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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 3:51:32
In reply to Re: Susy needs help!, posted by Susy on June 21, 2003, at 0:00:16
Susy, I too am on Xanex, which calms me, however I've had severe panic attacks where my eyes get this crossed eye vision (I have not heard anyone say this about their panic attacks yet). After I have these attacks, which leave me with slurred speach, a very bad headache, and then I fall asleep for a few hours, I usually don't remember much of anything that happened right before the attack.
The combination of the xanex and effexor have decreased these attacks but it only takes a little stress or if someone says negative things to me, or my 23 year old son upsets me, I usually get these attacks a few days later. I hate them.
I also feared taking any medication for the first time. The strongest med I'd ever taken was tylenol, until I developed PTSD. I was so scared to take a new medication that I would ask a freind to stay with me until the med took effect. And I've tried alot of them. Paxil did not work for me. I recently tried Gabitrol. YUK, I had dizzyness, headaches, stomach pains and shooting needles coming out of my skin, like ants crawling all over me. I stopped taking it and called my Psyc dr and told him I couldn't take it. I also tried St Johns Wart several years ago and the box is in a drawer somewhere. I don't remember why I stopped. I recomend you read up on it first and talk to your Dr. first.
Mercedes
Posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 4:16:05
In reply to Re: Susy needs help! » Susy, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 3:51:32
Hi everyone, I'd like to tell you all that I have have had, not only PTSD, Panic Disorder, Anxioty attacks, agraphobia, for the past six years. This has prevented me from driving freeways. I used to live in L.A. county. When my driving got real scary, my carpoolers used to drive my car when it was my week to drive. My family lived in central CA, and I was forced to take the bus or train yet I had two cars in the driveway.
Tomorrow, I'm driving from Fresno to Pomona CA (about a 5 hour drive) for the first time in 6 years. I just told myself that I am not going to let this illness control me any longer. Also, the medications I'm taking now have me at a comfort level (effexor and xanex). So, pray for me, that I make it. My son and daugter-n-law are having their baby girl 06/23. I'm going to help my daughter n law after her cesarian. But none the less, my challenge is, making the drive. I'm tired of being in this prison and tired of my fear of driving. I'm going to do it!
Pray for me, and I'll be back on this message board in about a week or so, God willing. I'll miss you all. I think being a part of this support system has helped me make the decision to drive again. Knowing others feel or have felt like me, makes me feel I'm not alone.
Sincerely,
Scared but determined.....mercedes
Posted by brian green on June 21, 2003, at 4:26:17
In reply to Re: grogginess and insomnia » brian green, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 2:50:59
M - - cannot wait for that to happen, I will watch the news! Thanks for the insight.
Posted by Rickey on June 21, 2003, at 4:53:47
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Am on day 19 (75 mg). Sweating has stopped and am feeling great. One thing I have noticed is my dreams. I have always have had vivid dreams. I think one reason is that I sleep with the TV on. I'm sure that triggers many dream themes. Most of the time they were not very pleasent. Was always being threatened, lots of running etc. For the past few weeks when I waken and remember the dreams they are always "sweet dreams" very pleasent. Wake with a smile. In fact a few nights ago I had a dream that I was attending my own funeral. But it was not scary. Was a peaceful experience and even funny in parts. Was wondering if there is any connection with taking the drug.
Posted by brian green on June 21, 2003, at 5:14:28
In reply to Driving a problem?, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 4:16:05
well merc, you have the perfect name for it. and I can tell by the vibes you are sending over here in alabama that you area ready. I hope you have a great time, you inspire me to take a next step today! I will let you know what it is when I wake up fully. you are the best! take plenty of your meds with you!!!!!Let us know when you get back, and we will expect to see the baby's photo so be thinking about how you can scan or whatever.
Brian
Posted by brian green on June 21, 2003, at 5:20:17
In reply to Effexor XR Dreams........., posted by Rickey on June 21, 2003, at 4:53:47
Rickey, I have not really experienced any unusual dreams since being on EFF, however I have been fine tuning on something to make me sleep, and one of those had me on top of a submarine walking a rope ladder with the other men, some of them my friends. We bought tomatoes on the way back at the curb market. Nah, nothing weird.
Brian
Posted by CherC68 on June 21, 2003, at 8:45:01
In reply to Driving a problem?, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 4:16:05
Gosh, I haven't been online in 1-1/2 days and I've missed so much. Suzy, I'm so very sorry that I haven'responded. I don't know much about Paxil, my friend takes it and she swears by it. No side effects for her except losing weight, which is something I could use, but...Everyone on here is so very nice, and keep writing. Something here is bound to click, or someone here is bound to come up with something to help you out.
Mercedes, You can do it! Try to keep relaxed. I myself have always been afraid to drive expressways, but I get through it by listening to soothing music, Enigma, etc. and keeping your determination to help your daughter-in-law and see your new Grandbaby will pull you through. Just keep your eyes open, and drive, don't let the fear drive you, and know that we are all thinking about you, and I'll be praying for you!
Hugs, Cher
Posted by zinya on June 21, 2003, at 13:46:30
In reply to Driving a problem?, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 4:16:05
hi Mercedes,
how exciting for you - will this be your first grandchild?
i quite empathize with your sense of agoraphobia... I've come to realize in recent weeks that i may have become agoraphobic at least to some degree myself during this depression... I don't feel panic about going out but i feel a sense of fatigue that takes over, sometimes in the throes of dressing to leave for somewhere and, if it's at all optional, i wind up deciding not to go, repeatedly. It is some sort of anxiety but kind of generalized...
It's a bit ironic to me cuz some years back my work led me to being aware of some research on agoraphobics and one thing i know is that a breakthrough point for some at least is realizing that the trigger for panic is actually the *anticipation* of panic. Meaning it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy once one believes that a panic attack is likely to be triggered by a certain setting...
Easier said than done, by far, but this means that if it's possible to deprogram one's first thoughts that an event might lead to panic, perhaps with a ready set of counter visualizations (like recall of pleasant past road trips? or of your envisioned grandchild) to draw on might help...
Wishing you a peaceful road trip - and maybe a diverse repertoire of tapes for any mood that might strike, from belting out some oldies but goodies all the way to more mellow stuff like Cher suggested (Enigma *is* great!) ...
hugs to you!,
zinya
Posted by Rickey on June 21, 2003, at 17:37:26
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Have been taking 75 mg about 2 weeks. Everything has been great(see previous posts) however yesterday I missed taking my pill. Didn't have any problems. This morning took my regular dose and have felt down all day. Tired and sleepy. Spent all day in bed. Has anyone elsde experienced this?
Posted by bornred on June 22, 2003, at 0:39:32
In reply to Missed dosage problem on Effexor XR? , posted by Rickey on June 21, 2003, at 17:37:26
I have been on Effexor XR for about 5 months now. I have tingling in my lips and tongue and dizzinesss when I miss a dose. I too get very depressed when I miss it. It seems that I get more depressed than what I was before starting Effexor. That just may be because I have gotten use to not being depressed. I have gone for about 4 days without it due to financial needs and it is the worse. The symptoms are not constant. I can be fine and then the symptoms come on. Then if I take a nap, they go away for a little while. I recommend not missing any does as I have....
Posted by Sabina on June 22, 2003, at 15:21:20
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP!, posted by NThompson on June 19, 2003, at 15:26:26
I haven't been closely following this thread, but here's my own take on it: I am on meds for anxiety/depression. I have had some extremely black times, especially as of late. I am sometimes asked to babysit for my newborn nephew. I have chosen *not* to disclose my situation to my brother, because:
1) I feel confident that I do a good job taking care of him, and I know I'll be responsible enough to remove myself from the job if I did get worse.
2) I know that he'll hesitate to ask for my help if he feels like I'm having a hard time (out of concern for me), when I know helping him out really makes me feel better.
Posted by Susy on June 22, 2003, at 20:21:08
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP!, posted by Sabina on June 22, 2003, at 15:21:20
To Sabina:
Sabina I think must of us in this support group suffer anxiety, panic attacks, OBD, depression, etc...so you are not alone. If you have being suffering this "issues" by now you may be able to know yourself a little better. I do have extremely horrible panic attacks but I know that I will never harm nobody but me =(. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that we are not crazy and that we are "controling" our symptons taking our meds. It is up to you if you want to be honest. But, I think that all of us by wanting to feel better, and acknowledging our a/d.,is because we are working on it, I've known some people who will never admit they are neurotics, ezquizo, etc...and don't take care of themselves.
Well, I hope it may help to you.
Susy
Posted by racergurl74 on June 22, 2003, at 21:19:10
In reply to Re: Susy needs help! » Susy, posted by mercedes on June 21, 2003, at 3:51:32
I don't want anyone to get the wrong message from what I want to say. I have been on effexor for 7 days and just found this posting site. I've read everyone's experiences. Before effexor, I had been on prozac 20 mg. for about 5 years. I originally started the med because of marital problems and needed something to help me thru it. Everything worked out and I'm still married, going on 19 years. Heres my thing, when do you know if you don't need any meds any more? For the past 2 days I have forgotten my effexor and I have the worst nausua ever today. The prozac had begun to make me very lifeless and tired and lazy and sleepy, that's why I wanted to change to effexor. But now, I kind of feel like maybe I don't need any meds any more. My family practice doc prescribes it for me. I've never been to a phsyc. dr. I would just like to be my old self again and not be medicated if I don't have to be. I can remember feeling so much more energetic before I started prozac and I would love to discontinue if I could. I asked my dr. and he said, "ok", just to stop, that I'm not on high enough dosage to taper off. What do you think.
Posted by Sabina on June 22, 2003, at 21:45:52
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP!, posted by Susy on June 22, 2003, at 20:21:08
> To Sabina:
> Sabina I think must of us in this support group suffer anxiety, panic attacks, OBD, depression, etc...so you are not alone. If you have being suffering this "issues" by now you may be able to know yourself a little better. I do have extremely horrible panic attacks but I know that I will never harm nobody but me =(. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that we are not crazy and that we are "controling" our symptons taking our meds. It is up to you if you want to be honest. But, I think that all of us by wanting to feel better, and acknowledging our a/d.,is because we are working on it, I've known some people who will never admit they are neurotics, ezquizo, etc...and don't take care of themselves.
> Well, I hope it may help to you.
> SusySusy,
I honestly don't understand the vantage of the above text. I believe there may have been crossed signals beween us at some point and I'm sure I'm to blame. I'm sure you meant well, just as I did in addressing the "moral dilemma" you petitioned advice for in reference to caring for the young children of an acquaintance.
Just to clarify no my behalf, in case I've been remiss: I do suffer from anxiety, I am on medication, I am in therapy, I do take care of myself, and I do have a strong support system, both virtually and physically. I don't believe I said anything about feeling alone or being dishonest. In fact, I make absolutely no secret of my anxiety, my medication, or my therapy to anyone.All I was trying to say (and obviously doing a poor job at it) is that I don't feel it's necessary to reveal every gory detail of your lowest moments (i.e. suicide attempts) in order to feel sufficiently forthcoming to the woman whose places her children in your trust. I do apologize for any miscommunication on my part and wish you the best of success in this endeavor and all others.
Regards,
Sabina
Posted by sierra1 on June 22, 2003, at 22:13:10
In reply to Should I stop effexor, posted by racergurl74 on June 22, 2003, at 21:19:10
My doc told me that no matter what type of AD a patient is on, she always tapers them off. Maybe you should get another opinion?
Posted by zinya on June 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
In reply to Should I stop effexor, posted by racergurl74 on June 22, 2003, at 21:19:10
hi racer,
It's so hard to suggest anything about dosages when we're not doctors and not seeing you, but i would tend to agree with sierra that tapering off seems really important. From everything i've read here of people going through withdrawal -- and now with your nausea you say is really bad after skipping 2 days... it seems like any abrupt cessation causes harsh side effects.You didn't say what dose you were on, but i assume it's either 37.5 or 75 from what you say. I guess if it were me -- and you have only 75 mg capsules left (is it XR? capsules?) -- then i'd open up a capsule and take half the granules and then the other half 24 hrs later and do that for a few days to help taper off and hopefully minimize side effects.
Good luck to you... and write again to let us know how things are... And do understand that one thing we all learn for sure from this website is that every one of reacts differently to these drugs, so what works for one person is almost guaranteed to *not* work exactly the same way for the next person.
zinya
Posted by melley on June 23, 2003, at 6:55:28
In reply to Should I stop effexor, posted by racergurl74 on June 22, 2003, at 21:18:33
> I don't want anyone to get the wrong message from what I want to say. I have been on effexor for 7 days and just found this posting site. I've read everyone's experiences. Before effexor, I had been on prozac 20 mg. for about 5 years. I originally started the med because of marital problems and needed something to help me thru it. Everything worked out and I'm still married, going on 19 years. Heres my thing, when do you know if you don't need any meds any more? For the past 2 days I have forgotten my effexor and I have the worst nausua ever today. The prozac had begun to make me very lifeless and tired and lazy and sleepy, that's why I wanted to change to effexor. But now, I kind of feel like maybe I don't need any meds any more. My family practice doc prescribes it for me. I've never been to a phsyc. dr. I would just like to be my old self again and not be medicated if I don't have to be. I can remember feeling so much more energetic before I started prozac and I would love to discontinue if I could. I asked my dr. and he said, "ok", just to stop, that I'm not on high enough dosage to taper off. What do you think.
I think you will still need to taper off. Now, about needing meds. Generally the way it works with meds is that the first time you have a depressive episode you take it for a year. Then go off. If the depression comes back then you go on it long term. This is just what I learned in my travels. Might not be a bad idea to go off all and then it you are still feeling bad get back on. What about wellbutrin? That helps with depression but usually makes you more energetic then less. melissa
Posted by Donna Louise on June 23, 2003, at 7:29:59
In reply to Re: Susy needs help!, posted by Susy on June 21, 2003, at 0:00:16
> > Susy, Hi! Sorry your post got lost or redirected. What's going wrong in your life? Are you severely depressed or suffering from anxiety? Do you have a diagnosis? Paxil isn't the only med out there. Your English seems pretty good to me. Hang in there!
> >
> > Kim
>
> Hi again, you guys almost make me cry;lately I feel everything doble; thanks for your support.Brian, Mercedes, Kim, Kimberly, all of you: I don't even know where to start. Ok,I have been on Xanax this last time for a year already,for the anxiety and the Panic Attacks but it is not helping anymore =( I feel confused; somedays I don't feel like doing anything, not even answer the phone. So I went to this Dr. She gave me Paxil CR, 25mg; I took it, and I had the strongest panic attack I ever had!!! I wasn't even able to control my own thoughts I felt like if I was on LSD or something =( and not able to sleep with my heart racing all night. Then I went and told the Dr. again, she said it is ok if I take the Paxil along with Xanax until the Paxil kicks in. But Iam so affraid. It's been 2 weeks already and I am still thinking about it everyday.Still Keeping my xanax dose. Somedays I feel with no energy at all but still very agitated inside.I think I have develop some kind of Phobia to meds, all are very strong for me, and that makes me feel very bad, what if I have to go to the hospital and they give me something I can't stand? I envy you guys taking your meds everyday. Should I give it a try with St. John's Wort? but, could I mix it with Xanax?
> What do you recommend?
> Will continue in next post so I don't make it very long.......Suzy
> >
> > > Hi, I am new to the list, but I did send a message and didn't receive any answer =(
> > > Maybe I am in another thread? The title was I am scared of this med, HELP! I said that I don't feel strong enough to try Paxil again; that I am very sentisitive for meds, etc...
> > > Maybe I'm doing something wrong to get the message post? Or maybe somebody deleted cause the things I said? Or maybe cause my English is not perfect....I also need to learn from you guys, so please let me know if you read this message so I can explain.....
> > > Thanks =) Susy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Hi Susy,
Just to let you know, when my husband started paxil, he had to begin with 5mg and titrate to 10mg. That is all he needs, lucky guy (I needed 40). This is not the extended release though. Anyway, it took him a few weeks to adjust to it even at that low dose. But now he feels better than I have ever known him to feel and I have known him for a long time!
Hope this offers some encouragement.Donna
Posted by CherC68 on June 23, 2003, at 8:03:57
In reply to Should I stop effexor, posted by racergurl74 on June 22, 2003, at 21:19:10
No matter how long or how much dosage you are on, you should still go slow. I was on Effexor 6 days of 37.5 and I had some pretty wicked withdrawals, but I am doing better with the Side Effects/Withdrawals - well, cause there are no more side effects and the Withdrawals are gone!
Take Care.
Hugs, Cher
Posted by jtc on June 23, 2003, at 8:08:35
In reply to Re: Should I stop effexor, posted by melley on June 23, 2003, at 6:55:28
> > I don't want anyone to get the wrong message from what I want to say. I have been on effexor for 7 days and just found this posting site. I've read everyone's experiences. Before effexor, I had been on prozac 20 mg. for about 5 years. I originally started the med because of marital problems and needed something to help me thru it. Everything worked out and I'm still married, going on 19 years. Heres my thing, when do you know if you don't need any meds any more? For the past 2 days I have forgotten my effexor and I have the worst nausua ever today. The prozac had begun to make me very lifeless and tired and lazy and sleepy, that's why I wanted to change to effexor. But now, I kind of feel like maybe I don't need any meds any more. My family practice doc prescribes it for me. I've never been to a phsyc. dr. I would just like to be my old self again and not be medicated if I don't have to be. I can remember feeling so much more energetic before I started prozac and I would love to discontinue if I could. I asked my dr. and he said, "ok", just to stop, that I'm not on high enough dosage to taper off. What do you think.
>
> I think you will still need to taper off. Now, about needing meds. Generally the way it works with meds is that the first time you have a depressive episode you take it for a year. Then go off. If the depression comes back then you go on it long term. This is just what I learned in my travels. Might not be a bad idea to go off all and then it you are still feeling bad get back on. What about wellbutrin? That helps with depression but usually makes you more energetic then less. melissaHi, I took Effexor for about 1 year but before that I was on Luvox for about 3 or 4 years. My psychiatrist suggested that I stop the Effexor this past spring just to "clean out" my system and see how I did without it. Well I am doing okay. I do feel a little better because I had read about so many side effects and bad things about the Effexor but it did help me while I was on it. It was difficult getting off of it though. I also had the nausea and the dizziness and strange feelings in my head. But that is all gone now. I have been off Effexor for about 2 months now but I still take Klonopin,.5 mg every night just for anxiety. I am starting to think I need to be taking another antidepressant because I have zero patience with my two girls and my husband. I am a stay at home mom and I do medical transcription from home but my husband is still very controlling of our finances and he nickels and dimes everything I do or buy and it seems like he just thinks he is always right about things and I am always wrong. I feel as though he just does not care about me like he used to. He sometimes talks down to me like I am 10 years old, but we have been married for 18 years and there is a lot of "stuff" that I am upset with him about but anyway we have two small girls and I just cannot let them be without a father because I grew up without my father because of divorce. Anyway enough about my junk. Good luck to you and you might try Benadryl for dizziness or nausea while going off Effexor. Hang in there, you can do it. jtc
Posted by racergurl74 on June 23, 2003, at 10:17:29
In reply to Re: Should I stop effexor, posted by jtc on June 23, 2003, at 8:08:35
First of all, I want to thank everyone here for your suggestions. It really helps to talk to people who know more about these things than I do. I am on effexor XR 75 mg. and I actually wondered about taking the capsule apart and taking half. Thanx for the suggestion. As far as Wellbutrin, I've only tried Prozac and now the effexor but I really want to be medication free, if I can. I also have small children and stay at home and I hope I can have patiencealso but right now I actually feel like I tune them out alot {kinda zombified sometimes} so what's worse? {I don't know}My husband has gotten so used to me being so passive and agreeable on the meds that if I stand up to him about something he immediatetly thinks I must be "out of meds". That really scares me into thinking that we may have problems if I get off, but I really want to try.
Posted by Susy on June 23, 2003, at 10:25:24
In reply to Re: I have a moral dilemma, HELP! » Susy, posted by Sabina on June 22, 2003, at 21:45:52
My dear Sabina, when I said you are not alone,I just wanted to let you know we all feel the same way as you everyday;(or maybe worst) if I tell you one of my days maybe you would like to cry. About the honest part, maybe I didn't use the correct word, It happens to me that I try to explain to my sons and it seems they don't understand,all they want is me bringing money from work and cleaning, etc.... and other friends think I exagerate and play the victim, or worst they look at me like saying, be careful, you can die or get crazy. When I was giving my opinion I was just trying to say that we do understand, because we do suffer the same.
I am very sorry for the misunderstandings, might be my english though.
But,you have a friend here, it that helps.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 23, 2003, at 10:42:42
In reply to Effexor XR Dreams........., posted by Rickey on June 21, 2003, at 4:53:47
I've heard lots of people talking about the vivid dreams. Before Effexor, I always had the knightmares about running for my life. Lately, whenever I can concentrate enough to read, I've been reading books about sorcery, magic, dragons, mythical creatures. I have the most amazing dreams about them at night. It's very cool. I've been experiencing other side effects that aren't cool; the constipation and zilcho-orgasms. :(
Keep enjoying those dreams!
Kim> Am on day 19 (75 mg). Sweating has stopped and am feeling great. One thing I have noticed is my dreams. I have always have had vivid dreams. I think one reason is that I sleep with the TV on. I'm sure that triggers many dream themes. Most of the time they were not very pleasent. Was always being threatened, lots of running etc. For the past few weeks when I waken and remember the dreams they are always "sweet dreams" very pleasent. Wake with a smile. In fact a few nights ago I had a dream that I was attending my own funeral. But it was not scary. Was a peaceful experience and even funny in parts. Was wondering if there is any connection with taking the drug.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 23, 2003, at 10:52:28
In reply to Re: Driving a problem? » mercedes, posted by zinya on June 21, 2003, at 13:46:30
Robert Miles is good, and Jim Brickman always soothed me (music CD's). Fear of panic attacks have triggered a few for me. Then again, I would wake up in the middle of one, heart racing. I used to count backwards from 100 until I calmed down, however many times it took. We're proud of you Mercedes. You're taking great steps.
Kim> hi Mercedes,
>
> how exciting for you - will this be your first grandchild?
>
> i quite empathize with your sense of agoraphobia... I've come to realize in recent weeks that i may have become agoraphobic at least to some degree myself during this depression... I don't feel panic about going out but i feel a sense of fatigue that takes over, sometimes in the throes of dressing to leave for somewhere and, if it's at all optional, i wind up deciding not to go, repeatedly. It is some sort of anxiety but kind of generalized...
>
> It's a bit ironic to me cuz some years back my work led me to being aware of some research on agoraphobics and one thing i know is that a breakthrough point for some at least is realizing that the trigger for panic is actually the *anticipation* of panic. Meaning it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy once one believes that a panic attack is likely to be triggered by a certain setting...
>
> Easier said than done, by far, but this means that if it's possible to deprogram one's first thoughts that an event might lead to panic, perhaps with a ready set of counter visualizations (like recall of pleasant past road trips? or of your envisioned grandchild) to draw on might help...
>
> Wishing you a peaceful road trip - and maybe a diverse repertoire of tapes for any mood that might strike, from belting out some oldies but goodies all the way to more mellow stuff like Cher suggested (Enigma *is* great!) ...
>
> hugs to you!,
> zinya
>
Posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 1:33:44
In reply to Re: Effexor XR Dreams......... » Rickey, posted by KimberlyDi on June 23, 2003, at 10:42:42
Hey there Kim,
I have seen a few people talking about not being able to have orgasms when on Effexor XR, that is what I am on. I only started on the 13th of this month. When did you notice that you couldn't have them anymore? I am really scared about this. My husband and I have a great sex life and I like that I get an orgasm be fore he does. He makes sure of that. We even have sex 3-4 times a week, except for the week I'm on my monthly. I really like my orgasms, how do I keep them? Please help me with this one. The bedroom has been the only place in my life for the past few years that I feel that I have control over! When we are together, I don't think about anything but us. Making love and being in love. I can control anything there.
Thanks for listening,
NThompson
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