... nevertheless, there are consistencies which would suggest some validity to these observations ...
> > >
> > > my wife was on paxil maybe 15 years ago now and we have regretted it everyday since ... we still struggle to recover her libido, but the greater tragedy was not knowing or ever being told about paxil side effects until very recently ...
> > >
> > > i have been on lexapro since march ... ... i had some intense SEs the first few days, but by 2 weeks they all went away ... ...
> > > ... ... one of my side effects was anorgasmia ... ... frankly it was frightening, but _within_ that first week i went from a total inability to have an orgasm or ejaculate, despite full libido and erectile function ... ... back to orgasmic function.
> > > ... ... in total, this lasted less than a week ... ...
> > >
> > > actually, i have had to restrain myself posting about sexual function here because i am among a (small?) number of lex users who have had beneficial sexual experience since taking lex ... ... on a message board about meds for anxiety and depression, it isn't really considerate to be celebrating sexual benefits from the drugs you're taking too loudly ... ...
> > > ... ... since my anorgasmia went away my orgasms have changed for the better, but i am only giving details if requested, out of respect for the folks suffering who don't need to hear this.
> > >
> > > ... ... so guyndenver, that's my story ... ... after all the studies are done and all the posts posted, there will remain a wide range of possibilities of how lexapro could effect your anorgasmia .... and all of the probabilities won't mean a thing compared to your own, unique, risky experience of trying lexapro for yourself ...
> > > ... ... stories i tell don't matter compared to direct experience
> > >
> > > i have not taken any other ADs ... but i believe the SSRIs are different from each other, even celexa from lexapro by a great deal, i would say, and that each ssri effects the user differently, but individual variation of the users overwhelms any value from the statistics from studies ... stats can kind of guide you before you take, say, an ssri, but you're on your own after you do take an ssri ...
> > >
> > > ... ... except we have this forum here (Thanks, Dr. Bob!) to share our experiences, offer information, and to support each other ... ... i am indebted to the people who have posted here ... i have benefitted greatly. ... my thanks to every one.
> > >
> > > i wish you the best and i would hope you would keep posting here whether you take any meds or not ... ... it would be great to hear how you are doing ...
> > >
> > > ...and as my pal Wayne has taught me, we sign out with, his classic ...
> > > TAKE CARE !!!
> > > ~ jim
> > >
> > > p.s. your paxil SEs have endured so long since you quit paxil, i'd wonder if lexapro Could overcome such an established condition ... what does your doc say about your persistent anorgamia?
> > > ~ j
> > >
> > > > Thanks for your input. But, I think I will wait until Lex has been out for a bit longer. I read an interesting article I found on webmd about SSRI's and sexual side effects in general. It states that overall, in men, SSRI's create some sort of sexual side effect, whether it be E.D. or "delayed orgasm" in around 10% of those taking them. But, they are now finding that that 10% number isn't even close to the actual number of those effected. They blame the false findings in the clinical trials and post trials to the fact that most men are uncomfortable discussing these problems with their docs. This is not a direct quote, but the jist of the article. So, if on average, SSRI's in general show 10%, and Lexapro (according to their own documentation) shows 9%, I aint gonna hold my breath.
> > > >
> > > > My doc tried the viagra route with me and thus the other issue. I can now go for 4 hours straight and no orgasm. Might sound great to some, but, trust me, it is pure hell! If any company out there actually ever is successfull in figuring this one out, I hope I know someone on the inside because I will mortgage my home to buy their stock! It will out sell all other SSRI's out there.
> > > >
>
> my reply:
> .... .... i had gotten a mistaken impression that you'd been quit from paxil longer .... .... making the transition has hardly ever been reported as easy
> ... ... i'd have to say, especially for our anxiety sufferers ... many times the initial start up lex SEs include making our anxiety symptoms worse ... some folks have been medicated for 2 weeks with anti-anxiety med before beginning lexapro ...
>
> i thought this post by Larry Hoover would be valuable info for all of our anxiety disorder folks ... (Lar is another of our valuable resources here at pBab, along with JB (jrbecker) and Ron Hill):
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030728/msgs/247337.html
>
> and this is a great link , which my brother-in-lexapro, Wayne has offered here more than once :
> http://panicdisorder.about.com/features/blmed1.htm
>
> the shortest version of the rest of my story ... (because you asked) is that my orgasms have improved, dramatically, since i have recovered from my initial lex-induced anorgasmia ... dramatically ...
>
> ... long version ... i didn't need any improvement(s) in my sexual function and certainly didn't expect any ... ... my wife's experience with paxil made me leery when my doctor said there might be some sexual side effects ... ... i feared the threat to libido the most, of course, from my wife's experience... ....
> ..
> ... so going from no orgasmic, erectile, libido dysfunction before lexapro, ... by the second day, orgasm became impossible ... surprisingly i was not alarmed as much as amazed by such total orgasm dysfunction, while having complete libido drive and erectile function ... it quickly became apparent to me that there was an impenetrable biochemical barrier between me and orgasm ... it struck me as bizarre that libido, erectile and orgasm functions were so distinct and separable ... ...
> ... about this time, among my other SEs (sweating spells, depersonalization, fatigue, panic attack(s), vivid dreams, some deal with my appetite), i had this new challenge to urinating ... it took a focused deliberate approach to do what was an autonomic response before, but i also noticed this tingling sensation at the end of my penis ... a not-quite-numbness ... that i also noticed some at the tips of my fingers and toes and my nose ... and this seemed more salient when i would have an anorgasmic episode
> ... ... while it lasted, one is in unrelieved auto-foreplay ... ...
> ... ... five days later i recovered ...
> ... however, lexapro had brought me a hyperawareness of many aspects of my experience: my feelings; my appetite; my sleep; my perceptions, sharpness of vision, vividness of color; acuteness of sound, especially music, taste of food ... ... this included a fuller perception of my anorgasmia and a heighten awareness as it went away ... ... by the seventh day after beginning lexapro i had recovered more than my former full orgasmic response ... .. .
>
> ... build up is more dramatic ...
> ... anticipation, more intense, more confidence inspiring, more enjoyable ... ...
> ... and orgasm has become much more intense, longer in duration, multifaceted, more deeply satisfying ... ... this is a situation which went from just sensational before to stunningly spectacular now ... ...
>
> ... ... then all my other SEs went away
>
> ... my first day of lex i took 10 mg
> ... second day i decreased to 5 mg, where i stayed for a month, then i went back to 10 mg ... .. ... my anorgasmia returned for anther 5 days ... then faded back into the new specatular state i have described ... ... i continue to take 10 mg a day ... ...
>
> i would only hope lexapro could help you as much as it has benefited me .. ... .. or even half as much ... ... but we all know that there can be no guarantees ...
>
> good luck to you ... do keep on touch .. ... we are grateful for everyone's posts ... ... please let us have your updates here ... i'd like to know how you're doing ... ... and ...
>
> TAKE CARE !!!
>
> ~ jimHi-This is my first posting and I am very gratefull that this forum is available as I have never taken AD's Before. About 5 weeks ago I started on wellbutrin and began to experience sexual se's right away. The last two of those 5 week's I began taking lexapro as well. From what I have read I dont need to describe the feelings one gets after being chemically castrated. Aorgasmia, as it has been called here, is one of the single most wierd things that has ever happend to my body. Yes I will give it some more time for my system to adapt but I'm doubtfull. So, for what it's worth,thats what's happening to this male who does not have a problem discussing sexual se's especially with any so-called researcher's from a drug co. Thank's I vented. Now I have to decide if the trade-off is worth it. I feel so much better now but at what expense?
Take Care billy
Posted by Liss523 on August 5, 2003, at 21:39:13
In reply to Re: Changing to Lexapro from Paxil--How to switc, posted by tm on August 2, 2003, at 9:24:46
>I'm in the process of switching from Paxil to Lexapro also. I just stopped Paxil and then went straight to Lexapro...but I had horrible withdrawal effects, so after 3 days of Lexapro, I'm back on Paxil. Another poster told me to take Lexapro (10) and then also take the Paxil at the same time, but taper down the Paxil over a few weeks. I think that's the best idea...my doctor didn't think I would feel any withdrawal since they're both SSRI's, but I sure as hell did!!!
>
> > Thanks for the posts.
> >
> > I think I will change from Paxil to Lexpro. When people have changed can you stop the Paxil one day and start the Lexpro the next? Has anyone got the speedy feeling from the Lexpro? I have tired to stop the Paxil before without taking another drug and had withdrawal anxiety that was horrible.
>
>
Posted by Peter S. on August 5, 2003, at 22:02:08
In reply to And Up I Go!, posted by theump on August 5, 2003, at 20:06:14
Hi ump,
We're in the same situation. I have been on Lex for 2 months. I increased to 15 and then 20mg last week and definitely noticed an effect. I increased to 25mg and last night I feel even better today. I plan to go up to 30mg. I've heard of people being on 40mg. It is just a matter of going slow. My side effects have faded pretty much completely.
I'll post about how things are going. Best of luck!
Peter
> I started Lex about 2 months ago, taking 10mg per day. I have had no major side effects, actually nothing but the usual week long sexual effects and some teeth clenching. I've felt very, very lucky!
>
> However, I saw my doctor today and he wants me to up my dose to 20mg. I know I've read a lot of posts about this, but I'm going to ask again. Should I go up the full 10mg to start or should I go up to 15 and if so, for how long? And then after that time go to 20mg? I'm afraid to mess with the dose because I'm afraid of the side effects so many of you have been experiencing. But, at the same time, "the light" hasn't come on yet.
>
> Thank you for the advice!
Posted by lil' jimi on August 5, 2003, at 23:48:37
In reply to re: lil' jimi wants to know! » lil' jimi, posted by Capri on August 4, 2003, at 17:58:49
> Hi Jim,
>
> I have a lot to tell you..No more Lexapro.
>
> I felt it was helping with my anxiety. My brain felt fried and I couldn't remember what I did 2 minutes ago. I had no motivation and was tired. I was only taking 5mg. When I increased it I had bad dizziness and fogginess.
>
> I think these AD's just aren't good for me. This doc wants to try me on Depakote. I don't know much about it and not sure I want to try it.
>
> I'm going to think about it for a little bit and then see what I'll do next. Might just take Klonopin for awhile and see how I feel.
>
> How are you?
>
> Thanks for asking about me. I really appreciate you taking the time to care.
> Caprihi Capri,
this is Larry Hoover’s august 1st post in response to joebob’s post about A.M. anxiety
(see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030728/msgs/247337.html):The first thing I'd consider is magnesium. Stress depletes magnesium. Chronic stress virtually guarantees magnesium deficiency. Use any mag supplement you want, but not magnesium oxide. Start low dose (200 mg), as it can cause diarrhea. Take 20 minutes before bedtime.
Also, niacinamide. It has natural anxiolytic effects, acting at the same receptor complex as does valium. 500 mg, up to four times a day.
General calming might come with soya lecithin granules. One tablespoon a day.
Phosphatidylserine (somewhat more expensive) might also help.
Make sure you're getting your B-vitamins. Get a high potency B-complex, and take it every day.
Lar
i thank Lar, although he wouldn’t know i’m reposting him ... my apologies for presuming on his indulgence
when i was re-reading Lar’s and joebob’s messages i recalled that it was joebob who was prescribed Depakote for 2 weeks before beginning(and in preparation for) Lexapro ... ... which seems unusual for being more insightful and anticipatory of Lexapro’s effects than we are used to ... at least to me, anyway ... ... you might want to do a search for joebob’s posts about this and maybe post to him inquiring about Depakote ?
how are you doing?
getting enough water?take care
~ jim
Posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:26:47
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects, posted by billy-b on August 5, 2003, at 20:56:53
hi billy,
you wrote:
> Hi-This is my first posting and I am very gratefull that this forum is available as I have never taken AD's Before. About 5 weeks ago I started on wellbutrin and began to experience sexual se's right away. The last two of those 5 week's I began taking lexapro as well. From what I have read I dont need to describe the feelings one gets after being chemically castrated. Aorgasmia, as it has been called here, is one of the single most wierd things that has ever happend to my body. Yes I will give it some more time for my system to adapt but I'm doubtfull. So, for what it's worth,thats what's happening to this male who does not have a problem discussing sexual se's especially with any so-called researcher's from a drug co. Thank's I vented. Now I have to decide if the trade-off is worth it. I feel so much better now but at what expense?
> Take Care billyi had the impression that wellbutrin got prescribed because it has good profile for sexual SEs ... ... which must reveal how little i know about wellbutrin ...
... i'd never taken any AD before lexapro ... ... can only go by what i read on the board here ... pretty common combination: lex w/ well ... ... sounds like your doc has tried to get your neurotranmitters stable on welbutrin first, before introducing the lexapro ...
... joebob was on depakote for 2 weeks before starting lex ... ...anorgasmia any longer than i had it is rough, and a depressing trade-off for depression (!) ... ... from what i've read posted, i know that viagra is NOT beneficial for anorgasmia ... more like torture, they say ....
hang in there ... keep us posted .... like to know how you're doing ...
take care,
~ jimp.s. And Welcome to the pBabble message board(s) !
Great to have you join our merry band of posters and postees ... appreciate your contribution(s) and glad to have you post with us ...... ... i was about to freak out with SEs when i found this resource .... .... i have benefited immeasureable from this board and these posts ... ... i try to give back a little for how much these people have helped me ...
~ j
Posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:44:22
In reply to Re: And Up I Go! » theump, posted by Peter S. on August 5, 2003, at 22:02:08
hi Peter and theump (or should i call you "ump", theump ?)
i will be wanting to read your posts ... ... i'm in a similiar situation ... ... i'm considering bumping up ....
.... but nothing on the order you're planning, Peter ! ... it's exciting to hear it considered ... ...
... .... makes me a piker, going from 10mg to maybe 15mg ! ... ... and a chicken, because i'd likely try to increase only 1 mg per week ... .... take five weeks to get there ? ... i'm not in a big hurry ... ...thanks for your posts! ... keep 'em coming!
TAKE CARE !!
~ jim> Hi ump,
>
> We're in the same situation. I have been on Lex for 2 months. I increased to 15 and then 20mg last week and definitely noticed an effect. I increased to 25mg and last night I feel even better today. I plan to go up to 30mg. I've heard of people being on 40mg. It is just a matter of going slow. My side effects have faded pretty much completely.
>
> I'll post about how things are going. Best of luck!
>
> Peter
>
> > I started Lex about 2 months ago, taking 10mg per day. I have had no major side effects, actually nothing but the usual week long sexual effects and some teeth clenching. I've felt very, very lucky!
> >
> > However, I saw my doctor today and he wants me to up my dose to 20mg. I know I've read a lot of posts about this, but I'm going to ask again. Should I go up the full 10mg to start or should I go up to 15 and if so, for how long? And then after that time go to 20mg? I'm afraid to mess with the dose because I'm afraid of the side effects so many of you have been experiencing. But, at the same time, "the light" hasn't come on yet.
> >
> > Thank you for the advice!
>
>
Posted by guyndenver on August 6, 2003, at 0:47:55
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects » billy-b, posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:26:47
hi jim (and billy), its me again.
I guess that furthers my point about the studies and the so called results for sexual side effects. Guy, I have tried them all - effexor, wellbutrin, paxil, prosac, remeron, celexa and this list goes on. They all showed se's in me - and it's not like I didn't give them a fair shot. Wellbutrin was, perhaps, one of the worst for me. I not only experienced the so called anorgasmia but if and when I did finally reach orgasm, it was like passing razor blades it was so painful. I am very happy for those out there that are in the minority and do not experience se's (and, in spite of what the drug manufacturers say, I do believe you are in the minority). Perhaps someday there will be an answer for the rest of us!
I did find something else interesting in my browsing - don't remember the site I read it on, but apparently some docs are suggesting "drug holidays" so that if you know you are going to have sex on Saturday, stop taking the drug long enough to be able to have sex and then start back up. Sheesh! Can you imagine? So you go through withdrawls for three or four days to have sex and go through all the startup crap again? What are these docs thinking? Obviously these docs have never taken ssri's themselves!
> hi billy,
>
> you wrote:
> > Hi-This is my first posting and I am very gratefull that this forum is available as I have never taken AD's Before. About 5 weeks ago I started on wellbutrin and began to experience sexual se's right away. The last two of those 5 week's I began taking lexapro as well. From what I have read I dont need to describe the feelings one gets after being chemically castrated. Aorgasmia, as it has been called here, is one of the single most wierd things that has ever happend to my body. Yes I will give it some more time for my system to adapt but I'm doubtfull. So, for what it's worth,thats what's happening to this male who does not have a problem discussing sexual se's especially with any so-called researcher's from a drug co. Thank's I vented. Now I have to decide if the trade-off is worth it. I feel so much better now but at what expense?
> > Take Care billy
>
> i had the impression that wellbutrin got prescribed because it has good profile for sexual SEs ... ... which must reveal how little i know about wellbutrin ...
>
> ... i'd never taken any AD before lexapro ... ... can only go by what i read on the board here ... pretty common combination: lex w/ well ... ... sounds like your doc has tried to get your neurotranmitters stable on welbutrin first, before introducing the lexapro ...
> ... joebob was on depakote for 2 weeks before starting lex ... ...
>
> anorgasmia any longer than i had it is rough, and a depressing trade-off for depression (!) ... ... from what i've read posted, i know that viagra is NOT beneficial for anorgasmia ... more like torture, they say ....
>
> hang in there ... keep us posted .... like to know how you're doing ...
>
> take care,
> ~ jim
>
> p.s. And Welcome to the pBabble message board(s) !
> Great to have you join our merry band of posters and postees ... appreciate your contribution(s) and glad to have you post with us ...
>
> ... ... i was about to freak out with SEs when i found this resource .... .... i have benefited immeasureable from this board and these posts ... ... i try to give back a little for how much these people have helped me ...
> ~ j
Posted by joebob on August 6, 2003, at 12:31:21
In reply to re: And Up I Go!, posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:44:22
did the side effects last, before you could up your dose?
did they go away at lower doses or only when you upped your dose?
thanks
Posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 14:53:02
In reply to did you titrate up your lex dose, how long, posted by joebob on August 6, 2003, at 12:31:21
hi joebob,
you wrote:
> did the side effects last, before you could up your dose?
>
> did they go away at lower doses or only when you upped your dose?
>
> thanks
... ... and you're welcome ...
... sorry ... i have come up with more than one way to interpret your question ... ...... the simplest way, is to guess that you believe i have more experience changing my lexapro dosage than i have ...
... ... for instance, that plan to bump up 1 mg per week remains hypothetical ... even, bumping up at all remains very hypothetical in my world ...... i've only done lexapro and only for 5 months ... ... i've only changed my dosage 3 times and that's counting when i started ...
(note: i have very limited experience compared to many others on these boards!)
... ... i have read a considerable amount of the posts about lexapro ... ... most of what i post comes from that, not direct experiencemy dose changes versus side-effect:
1)
started march 6 at 10 mg:
change: 0 mg to 10 mg = +10 mg
SEs : oh, Yes!2)
march 7; decreased dose to 5 mg:
change: 10 mg to 5 mg = -5mg
SEs : still ...3)
april 9: 5 mg to 10 mg = +5 mg
re-creation of my starting SEs, but less intensein beginning and in april, the SEs faded to zero by week 3, although they were nearly gone by week 2 .... compared to week 1 , everything else seemed like a cake-walk ...
will report if and when i titrate up ...
... good luck
~ jimp.s. let me know if i missed your meaning there ...
Posted by collegekid on August 6, 2003, at 19:24:58
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
Hello all-
I'm a 21 year old college student about to enter her senior year. I've been dealing with depression on and off since I was 10 years old- just didn't know how to put a label on it. Today is my third day on Lexapro. I've been reading previous posts from the past and they have helped tremendously in dealing with side effects. However, my doctor also wants me to take fish oil, 1000 mg 4x a day. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is it worth it to take these fish oil pills 4x a day? And thanks to all for all the benefits I've taken from this board.
Posted by joebob on August 6, 2003, at 19:39:19
In reply to quick question, posted by collegekid on August 6, 2003, at 19:24:58
i use kirunal
but understand that you can now get omega brite again........i have not tried itthe most important thing as i understand it is the ratio of epa to dha, to avoid competition for absorption
see: dr. david horrobin on the web and
fincastle, who makes kirunal
and omega britegood luck
joebob
Posted by Kacy on August 6, 2003, at 20:08:01
In reply to quick question, posted by collegekid on August 6, 2003, at 19:24:58
Collegekid: I recommend you start lower. I could feel my heart beating too hard when I went up to three, instead of two, fish oil capsules. They were the same concentration as many of the others. Others here are taking a lot more, so it wasn't that much. I think I would have needed four or five pills to get the amount people are recommending.
Just two gave me an energy boost, though. It was fairly immediate after the third or fourth day of taking them mid-afternoon with some protein.
I've never seen anyone post this before: they caused me a lot of acne. I quit and started two more times to be sure, because I wanted to take the fish oil after all I've read. The third time it only took two days before I broke out like a teenager. I took it two more days and regretted that. I am predisposed to that and fight it all the time, but the fish oil was bad for my skin. So far it looks the same for flax oil. I'll start again soon to find out. I got some CLA to try in the meantime. (That's another oil.)
Posted by kayenna on August 6, 2003, at 20:11:02
In reply to quick question, posted by collegekid on August 6, 2003, at 19:24:58
Hello College Girl- I think it works (fish oil, that is). I have taken about the amount px'd by your doc for a year now. I was slightly cyclothemic (with some times of slight manic symptoms) and the fish oil levels me...and a good way! So good luck to you...if you trust him, you might give it a try. Besides, I haven't found any data to suggest that there's a down side.
Kay
Hello all-
> I'm a 21 year old college student about to enter her senior year. I've been dealing with depression on and off since I was 10 years old- just didn't know how to put a label on it. Today is my third day on Lexapro. I've been reading previous posts from the past and they have helped tremendously in dealing with side effects. However, my doctor also wants me to take fish oil, 1000 mg 4x a day. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is it worth it to take these fish oil pills 4x a day? And thanks to all for all the benefits I've taken from this board.
Posted by billy-b on August 6, 2003, at 22:34:56
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects » billy-b, posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:26:47
Thank's for the welcome. I have something for you here that is really pretty funny or sort of scary. I work as a home builder and I live pretty far north where it rarely reaches 80 degrees. It's pretty physical work but nothing serious. Now Ive read some posts here that wellb. can make you sweat. Yep. Just a wee bit.
I start work at 7am by 9:00 I honest to God look like I fell in a lake. My pant's and shirt are soaked and actually dripping. My hair is plasterd to my head with steady drips off of my nose, chin and ears. The funny part (I guess) is the look on the other guys faces while they stand there watching me squirt sweat. I think I read that its an adrenaline thing but geez I dont even feel hot. Yet another very wierd thing this stuff is doing to my body. Get dizzy to. Bad deal for my kinda work. Im going to stick this out awhile but I dont see me using this much longer. Wait and see I guess. Thanks again. Peace Billy
Posted by theump on August 6, 2003, at 23:52:08
In reply to re: And Up I Go!, posted by lil' jimi on August 6, 2003, at 0:44:22
Hi Peter and Jim,
I'll let you go first and see what happens when you raise your dose, how's that sound? Just kidding. It just really scares me, I'll hope I have the luck Peter did with raising his dose. I have a big weekend planned so I think I'll wait till Monday to start making the change.
I'll keep you posted,
Renee - aka "theump" (because I umpire adult slowpitch softball and girls fastpitch softball), you can call me either. ;)
> hi Peter and theump (or should i call you "ump", theump ?)
>
> i will be wanting to read your posts ... ... i'm in a similiar situation ... ... i'm considering bumping up ....
> .... but nothing on the order you're planning, Peter ! ... it's exciting to hear it considered ... ...
> ... .... makes me a piker, going from 10mg to maybe 15mg ! ... ... and a chicken, because i'd likely try to increase only 1 mg per week ... .... take five weeks to get there ? ... i'm not in a big hurry ... ...
>
> thanks for your posts! ... keep 'em coming!
> TAKE CARE !!
> ~ jim
>
> > Hi ump,
> >
> > We're in the same situation. I have been on Lex for 2 months. I increased to 15 and then 20mg last week and definitely noticed an effect. I increased to 25mg and last night I feel even better today. I plan to go up to 30mg. I've heard of people being on 40mg. It is just a matter of going slow. My side effects have faded pretty much completely.
> >
> > I'll post about how things are going. Best of luck!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > > I started Lex about 2 months ago, taking 10mg per day. I have had no major side effects, actually nothing but the usual week long sexual effects and some teeth clenching. I've felt very, very lucky!
> > >
> > > However, I saw my doctor today and he wants me to up my dose to 20mg. I know I've read a lot of posts about this, but I'm going to ask again. Should I go up the full 10mg to start or should I go up to 15 and if so, for how long? And then after that time go to 20mg? I'm afraid to mess with the dose because I'm afraid of the side effects so many of you have been experiencing. But, at the same time, "the light" hasn't come on yet.
> > >
> > > Thank you for the advice!
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by lil' jimi on August 7, 2003, at 0:49:07
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects, posted by billy-b on August 6, 2003, at 22:34:56
hi Billy,
the sweats are a common lexapro SE ... not real socially acceptable either ... ... wake me up at night even ...
... ... it's like it's testing the systems that connect our sweat glands to our neurotransmitters ... ... ?... "Hello, down there! We want a big bucket of sweat from you now to test this interactive neurological communications link out here and make sure you are online there... Okay? .... Okay ... now, SWEAT !!!" ... ...
... never taken wellbutrin; guessing it's similiar ... ...
... ... these kind of meds can take time to adapt to ... ... sometimes it can take a month or more ... and typicially these initial SEs fade ...
... ... mine have faded to nothing ... not everybody's so lucky ....
.... ... hope you are or will be ...
... hang in there ...~ jim
p.s. to be on the safe(r) side, drink LOTS of non-caffeniated fluids, especially water ... ... sweats can lead to dehydration; meds give us dehydration too; dehydration can cause dizziness ... ... be careful!
~ j
Posted by trauma queen on August 7, 2003, at 1:02:03
In reply to re: And Up I Go!, posted by theump on August 6, 2003, at 23:52:08
Greetings and salutations!
Wow, what an interesting board this is. I have spent an entire day reading about Lexapro and then about the people that post here. I have gained some very valuable insight into my own experiences with severe depression/anxiety as well as this medication Lexapro that I started two weeks ago after I, myself, seemed to hit rock bottom.
Short hx...I am 32, a nurse, a perfectionist, and consider myself to be an intelligent human being...up to this point have been very resistant to taking medication or getting help. Was really hoping I could just "get thru it", "grow out of it", or that it was just a PHASE I was going thru. Little did I realize that all the stress in my life was slowly killing me and I wasn't as strong as I thought I could be. My ultimate point of weakness ended me up in the ER, Baker Acted, being fed charcoal and heaving into a pink pan. No one was allowed to talk to me, not that I remember much and could have benefited. The next day I was sent to a mental health facility...feeling like I didn't belong there amongst all those "crazy people" but then acutely aware that yes, I was one of them. I spoke with a wonderful nurse and social worker that helped me realize that many "professionals" end up there, I am not alone. They let me go the next day, and I was never as happy to be alive as I was the minute I walked out of that place with my supportive boyfriend.
My mom, the best in the world, flew down to be with me, as I moved out of my boyfriend's house into my own apt, to get my life back and get better.
I started on Lexapro about 30 minutes before I left the hospital two weeks ago. I had many of the symptoms you all have described...nausea, headaches, not eating or being hungry, having the taste of death in my mouth, insomnia (which i treated with 25mg Benadryl before bed) and the worst was the feeling of "subcutaneous anxiety"--the feeling that I could just JUMP out of my skin at any given moment! Also, very ACHY--constantly making me want to STREEETCH. An uncomfortable feeling, really. BUT!! You would not believe how happy I became!! I don't know if it's because my mom came to help me and I was SO happy to have her, SO happy to have my own place again!! NOW, I am not that happy as I was...but definitely NOT depressed or anxious. Very mellow actually... Very chill... It's a much welcome reprieve from the CRAZINESS that was inside my head two weeks ago.
MY PROBLEM NOW...is that I have little motivation...as I have heard others speak of. The last week has been spent sleeping 12 or more hrs a day. I have spent a few days isolating myself, not going out, not wanting to be with people...just staying at home, on the computer, with my cats, or on the phone, or reading an entire Danielle Steele novel in one day. Yesterday, I actually went to Lollapalooza with my friends, was a little nervous about how people would treat me, who would know what happened...cause as you know...word gets out... But I sang along quite heartily to Incubus--every song seemed to be written for me (or by me!) and had a super time despite the fact that it was AFRICA HOT outside!
But this feeling of low motivation could possibly thwart my recovery...I am wondering if 10mg a day is not enough...or should I just wait it out... After all...it's only been 2 wks.
Thank you for your courage and wisdom thus far...I hope I can be a benevolent addition to your group!
TraumaQueen aka Tari Anne
Posted by lil' jimi on August 7, 2003, at 1:16:30
In reply to re: And Up I Go!, posted by theump on August 6, 2003, at 23:52:08
hi Renee and Peter,
you crack me up !!
... i already said i was a chicken ... you can go first ... heh, heh ...
... i think the lights are on .... but, hey, i'm a thrill seeker, right? ... ... maybe the lights can be brighter ... how would i know without trying ? .... .... i could talk myself into this if i keep this up ....
... ... on a lighter note ...
... how about we set up a betting pool to wager on certain pBabble events ?possible contenders?
... ... when will so-and-so quit their latest/start their next med?
... ... will so-and-so go back to such-and-such old med?
... ... when will so-and-so get their (next) PCB?
... ... when will the (whichever is the then current) latest drama at Admin die down?... and in our case,
... Who will bump up their Lexapro first ?
... Renee the Ump
... OR
... lil' jimi (aka "Just Plain Jim")
.... ???????got to be some way to make money out of this! ... i'm telling ya !
take care everybody!
~ jim
> Hi Peter and Jim,
>
> I'll let you go first and see what happens when you raise your dose, how's that sound? Just kidding. It just really scares me, I'll hope I have the luck Peter did with raising his dose. I have a big weekend planned so I think I'll wait till Monday to start making the change.
>
> I'll keep you posted,
>
> Renee - aka "theump" (because I umpire adult slowpitch softball and girls fastpitch softball), you can call me either. ;)
>
>
> > hi Peter and theump (or should i call you "ump", theump ?)
> >
> > i will be wanting to read your posts ... ... i'm in a similiar situation ... ... i'm considering bumping up ....
> > .... but nothing on the order you're planning, Peter ! ... it's exciting to hear it considered ... ...
> > ... .... makes me a piker, going from 10mg to maybe 15mg ! ... ... and a chicken, because i'd likely try to increase only 1 mg per week ... .... take five weeks to get there ? ... i'm not in a big hurry ... ...
> >
> > thanks for your posts! ... keep 'em coming!
> > TAKE CARE !!
> > ~ jim
> >
> > > Hi ump,
> > >
> > > We're in the same situation. I have been on Lex for 2 months. I increased to 15 and then 20mg last week and definitely noticed an effect. I increased to 25mg and last night I feel even better today. I plan to go up to 30mg. I've heard of people being on 40mg. It is just a matter of going slow. My side effects have faded pretty much completely.
> > >
> > > I'll post about how things are going. Best of luck!
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > > I started Lex about 2 months ago, taking 10mg per day. I have had no major side effects, actually nothing but the usual week long sexual effects and some teeth clenching. I've felt very, very lucky!
> > > >
> > > > However, I saw my doctor today and he wants me to up my dose to 20mg. I know I've read a lot of posts about this, but I'm going to ask again. Should I go up the full 10mg to start or should I go up to 15 and if so, for how long? And then after that time go to 20mg? I'm afraid to mess with the dose because I'm afraid of the side effects so many of you have been experiencing. But, at the same time, "the light" hasn't come on yet.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the advice!
Posted by lil' jimi on August 7, 2003, at 1:49:28
In reply to new to Lexapro AND babbling..., posted by trauma queen on August 7, 2003, at 1:02:03
hi Tari Anne,
it's wonderful to have you join us ... let me welcome you .... !
W E L C O M E ! ! ! ! ... glad to have you !
> Greetings and salutations!
>
> Wow, what an interesting board this is. I have spent an entire day reading about Lexapro and then about the people that post here. I have gained some very valuable insight into my own experiences with severe depression/anxiety as well as this medication Lexapro that I started two weeks ago after I, myself, seemed to hit rock bottom.
>
> Short hx...I am 32, a nurse, a perfectionist, and consider myself to be an intelligent human being...up to this point have been very resistant to taking medication or getting help. Was really hoping I could just "get thru it", "grow out of it", or that it was just a PHASE I was going thru. Little did I realize that all the stress in my life was slowly killing me and I wasn't as strong as I thought I could be. My ultimate point of weakness ended me up in the ER, Baker Acted, being fed charcoal and heaving into a pink pan. No one was allowed to talk to me, not that I remember much and could have benefited. The next day I was sent to a mental health facility...feeling like I didn't belong there amongst all those "crazy people" but then acutely aware that yes, I was one of them. I spoke with a wonderful nurse and social worker that helped me realize that many "professionals" end up there, I am not alone. They let me go the next day, and I was never as happy to be alive as I was the minute I walked out of that place with my supportive boyfriend.
>
> My mom, the best in the world, flew down to be with me, as I moved out of my boyfriend's house into my own apt, to get my life back and get better.
>
> I started on Lexapro about 30 minutes before I left the hospital two weeks ago. I had many of the symptoms you all have described...nausea, headaches, not eating or being hungry, having the taste of death in my mouth, insomnia (which i treated with 25mg Benadryl before bed) and the worst was the feeling of "subcutaneous anxiety"--the feeling that I could just JUMP out of my skin at any given moment! Also, very ACHY--constantly making me want to STREEETCH. An uncomfortable feeling, really. BUT!! You would not believe how happy I became!! I don't know if it's because my mom came to help me and I was SO happy to have her, SO happy to have my own place again!! NOW, I am not that happy as I was...but definitely NOT depressed or anxious. Very mellow actually... Very chill... It's a much welcome reprieve from the CRAZINESS that was inside my head two weeks ago.
>
> MY PROBLEM NOW...is that I have little motivation...as I have heard others speak of. The last week has been spent sleeping 12 or more hrs a day. I have spent a few days isolating myself, not going out, not wanting to be with people...just staying at home, on the computer, with my cats, or on the phone, or reading an entire Danielle Steele novel in one day. Yesterday, I actually went to Lollapalooza with my friends, was a little nervous about how people would treat me, who would know what happened...cause as you know...word gets out... But I sang along quite heartily to Incubus--every song seemed to be written for me (or by me!) and had a super time despite the fact that it was AFRICA HOT outside!
>
> But this feeling of low motivation could possibly thwart my recovery...I am wondering if 10mg a day is not enough...or should I just wait it out... After all...it's only been 2 wks.
>
> Thank you for your courage and wisdom thus far...I hope I can be a benevolent addition to your group!
> TraumaQueen aka Tari Anne... ... pleasure to read your post ... thank you ...
.... .... "two weeks" says a lot about this to me, because it might not be enough time yet
... but it might be !
... ... if i was deciding this right now for me
... i'd wait a week and then titrate up
... ... the stout-of-heart might bump up all the way... but hey, that's me ... and i may be wrong
... ... also. i've been talking myself into going up to 15 mg ... ... i might ! ... might not ... ...
... so anyway, this dilemma may tinge my view of what you should do ... ... ... probably ... ... maybe not ...
... wish i was better help ... ...... oh, and, you babble great ... look forward to your posts !
TAKE CARE !!
~ jim
Posted by tm on August 7, 2003, at 7:22:49
In reply to quick question, posted by collegekid on August 6, 2003, at 19:24:58
>I started taking Flax seed oil about 11 months ago. I was taking it for Chloresterol. I take a Tbls. a day. That would be equal to 9 1000mg tablets a day. Now I started that before I started suffering from anxiety this past March. So your ? reminded me about the mental benefits, so I looked back at my research at Barleans.com and other places. It suggested that I may not be taken enough. I'm going to up my dose to 2 Tbls. a day and see what happens and go from there. I don't know if this helps, but I sure would try it. Fish oil and Flax are very similar. I had no SE's from the Flax. Thanks for the question, because it reminded me of the benefits. I hope it works for you! Take care Tim
Hello all-
> I'm a 21 year old college student about to enter her senior year. I've been dealing with depression on and off since I was 10 years old- just didn't know how to put a label on it. Today is my third day on Lexapro. I've been reading previous posts from the past and they have helped tremendously in dealing with side effects. However, my doctor also wants me to take fish oil, 1000 mg 4x a day. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is it worth it to take these fish oil pills 4x a day? And thanks to all for all the benefits I've taken from this board.
Posted by mph-speedy on August 7, 2003, at 7:52:50
In reply to re: new to Lexapro AND babbling... » trauma queen, posted by lil' jimi on August 7, 2003, at 1:49:28
Hey Trauma Queen -
Whoa! is that a self imposed moniker or did someone else christine you? Anyway, I have been on lex since mid-May 2003. Very few side effects except for the good kind. Your experience getting there interests me and your concern about others thoughts on your "condition". I could have been where you were and probably would have had I waited a week or so to get treatment. As it is, only three people know I'm being treated - my doc, my boss (who is a friend), and my significant other (thought he should know in case I was in a car wreck or something). Anyway, here's a question to all -- how much do you share with family, friends, the world?
Speedy
Posted by aloe on August 7, 2003, at 9:28:37
In reply to re: lexapro's sexual and anxiety side effects, posted by guyndenver on August 6, 2003, at 0:47:55
Hi all-
I just found this group while I was doing some investigating into the drugs my doc has me trying. It's been helpful to see the posts, but I've got to tell you that I am now doubtful if I want to take this stuff at all. He started me on 5 mg lexapro for depression and anxiety, and had me up the dose to 10 mg after a week or so of no results. I felt so good! Finally! Only one little problem.. anorgasmia. Talk about mental torture. I'm too young! But otherwhise I felt so happy and wonderful. I told my doc and he suggested I stop the lexapro and try Effexor XR. Normal sexual function returned for about two days while I had stopped the lexapro and was starting the effexor xr. I've been on the effexor xr (I'm at 150mg now, working up to 225 mg) for about a week now and haven't had a chance to check out the sexual side effects, but after reading all the horrible side effects of effexor xr and how giving the lexapro a couple weeks seemed to help I'm now so confused about if I should have switched. I've been down in the dumps since I switched a week ago, but I guess I should give Effexor SR some time. Then again, from reading the Effexor posts it sounds like I'm stuck on this stuff for the rest of my life unless I want horrible withdrawal effects. Now I'm thinking I'd rather just be depressed instead of being an anorgasmic AD addict. Has anyone else gone through this? Sorry to ramble, but I'm new to this anti-depressant meds stuff. Any input would be wonderful.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2003, at 12:29:18
In reply to Re: Lexapro Withdrawal Dizziness, posted by Bela on August 5, 2003, at 15:00:18
> Since there has been considerable discussion about withdrawal problems with Lexapro, I am curious as to whether anyone has read either Joseph Glenmullen's book, "Prozac Backlash"...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by trauma queen on August 7, 2003, at 13:56:30
In reply to re: new to Lexapro AND babbling... » trauma queen, posted by lil' jimi on August 7, 2003, at 1:49:28
lil Jimi...
thank you for your kind welcome... i have especially enjoyed reading all you, Jimi, have to say with such amazing humor! I love when i can actually LOL to what people write...I am fond of your wittiness and awesome rapport with your fellow humankind... You go BOY! :)
>.... .... "two weeks" says a lot about this to >me, because it might not be enough time yet
> ... but it might be !
> ... ... if i was deciding this right now for me
> ... i'd wait a week and then titrate up
> ... ... the stout-of-heart might bump up all the way
>
> ... but hey, that's me ... and i may be wrong
> ... ... also. i've been talking myself into going up to 15 mg ... ... i might ! ... might not ... ...
> ... so anyway, this dilemma may tinge my view of what you should do ... ... ... probably ... ... maybe not ...
> ... wish i was better help ... ...
Jimi...you are more help than you know. You lend validation to my dilemma because you are ALSO having the same dilemma. I have the same thoughts as you...wait it out...bump it up to 15mg.....maybe...maybe not. My actual worry is that I DON'T HAVE INSURANCE! And this one month of Lexapro cost me $75...BUT, we have a wonderful thing called "Discount Drugs of Canada" down here in South Florida and I think I will check their prices out. Plus I DON'T have a "pdoc" (love that abbreviation, by the way--should be added to Shar's lingo link) The pdoc that saw me in the mental health place could barely speak English, looked off into other directions when I was speaking with him for the first time and showed absolutely no respect or compassion towards me. It was horrible. I will definitely NOT be stopping the Lexapro though...it has really saved me...How long have you been at 10mg??
thank you thank you thank you...
Tari Anne
> hi Tari Anne,
>
> it's wonderful to have you join us ... let me welcome you .... !
>
> W E L C O M E ! ! ! ! ... glad to have you !
>
> > Greetings and salutations!
> >
> > Wow, what an interesting board this is. I have spent an entire day reading about Lexapro and then about the people that post here. I have gained some very valuable insight into my own experiences with severe depression/anxiety as well as this medication Lexapro that I started two weeks ago after I, myself, seemed to hit rock bottom.
> >
> > Short hx...I am 32, a nurse, a perfectionist, and consider myself to be an intelligent human being...up to this point have been very resistant to taking medication or getting help. Was really hoping I could just "get thru it", "grow out of it", or that it was just a PHASE I was going thru. Little did I realize that all the stress in my life was slowly killing me and I wasn't as strong as I thought I could be. My ultimate point of weakness ended me up in the ER, Baker Acted, being fed charcoal and heaving into a pink pan. No one was allowed to talk to me, not that I remember much and could have benefited. The next day I was sent to a mental health facility...feeling like I didn't belong there amongst all those "crazy people" but then acutely aware that yes, I was one of them. I spoke with a wonderful nurse and social worker that helped me realize that many "professionals" end up there, I am not alone. They let me go the next day, and I was never as happy to be alive as I was the minute I walked out of that place with my supportive boyfriend.
> >
> > My mom, the best in the world, flew down to be with me, as I moved out of my boyfriend's house into my own apt, to get my life back and get better.
> >
> > I started on Lexapro about 30 minutes before I left the hospital two weeks ago. I had many of the symptoms you all have described...nausea, headaches, not eating or being hungry, having the taste of death in my mouth, insomnia (which i treated with 25mg Benadryl before bed) and the worst was the feeling of "subcutaneous anxiety"--the feeling that I could just JUMP out of my skin at any given moment! Also, very ACHY--constantly making me want to STREEETCH. An uncomfortable feeling, really. BUT!! You would not believe how happy I became!! I don't know if it's because my mom came to help me and I was SO happy to have her, SO happy to have my own place again!! NOW, I am not that happy as I was...but definitely NOT depressed or anxious. Very mellow actually... Very chill... It's a much welcome reprieve from the CRAZINESS that was inside my head two weeks ago.
> >
> > MY PROBLEM NOW...is that I have little motivation...as I have heard others speak of. The last week has been spent sleeping 12 or more hrs a day. I have spent a few days isolating myself, not going out, not wanting to be with people...just staying at home, on the computer, with my cats, or on the phone, or reading an entire Danielle Steele novel in one day. Yesterday, I actually went to Lollapalooza with my friends, was a little nervous about how people would treat me, who would know what happened...cause as you know...word gets out... But I sang along quite heartily to Incubus--every song seemed to be written for me (or by me!) and had a super time despite the fact that it was AFRICA HOT outside!
> >
> > But this feeling of low motivation could possibly thwart my recovery...I am wondering if 10mg a day is not enough...or should I just wait it out... After all...it's only been 2 wks.
> >
> > Thank you for your courage and wisdom thus far...I hope I can be a benevolent addition to your group!
> > TraumaQueen aka Tari Anne
>
> ... ... pleasure to read your post ... thank you ...
>
>
>
> ... oh, and, you babble great ... look forward to your posts !
>
> TAKE CARE !!
> ~ jim
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.