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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by KimberlyDi on July 24, 2003, at 17:06:20
In reply to Re: KDI, didn't know you felt this way » KimberlyDi, posted by mercedes on July 24, 2003, at 16:26:06
Mercedes
Heck yes I feel this way, why do you think I'm on Effexor? <grin> I've always been painfully shy and insecure. Eating disorder since age 16 (I'm 34 now). I seem to have a weakness for abusive men who confirm how I feel. "Stupid drunk b*tch". Oh yeah, did I mention alcoholic? It runs in my familiy (alcoholism) from both sets of grandparents. I had been so down for the past few years that when Effexor shut up the bad thoughts, I was extremely grateful. The heavy blanket of fear and anxiety that weighed me down every day was lifted. Well, it all started to come back when I ran low on Effexor and had to take half dosages to last until I got a refill. So lately, I've been more in touch with all my fears. Thanks for your kind message. :)
KDi in TexasP.S. Believe it or not, but I am a very intelligent person. I usually do an outstanding job at work and now they expect it as the *norm*. I'm constantly afraid of failure.
Posted by willie on July 24, 2003, at 17:12:42
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hey buddy....WOW!! It just keeps on coming doesn't it? I hope things are okay with your dad, I'll keep both you and he in my prayers.
I agree that the reason you are shutting down is a way of your body/mind protecting itself. It just can't deal with anything more right now. Don't think yourself as weird or cold. I've shut down before and I know the thoughts running through your mind. My concern is that when you shut yourself off from feeling negative emotion you're also shutting yourself off from positive emotion as well. You can't feel the good if you don't feel the bad.
Please don't fall into a deeper depression..I've see progress in you the past few days. If you need to yell...yell at us (or at least me). Open up to us Cher..don't shut down completely okay?
The beauty of this cyber friendship is that we can be totally honest with each other, tell our darkest secrets and fears without feeling that we are being judged. There is unconditional acceptance here. No matter what you are going through, there will be someone here that has been through something similiar and is ready to listen. How precious a gift is that?
We can become the closest of friends yet walk by each other on the street without recognizing one another. I feel that I can tell you guys things that I could never tell anyone. You guys will know the "real" me.
I'm sure we all have these mental pictures of what one another looks like. Thanks to Susy I'll have to change my image of her to having brown hair now (ha ha).
Willie
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:17:30
In reply to Re: personal thoughts » CherC68, posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 15:15:47
Dear Zinya,
I hope that you can understand this - I just went through and answered the best way I could and its a bit jumbled, like most of my thoughts in my head.
My parents used to always watched Johnny Carson and that night I could hear him on the TV and I layed there in bed when the panic attack happened and could hear the TV in the living room getting louder and louder and the noises getting faster and faster and that being chased feeling was inside me and it was horrible. Yes, even at 4 I remember it like it was yesterday.
We lived in Roseland at the time in an 2 story apartment and my brother Jack was two years old. I'm the oldest. When I was 13 my mother had another baby (my baby or so I thought) Danny.
Until I was 14 I had a split between my two front teeth and I used to suck my thumb to hide it, the split eventually grew together. When I was 12 I had a tonsilectomy because since I was a baby I had tonsilitis a few times a year and my tonsils were rotted. Because of the high fevers I endured for the first 12 years of my life and constant sore throat, I didn't brush my teeth when I was sick and that would usually be at least a week in bed a few times a year.
So, I had a lot of cavities and I hated the dentist so much that I thought if I brushed my teeth several times a day I wouldn't get them. After the tri-geminal neuralgia I had I upped the brushing so I would never have to go to the dentist again, but...I also used brushing my teeth as a form of weight loss, you know - who eats right after brushing their teeth?
As far as the hyper-adrenalin thing, I have no clue - my internist was a new doctor and the only thing I told him was that I was having panic attacks and that I thought I was having a heart attack and my hands were killing me and that I was feeling down because of it. I had the stress test, the EMG of my hands and he prescribed the Zoloft and then a month later the Effexor. He knows nothing about the adrenalin thing or the Borderline Personality.
I was told when I was little that I had a high case of adrenalin. My strength - lifting and my pain tolerance is more than most people and a doctor explained to my mother that my body made more adrenalin than most people. My mother witnessed me get into a fist fight with a grown up woman when I was only 11 when this lady grabbed me and tried to strike me I woooped her butt. My father seen me get into a fight
with a high school kid that was supposedly a brown belt in front of a karate studio once and I kicked his butt too (I was only in 7th grade)!
I'm not proud that I'm "tough" - I've taken some beatings, but....you can only get picked on so much and take so much crap before you fight back. And, where I lived, you had to fight or die trying. I also could lift more weight than most of the guys in my grade and my leg power was extreme. The feeling of adrenalin rushing through my body could come over a dirty look a mean comment to me. I've never gotten angy because things didn't go my way, only if someone was mean to another person and then finally if someone was mean to me.I have to learned to control my temper and try to never show it because if I get too much adrenalin flowing in my body I am afraid of permanently hurting someone.
I was told I had Borderline Personality and I had to go to a group therapy meeting and I showed up in a room with a bunch of people sitting a circle. I didn't know anyone then the shrink came in called my name and dropped three different boxes with medications for me on the table in front of everyone. One was buspar - the other two I cannot remember the name of now - but I was so humiliated - I picked up the meds looked at them then I got up and walked out and told the shrink he was an a**hole and get scre**** and dropped the meds on the ground and never looked back.
I was dating a chiropractor (well to me he was a proctologist) at the time and he made fun of me being "borderline personality" - I never chased guys or threatened them with harm to myself or stalked them - i just didn't trust them and without trust got tired of them and gave them the boot quick. I told him the names of the meds and he told me one was an antipsycotic - and joked some more but I don't remember the name of it now.
The reason I started to go through the pamphlets on it was maybe to see if there was an alternate treatment besides meds. I do know that sexual assault can contribute to BPD, but...am now just starting to really look into what Borderline Personality really is.
Some of the things look a lot like manic depressive to me, so I don't know, and until I start therapy, etc. I won't know.
As far as my father goes, he goes in to the clinic at 11:00 and they will be taking pictures of his prostate and then he will have a biopsy. Seems my mother doesn't really want to get into the details about it - I guess like me - trying not to think about it. He's going to be 65 and works manual labor at a plant and my mother doesn't work. He has been working 6-7 days a week for a few months now and when he was 60 years old he worked 65 weeks straight (7 days a week) without a day off except two weeks vacations. Manual labor doesn't make much money and to survive, he had not much choice but to take any and all overtime especially since he had seniority.
I feel so bad, because he hasn't had much breaks in his life, no vacations except one when we were really little we went to wisconsin, but...he just works, makes money, eats, sleeps and work. He cannot retire yet because when he retires my mother will be left with no health insurance. She's been trying for a year now to get a job, but since she's 58 and hasn't worked since I was 8, nobody will hire her.
I think my unworthy feelings are part borderline and part the fact that many people feel this way. I don't think unworthy feelings has a name or a disease or an imbalance. I honestly think everyone is messed up in their own way and there is no normal person and when I think that way - sometimes it helps me get through the day. I just have to remember that I'm okay, and that this is life and I need to get used to the ups which aren't much and all the downs.
Well hands are clamboring for ice and husband is on his way home from work.
Again, Zinya & everyone thank you for listening (bet you all can't wait till I get a therapist so I can lay this crap on him/her).
Love,
Cher
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:21:40
In reply to Re: Oh you guys...., posted by tray on July 24, 2003, at 16:57:35
Tracy,
Thank you so very much and I will pray for you and all the other posters.
I hope you get out of your dark place and only have sunny days ahead.
Hugs,
Cher
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:40:08
In reply to Re: KDI, didn't know you felt this way » mercedes, posted by KimberlyDi on July 24, 2003, at 17:06:20
Dear Kimberly,
Thanks for sharing with us. You do seem so put together on here, and I hope that you really are starting to feel it deep down.
Do you know what I mean? Sometimes I can be put together and go to work and act like nothing is wrong, and I can be the strong one, and take care of everything, but inside I'm not - inside I'm horrible. Also the fear of failure for me is strong too.
My husband just recently really seen how bad I am getting, but you guys seen it first - before anyone els. He knew I was feeling "blue" - but not to this extent.
I just hope some of the posters here realize that its great to share happy experiences and notes to just say they are doing well and their meds are working. I just wish I had more happy thoughts to share lol!
I do understand though, I was just chit chatting away with a neighbor like nothing was wrong with me - but...the thoughts in the head are so not happy. On the outside I look happy, energetic etc. that if you met me on the street you wouldn't know how miserable I am, but you all here know my insides.
KDi, if you ever have self doubts or just a bad moments, please know that we will be there for you. But, god, its very nice when you post and you are so level, it gives me hope.
Love,
Cher
Posted by Susy on July 24, 2003, at 17:46:49
In reply to Re: Cher, posted by willie on July 24, 2003, at 17:12:42
Hey Willie, I wish I could write as nice as you do!
Susy
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:47:32
In reply to Re: Cher, posted by willie on July 24, 2003, at 17:12:42
Dear Willie,
How are you doing? I am fine, and now that there is real trauma going on in my life, I will probably level off. I have to snap out of this depression to get through the days ahead, because I cannot be a basket case.
Having the guys home is helping. All of you are helping.
I promise that after I see the hand surgeon Monday I will spend my Tuesday calling PDoc's and therapists.
How are you doing? It seems you are helping more people than getting help here (kind of like Kimberly & Mercedes (that wonderful driving lady).
Seems you work a lot, which could be good. I'm thinking if I went back to a job full-time I may be too busy to be depressed, but....don't know if I can stand working a full eight hour day once a week let alone five days of eight hours shifts.
Please know I'm okay, and let me know how you are doing. I think I need to concentrate on other things besides me.
Love,
Cher
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:49:06
In reply to Re: Willie, posted by Susy on July 24, 2003, at 17:46:49
Posted by mercedes on July 24, 2003, at 18:21:14
In reply to Re: Are we all Pleasers w/men who are Controllers? » Yankeegirl, posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 16:03:20
I just had to go back and resurrect this subject, specially since I was interested in KDI's comment referred to in my previous note. And Yankee girl, I don't know why I didn't respond to you then. Maybe cuz I'm not in that situaltion anymore, or am I.......psycologically?
Yes, I too was a pleaser (subserviant wifey) w/a controlling, abusive husband. Fortunatly, I got out of the marriage after only three years AND a life sentence from his belittling me, degrading me, making me feel inadequate, not pretty enough, skinny enough, you name it, I wasn't it. This was over 20 years ago. I look at pictures of that era and I was a raving beauty-really! But did I feel that way - absolutly not.
I couldn't talk to my family about his abusiveness both physically and emotionally. I was brought up the old fashioned way, married till death do you part. Well, this was another time I had thoughts of suicide. Till Death do us part? ok, I can fix that. I actually had a gun pointed at my temple 2 separate times but my relegious beliefs kept me from pulling the trigger. I worked and he never so much as boiled water let alone help around the house. He never hit me in the face but he would pull my hair and throw me accross the room. My scalp would bleed and tons of hair came off. Next day I'd go to work and just moving my eyebrows would hurt so bad. Once I had to work on Sat and he didn't. He waited till I got home so's I could make him a sandwich. I guess I had a hair up my a** and said, make it yourself. I didn't quite get past the front door when he kicked me in the knee, threw me accross the room from my hair, had his finger in my face, "you're going to do as I say!". I wish I'd known about arsenic then, I would have loved to make him a bolony and arsenic sandwich. I culdn't walk for about two weeks but I made it to work. Oh yea, had to.
We separated once in those three years but got back together, with the "sorry's" and "I'll never do it again" shit. Peace of crap sentences that meant nothing. Actually it meant, come back to me, so's you can clean the house, buy the food you are going to cook for me, so's you can work so's I can buy big ol tires for my truck, cook for me again, have sex when I want it, let me degrade you some more, and when I want, I can hit you and beat you so's I can feel like a MAN! Tan-ta-rraa! (Fuc**r!).
Thanks to my mom-n-law, I left him for good after 3 yrs and a life sentence of feeling that I was no good, not worth being treated good. I met "good" men in my late 20's and 30's. Had long lasting relationships. But I guess my motto was, treat me good and I leave you eventually, treat me bad and I'll stay around longer.
My WANT AD for a man would read "Man wanted, preferably in a walker, so's if yu get ruf with me, I'll just kick your walker over."
Anyway, when did I start with my anxiety, PTSD, depression, not being social, agoraphobic? No, not after being raped, no, not while being married, no, not after adopting two "older 6 & 9" boys that degraded me, verbally abused me and one even put me in the DCS court system....(More on that later). Musta been from childhood, cause I had mean dad and a subserviant mom. God bless them, they are both deceased and I hold no anger towards them although I did at one time.
One of my boy's therapists once told me that I choose the men in my life cause I've been trying to find the man (or kid's) that my dad wasn't. Make sense? Oh, guess I have to tell about my childhood, which I can hardly remember having one. And that my dad commited suicide, or "completed" f'n suicide, whatever. That's been my excuse when I think of doing it, It runs in the family...HA!
I'm exhausted!
mercedes
********************************
> YankeeGirl,
> You seem remarkably self-aware of what's bothering you for someone that hasn't been to counseling yet. That's a plus. I am with a Controlling man. We work together, carpool together, live together, sleep together. I insist on taking my baths alone. My husband was the main force driving me to treatment. Fear. The weaker I am, the more abusive he gets. I had to get my act together to protect myself. He's not sure what to think about the new me.
> KDi in Texas
>
> > I've been on Effexor for about 4 weeks, but haven't had any counseling from the physchiatrist yet, and I go over the phych testing tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to talk about my issues yet. When my child graduated high school in 2000 I thought "now I'll have more time to..." and I could not remember for the life of me what it was I used to like to do. Last month my baby graduated and I think my reaction was "I spent 24 years raising them, did a great job in spite of how stressful and overwhelming it was, and now can collapse. One afternoon, I was distraught and agonizing and crying over the thought of having to make dinner. When I added that to the realization that I had no identity anymore, that I had gradually given up pieces of myself to make my husband happy, who critized everything I ever did, that is when I realized I needed help. I've been reading a book by Dr. Kevin Leman called "The Pleasers - Women Who Can't Say No - And the Men Who Control Them (sorry Dr. Bob I don't know how to do that highlighting thing). This post is long enough without going into more details. I'm wondering ---- how many of you see yourselves in this same situation with a controlling man????? Yankeegirl
>
>
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 18:22:18
In reply to Re: personal thoughts » zinya, posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 17:17:30
thanks, Cher, for being so willing to elaborate on such matters... i'm happy to be an ear and only wish i knew more to be able to have more of a familiarity with BPD, but i very much appreciate your giving examples and being so open... The only thing i would say about BPD is that, I hear you saying you feel like it fits but i know from my own experience that doctors will often glibly give labels to a diagnosis that may or may not be on target. I think it will be good for you to find a therapist who is already familiar with BPD, if possible, because you will be entering with that conviction and it would be really good if the therapist has a familiarity to help you confirm as well as have ideas about dealing with it. (Do i gather that you are saying the diagnosis of BPD came before any sexual assault? although i gather you might also be saying that certainly could have aggravated it?)
I TOTALLY agree with you about 'normal'. I've even said for years - and even to students as well - that i think the word and concept of 'normal' would be better not existing -- I think it does much more harm than good. I recall even before my misguided marriage, that long ago, using a sort of mantra to myself that i would 'joke' about that i was happily abnormal cuz who wanted to be 'normal' !! AH, if ONLY i had really believed that deep down. It was more of a 'cover' and wish that i would feel that way. But it took certainly all the years of that marriage and probably double that before i even remotely began to strip away (and still stripping) layers of external expectations i had internalized ...
boy, i read your exploits (! :) standing up for yourself and others in fights and think more than ever i was such a 'wimp' growing up -- i had a LOT of fears ... and even both a physical imbalance (apparently inner ear injury from a car accident at age 6) plus fears probably triggered by the accident itself that may have been why i never even learned to ride a bike. I was too "unstable" physically and it was but one of a lot of senses of fear. I covered them all up though and pretended to be socially at ease though i lived in terror of such things as somebody wanting me to go bike-riding with them. With swimming i had a similar early scare -- and come to think of it, it had a bit of the element of what happened when that shrink came in and abruptly slapped down your 3 meds. One summer, the year after our auto accident, we moved to a new city to 'start over' and with all-new friends i was in a swimming class, already older than others cuz i'd been sort of shuttled during the year of my parents' recovering from the auto accident - both had nearly died ... (but me in the back seat only bounced my head against the roof - and only later discovered that inner-ear result) Anyway, this very abrupt swim coach would pick us up in the air, tell us to pretend we were airplanes and then he would "launch" us into the water. Well, it kind of terrified me. I couldn't admit to any of those terrors, but i just avoided swimming and diving ... took me til my 30's before i finally dedicated myself to learning to really swim .. and loving it.
Well, that probably doesn't seem like a parallel and probably isn't, but that thing of abruptness and lack of thought for how a child is processing things which so many adults, even now, engage in -- which can make kids feel very disrespected, and retreat inside themselves.
Your 4-yr-old memory still intrigues me. Somehow i sensed you were the oldest, and i wonder how secure you felt in the family at the time. It's soooo common for oldest kids to feel insecure in the face of a second child coming along 2 yrs later and seeming to take away their sense of connection to their parents. Seems like so many possibilities of what could have triggered your sense of panic. Was that the "first" such panic? And did they then start to become periodic 'attacks'?
Again, don't feel anything i ask you requires answering, but these are (some of) my thoughts ... and more hugs and good wishes!
love,
zinyap.s. btw, i sense that you are also so sensitive to and internalizing your parents' worries -- even without this latest one with your dad -- but the economic concerns and that too is surely a kind of "background noise" adding another layer of anxiety i bet you're taking on at some level ... That cannot be easy either.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:05:55
In reply to Re: Zinya, posted by willie on July 24, 2003, at 10:35:09
> I've been keeping my eye out for her other book "Stuggle for Intimacy".
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Yes, actually. I know that this message is mighty late to the initial post, but I just wanted to add my two-cents...
Although I have less difficulties than 99% of those on this site, I can take 37.5 mg Effexor XR and be the person I want to be: stoic and unshakable yet loving and sane.
I have NO stress or issues, but without Effexor, I cannot control periods of crying and rage, which have absolutely no cause. Coming from a family of staunch stoics, that was incomprehensible and appauling.
I've taken Effexor for three years and am ready to ween myself off the drug for the reasons that follow. (Even at 37.5, I'm thinking weening down my daily dosage may be a good idea after reading these posts.)
Although I have been virtually symptom-free since my adjustment to the drug, there were some drawbacks even at mighty low dosage. At 75 mg, I stopped sleeping entirely. My blood pressure has slowly risen from 105/70 to 132/80. I am experiencing a major increase in loosing words just-on-the-tip-of-my-tongue, which is embarassing if it's someone's name or my own phone number. My sex drive was low before but nonexistant now, and with a hubby who gets... uncomfortable... after two days, that is annoying. The only other thing I've noticed is complaicency; I don't complain even when I should.
Anyway, I've enjoyed being the person I am for several years, but I think my body needs a break. Also, I hope that I am actually better... But I won't believe it until I see for myself
Nin
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
In reply to Re: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont?YG KDI » KimberlyDi, posted by mercedes on July 24, 2003, at 18:21:14
> I just had to go back and resurrect this subject...
I don't mean to disrupt this very nice discussion, but I'd like to ask that follow-ups be redirected to another board if they don't relate to medication issues. Psychological Babble is about psychology and psychological treatments, Psycho-Social-Babble is for general support and "just" being social, etc. Here's a link to the latter for this topic:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030719/msgs/244989.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:05:50
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
Dear Nin,
Even though you are at the lowest dosage 37.5 - I would actually wean off slowly.
Staying at the 37.5 for a while and then divide the capsule in half to 18.75. I know that in the posts a week or so ago there were different instructions from different posters on how to do it.
There are many posters on here who actually divided up the granuals by 1/2's and 1/3'rds and took them using apple sauce.
Some people started Effexor by dividing the 37.5's to 18.75 and went up like that gradually and that's how many weaned themselves off of it.
I only was on 37.5 for 6 days, and I had some withdrawal symptoms that I didn't like, one of them being rage inside myself, the brain zaps, etc., but EVERYONE is different.
I've heard of people going cold turkey from 150 mgs. with no side effects and then there was me 6 days on 37.5 and tortured for 4 days after I quit the Effexor.
I think Zinya did it the best way - she went extremely slow and I think she described it as a turtle pace and she did have some SE's but they weren't as drastic as some others.
Also, have you told your doctor that you were going to be stopping? Maybe he/she can help you and give you some advise also.
Good Luck to you and keep us posted, I'm sure your experience will help a lot of others.
Hugs,
Cher
Posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:52:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
I just wanted to say that I like your name.
Posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:54:17
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Niniveh, posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:05:50
Maybe we should all send a petition to the W-A company asking them to produce it in smaller doses!
Posted by CherC68 on July 24, 2003, at 20:58:54
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by noa on July 24, 2003, at 20:54:17
Posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:28:04
In reply to Re: Oh you guys...., posted by tray on July 24, 2003, at 16:57:35
Hey, Tracy. I struggle incredibly with the whole religious thing, but it helped me so much when I felt I literally had nothing left. It wasn't the case. I was leaving my marriage, but I did have two beautiful little girls. Now it's almost 15 years since the separation, ten since the divorce, and I see my kids struggling. that's hard. But I will pray for you. It helps me that you ask, because I forget to pray, most often! I haven't been able to get myself to church for months. But I have a very private and personal sense of my own spiritual journey. Hard to admit to or talk about. Daph
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 21:37:06
In reply to Redirect: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
> > I just had to go back and resurrect this subject...
>
> I don't mean to disrupt this very nice discussion, but I'd like to ask that follow-ups be redirected to another board if they don't relate to medication issues. Psychological Babble is about psychology and psychological treatments, Psycho-Social-Babble is for general support and "just" being social, etc. Here's a link to the latter for this topic:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030719/msgs/244989.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobWell, that explains why effexor is all we ever talk about here! Hhhmmm. Um, ok. Well, at 4 weeks, I have no side effects on effexor and I want to talk about self esteem and no identify and childhood bullying and anxiety and depression and verbal abuse and being a doormat, so I guess I'll check out Dr. Bob's other site. Gee, I was really enjoying this neighborhood. I hope to see the rest of you there too! Bye, Yankeegirl
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 21:45:29
In reply to Redirect: Resurect'g Pleasers w/men who are Cont, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2003, at 19:28:04
Hey Mercedes, I just left a really long post about verbal abuse, but Dr. Bob did not post it because it is not about effexor. Harrumph. Well, I wish you and the other posters all the very best - I have learned SO MUCH from all of you. Thank you, thank you all, for sharing.
One last opinion, if Dr. Bob will post it:
Getting Effexor from a family doctor for depression/anxiety is like getting aspirin from a family doctor for a brain tumor.
See you at the 'social' site. Yankeegirl
Posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:54:53
In reply to Re: KDI, didn't know you felt this way » mercedes, posted by KimberlyDi on July 24, 2003, at 17:06:20
This is so intense! How do you all keep up? I am trying not to feel inadequate to this cool new thing I have found! But it's hard to know how to deal. Nine hours of work, and all I wanted to do was see what was here, and I've read tons and there are still 25 messages. I guess perfectionism is talking, eh? OK Progress, not perfection! I will make some responses and if I am too tired I will come back tomorrow.
Midgie, you say miniscule doses. Do you break tabs?? I was excited to read that. :)
is "imo" a person or an abbreviation?
about friends who "should" on you: As you change, it is OK to change friends. It's a good sign to be taking care of yourself and setting some boundaries and making choices as to who you will spend precious time and energy on. I have had to do that too. It isn't easy or fun, but it does help.
About "small talk" at the reunion and the incredibly horrible question, "So what are you doing now?" (My immediate panic over trying to sound legitimate and worthy of living and adequate and to cover up all traces of my self-loathing and underachieving). I realized when I read your post that it's not really "small talk" at all, but huge talk!! all the negative self talk starts up then! Ironic. It's like all this stuff is much MORE REAL than the so-called "real world".
Yes, I read Woititz in the early 90's. Either a counselor, or AL-anon person, or the Adult Children of Alcoholics group I was in turned me on to many books. Read Struggle For INtimacy, too. and love Bradshaw, too. But it is still a long long road from the head to the heart!Zinya, you mentioned frustration. That's a huge problem with me. Sends me into a spiral down. I want to do so much too much all the time. Have huge impossible expectations of myself, and always feel behind and inadequate. I read somewhere, maybe in "EVERYDAY SACRED" that it was just the scarcity model of time. Made sense. since the scarcity model rules my life!
Cher, you're not a freak. I'm not crazy, and none of us are worthless. Feelings aren't good or bad, they just are. I sure identified with your saying you spent 40 years mostly unhappy. I had a lot of highs, too, but mostly I look back and feel a sense of waste. All those years. I hate going to Dr's. too. I get sick of analyzing, too. AA says, "Sick and tired of being sick and tired."
I also say a lot to myself "This, too, shall pass." It took many years to learn that the feelings that were so bad were not forever. I try to eat right (and usually fail) sleep enough (often fail) and even remember to breathe better! sounds crazy, but if it's chemical, I figure the tension keeps me from breathing the way I was designed to breathe! and chemmical reactions need Oxygen. I also try to remember that I want to live in the solution and not in the problem and that helps my focus. But I am a real "awfulizer"!
Susan, dreams help me a lot, and often I am not aware of them. when I dream, things are better. I can't drink coffee after 3 or even noon, but I do, sometimes, and then am really sorry at 3 A.M.
And in the morning I need three cups to get really going, like someone else said. I have given it up before...It is supposed to interfere with the Serotonin response, as is Aspartame, they say. I am sort of addicted to both, unfortunately. I am a really addictive type.the talk of adrenalin interests me. Years ago my brother in law gave me some ritalin for depression. Of course, I broke the pills in quarters or less, and had ten pills for over three years! But I sure loved how it worked. I know it wasn't the best idea. I guess it affects the adrenaline.
OK...I saw the addiction filter option here and may have to use it. I am trying to allow myself the joy of this for a few days and not should on myself or shame myself for being totally into it! Daph
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 23:37:46
In reply to to everyone about everything! » KimberlyDi, posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 21:54:53
what a great post, Daph! sooo vibrant!!
imo = in my opinion
imho = in my humble opinionalso some other abbrevs that might come up:
eom = end of message
nm = no message
lol = laugh out loudyou're right that small talk is, for us, huge talk! or maybe it's that it's "stilted talk" ... or "living up to expectations talk" ..
what a good point you made about breathing. I have (still boxed somewhere with all my books i've never unboxed since moving here) a book on Chi Breathing that i used to have in abookcase near my bed to remind me to think about breathing - which we take for granted but don't "exercise" and practice it for the deep breathing that really can make a huge difference in overall health... The minute i read your sentence i found myself filling my belly with air :)) and breathing deep. I'm usually pathetically forgetful and breathe way too shallowly.
and what an evocative word, "awfulizer" !?!?! but, i dare say, it sounds like a word that belongs in your get-rid-of pile! :)
speaking of Aspertame, what did it for me was learning a few months back that allegedly aspertame turns into formaldehyde in the body. I heard it from two different sources and then read it somewhere. Not sure it's 100% gospel but it was enough to make me stop buying diet Coke, although i only periodically "got by" on it, but now i've forced myself if a need a Coke to drink regular, which means i have had only 2 in the past 3 months.
ritalin for depression?? isn't ritalin for hyperactivity? i'm confused. or is this another case where it regulates either extreme?
well, again, your post was so full and fascinating and your energy seems even contagious. I just ended (well getting near) my 2nd day on 150 mg. and amazingly since the 2nd day at a level is usually when side effects kick in, but i didn't even have those head pressure feelings i described yesterday.
The only thing is that for second day in a row i woke up way too early with only about 5 hrs sleep and couldn't get back to sleep. But i think that could be my VERY sore back from the major adjustment to unrotate my lumbar on Tuesday and it's still so sore that i think it woke me up, so not sure it's an Effexor effect. But i'm kind of stunned (in a positive way) that the only thing i'm dealing with is feeling a bit zombie from lack of sleep - Oh and still getting hot and sweaty way easier than before but that wasn't too bad either.
And the tree guy cleared off the downed trunk and another one that was in danger of breaking too... But i was sad all day for the birds who i'd hated to deprive of their multi-layered perches just off the deck... I have to get energy enough to plant them a new tree that won't risk breaking ...
i'm getting heavy-lidded and probably won't make it through all the posts and it's only 9:30 pm, and i never go to bed before midnight (pre-Effexor it was 1 am -- Effexor does seem to make me sleepy earlier but this is kind of ridiculous - i'm not a 9 pm sleeper...
what did you mean by "addiction filter option"?
anyway, i'm babbling (again)... hasta la vista ... or hasta la escrita (?) ...
hugs to all,
zinya
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 23:58:14
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Niniveh on July 24, 2003, at 19:07:52
hi nineveh,
yeah, from what i've digested here, i'd encourage you to taper off too even from 37.5. Some people go to 37.5 every other day and then every third day. I tapered upwards by opening the capsule and divvying up the granules in half and started at 19 mg which you could go down to for a few days or a week and then even to 12 and then off maybe. Seems to me it's better safe than sorry in terms of risking withdrawal effects, which seem unpredictable but have really hit home big time for some.
good luck!
zinya
Posted by willie on July 25, 2003, at 7:41:39
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I'm doing fine. The stress level is not so high today as I am on vacation as of 4 o'clock (EST). The stressors are still here at work but this is where I'll leave them, something I've never been able to do before. I'll deal with it when I get back (then I'll be freaking out). That is one thing about effexor xr that I'm most gratefull for. I use to litterally cry or my stomach would get so sore from anxiety that I'd be doubled over. Not a good look in front of your co-workers.
I work 37.5 hrs a week and I do find that working does help eleviate depression. Even if you work a few hours a week, I believe it would be beneficial. I lost my previous job due to them relocating the office so I was unemployed for about 3 months. I found myself slipping deeper into depression during that period. I need to work..even if it comes with stressors...not all stress is bad in my mind.
I drink decaffinated coffee which doesn't help as effexor makes you drowsy but I try to stay away from the caffine so I'll sleep at night. My husband can't figure out why I'm so tired all the time but If I told him it was because of effexor, he'd probably want me to come off.
Anyway..I'll be off the thread until August 6th so I wanted to let you all know so you don't think I went off my wagon. You'll all be in my thoughts and I'll touch base when I get back from Las Vegas!!
Hugs from Canada
Willie
Posted by zinya on July 25, 2003, at 10:46:04
In reply to Re: Hey everyone, posted by willie on July 25, 2003, at 7:41:39
Gosh, Willie, i hear and take joy in your sense of progress!
Have a wonderful vacation! We'll miss you. You so quickly have become such a real treasure here!
wishing you safe and happy travels
love and hugs,
zinya
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