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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mercedes on July 21, 2003, at 0:19:35
In reply to Re: Hey Mercedes...I'd like to know more....Willie, posted by willie on July 20, 2003, at 16:18:11
Hi Willie, I've only had one unexplained bruise and that was about 6 weeks ago. It was on the inside of my leg above the knee and was about the size of an orange. It went away and I never thought any more about it till you mentioned it.
Before I forget, I want to know about your "full blown attacks". Please describe them for me. I wrote about one of my attacks sometime ago, and now it appears that my attack could be something else besides my normal anxiety.
However, my PTSD/anxioty symtoms were...(and this is while I was working, caring for my teen son and caring for my ailing mom)... always being afraid. If I would get startled, my body reacted with such fear, heart pounding, body trembling and I actually would start to cry. You know how kids sneak up behind you and say..Boo! Well this would make my body react like if I had needles coming out my skin, expecially in my back and neck. I had to teach my son and/or freinds not to do that to me.
One of my PTSD symtoms was seeing a person yet it may have been a tree or other object. I had thoughts of ending it, but I had my mom to take care of. I once wrote a letter to my brother asking him to take care of my son until he turned 18 in case anything happened to me. He cld me very concerned and I brushed it off, saying that "we never know, right?", but i was considering suicide. To this day, none of my 3 brother's know that I was raped. I didn't kill myself cause it would have killed my mom. AND, I wouldn't be on this babble board too, huh, right? Just some humor here in the midst of such drama.
I avoided places like underground parking areas cause I was afraid of being startled by someone. Was afraid of taking elevators especially if only one man got in. My fear would be so elevated that I would literally stop breathing and I could hear my heart pound. I had to take an elevator at work to the 17th fl. every day. If I got in with freind/co-workers, I was fine. One time the elevator got stuck. I started feeling like I was suffocating, body shaking, heart pounding and severe feelings of being trapped.
This eventually affected my driving abilities, especially on the freeway. God forbid if heard a car backfire, I would lose it. At times I felt like I was detached from the car, like the car was going by itself and I had no control. There were times I had to pull over and my body, especially my legs would shake uncontrolably or I just couln't make my legs move. After becoming so afraid of driving freeways, I learned how to take side streets to work AND this was a 33 mile commute one-way through LA county into Orange county in CA. It was strange that I could drive city streets okay, but not the freeways, then I learned from my therapist that my fear was of leaving my safe place...HOME. So I was diagnosed with agoraphobia also.
To this day, fireworks...Yiks! Especially the loud ones. This makes me jump out of my skin. Oh, I also cannot open a can of biscuits, you know, the kind that pop. And champaine bottles opening at a wedding, well, I'm under the table. Can't blow up a balloon cause it may pop.
Well continuing on, when I was at work, sometimes I would feel the floor move up and down when I was standing. Again, my therapist said these were anxiety related....to deep breath and just accept them by saying to myself, it's just anxiety, I'll live through it. Another thing, while walking, i would feel like the rug was being pulled out from under my feet, yet the room was wall to wall carpet. If I got very angry or upset, I hyperventalated.
I was afraid of being in a mall, street or going for a walk alone cuz i felt that I was going to feel the ground shaking or wobbly legs or the needles shooting though my body. I was afraid of having an anxiety attack. What it boiled down to was...I WAS AFRAID OF BEING AFRAID.
There were times at the begining that I couldn't sit in my front yard. I actually would get a big kitchen knife and hold it in my lap so that I could sit in my FENCED front yard, imagine that. Whew! Memories! This was 7 years ago and some of the symptoms lasted for about 4 yrs, some I still have and some have gone away. Like I don't hold a knife in my front yard anymore. Really!I had no -zero- seratonine. I couldn't laugh, smile, socialize, my eyes always looked sad, I couldn't feel any feelings.
Effexor, finally made me exist. I'd rather have the side effects than not smile again or laugh. I laughed about you chasing your car. That was funny but i'm glad you didn't get hurt. I couln't laugh year's before and now I do.
I was prescribed xanex then and still take it. Yes, I felt better, like I wouldn't jump 10 feet if I got startled, and my body wouldn't shake as much, but some symtoms still remained, I think cause of the added stress at work. My boss was a b*tch, very degrading and belittled employees. It would eat me up. The employee's would come to me with their questions/problems cuz they didn't want to go to de boss. Results, more anxiety, stress.
As far as going from 37.5 to 75, I think I just felt more sleepy during the day. Not much of a change.
Well, I hope I answered all your questions. It's painful to remember all the symtoms I had, but if anyone else has these, I got through the toughest times and it does get better. Effexor may not be the answer for everyone. I think it has worked for me cause I gave up the drinking. I was not giving other AD's a chance. I have to be honest here, I drank to not feel my pain. But drinkin is also a depressant so I was just killing myself slowly. Whatever drug works for you, try it. Things WILL get better.
Sleep tight,Mercedes
Posted by willie on July 21, 2003, at 7:45:18
In reply to Re: Hey Mercedes...I'd like to know more....Willie » willie, posted by mercedes on July 21, 2003, at 0:19:35
Hi Mercedes...you're probably still sleeping as I write this. I'm in Ontario, Canada so I'm 3 hours ahead of you. I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience with me (us). It's nice to speak with people who can understand what you're experiencing.
First thing first...I've had a bruise on the back of my leg the size of an orange and it was an ugly looking thing. It looked like I had been hit in the leg with a baseball. The month prior to that I had one on my buttock. They looked sore but I could poke at them with not feeling any pain so I knew that I hadn't injured myself. I've had other ones but smaller in size.
As for my anxiety attacks...I always knew when they were coming on because I felt like I had 10 cups of coffee. My body felt like it had an electric current running through it. I became figity and couldn't relax no matter what I did. When they got real bad, I'd have to curl up in the fetal position and rock myself while I cried. I always had feelings of dread, death etc.
Back in 1991 I saw a women get crushed to death. A garbage truck accidently backed up over her. I saw the whole thing happen and it's weird but it was like my brain wouldn't accept what I was seeing. I thought "What is a mannequin doing on the street?" And then the horror of it all set in. I don't think I'll ever forget the sound of the driver screaming. I ran up to the women to cover her with my coat but when I saw her I froze. I'm not going to give you gorry details but I couldn't cover her and that I can't forgive myself for not doing. I always had this fear of dying alone and here I was able to give this woman a little dignity by covering her and I couldn't do it. It was obvious she was dead.
Well, the effects of that on me was that I couldn't eat (couldn't even look at meat). I lived on Slim fast bars and milk. I ate only because I was light-headed. I drank almost every day. I couldn't stop replaying that whole scene in my mind.
I was a newly wed at the time and the PTSD was playing havic with my marriage. My husband was frustrated because he didn't know how to help me and like you..I couldn't feel anything. Did you ever see the movie "Fearless" with Jeff Daniels? It's about a guy who survives a plane crash and how he didnt' feel anything. He wasn't afraid of anything. I was like that. I would walk in front of cars crossing the street because I just didn't care. I also found out during therapy that I had "survivor's guilt". Well, in an effort to save my marriage I burried my problems. Tried to go about with normal life. I couldn't drive...didn't want the responsibility of hurting anyone. Everytime I saw a little animal dead on the side of the road, I'd lose it. I'd flash back to the accident and cry.
About 4 months later my husband and I were involved in an accident on the way up to my grandmother's funeral. A tanker truck hit us and destroyed our car. We were unhurt, which is hard to believe if you saw the pictures. Well..needless to say my PTSD had new fuel for the fire. I was a mess for a very long time. My marriage took a turn for the worse because of my depression. For a year I thought of that women every day. Every anniversary of her death was a write off for me. I took pain killers whenever my husband and I fought so I couldn't feel the emotional pain. Sometimes my body/mind would litterly shut down...I couldn't feel anymore. That is when he suggested it was time to get some help.
After a year of counselling a lot of issues came out. Both my parents are alcoholics and they divorced when I was 8 years old. It seems that I had been bottling up a lot since my childhood and those 2 accidents put me over the edge. The counselling help me understand my fears but did not allevate them. I had OCD, depression and axiety.The fear of driving anywhere would put me into an attack or I'd find any excuse not to drive. Like you, I wanted my safe place...home. Friends would invite me out after work and I'd find an excuse not to go. Even when I was out with my husband somewhere (at a friends house) I was uncomfortable and axious to get home. I was always afraid of something happening to my pet rats. Yes, I have pet rats - 3 boys. They are wonderful pets. I'd always feel guilty about leaving them when we went away on vacation even though I had someone taking care of them. This I learnt was "the fear of abandonment" another prize I obtained from my childhood experiences.
Effexor gave me life. For the first time this year I went away on vacation and did not feel the guilt or anxiety. I can drive without attacks although I don't go on the highways (yet). This year was the first where I didn't remember the anniversary of that women's death until today. Like you said, It's painfull to remember.
I did have anxiety a few days ago but only to the point where I felt the electric current in my body and I was only on the verge of tears.
My husband and I are off to Las Vegas this weekend. I'm so looking forward to it. That's another feeling that I haven't experienced in a while. It's so good to feel again. I never knew how enjoyable life could be before effexor.
Thanks again for sharing with me Mercedes
Willie
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 8:35:30
In reply to Re: Dentist the shakes, posted by Yankeegirl on July 18, 2003, at 20:17:43
Yankeegirl,
Another option besides just laughing gas to the extreme of IV sedation is to ask your Dentist to write you a small (1 to 5 dosages) prescription for valium (or something similar) to take before going. Be SURE to have someone drive you there and pick you up afterward. The Dentist won't let you do it otherwise. P.S. bring earplugs or listen to music to help mute the drilling sound.
Good Luck!!!
KDi in Texas> Hi, I was so glad to see the posts from KimberlyDi and Mercedes about the dentist. I had my only-ever panic attack in the dentist chair after having a crown. The panic progressed over the next 8 years to where I can't even bear the sound of the drill anymore. I have found a wonderful office finally where they understand that the attack was like a body memory of some traumatic surgery I had at 4 years old. I had gas at my consultation and it was great. I was going to have gas again on Monday when they do a crown, but I am afraid of what will happen if I hear the drill in another room, even if I am on gas. IV sedation sounds so much more serious, though. Can anybody share what they did and how IV sedation worked for them? Thanks so much. Yankeegirl
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 8:50:29
In reply to PLEASE GIVE ADVICE, posted by tmgirl on July 19, 2003, at 0:17:48
He plays with the church youth and you are at home, having no fun, and dealing with all the responsibility. You might need more help than what an Anti-depressant (AD) can provide. BUT, you do sound depressed and Effexor might be the AD that supports you enough to be strong enough to start making changes. You are on the right track. I would also recommend individual therapy (someone besides the minister of the church that your husband works/volunteers for).
Back to Effexor, there have been plenty of good posts recently about starting Effexor. Read them. Don't let the horror stories scare you.
Good Luck!
KDi in Texas> hi....I too am thinking of being on effexor. I have alreadt started and now on day 4 at 37.5 and going to 75 in a few days. This is a little scarey for me because of all these post and to me I did not think I needed something of this kind of strength. I have "off days" and gripe at my kids and hubby alot, my self asteem has been shot because all the weight I have gained. My husband looks and lives like a 20 yr old. I say that because he plays sports and hangs out at church with all the teens. He is a youth minister and acts just like a kid. Besides all that he keeps a very active life, basketball, fishing, hunting, football....he stays busy all times of the year and me well....I feel like I am 60. Im ony 31 and I am the one who stays with the kids, keeps the house cleaned, clothes washed, homework & projects with kids for school, care for the bills and make dinner. I feel like I gave up my life years ago for my family and I would love to get intrested in something and start living like my husband is. Now with all that said....does it sound like to you that I need this? I am scared of the going off effects but I really do want to be happier than what I am. I do feel very blessed and love my role as mother/wife but just wish I felt like doing more and not being so ill with my family all the time. PLEASE advise!
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 9:05:57
In reply to Re: Hey there Cher, it's me Nyia » CherC68, posted by NThompson on July 19, 2003, at 1:41:02
Congrats Nyia! You sound wonderful. Not manic, nor too depressed, but rather stable on your own two footsies. That's always a good sign for me, when I start home-improvements. A clean, organized, or pretty house is very soothing and something to be proud of.
You go girl!!!
KDi in Texas> Hey there Cher,
>
> It is so nice of you to be thinking of me. I am still here. I had a few set backs, the crying and just depressed and not wanting to do anything. But I think in part I might have been PMSing, too. I have told a good friend of mine what happened and she is keeping me busy. We are redecorating my house. The cheap inexpensive way of doing things. Since I don't have extra money to spend. So I have been busy. Also, I have been out of the house alot too. Visiting friends and family and helping out with my daughters school functions. Today was her last day of school. She is now a first grader. And her report card tells me how smart she is. In every subject she was above average except reading. In reading she was Advanced! I am so proud of her!
>
> My husband is still a huge support for me. He helps me up and gets me moving. He hasn't yelled at me if the house isn't clean (he works 10-12 hours a day and drives 2 hours there and back). And I stay at home, I'm a housewife, and I take care of the house and kids. But he in encouraging and very supportive!
>
> The finances are okay for now. We are making it. The ends meet anyway. And I really do think I am finally feeling better. I think the Effexor and Paxil and the Trazadone are finally starting to work for me. I am actually feeling good.
>
> Thanks for thinking of me, Let me know how you're doing,
> Love ya, Nyia
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 9:09:16
In reply to Re: How do you know you? Need advice., posted by willie on July 19, 2003, at 9:43:19
I realized that I probably needed a higher dosage when I started feeling jittery in the early afternoon on a regular basis. The important thing was that my p-doc agreed. What dosage are you taking?
KDi in Texas> How do you know when you should be taking a higher dosage of effexor? I've had my first experience of anxiety yesterday since being on this drug. It was not nearly as bad as prior to my taking effexor but now I'm concerned that maybe my body is becoming accustomed to this dosage? Does this make sense? If anyone can share advice, I'd appreciate it. Willie
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 9:13:23
In reply to Re: Hi everyone! » NThompson, posted by CherC68 on July 19, 2003, at 14:56:00
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 9:19:58
In reply to Effexor XR -- sleepy, dizzy, posted by bookgurl99 on July 19, 2003, at 16:02:53
Any time you feel sleep and dizzy, you shouldn't drive, regardless of what's causing it. I would play it safe. Effexor can cause drowsiness and dizziness, which will subside in time. Maybe plan your dosages around your driving times. For Ex: I take my Effexor in the A.M. So I take my first Effexor the minute I get to work. Hope someone else can give you better advice. Be careful!
KDi in Texas> I've been on 37.5 mgs Effexor XR for migraine prevention (and lowering anxiety a bit) since Tue. I am feeling more relaxed, less stressed already.
>
> But, I am also feeling tired and dizzy, slightly physically out-of-balance much of the time. Because the type of migraines I get can also cause these symptoms, it's important to me to not have a drug cause them so I can know whether I'm having a migraine or not.
> (My 'migraines' can be painless, but I shouldn't drive while they're happening -- I can be more confused than I think at these times!)
>
> Are these a normal side effect of Effexor; can they go away with time? Or am I having a migraine and don't know it?
>
> experiences?
Posted by Susy on July 21, 2003, at 9:58:55
In reply to Re: PLEASE GIVE ADVICE » tmgirl, posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 8:50:29
Hi KDI in Texas, I was reading your post, and I think that you are very healthy. I mean, if you do want to get out of your house and work or do a lot of other things is because you feel you have the strenght to do them! For most of us, it is the opposite, I don't know if you understand this, but when you feel depressed and you have to deal with anxiety everyday you start having a lack of energy and litle by litle the only one thing you feel comfortable with is staying home.
I am still trying to find out how did I do before to take care of my kids,clean my home, cook, and still work, because that is what I did for 18 years. Now, living with this anxiety; sometimes it is a big deal even to go to the beach with them.
If you have everything you need to make it, go ahead and make it! Hire a babysitter, and find a job you like, or volunteer in programs, maybe that is exactly what you need to feel yourself again. Hugs, Susy
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 10:04:21
In reply to Re: Effexor XR -- sleepy, dizzy, posted by bookgurl99 on July 19, 2003, at 19:19:33
I was going to switch to Lexapro until I started tapering off the Effexor. I immediately missed the relief from anxiety and decided to stick with Effexor, which apparently is working for me. I wasn't willing to leave a good thing for a month-long ordeal to wait for Lexapro to kick in, if it even would work for me.
But that's my individual experience.
Keep us posted on what you do. KDi in Texas
> > Are you planning on staying with 37.5mg, is this what your doctor prescribed? I'm curious because my doctor prescribed me a low dose, 37.5mg for mild anxiety. I've been taking it for about 3 weeks now and the sleepy dizzy feeling went away for me in about 2 weeks. The reason I'm so curious is because 37.5mg is usually what you start with for 5 days and then go to 75mg. I would like to know what input you got from your doctor about taking just 37.5mg for anxiety.
>
> Theo,
>
> My dr. is planning to bump me up to 70 mgs after I get used to the 37.5 mgs. I'm tempted to quit it for Lexapro, though.
>
> books
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 10:34:41
In reply to Re: Effexor XR -- sleepy, dizzy, posted by Scooter1 on July 19, 2003, at 19:51:43
hello scooter,
I have no experience with SJW (Saint Johns Wort) but I wanted to welcome you to Psycho-Babble. I would hope that the doctor knows what he's doing when he asked you to continue taking the SJW. A tip for psycho-babbling, change the subject line to include your specifics to increase the odds of getting a response to your post, or start a new post.
Good luck!
KDi in Texas> Hello everyone, I have been monitoring this site for a few days now. I was recently put on effexor xr for anxiety. Right now I am on 37.5mg been on it almost 7 days now. Side effects are there but o'kay. My doc also wants me to continue taken ST. Johns Wort for a little while til I get on board with the Effexor. I am taking 300mg of SJW. Has anyone done this before? All I read about is how its dangerous to mix seratonin drugs? I have talked to pharmacists and they seem to think its o'kay for a short while. Please advise? I have currently cut back to 150mg of SJW to possibly lower the SE affects of the Effexor. I need some encouragment, Please?
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 10:41:51
In reply to Re: to Suzy, personal, re local referral » Susy, posted by mercedes on July 20, 2003, at 1:57:58
Suzy, thanks to you I learned something new today. "Mobbing" It's terrible what you having to put up with. Be strong sweetie!
KDi in Texas> Suzy, I looked up something on Mobbing as I too have not hear the term before. It is very closely related to Post Traumatic Sress Disorder or PTSD, which is one of the things I suffer from. It has to do with re-living the initial trauma over and over again. I have never heard of it referred to as PTAnxiotyD.
>
> Anyway, here goes:
> ===========================
> "Mobbing - its Course Over Time
> ...these individuals find themselves in a prolonged stress- and in a prolonged trauma-creating situation. Instead of a short, acute (and normal!) PTSD reaction that can subside after several days or weeks, theirs is constantly renewed: new traumata and new sources of anxiety arise in a constant stream during which time the individual experiences rights violations that further undermine his or her self-confidence and psychological health. The unwieldy social situation for these individuals consists not only of severe psychological trauma but of an extremely prolonged stress condition that seriously threatens the individual's socio-economic existence. Psychological terror or mobbing in life involves hostile and unethical communication which is directed in a systematic manner by one or more individuals, mainly toward one individual, who, due to mobbing, is pushed into a helpless and defenseless position and held there by means of continuing mobbing activities. These actions occur on a very frequent basis (statistical definition: at least once a week) and over a long period of time (statistical definition: at least six months´ duration). Because of the high frequency and long duration of hostile behavior, this maltreatment results in considerable mental, psychosomatic and social misery.
>
> This most often results in serious violations of the individual´s civil rights. In this phase, the mobbed person ultimately becomes marked/stigmatized. As long as the mobbed individual does not receive effective support, he or she can be torn to pieces again at any time.
>
> Thus, the definition does not focus too much on the activities themselves, but rather on the heavy mental strain."
> ===============================
> Susy, I feel for you cause I had a boss that was just like this. Demoralized & be-littled her employees, me not so much but it bothered me just as well. It just killed me to see her every day.
>
> Like Cher said, don't take any crap from your neighbor/apt manager. Try throwing out the word "harrasment" to her, don't answer her questions, nor explain or apoligize.... maybe try, "I feel that you are harrasing me" or something similar like "mobbing!" Saying you "feel" doesnt' really accuse the person so she can't come back and say you accused her of anything. Just my own thoughts here.
>
> As far as support, talking to the psycologist was a great move for you and of course, we are also here to support. Did you run out of xanex? How are you coping?
>
> Buena Suerte (good luck),
> Mercedes
>
> *****************************************
> .......
> > She told me two things new for me, first she told me that what I have is Post Traumatic Panic Disorder, (?) and then she told me that what this neighbor has been doing to me has a name, and it is Mobbing (?) I never knew about this thing before. But you seem to know about everything Zinya, she said something about moral harrasment and that is why I am suffering this Post Traumatic thing, among the other things, of course.
> > Well, if you know something about Mobbing, (because this word is new for me) please let me know.
> >
> > Hugs, Susy
>
>
Posted by willie on July 21, 2003, at 10:42:19
In reply to Re: How do you know you? Need advice. » willie, posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 9:09:16
Hi KDi....I've been on 37.5 since December. As mentioned in my previous posting..my first anxiet attack was a few days ago since being on effexor. I wouldn't have made much of it but I have noticed more of my OCD lately. That is a sure indicator for me that my axiety is creeping in again. I guess I'm a litte afraid to move to the next dosage. Willie
I realized that I probably needed a higher dosage when I started feeling jittery in the early afternoon on a regular basis. The important thing was that my p-doc agreed. What dosage are you taking?
> KDi in Texas
>
> > How do you know when you should be taking a higher dosage of effexor? I've had my first experience of anxiety yesterday since being on this drug. It was not nearly as bad as prior to my taking effexor but now I'm concerned that maybe my body is becoming accustomed to this dosage? Does this make sense? If anyone can share advice, I'd appreciate it. Willie
>
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 10:46:25
In reply to Re: re: dividing granules,Rx note, posted by noa on July 20, 2003, at 9:50:52
Oh boy, I hope all you *dividers* out there have fantastic eyesight! ROFL <picturing someone bent over a desk with tweezers picking out 1 color at a time> Glad I'm stuck with the old-fashioned Non-XR Effexor.
KDi in Texas> Yes, it isn't the outside gelcap that determines the time release, but....
>
> If you look carefully, the granules are of different sizes. I once broke one open and saw the varying sizes of the granules. I believe that the reason for this is that it is the coating on each granule that determines the time release--ie, the thicker the coating, the longer it takes for the active medication to be released.
>
> So, that would mean that you should be evenly distributing granules of different sizes into each of the portions you are making, which makes it a very involved task.
>
> So--this is quite different than the applesauce thing. If you break open the capsule and take all of the granules at once (eg, in applesauce), it is not a problem. But if you divide them up, unless you carefully divide the different size granules (I am not sure how many different sizes there are), you are not getting the proper time release action, and you might be getting very uneven levels from day to day. I think this is the reason for the warning.
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 21, 2003, at 11:05:37
In reply to Re: re: dividing granules,Rx note, posted by KimberlyDi on July 21, 2003, at 10:46:25
I've been on Effexor for about 4 weeks, but haven't had any counseling from the physchiatrist yet, and I go over the phych testing tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to talk about my issues yet. When my child graduated high school in 2000 I thought "now I'll have more time to..." and I could not remember for the life of me what it was I used to like to do. Last month my baby graduated and I think my reaction was "I spent 24 years raising them, did a great job in spite of how stressful and overwhelming it was, and now can collapse. One afternoon, I was distraught and agonizing and crying over the thought of having to make dinner. When I added that to the realization that I had no identity anymore, that I had gradually given up pieces of myself to make my husband happy, who critized everything I ever did, that is when I realized I needed help. I've been reading a book by Dr. Kevin Leman called "The Pleasers - Women Who Can't Say No - And the Men Who Control Them (sorry Dr. Bob I don't know how to do that highlighting thing). This post is long enough without going into more details. I'm wondering ---- how many of you see yourselves in this same situation with a controlling man????? Yankeegirl
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 11:52:29
In reply to Re: to Suzy, personal, re local referral, posted by Susy on July 19, 2003, at 0:44:40
hola Susy,
gosh, i've gotten wayyy behind on mail here and suddenly there's a ton that i didn't keep up with over the weekend...
first, i'm so sorry i misspelled your name, Susy ... and even put it in a header so it has become repeated many times with a 'z' instead of an 's'...
i'm just now reading this post of yours and it looks like Mercedes has helpfully already answered your questions thankfully cuz i had never heard the term. And i'm kind of stunned that you think of me as "knowing everything" !?!?! I certainly don't.. And i hope i don't come across that way. I'm just willing to share (sometimes at length) whatever i do know about on topics that hit home for me, but i'd hate to think i come across as a 'know it all' cuz that is hardly the case. The one problem in cyberspace is that a person's tone doesn't translate through the screen very accurately sometimes and that's not at all the tone i would wish to communicate...
I'll respond more about what Mercedes has shared from her learning about Mobbing on that post but thanks to that post i traced back to this one you had written me which i hadn't seen and wanted to at least say this much already in rsponse to you, Susy...
hoping you had a good weekend and knowing that you said you planned to call Paula today, hoping and trusting that that will go well... Always feel free with Paula to ask her any questions about words or notions she might mention that you're unfamiliar with. I'm quite sure you'll readily see how totally comfortable to talk with she is...
con besos y abrazos,
zinya
> Hi Zinya, I am a little tired, it is late already but I couldn't wait no more to tell you.
> Today I paid for an hour with a psychologist, (she couldn't give me any medicine) but it was a big relief to tell her everything, about my mother, about my ex, about the neihgbor I have, you remember I told you I was manager here but she always complained, and the owner is on her side and now she is the manager and she always maltreat my children? Well, I told this Dr. everything!
> She told me two things new for me, first she told me that what I have is Post Traumatic Panic Disorder, (?) and then she told me that what this neighbor has been doing to me has a name, and it is Mobbing (?) I never knew about this thing before. But you seem to know about everything Zinya, she said something about moral harrasment and that is why I am suffering this Post Traumatic thing, among the other things, of course.
> Well, if you know something about Mobbing, (because this word is new for me) please let me know.
>
> Hugs, Susy
Posted by mercedes on July 21, 2003, at 12:04:30
In reply to Re: Hey Mercedes...I'd like to know more....Willie, posted by willie on July 21, 2003, at 7:45:18
Willie, first thank you for sharing your painful memories. And give your husband an extra hug from me. He has stuck by you. At one time, I thought you were goint to say you broke up but he suggested getting help. So glad to know you are going to L.V.
Your post reminded me of some actions I also had but forgotten. Like not being afraid of death. About 2 yrs after I was attacked, I flew from CA to Ohio to visit my neice. I was always afraid of flying but this time I didn't care if the plane crashed. This is when I still couldn't feel. I too avoided friends. I actually lost most my friends. But that was my fault. My mind was a prisoner of the attack. I felt like I would have nothing to say. How would I answer a simple question like, how are you? I'd play this in my mind. HOW AM I? I'm dead, I can't feel, my soul and spirit are gone! So I avoided people/freinds.
I empathize with you and the tragedy you saw. I couldn't even stand to hear the word rape, or hear people say sexual inuendos, I felt guilty that I wasn't killed like other rape victims I later heard about in the news. And my rage, well that's another post.
I'm glad to be like my old self again, well feeling's wise. I still have some issues to work out. I love to laugh, dance and hear music. Jokes or sexual inuendos don't bother me anymore. The one thing that pisses me off is when someone is raped and a guy or girl might comment, "well she deserved it". Still to this day, I want to punch an ignorant person like that in the face.
Anyway, enough sharing for now. I found that group therapy was the best for me. However when I found one, rape survivors (about 1 year after the attack) they closed down. I only went about 3 months. I joined another group first, co-dependents annonymus, cause I was a caregiver to my mom and my out of control teen son, and learned I was forgetting ME. This group helped a little. Too bad there aren't enough groups out there however I find that this site has the same effects. Talking to people who are caring, sharing and that experience similar situations is sooooooo helpful. Thanks everyone!
ok ok, enough for now,
Mercedes
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 12:15:41
In reply to Re: to Suzy, personal, re local referral » Susy, posted by mercedes on July 20, 2003, at 1:57:58
hi Mercedes,
i feel a bit of time warp, a sort of mini-Rip van Winkle... Seems like the site has been suddenly as busy as ever and i didn't keep up at all over the weekend...
Thanks so much for all this info. I'd never heard of Mobbing either... Reading the description brings to mind a couple of personal situations of my own that this resonated with ... I think your advice to Susy is very well taken.
My sense is that you, Susy, like so many of us (and i do think women more than men) are socialized to adopt what is also called a "co-dependent" kind of pattern where we tend first and foremost to think relationship maintenance is our responsibility and we can often much too readily bend ourselves to try to suit others' needs in ways that wind up being very counterproductive. Learning to know our own boundaries and to listen to those inner voices in us which start gnashing when we feel in our gut that we're being exploited or harrassed or disrespected, and to draw lines in the sand -- by just speaking out ... without feeling a need to explain ourselves so much (Paula, my bereavement counselor, in fact is very very helpful at reminding me how much i need to realize still that it's okay and sometimes better to NOT add explanations to why something is not okay with us, cuz then people pick those explanations apart, or try to, and just open us to more stress and sense of vulnerability.) It's a lifelong task, i think, to sort out such things for all of us. I do think children need to hear explanations for why they are allowed or not allowed to do things. But in our dealings with adults, like Susy's situation now with the Mean Manager (MM), your suggestions seem very wise. Sometimes the most effective thing we can do is just say the equivalent of "I don't like that." Period. No ands, if, buts, explanations, just stating without counterattack or self-defense either, just "I don't like that." I confess that's a VERY hard thing for me to do. I'm chronically feeling a need to explain myself.
again, thanks so much for sharing this info
hoping you're feeling gradually better and better in recovering from that last attack,
hugs and love,
zinya
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 12:26:12
In reply to Re: Hey Zinya..it's Willie, posted by willie on July 20, 2003, at 15:54:06
hi Willie,
i'm still not sure if Effexor is for me. I have one more night at 100 and then i'm going to make the leap, i guess, to 150 starting tomorrow night. Given the reasons my md. prescribed it for me, i think it's getting to the 150 level that will finally tell me just how much this is the "remedy" my body needs. For me, it's my completely depleted adrenal system even more (and compounding) the depression and anxiety which is why i'm on this drug, and just hoping very much that it works. That's why i've gone twice as slow on it as everyone else cuz i so much don't want to have bad side effects which force me to quit as has happened with every other a-d i've ever tried.
I have easily bruised all my life (it apparently has to do with platelet counts and mine tend to be on the low side but not so low that it's ever been critical), so i haven't noticed anything more than usual for me.
how are you doing?
zinya
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 12:37:14
In reply to Re: re: dividing granules,Rx to Dr. Bob and/or » zinya, posted by noa on July 20, 2003, at 17:22:39
hi noa,
thanks for responding again... I recognized your moniker but from quite a while ago, not recently, and i wasn't sure if maybe you were a monitor... I much appreciate your input and i guess it's finalizes my decision to try a big leap after i take my last 100 mg dose i'd already divvied up before getting your previous post, which will be tonight. So tomorrow night i'll gulp :) and take the leap to 150.
I've never before advanced at even a 37.5 level. Because i'd had such bad side effects on all previous a-d's I'd tried, I had read here before i started that somebody said you could divide up the granules, so i'd confirmed that with the pharmacist and so i started with HALF of a 37.5 (19mg) and even then, and on a full stomach, etc., the next morning i awoke with nausea and other side effects, so i was glad i hadn't taken a full 37.5 even. The side effects were mild enough that i could manage them, so i stayed at each level at least a week and sometimes more, waiting at least until any side effects subsided (except that i now have such chronic excess sweating that it is the one side effect which never really goes away). (Plus it must have lowered my metabolism cuz i'm sure i'm not eating as much but my weight is staying constant.)
I started at 19 at the end of May, then went up to 37.5, then to 56, then 75, and now 100 for the past week.
What level are you on? How long have you been taking Effexor and what effects pro and con have you been getting?
thanks again for your very helpful input.
zinya
> Z-
>
> No, I'm not a monitor here. And, actually, I have not had my observation confirmed by anyone "in the know". It is simply an observation I made. I probably should have qualified my comments to that effect.
>
> I don't know about what dose kicks in the norepinephrine action. But there are lots of folks here who know about the chemical actions of the medications. Try starting a new thread asking that specific question. Maybe address it to SLS or Larry Hoover or St. James, to name a few of the people who seem to have a lot of knowledge.
>
> What dose are you on now? Does increasing by increments of 37.5 affect you too strongly?
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 12:48:08
In reply to Re: re: dividing granules,Rx to Dr. Bob and/or » zinya, posted by noa on July 20, 2003, at 17:22:39
Greetings to any or all of you,
noa suggested i write a post to your attention to ask any of you what you could tell me about when and how Effexor supposedly begins to affect norepinephrine (adrenal system) levels.
When I first started reading here a few months ago, at least one poster on the board here said that it's only at 150 mg that the second-system effects begin, on the norepinephrine / adrenal system.
I wrote a post once to Dr. Bob for confirmation but a monitor answered saying I'd have to get the answers in "the monograph" allegedly somewhere on the site but I couldn't find a monograph. I wrote back asking for a site address and never got an answer. Do you know where this monograph is? Or could you say more about when and how the adrenal system effects "kick in"?
If I understand from the PDI which I finally got yesterday from the pharmacy, 92% of each dosage goes toward serotonin and only 8% toward norepinephrine. So would that mean that it takes getting up to 150 mg before that 8% becomes a sizeable enough amount to start showing a major effect? And, from what it also says, it's sounds like there's some metabolizing catalyst factor (called CYP2D6) (!?!?) that varies in each of us which could impact somewhat (?) how much each of us might need to take in order to reach that same degree of effectiveness for the norepinephrine 8% ?? Would that be an accurate conclusion to draw?
The impression I'm getting is that perhaps, like everything else with these drugs, the effect probably varies by person and it wouldn't necessarily be at 150mg for each person that the norep. levels would start feeling significant effect.
Anyway, that's my set of questions. Could you offer any knowledge you have about this?
thanks very much,
zinya
Posted by Susy on July 21, 2003, at 12:55:43
In reply to Re: to Susy, personal, re local referral » Susy, posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 11:52:29
Hi, Zinya, sorry about the "you know everything"
please try to understand that my words in English are very few and I use only the ones I know.
Maybe also the translation doesn't help.
I am very greatful with all you guys for all the support I have received here. So please, be patient with my english mistakes, and let me learn and share more with you.
Mercedes, thanks again, yes, this Dr. told me that there is a lot of people suffering of Post Traumatic Disorder and it is not easy to get rid of it due to the Mobbing they have to cope with.
At least it is good to know where everything comes from. I do have a lot of mental issues to deal with, I told you guys before my mother suffered Maniac-Depression episodes.
I was a full alcoholic for more than 2 years also and I cut it out myself, believe me; it was very hard to do it.
I also have this fobia towards meds due to one thing that happen to me like 12 years ago when I went out with this guy who put an LSD in my drink.
So,I don't feel like taking new medicines or drinking things that I don't open, because I am affraid to feel the same thing again. I always fear to loose control like it happened that night.
It would have help me to have love and security around. But instead I have this neurotic boyfriend, and this neighbor full of hate.
Well, when I started having this panic attacks I had them just twice a year and I could control them. Sadly, not anymore. And they are more frequent now.
Anyways, I have been very sad, nervous and with a
general lack of energy. But I promise I will do my best to feel everyday better.
Thanks again for your understanding and support.
Love, Susy
Posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 13:21:02
In reply to Re: speaking of tuna, posted by Susy on July 20, 2003, at 23:10:42
hola Susy, and anyone else,
gosh, it sounds wonderful that you had a night that even included dancing! I can imagine -- with my own kind of nostalgia -- what that meant to you.
I'm wondering if you and others here too have found that this kind of depression causes you to actually avoid music? I am someone who loves, loves, loves music... For more often than not in my life, my place is filled with music, and I have loved to dance all my life, I even samba-ed in Carnaval when i lived in Brazil... I would love nothing more than to put Brazilian samba on the stereo to accompany me as i would prepare meals for guests of the kind that involve starting hours in advance...
But when i get depressed, and this means for the past year solidly, I don't even turn music on on the radio. I tend to find it almost "oppressive" for some reason. I listen to talk radio like NPR in the car, i have TV on at home but i don't even listen to my stereo. If I occasionally try it, i just don't feel what i associate feeling with music. And perhaps it's to keep myself from being reminded of what's "missing" that i just avoid it.
I did go out with friends to dinner last night and driving home there was nothing but music on any of the radio stations and found myself thinking about this as i tried to find "talk" instead, and thought how odd this was given how much i LOVE music. And I thought of it being summer and how much i always would go to the Hollywood Bowl or some such concert at least once every summer, but i can't imagine doing so now. It would feel like going through the motions and i would just feel the lack of enthusiasm that i wouldn't spontaneously have.
Has anyone else experienced this with their depression? I crave the day that i will thirst for music again. It will be such a sign to me that i'm "over the hill"... Does anyone else know what i'm talking about or had such feelings?
Susy, as to your "missing" your "ex," I guess what i would encourage you to do is ask yourself if your nostalgia is based on yearning to be in love and feel loved rather than for your "ex" per se. Given how he treated you so disrespectfully, I think it's soooo important for your recovery of self-confidence to remind yourself when such "missing" moments come back that when he was there, you also were "missing" -- missing yourself, your internal peace of mind and heart...
A dear dear friend who was like a second father to me once told me something i wished i'd heard when i was first starting to date. He had told his daughters at that age that, as they began to date, what he hoped for them was that when they came home from a date or when they were alone again, they would ask themselves NOT the classic romantic questions of pop music like "Will he love me?" etc. but instead to ask them to think about how they felt about themselves after being with him, whether they came away feeling happy to be who they are as they are, not wanting to change something to try to please the guy but feeling very happy with being themselves and being appreciated for who they already are.
I think that advice is golden for everyone, male and female, as a way of perceiving whether we are in a good relationship or not -- same with friends as with romantic relationships. (Same with parents and children too actually -- and that's where i think the pattern begins. If we grow up feeling not so good about ourselves because of things our parents say to us, then we start to associate love with not feeling good about ourselves or trying to please others, and then we get so easily confused and wind up confusing a need to please another person with a notion that that is "love").
well, those are my 2c for the day. I get too exhausted after reading and rsponding to a few posts so i'm going to exit for a while and try to catch up more later...
love and hugs,
zinya
Posted by willie on July 21, 2003, at 13:26:07
In reply to Re: Hey Zinya..it's Willie » willie, posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 12:26:12
Hi Zinya...I'm doing pretty well. I pick up my prescription refill this week. I think I'll see how I do the next month before contacting my doctor about the possibility of dosage increase.
Like you sometimes I can go down a few pounds but it always comes back up. This of course makes me frustrated and I'll eat junk food because I can't lose the weight eating healthy. I know it's not the answer but if I'm going to weigh like those are my regular eating habits I might as well enjoy the food from time to time.
I'm not sure of the dosage of effexor you started off at. There are sooooo many postings on this site that one can only go back so far to read someone else's story. Did you begin at 37.5? If so, what was it like to go to 75? Do you have these vivid dreams that I read about in other people's postings?
You state that 150mg is the defining factor to see whether or not this drug will be effective for you. Have you noticed any improvement since you've started? May I ask how your adrenal system became depleted? Due to physical illness or emotional stress? Please forgive me if I'm being too personal...you need not answer that question if you don't want to.
Both you and Mercedes share so much with the people who post on this site. It's so nice to speak with others who can relate to what you're saying.
Well...I wish you the best of luck with the transitional period from 100 to 150mg. I hope this dosage is what you need. I'll be most anxious (no pun intended) to see how you respond to the new dosage. My thoughts will be with you...Willie
Posted by mercedes on July 21, 2003, at 13:30:51
In reply to Re: to Susy, personal, re local referral » Susy, posted by zinya on July 21, 2003, at 11:52:29
Zinya, regarding the "know about everything" comment Susy made. Take the compliment and run with it girl. One thing that I learned about co-depependents, is that it's hard for us to take compliments because we haven't thought about ourselves in such a long time.
Susy, I heard what you meant. Zinya has helped you so much with her knowledge and you were complimenting her. Zinya went the extra mile to help you with the counselor. That's why I included you, Z, in my original post to Susy.
Zinya, you don't come accross as a "know it all". The information you provide may be helpful to some and maybe not to others. We have a choice to read it or not to. I happen to read all the posts.....I'm addicted to this site, he he.
I personally want to reach into this computer and give you both a big hug. Losing your mom, having to deal with the house, I've been there and I still have boxes to unpack which are still in the garage. I moved last Sept. It's going to be a year and you know what, I'll get to it when I "feel" like it or when I'm "mentally healthy" enough. That's my attitude. Life is too short to waste being critical of ourselves. We've had a lifetime of people criticizing us. At least I have. NO MAS !
((((Hugs)))
Mercedes
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