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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 43. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:34
Please help , my cousin is smoking cannabis , he is 17 years old . Nobody in the family knows that, except for me I know that this things for some people is very normal ,but Our family is not used to do that things. I dont want that his parents know that.
Please give me some advices”””
Something that I could say him ,I want to scare him saying something dangerous about drugs .
I dont know , show him pictures of people , with their life destroyed , without even can talk
Today cannabis , tomorrow can be cocaine , extasis
ect ect.
At his age everything seems to be party ,and like many teenagers he doesnt pay too much attention to the advices of the family .
Explain me how the drugs can destroy his brain
If you have any other suggestions everything is welcome.
Thank you very much
Posted by paxvox on April 24, 2003, at 20:41:17
In reply to Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Tepiaca on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:34
OK, I'll give it a stab from first-hand experience. As a teenager during the 1970's, EVERYBODY I knew smoked pot, so I did too. For quite a few years. Now, there is the fact that dope today is a lot stonger in THC content than what we had then. We never believed our parent's or the media's spin on dope, because they lied to us about so much other stuff. Personally, I believe tobacco and alcohol can be much more harmful to a teenager (or anyone for that matter) than a LITTLE pot smoking. Except for several things. Most important is this, and this is the point YOU need to prove to him. There is conclusive evidence that smoking pot DOES have effects on memory and learning ability. A teenager's brain is clearly not fully developed intellectually at that age. So in that context, I can say from MY OWN EXPERIENCE that pot IS BAD for teenager's mental development if used chronicly. It leads to mental apathy and withdrawl at a time when one's mind should be getting crammed with information salient to life.
The other aspect I would argue is that it is STILL ILLEGAL and the laws are a hell of a lot stiffer now than when I was a teen. They put you in jail now for selling a bag of pot when they would have just taken it from you 25 years ago. So, I would submit to your cousin this two-fold explanation. It is not a lie. Smoking pot habitually as a teenager WILL keep one from fully developing intellectual potential, and it WILL get you put in jail, which will affect your life forever. A third point I will touch on, but you will have to research, is that pot still has not been ruled out as being carcinogenic. When one smokes pot, the smoke is inhaled more deeply, and held longer in the lungs. Pot smoke DOES contain harmful chemicals that are highly complex in nature, many have not even been fully studied. So, your cousin *may* be at increased risk for cancer from chronic pot smoking. If your cousin doesn't want to listen to any of these arguements, I'm afraid the only way you can make him stop is to threaten to bust him to his parents or the police. He may see you as a fiend and traitor, but at 17 I don't think he sees the whole picture. If you are a responsible person, you CAN make this choice. He may hate you for awhile, as an alcoholic would if you detoxed him, but ultimately, you would be doing the right thing. I know that there are others out there who will challenge my post for scientific accuracy. Well,I challenged it myself for 30 years. I think I have been convinced. Hope this helps.
PAX
Posted by Caleb462 on April 24, 2003, at 21:37:21
In reply to Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Tepiaca on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:34
I can understand that you are concerned. However, as far as drugs go, pot is extremely safe. The only downside being that it is generally smoked, and smoking anything can be hazardous. If you want to express your concern to him, then feel free - but don't feed him a bunch of "reefer madness" type propaganda - 99% of which is bullshit. And definitely DO NOT get him in trouble by telling his parents or anything, that's a horrible, horrible idea.
Quite frankly, I really don't think it's any of your business in the first place.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 24, 2003, at 21:57:34
In reply to Re: Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by paxvox on April 24, 2003, at 20:41:17
>Smoking pot habitually as a teenager WILL keep one from fully developing intellectual potential
You say "WILL"... perhaps it's possible, but perhaps it is not. There is no way to prove this either way.
>and it WILL get you put in jail, which will affect your life forever.
MIGHT get you put in jail. If one is cautious, the likelihood is fairly low.
>A third point I will touch on, but you will have to research, is that pot still has not been ruled out as being carcinogenic. When one smokes pot, the smoke is inhaled more deeply, and held longer in the lungs.
True, but the average frequent pot smoker smokes what? 3 joints a day? That's compared to say, 15-25 cigarettes a day by tobacco smokers. And some pot smokers smoke only a few times a week, or a few times a month. Smoking pot is still dangerous, inhaling any kind of smoke is, but it certainly shouldn't be considered as dangerous as tobacco smoking - and studies have shown this.
Posted by Carlos on April 24, 2003, at 22:29:22
In reply to Re: Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Caleb462 on April 24, 2003, at 21:37:21
I don't smoke anything, but I agree with Caleb.
Posted by ace on April 24, 2003, at 22:47:37
In reply to Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Tepiaca on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:34
Posted by Caleb462 on April 25, 2003, at 0:44:01
In reply to Good idea - Canabbis is bad and can cause psychosi (nm) » Tepiaca, posted by ace on April 24, 2003, at 22:47:37
Cannabis does not cause psychosis. Like other drugs with hallucinogenic effects, it can precepitate mental illness in those genetically predisposed - but it will not and does not cause psychosis in a normal individual.
Posted by ace on April 25, 2003, at 1:01:31
In reply to Re: Good idea - Canabbis is bad and can cause psychosi, posted by Caleb462 on April 25, 2003, at 0:44:01
It can cause Paranoia and other psychotic sx in normal individuals. You are correct, psychosis has to be latent for it to cause that but many temporary effects of pot are deleterious in addition to inducing temporary psychotic sx - ie, apathy, depression.
I am adverse to all illicit substances. They are illicit for good reasons, IMO.
Ace.
Posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 1:05:44
In reply to Good idea - Canabbis is bad and can cause psychosi (nm) » Tepiaca, posted by ace on April 24, 2003, at 22:47:37
I knew this was going to create polemic . The cannabis has always been a polemic teme to argue.
I appreciate all your responses , thanks for take your time to share your opinions.
This is my conclucion
Paxvox gave me the answer that I was waiting for , thank you very much.Its was very accurately
Cable I respect your point of view but ,when you said that is not my bussines , I start to think and of course is my bussines , this is my family and I want the best for all of them .My cousin doesnt have mom and his dad is not at home most of the year . Maybe is not my bussines its his life but I love my family , and I care about them
He is a teenager he does not know what he wants,
at least no 100% . I think: today cannabis , maybe tomorrow can be cocaine or heroine or exctasis or I dont know what else he can take , all this leads you to hell at the end , with a great damage on his brain.
So I think Im gonna talk seriously with him before this gets worst . Maybe he is not going to listen me , but at least Im gonna make a try , and is this not result , I gonna have to talk to my uncle .This just about helping , not controling his life .
YOU CAN HAVE SERIOUSLY BRAIN DAMAGE ON POT COCAINE , HEROIN , ETC ETC ETC
I dont want this , nobody wants that for a person that you care
Thank you very much
If you still waht to share something ,please do it
I want to be open mind at this case because I care a lot.
Tepiaca
Posted by Caleb462 on April 25, 2003, at 2:13:32
In reply to true, but..... » Caleb462, posted by ace on April 25, 2003, at 1:01:31
Ace,
It can cause paranoia, yes. Paranoia does not = psychosis. Nor does depression and apathy = psychosis. Many drugs, both licit and illicit, can cause problems for people - particularly the illicit ones. Marijuana, however, is relatively tame in comparison to most recreational drugs. It is definitely a safer drug than alcohol. I'm not saying it is without risks, but I think a 17 year old has the capacity to make his own decisions about this subject. He may or may not regret these decisions in the future, and that is what life is all about.
Tepiaca, I understand your concern. However, let me address a few things. The idea of marijuana being a gateway drug is a myth. There is also NO evidence that marijuana causes brain damage, Here's some links -http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info14.shtml
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 25, 2003, at 10:23:41
In reply to Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Tepiaca on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:34
> Please help , my cousin is smoking cannabis , he is 17 years old .
--------------------The worst thing about pot is that it's illegal. If you want to convince him to stop, there's your main argument. Depending on where you live, consequences can be mild or severe. I've had friends get pulled over with weed on them, and the officer just dumped it out. I've also heard of some people facing stiff fines, and a blotch on their records.
The second worst thing about pot is that *because* it's illegal, you have to go to a drug dealer (sounds harsh, but true) to get it, and dealers often sell things other than pot. It's a gateway drug in that it makes it *easier* to buy other drugs, because you now have access to a dealer(s). Pot smoking in itself is really only a gateway to eating a lot of snack food.
But anyway, those are good enough reasons, especially for someone who's 17, to consider. If he's a smart enough kid, he'll monitor himself. I think the worst result of pot in my life was the inclusion of cigarettes when I didn't have any, but still feel like smoking something. Cigarettes are legal and cheap, so it's easy to smoke a crapload of them.
Posted by stjames on April 25, 2003, at 11:21:43
In reply to true, but..... » Caleb462, posted by ace on April 25, 2003, at 1:01:31
I am adverse to all illicit substances. They are illicit for good reasons, IMO.
Really ? Then alcohol should be, too.
Posted by stjames on April 25, 2003, at 11:23:53
In reply to Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion, posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 1:05:44
YOU CAN HAVE SERIOUSLY BRAIN DAMAGE ON POT COCAINE , HEROIN ,
Actually, these 3 don't cause brain damage.
That is not to say no one has problems with
them, but, if you approach this person with
untruths then why should they trust you ?
Posted by Snoozy on April 25, 2003, at 12:19:13
In reply to Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion, posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 1:05:44
I'm with the other post-ers that it's a good idea to stay away from any "reefer madness" scare tactics. Yes, there are downsides to using pot. But if you try to scare teens with a lot of stuff they know isn't true, they'll just blow you off.
When I was a teen, I had a book called "From Chocolate to Morphine" by Andrew Weil. It goes through every drug under the sun, and it tells you what the negatives of each are. But it's done in a way that doesn't say all drugs are evil or you're funding terrorists or any other kind of rhetoric. I did believe the negatives about drugs that I read in this book, and it did have an effect on my decisions.
You might want to see if this book is still around. I just hope it isn't in an antiquarian bookshop. lol
Good luck with your cousin.
> I knew this was going to create polemic . The cannabis has always been a polemic teme to argue.
> I appreciate all your responses , thanks for take your time to share your opinions.
> This is my conclucion
> Paxvox gave me the answer that I was waiting for , thank you very much.Its was very accurately
> Cable I respect your point of view but ,when you said that is not my bussines , I start to think and of course is my bussines , this is my family and I want the best for all of them .My cousin doesnt have mom and his dad is not at home most of the year . Maybe is not my bussines its his life but I love my family , and I care about them
> He is a teenager he does not know what he wants,
> at least no 100% . I think: today cannabis , maybe tomorrow can be cocaine or heroine or exctasis or I dont know what else he can take , all this leads you to hell at the end , with a great damage on his brain.
> So I think Im gonna talk seriously with him before this gets worst . Maybe he is not going to listen me , but at least Im gonna make a try , and is this not result , I gonna have to talk to my uncle .This just about helping , not controling his life .
> YOU CAN HAVE SERIOUSLY BRAIN DAMAGE ON POT COCAINE , HEROIN , ETC ETC ETC
> I dont want this , nobody wants that for a person that you care
> Thank you very much
> If you still waht to share something ,please do it
> I want to be open mind at this case because I care a lot.
> Tepiaca
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on April 25, 2003, at 13:26:41
In reply to Re: Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion » Tepiaca, posted by Snoozy on April 25, 2003, at 12:19:13
The best mid-level book on psychopharmacology I've found... "A Primer of Drug Action: A Concise, Non-Technical Guide to the Actions, Uses, and Side Effecte of Psychoactive Drugs"
Informative and thorough.
Posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 15:12:19
In reply to Re: Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion, posted by stjames on April 25, 2003, at 11:23:53
mmm , I dont think so , Im dont know about pot causing brain damage , but I know people who is now on a wheelchair due to the cocaine .
Posted by paxvox on April 25, 2003, at 15:39:07
In reply to Re: Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by Caleb462 on April 24, 2003, at 21:57:34
I agree pot isn't as harmful to smoke as tobacco, and if you REALLY read my post carefully, you would have seen that in my preamble." Not as dangerous", well, I guess it's not as dangerous to jump off a 20 foot roof than a 40 foot one,(i.e. its's STILL dangerous, regardless of the severity, so why do any unnecessary dangerous thing to your body just for thrills?) so I assume this is the logic you are applying here.I think I have enough first-hand experience to say what pot does and does not do. Sure, you can play the "mays" and "mights" all you want. If I shoot a bullet at my head I MIGHT miss, however, it's generally a good thing NOT to do in the first place. I would discourage ANY young person from using ANY recreational drug, including alcohol. I think you are naive to say that pot (smoked or eaten) doesn't affect mental development, you have not looked at the research too closely. I stand by my statements.
PAX
Posted by Questionmark on April 25, 2003, at 21:19:26
In reply to Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion, posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 1:05:44
i'm not saying cannabis is harmless-- it's not. But when you lump cannabis in the same group with things like cocaine and heroin, you do one of two things: you make young users either think that you don't know anything about pot and that you dont know what youre talking about (and so they'll be even less inclined to listen to you when it comes to drugs)... or, after seeing how fairly benign marijuana is, they think that many other drugs must be fairly benign as well-- since they've been told so many times that marijuana is essentially a drug just like cocaine and what not-- and THAT in my opinion is the biggest factor in pot being a so-called "gateway drug."
Also, be careful how you deal with this. If you rat on your brother (or cousin?) and if he gets in a great deal of trouble, this may just anger him and push him away from the family even further.. and he may resort to even more drug use.
Finally, i don't even like pot that much anymore, i really don't, but i'm convinced that SSRIs, benzodiazepines, etc. etc. and even alcohol can be considerably worse for a person than cannabis, though it depends. Good luck in your decision and with the situation.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 26, 2003, at 0:12:23
In reply to Re: Help””” I want my cousin to stop smoking canabbis, posted by paxvox on April 25, 2003, at 15:39:07
> I agree pot isn't as harmful to smoke as tobacco, and if you REALLY read my post carefully, you would have seen that in my preamble." Not as dangerous", well, I guess it's not as dangerous to jump off a 20 foot roof than a 40 foot one,(i.e. its's STILL dangerous, regardless of the severity, so why do any unnecessary dangerous thing to your body just for thrills?) so I assume this is the logic you are applying here.
Uh... I never said pot smoke wasn't dangerous. I said it was not as dangerous as tobacco smoke, that was all intented to show.
>I think I have enough first-hand experience to say what pot does and does not do. Sure, you can play the "mays" and "mights" all you want. If I shoot a bullet at my head I MIGHT miss, however, it's generally a good thing NOT to do in the first place. I would discourage ANY young person from using ANY recreational drug, including alcohol. I think you are naive to say that pot (smoked or eaten) doesn't affect mental development, you have not looked at the research too closely. I stand by my statements.
>I never said pot doesn't effect mental development. I said it's possible, saying that it WILL is ridiculous because it's not proven.
I am all for conveying the risks of cannabis, but there are always two sides - and the other side should be shown as well.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 26, 2003, at 0:19:55
In reply to Re: Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion » stjames, posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 15:12:19
> mmm , I dont think so , Im dont know about pot causing brain damage , but I know people who is now on a wheelchair due to the cocaine .
Chronic use of cocaine can cause brain damage - though it's likely minor in most cases, certainly not all.
Heroin, on the other hand, is completely harmless. Even chronic use will not damage the body or mind in any way.
And no good research suggests that pot causes brain damage.
Posted by Okpolosi on April 26, 2003, at 10:33:33
In reply to true, but..... » Caleb462, posted by ace on April 25, 2003, at 1:01:31
> It can cause Paranoia and other psychotic sx in normal individuals. You are correct, psychosis has to be latent for it to cause that but many temporary effects of pot are deleterious in addition to inducing temporary psychotic sx - ie, apathy, depression.
>
> I am adverse to all illicit substances. They are illicit for good reasons, IMO.
>
>
> Ace.Then why are tabacco and alcohol NOT illicit??? These are 2 of the worst DRUGS!!!!
Posted by Okpolosi on April 26, 2003, at 10:39:18
In reply to Read this before you decide. » Tepiaca, posted by Questionmark on April 25, 2003, at 21:19:26
> i'm not saying cannabis is harmless-- it's not. But when you lump cannabis in the same group with things like cocaine and heroin, you do one of two things: you make young users either think that you don't know anything about pot and that you dont know what youre talking about (and so they'll be even less inclined to listen to you when it comes to drugs)... or, after seeing how fairly benign marijuana is, they think that many other drugs must be fairly benign as well-- since they've been told so many times that marijuana is essentially a drug just like cocaine and what not-- and THAT in my opinion is the biggest factor in pot being a so-called "gateway drug."
> Also, be careful how you deal with this. If you rat on your brother (or cousin?) and if he gets in a great deal of trouble, this may just anger him and push him away from the family even further.. and he may resort to even more drug use.
> Finally, i don't even like pot that much anymore, i really don't, but i'm convinced that SSRIs, benzodiazepines, etc. etc. and even alcohol can be considerably worse for a person than cannabis, though it depends. Good luck in your decision and with the situation.I couldn't have said it better!!!! YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY ON THIS ONE.
Posted by Okpolosi on April 26, 2003, at 11:08:31
In reply to Re: true, but....., posted by Okpolosi on April 26, 2003, at 10:33:33
> > It can cause Paranoia and other psychotic sx in normal individuals. You are correct, psychosis has to be latent for it to cause that but many temporary effects of pot are deleterious in addition to inducing temporary psychotic sx - ie, apathy, depression.
> >
> > I am adverse to all illicit substances. They are illicit for good reasons, IMO.
> >
> >
> > Ace.
>
> Then why are tabacco and alcohol NOT illicit??? These are 2 of the worst DRUGS!!!!This is not a personal jab at you, Ace, Just a rehtorical question I have for the powers that be!!! I can NOT understand the HYPOCRACY involved here....just because Tabacco and Alcohol have big money lobbies they are allowed to pollute our youth with their poisons, which should all be lumped together with cocaine, morphine, heroin, speed, meth, ect.
The U.S. is now the country with the LARGEST PERCENTAGE of it's population behind bars!!!! If we took all the people out who are in jail for drugs and put them into drug treatment programs where they belong, there would be enough room in jail for all the CRIMINALS.
Then if you go one step further and legalize Pot and TAX it and REGULATE it like you do for tabacco and alcohol, you could PAY for all those drug treatment programs to get these people OFF of these terrible drugs.
One last point...HEMP can be used to make PAPER (and rope and clothes and a number of other useful products)...so instead of whacking down all our trees, we could cultivate hemp (which would give you a BIG headache if you tried to smoke it, and you WOULD NOT get high either) to produce the mountains of paper we use and abuse every day and SAVE THE TREES!!!!
Posted by stjames on April 26, 2003, at 16:49:12
In reply to Re: Thanks all you guys . This is my conclucion » stjames, posted by Tepiaca on April 25, 2003, at 15:12:19
> mmm , I dont think so , Im dont know about pot causing brain damage , but I know people who is now on a wheelchair due to the cocaine .
How did cocaine (by being toxic) do this ?
Posted by Willow on April 27, 2003, at 11:37:25
In reply to Ace and Tepiaca, posted by Caleb462 on April 25, 2003, at 2:13:32
> Ace,
> It can cause paranoia, yes. Paranoia does not = psychosis. Nor does depression and apathy = psychosis. Many drugs, both licit and illicit, can cause problems for people - particularly the illicit ones. Marijuana, however, is relatively tame in comparison to most recreational drugs. It is definitely a safer drug than alcohol. I'm not saying it is without risks, but I think a 17 year old has the capacity to make his own decisions about this subject. He may or may not regret these decisions in the future, and that is what life is all about.
Over the years this topic has come up numerous times on the board. The argument that it is safer than alcohol as a "recreational" drug is almost always pointed out. This is in my opinion like arguing which is a better pet, a cat or a dog.I've gone to my psychologist's complaining of symptoms, which I refer to as my psychotic episodes. He has stated that they are technically mixed episodes of severe anxiety and depression. We've come to the agreement that I will refer to them as my psycotic espisodes; though, technically speaking they are not. For myself, I have explained that they seem very similiar to my father's "psychotic" episodes that he has had as a result of his illness, schizophrenia.
I've always been aware of his heightened anxiety during these "breaks" but not really knowing how crappy it feels. I can't imagine anything worse than my severe and prolonged anxiety attacks which make me paranoid of the strangest things, but then I'm sure my father would say the same for his illness.
He claims his schizophrenia was brought on by bad drugs, which many people from his age with the illness claim. The bad drug which he refers to is "pot." And he was an adult when the illness surfaced, in his mid 30's.
My point is that no matter your age having concerned social supports is never bad. Pot or booze, either one can cause damage. (For those on this board advocating the use of either, I would argue that they may be prime examples of reasons against.) Paranoia versus psychosis, hangover versus apathy? If I had to choose, I would prefer a life with healthy social relationships which I'm able to function at a level that supports my own self worth, doesn't demean it.
Weeping Willow
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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