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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 3 to 27 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by Craig Getty on June 20, 2003, at 3:25:47
In reply to nardil with provigil, posted by Craig Getty on May 23, 2003, at 23:57:53
Has anyone had experience taking ecstacy (MDMA) while on an MAOI?
Posted by ant-rock on June 20, 2003, at 14:06:08
In reply to MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by Craig Getty on June 20, 2003, at 3:25:47
> Has anyone had experience taking ecstacy (MDMA) while on an MAOI?
DO NOT take ecstacy while on an maoi.
A good friend of mine took 1/2 hit while on parnate, and ended up in the emergency room extremely close to a coma.
I am not joking here.
Posted by craig getty on June 21, 2003, at 5:19:49
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy » Craig Getty, posted by ant-rock on June 20, 2003, at 14:06:08
That's serious. Thanks for your reply. I knew the warnings, but I asked b/c I had met someone who said she had done ecstacy while taking an MAOI and didn't experience any negative effects. She said that as long as it was pure mdma and not speed, then the risks weren't nearly as high.
She also told me she had even done coke and was fine as long as she kept it to very little.
> > Has anyone had experience taking ecstacy (MDMA) while on an MAOI?
>
> DO NOT take ecstacy while on an maoi.
>
> A good friend of mine took 1/2 hit while on parnate, and ended up in the emergency room extremely close to a coma.
>
> I am not joking here.
>
Posted by indivmed on June 21, 2003, at 13:09:08
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by craig getty on June 21, 2003, at 5:19:49
> That's serious. Thanks for your reply. I knew the warnings, but I asked b/c I had met someone who said she had done ecstacy while taking an MAOI and didn't experience any negative effects. She said that as long as it was pure mdma and not speed, then the risks weren't nearly as high.
>
> She also told me she had even done coke and was fine as long as she kept it to very little.
>
>
> > > Has anyone had experience taking ecstacy (MDMA) while on an MAOI?
> >
> > DO NOT take ecstacy while on an maoi.
> >
> > A good friend of mine took 1/2 hit while on parnate, and ended up in the emergency room extremely close to a coma.
> >
> > I am not joking here.
> >
>
>
Do you really want to take a chance at death just to get high on X? Furthermore, the MAOI that your friend was on may not even be affecting serotonin (i.e. selegeline affects dopamine) and FINALLY, it seems that you unaware of whether it is reversible or irreversible. Mixing an MAOI with MDMA has got to be the most dangerous thing I have ever heard--mixing an MAOI with speed IS done infrequently with VERY careful doctor monitoring, but MAOI and MDMA is a ridiculous notion. It scares me that someone would even conjure up a plan such as this.Rick
*I apologize for being so uptight about this, but you are playing with a loaded gun here. Not to mention the fact that your friend's drug use might have something to do with her need to be on an MAOI in the first place.
Posted by Sunnely on June 22, 2003, at 21:09:58
In reply to MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by Craig Getty on June 20, 2003, at 3:25:47
MAOI and Ecstacy is a very dangerous combination. A severe serotonin syndrome can occur, complicated by hyperthermia, muscular rigidity, acute renal failure (due to rhabdomyolysis) and death is not a remote possibility.
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2003, at 22:30:28
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by Sunnely on June 22, 2003, at 21:09:58
You know, I am not comfortable with all this talk about E - the stuff can kill you by itself and it's not legal. I don't think this is the place to discuss it.
Max
Posted by lil' jimi on June 23, 2003, at 0:16:44
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2003, at 22:30:28
hi maxime,
> You know, I am not comfortable with all this talk about E - the stuff can kill you by itself and it's not legal. I don't think this is the place to discuss it.
>
> Maxgiven the excellent responses mr. getty has benefited from by posting his question here, why wouldn't we be better served by encouraging this discussion here.
what better than conscientious, knowledgeable people providing their useful insights to the uninformed..... ... no matter how misguided ?
... ... (no offense intended craig!) ... ...
where better than here?... ... i am concerned about you being uncomfortable and i would hope i don't make you more so ... ...
... i'm more comfortable having craig's question aired out here, than i would be if such questions were not allowed to be asked ... ... ...
... ... may all of the misguided come here that they might avert disaster ...
TAKE CARE !!!!
~ jim
Posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 10:02:57
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy » Maxime, posted by lil' jimi on June 23, 2003, at 0:16:44
I guess I can deal with it and avoid looking at the posts. But if I start to see "MAOI and Cocaine" or "MAOI and LSD" - I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES. They don't need to worry if they are taking SSRI's, or what. Hard drugs are bad and they are addictive and they will reck your life.
PS. And no, I am not an ex-addict.
Max
> hi maxime,
>
> > You know, I am not comfortable with all this talk about E - the stuff can kill you by itself and it's not legal. I don't think this is the place to discuss it.
> >
> > Max
>
> given the excellent responses mr. getty has benefited from by posting his question here, why wouldn't we be better served by encouraging this discussion here.
>
> what better than conscientious, knowledgeable people providing their useful insights to the uninformed..... ... no matter how misguided ?
> ... ... (no offense intended craig!) ... ...
> where better than here?
>
> ... ... i am concerned about you being uncomfortable and i would hope i don't make you more so ... ...
>
> ... i'm more comfortable having craig's question aired out here, than i would be if such questions were not allowed to be asked ... ... ...
>
> ... ... may all of the misguided come here that they might avert disaster ...
> TAKE CARE !!!!
> ~ jim
Posted by lil' jimi on June 23, 2003, at 10:57:30
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 10:02:57
hi again Maxime,
> I guess I can deal with it and avoid looking at the posts. But if I start to see "MAOI and Cocaine" or "MAOI and LSD" - I will be p*ss*d off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES. They don't need to worry if they are taking SSRI's, or what. Hard drugs are bad and they are addictive and they will wreck your life.
>
> PS. And no, I am not an ex-addict.
>
> Max
Maxime, we really agree about these illicit drugs and the immense dangers they pose: we are against them as a matter of principle.(fwiw, i do have a history of recreational drug use in my past ... ... i'm not really proud of this, but it shouldn't matter to this discussion ... so, there's no concern on my part wrt your p.s. ... except i'm glad for you that you have not suffered from drug abuse.)
i believe the issue here is:
Which are the best means to effectively discourage people from using these dangerous drugs?
.... ... (given that the widely available knowledge of their dangers can be ignored by the misguided, who could come to us as alternative authorities...)1) disallow any discussion of such drugs
or
2) allow discussion of such drugs.i think that 1) does not effectively discourage such drug abuse and may amount to just hoping to ... wish them away ... in the ensueing silence.
whereas we have experieced with Craig that 2), at least in this specific instance (which i feel is an appropriate example), has provided valuable, informative discouragement ... to guide our poster away from a possible catastrophic diasaster.
1) has been shown to be ineffective, if not encouraging of such dangerous risk taking.
again, i sympathize with your good sentiments, Maxime ... ... i would not intend to offend you.
but i feel, strongly, that the better interests of our posters are served by keeping our discussions as open as possible ...
... even if they are asking about heroin or crack... or alcohol or tobacco ... or ephedra ... et cetera .. ... ..
i just don't imagine that we could be of benefit to the misguided ... by ignoring them...
... ... i would think that they need us the most.i hope i have not made you mad Maxime.... i wish you well.
TAKE CARE!!!!
~ jim
Posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 15:27:06
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 10:02:57
I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES.
How do you know what I know ?
Given that your above statement is
wrong (I am alive, and so are others)
& you are making sweeping generalizations
perhaps it is also you that should be ignored.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on June 23, 2003, at 16:49:31
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 10:02:57
>But if I start to see "MAOI and Cocaine" or "MAOI and LSD" - I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES.
---------------Man, I've been burned bad in the past on this board for daring to mention anything about illegal drugs. Whether or not you feel that the distinction between legal and illegal drugs is somewhat arbitrary, their use is still a crime, could hurt you, and clearly makes people here uncomfortable.
I've found that a good forum for dispassionate conversation of such issues to be http://www.erowid.org
It's a pretty decent site, with lots of information, links, experiences, and stories about drugs both legal and illegal. Probably a better forum for such discussions than psychobabble.
My only complaint with banning illegal drug discussion from PB is that they aren't all just *recreational*. It's possible that some people's lives can be made better by using such drugs in a controlled manner (i.e: many people here use dextroamphetamine), but research and discussion of such uses is anathema, cast aside as the ramblings of junkies. As others have mentioned, such freedom of discussion also allows for information on the hazards of such drugs to be conveyed. Legislation is not the best indication of a chemical's utility.
Posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 17:40:59
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 15:27:06
Feel free to ignore me ... I have no problem with that. Most people do anyway.
Max
Posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 17:50:16
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 15:27:06
Oh and thank you for making me feel so good about myself. I said I would ignore the thread, I never said I would ignore an individual.
As Daffy Duck would say "thanks for the sour persinums, bud".
A saint you ain't!
> I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES.
>
> How do you know what I know ?
> Given that your above statement is
> wrong (I am alive, and so are others)
> & you are making sweeping generalizations
> perhaps it is also you that should be ignored.
>
>
Posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 18:33:09
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy -stjames, posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 17:50:16
> Oh and thank you for making me feel so good about myself. I said I would ignore the thread, I never said I would ignore an individual.
You are responsible for your own feelings.
It is important to get the fact correct here,
mental illness is serious. If the "War on Drugs"
is fought is misinformation then what good is it ?
Posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 18:36:44
In reply to Alternative site for illegal drug information, posted by Eddie Sylvano on June 23, 2003, at 16:49:31
>
> Man, I've been burned bad in the past on this board for daring to mention anything about illegal drugs.In three years here, this has not been the policy.
Lots of posts on "what happens if I take whatever with x". Bob is conserned with illegal means to get legal meds, only.
Posted by indivmed on June 23, 2003, at 20:08:28
In reply to Re: Alternative site for illegal drug information, posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 18:36:44
Well, this certainly has been a hot topic! As I'm opinionated myself, I don't really understand why everyone is getting so defensive on this subject. If you don't want to read about the implications between X and MAOIs, then don't read the post.I personally would rather someone get information on these postings about the severe dangers of drug/alcohol use with MAOIs than to not get any information period and assume everything is okay. Furthermore, all people are different--just because one person has an issue with it doesn't mean that everyone else does also. Information is the point of all of these posts...I would like to challenge anyone that has serious issues with any legality to look at:
1) why they are so charged on the issue and
2) when have they broken any law themselves?Are we allowed to write posts that are non-Christian or is that going to be an issue now too?
Posted by Sebastian on June 23, 2003, at 22:50:19
In reply to Re: MAOI and X » stjames, posted by indivmed on June 23, 2003, at 20:08:28
I've taken 8-10 double hits of X one night while on Zyprexa. The experiance was not a memerable one. I was up for 4 days, Could not use the bathroom for 14 hours, almost lost vision (everything was grey), could not realy get off the couch in fear that I would pass out from dizzyness, I was acualy afraid that I would never come out of it. 2 weeks later I had red specks on my feet.
Sebastian
Posted by indivmed on June 23, 2003, at 23:10:31
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by Maxime on June 23, 2003, at 10:02:57
> I guess I can deal with it and avoid looking at the posts. But if I start to see "MAOI and Cocaine" or "MAOI and LSD" - I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES. They don't need to worry if they are taking SSRI's, or what. Hard drugs are bad and they are addictive and they will reck your life.
>
> PS. And no, I am not an ex-addict.
>
> MaxMaxime--
I hope you get just as frustrated when seeing posts about combining alcohol with these psychotropic drugs. Like I have mentioned before, statistically, more *incidents* have occurred with "legal" alcohol than any other drug. Furthermore, not all people that experiment with drugs are drug addicts.
There are an abundance of articles in the psychological literature detailing "positive" reports of the use of empathetic drugs such as the hallucinogens (mescaline, LSD, psilocybin, MDMA-X, THC, etc.)--not so much the other drugs however.
I agree that people need to take the fact that they are on an MAOI VERY SERIOUSLY and knock out any experimentation (or addiction--if it ever came to that for that matter)--but in reality, everyone on this posting board is taking a drug in hopes for it to change our perspective on things. That's what experimentation is really all about in the first place--seeing things from an alternate personality.
I don't really know why I have become so passionate about this post, but it's kind of like mental illness, people don't understand a lot of reasons why people do the things they do. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong or shouldn't be posted. Maybe I take it personal because I did experiment in college--and am very glad that I did--I learned a lot and found a lot of my experiences VERY insightful--experiences I don't think I would have had with my friends otherwise. I look at it the same way I look at being Bipolar...I'm much more creative and tend to be much more passionate about life because I can see the extreme perspectives/lenses one can look through to view the world. Now THAT is intense.
Both have been positive experiences in my life.
Rick
*if this stepped on toes, I apologize...but we really are all in this together and are desperately needing each other's help, understanding, experience, and love. Almost all of us are VERY sensitive to rejection (I feel bad when no one responds to my posts!!!!!) and feeling judged is very difficult to process (especially when we've started new meds!).
Posted by Viridis on June 23, 2003, at 23:17:10
In reply to Re: MAOI and X » indivmed, posted by Sebastian on June 23, 2003, at 22:50:19
I don't see anything wrong with discussion of use of illegal drugs together with prescription meds -- many people use illicit drugs and might as well be informed. I guess I'd draw the line at a post that said "wow, try this -- prescription drug A really heightens the effects of street drug B" (or vice versa). But people here are pretty responsible, and I haven't seen anything like that yet.
As long as the discussion is rational and doesn't promote mixing prescription and non-prescription meds (or provide info on obtaining drugs illegally), I think it's a legitimate topic that's relevant to some readers here.
Posted by indivmed on June 23, 2003, at 23:55:12
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2003, at 22:30:28
Max--
Were we the ones that were talking about the classification of "mixed states"?--about how I think the symptoms exist but it is more of an overlap between dual Axis I disorders or an overlap between an Axis I/Axis II disorders--other than somehow lying on this bipolar continuum?
If we didn't have this conversation, ignore this post. If so, how funny that I responded with such strong opinions to another one of your posts--gotta love those people that seem to bring out the opinionated debater out of someone :). I like people like that--makes me REALLY look at my beliefs and question why I believe them. They do change from time to time :).
Hope you are doing well.
Rick
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 24, 2003, at 0:13:59
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by stjames on June 23, 2003, at 15:27:06
> I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES.
>
> MaximeJames is right, please don't jump to conclusions about what others know or don't know.
> How do you know what I know ?
> Given that your above statement is
> wrong (I am alive, and so are others)
> & you are making sweeping generalizations
> perhaps it is also you that should be ignored.
>
> stjamesHowever, I think what Maxime may have been meant was, "these drugs *can* kill people by themselves", not that they necessarily *will*.
Bob
PS: The current policy here is that it's OK to discuss the pros and cons of illegal medications, just not how to obtain them:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by ELENI4 on June 24, 2003, at 12:12:04
In reply to Re: allowing discussion illicit drugs » Maxime, posted by lil' jimi on June 23, 2003, at 10:57:30
I don't think there is anything wrong with asking about drug interactions, illegal or not. Yes, most likely it will mess up one's life to a certain extent (though I do disagree about the mention that LSD will kill). However pharmacists aren't likely to provide information about interactions when the question involves illegal substances and most people will refrain from asking their doctor out of fear. If someone has no place to get information or at least input, he may think twice about mixing drugs, but most likely won't refrain from ultimately doing it, which could truly be harmful because the thought might be..."oh I'm worrying too much, it probably won't do anything." At least he or she will know the inherent risks if any, as there might be no interaction or a truly severe one. Information is a great service, and it shouldn't be denied to anyone.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 24, 2003, at 17:46:11
In reply to Re: MAOI and Ecstacy Jim, posted by indivmed on June 23, 2003, at 23:10:31
Very insightful post. When I first saw the post MAOI & Ecstacy, I was tempted to reply similar to Maxime. I didn't because I've seen other people being post-banned for responding with anger, not being "civil". I'm a recovering addict of a legal, non-prescription drug called alcohol. I read all posts concerning alcohol mixed with AD's, mainly to keep focused on how dangerous it is. As to it being legal, I was under the impression that alcohol is only legal because the government failed in the prohibition, with all the speakeasies & moonshine.
They say "there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers". Good luck to everyone and keep posting!
Kim> > I guess I can deal with it and avoid looking at the posts. But if I start to see "MAOI and Cocaine" or "MAOI and LSD" - I will be pissed off. Like I said, I think it's all a moot point since we all know that these drug will kill people by THEMSELVES. They don't need to worry if they are taking SSRI's, or what. Hard drugs are bad and they are addictive and they will reck your life.
> >
> > PS. And no, I am not an ex-addict.
> >
> > Max
>
> Maxime--
>
> I hope you get just as frustrated when seeing posts about combining alcohol with these psychotropic drugs. Like I have mentioned before, statistically, more *incidents* have occurred with "legal" alcohol than any other drug. Furthermore, not all people that experiment with drugs are drug addicts.
>
> There are an abundance of articles in the psychological literature detailing "positive" reports of the use of empathetic drugs such as the hallucinogens (mescaline, LSD, psilocybin, MDMA-X, THC, etc.)--not so much the other drugs however.
>
> I agree that people need to take the fact that they are on an MAOI VERY SERIOUSLY and knock out any experimentation (or addiction--if it ever came to that for that matter)--but in reality, everyone on this posting board is taking a drug in hopes for it to change our perspective on things. That's what experimentation is really all about in the first place--seeing things from an alternate personality.
>
> I don't really know why I have become so passionate about this post, but it's kind of like mental illness, people don't understand a lot of reasons why people do the things they do. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong or shouldn't be posted. Maybe I take it personal because I did experiment in college--and am very glad that I did--I learned a lot and found a lot of my experiences VERY insightful--experiences I don't think I would have had with my friends otherwise. I look at it the same way I look at being Bipolar...I'm much more creative and tend to be much more passionate about life because I can see the extreme perspectives/lenses one can look through to view the world. Now THAT is intense.
>
> Both have been positive experiences in my life.
>
> Rick
>
> *if this stepped on toes, I apologize...but we really are all in this together and are desperately needing each other's help, understanding, experience, and love. Almost all of us are VERY sensitive to rejection (I feel bad when no one responds to my posts!!!!!) and feeling judged is very difficult to process (especially when we've started new meds!).
Posted by Maxime on June 24, 2003, at 17:47:53
In reply to Re: allowing discussion illicit drugs, posted by ELENI4 on June 24, 2003, at 12:12:04
Fine. Do you know what I do all day? I work with youths with drug addiction problems. If they are lucky enough to have any family who cares about them, I work with the families as well.
That is what I do. That is what I have my Phd in. That is what I have devoted my life to.I am losing "clients" all the time to drug ODs. Last week a young woman had taken some LSD and thought she could fly. She is now dead. I see young adults who are brain damaged from the amount of drugs they have taken.
So yes, I have a problem when people ask what will happen if I take this with that. There are over 17,000 drug related deaths each year in the U.S.
And I do believe that it should be out in the open. I do believe we should be discussing the problem and making it as public as possible. I don't think here is place.
If you are taking illegal drugs, then I don't think your biggest worry should be what if I take it with an MAOI or SSRI etc. I do not see the logic in that line of thinking.
Just my 2 cents.
Max
Posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 20:55:52
In reply to Re: allowing discussion illicit drugs, posted by Maxime on June 24, 2003, at 17:47:53
Hi Maxime,
You said:
"If you are taking illegal drugs, then I don't think your biggest worry should be what if I take it with an MAOI or SSRI etc. I do not see the logic in that line of thinking".
I understand what you're saying, and I think the work you're doing is a great service to the community. But if use of a prescription drug amplifies the risks already associated with street drugs, then shouldn't people be made aware? The alternative is that people on prescription meds (especially MAOIs) might think, what the hell, I'll do some X (or whatever). You work in drug counseling and crisis management -- maybe a few crises could be averted with the right advice.
Again, I'd draw the line at a post that advocated mixing prescribed and illicit drugs, but surely those that emphasize the dangers are most likely to reduce the chances of substance abuse, the goal that you're aiming for in your work.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
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