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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by not exactly on April 9, 2003, at 19:11:36
In reply to Re: life after Mirapex - not exactly » not exactly, posted by Stan on April 9, 2003, at 13:52:35
Stan,
Within days of stopping the Neurontin, I felt my intellect come back. I hadn't realized just how much mental impairment I was suffering until it went away. Thank God it was reversable! Now I can once again do mental arithmetic, picture intricate objects in my mind, remember details, do complex reasoning, think creatively, and instantly come up with witty replies during conversation. My brain works as well as I remember it had back when I was a straight-A grad student, and when I was a software project leader.
Unfortunately, stopping the Neurontin also caused the return of anxiety. Not that I had been totally anxiety-free while on the Neurontin, but it became much worse without it. I was tempted to resume the Neurontin just to help with the anxiety, but I REALLY didn't want to return to that state of impaired intellect. So, since I already had a Rx for Klonopin (p.r.n. for occasional periods of debilitating anxiety), I tried taking small doses (1 mg/day or less) of that instead.
First of all, the Klonopin helped with the anxiety in a much more effective way than the Neurontin ever had. No more introverting social anxiety, no more terrifying acrophobia (an unexpected and wonderful benefit, since mountaineering is one of my favorite hobbies!), no more paralyzing non-specific background anxiety. It did cause some sedation/drowsiness/hypersomnia for the first few days, but once I got used to it, these side effects completely disappeared. Now it almost feels like a stimulant, because I feel I'm no longer inhibited by my nameless fears. But I'm not taking so much that it's supressing reasonable caution and respect for real danger - I'm still a safe driver and don't act rashly. In short, I'm now confident and functional.
Secondly, the Klonopin did NOT have the inellect-dulling effects that the Neurontin did. I did not do enough careful testing with & without to be able to claim that there is ZERO impairment, but if there's any dulling at all, it's not really noticable. And the ability to think and act without the constant nagging anxiety more than makes up for any minimal dulling. I would say that I'm noticing absolutely NO side effects at this point.
I'm not worried about becoming a benzo addict. This is a very low dosage, I have no desire to escalate the dosage, and I certainly don't intend to discontinue it abruptly. The half-life is long enough so I don't have to worry about falling apart if I accidentallty miss a dose. Since it appears to be effectively solving a significant chronic problem, I wouldn't really mind if I had to take it for the rest of my life. Does a diabetic worry that he's "addicted" to insulin? Klonopin is cheap and benign insurance.
As always, the YMMV disclaimer applies. I'm sure there are folks who think that Klonopin causes cognitive impairment, and Neurontin doesn't.
- Bob
Posted by Stan on April 9, 2003, at 22:08:11
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs. Neurontin » Stan, posted by not exactly on April 9, 2003, at 19:11:36
Posted by Viridis on April 10, 2003, at 0:43:21
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs. Neurontin » Stan, posted by not exactly on April 9, 2003, at 19:11:36
I also find that Klonopin (1 mg/day) helps me think more clearly. Before using it, anxiety interfered tremendously with my cognitive processes and sleep, and induced severe depression on a regular basis. When I started it, I had a week or two of mild sedation etc., then the side effects totally of K disappeared and only the benefits have remained.
I take Neurontin as well (1200 mg/day) and really don't think it does much at all (for me -- YMMV etc.). The first couple of times I took it I experienced a pleasant, "floaty" high, and since then I've felt nothing. My pdoc suggests I stay on it because it may add "background" stability, but honestly, I don't think it has any effect any more, good or bad. Klonopin is definitely the driving force, and for me is a excellent med, with no negatives after almost 2 yrs of use at the same dose.
Posted by Hattree on April 10, 2003, at 13:51:40
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs. Neurontin » not exactly, posted by Viridis on April 10, 2003, at 0:43:21
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 14:09:05
In reply to Please keep the Strattera updates coming! (nm), posted by Hattree on April 10, 2003, at 13:51:40
Posted by Lexxey on April 10, 2003, at 15:26:10
In reply to Re: Please keep the Strattera updates coming! (nm), posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 14:09:05
OK...I have an update, of sorts....
I'm in my 11th day at 80mg [40 at 8am, 40 at 4[pm]and this was after 2 weeks on 40mg and all I notice is that I'm sleeping better and still having fun, vivid dreams.
I don't feel any ADHD relief. I haven't been getting much done and I have been all **too hungry**, and I have been as uncoordinated as ever. I was hoping this would help the physical coordination as Ritalin did for the 19 years I took it. I know what it feels like to have my brain work right and this isn't it yet!!!
I just can't get into gear and do some jobs I need to do, and actually, usually enjoy...I just put them off apathetically...[if that's a word]...I mean with apathy....blah-ness. Don't give ahoot!!!
I want some kind of revelation or motivation or something to let me know this is kicking in and I'm not wasting my time.
I have a question....
The doc gave me some 60mg pills in case I wanted to take one of those in the am instead of 40mg. I weigh 150#. Do yall think I should up my am dose to 60mg? I'm putting it to a vote!!! See how bored I am!
I just sat here for 4 hours and read everything I could on this drug and how dopamine affects ADHD and I'm not sure much has sunk in.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 15:32:45
In reply to Strattera update/Impatient!, posted by Lexxey on April 10, 2003, at 15:26:10
Hi Lexy
Here is a link to dosage.
http://www.johnswank.com/strattera_dosing_chart.htm
Wish this was going better for the both of us. If I didn't have my adderall xr, I'd really be in trouble.
Posted by Lexxey on April 10, 2003, at 15:51:28
In reply to Re: Strattera update/Impatient! » Lexxey, posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 15:32:45
that chart answers my question without having to figure how much I weigh in kg.
Now...I just wondered if some well informed folks here would know if the kava kava I have been taking at night to help me sleep...[only for 7 days now]....could it be interferring with the Strattera?
They both work on dopamine somehow but since I don't know what the word "reuptake" means I can't understand what it does to the dopamine.
I have a bunch of ritalin I could be taking but I don't want it to interfere with the effects of the Strattera just incase it starts working....besides I don't want it to affect my blood pressure any more either.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 16:01:47
In reply to Re: thanks/new comment, posted by Lexxey on April 10, 2003, at 15:51:28
I just did a cut and paste from strattera site.
Strattera is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
I am not sure either, the site is www.strattera.com
I don't think I would take kava, kava with the sterrata, you could be over amping your receptors in your brain. For example too much serotonin can actually burn out the serotonin receptors in your brain, which can lead to you being quite sad. I haven't read up on kava kava in a long time, but they both do setative things.
Posted by PuraVida on April 10, 2003, at 17:24:38
In reply to Re: thanks/new comment, posted by Lexxey on April 10, 2003, at 15:51:28
Lexxy -
I wouldn'take tha Kava Kava - have heard negative things about it esp w/ taking pych drugs. Have you called your docter? And, remind me why you are trying Straterra?
PV
> Now...I just wondered if some well informed folks here would know if the kava kava I have been taking at night to help me sleep...[only for 7 days now]....could it be interferring with the Strattera?
>
> They both work on dopamine somehow but since I don't know what the word "reuptake" means I can't understand what it does to the dopamine.
>
> I have a bunch of ritalin I could be taking but I don't want it to interfere with the effects of the Strattera just incase it starts working....besides I don't want it to affect my blood pressure any more either.
Posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 10, 2003, at 17:33:28
In reply to Re: Strattera update/Impatient! » Lexxey, posted by blondegirl47 on April 10, 2003, at 15:32:45
hmmm, but they do sell the 80mg dose...I tried the 40mg for 2 weeks...the first few days were interesting....next few days were very good but after 6 days or so I did feel right. I was just loosing interest in things in general...just didn't care type additude...which is way not me... the 40 was too much for me (or bad side affects?) and I was dropped down to 18....18 felt fine but by late afternoon I was somewhat my old self...I am now at 25 but...not sure...
How about going to a lower dose, Lexxey
Posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 11, 2003, at 1:57:30
In reply to Please keep the Strattera updates coming! (nm), posted by Hattree on April 10, 2003, at 13:51:40
First, I hope I didn't stop the Straterra posting traffic. Being my first posting, I was the last posting of the day at 5:30 on this topic. It felt like I said something wrong. I have been reading only, sort of like " outside, looking in" ...actually, re-reading the posting, I realized that I was not making much sense.
My Straterra History:
I started taking 40mg of Straterra in the second week of February for my ADHD. The first 2 days I was a bit out of it....loss of appetite(like nothing), dry mouth, lighthead-ness. The next several days were excellent, I was completing tasks/projects at home and work. I finished things that I started instead of getting sidetrack and off doing something-else. I stopped daydreaming in the middle of normal conversation. I was losing weight...yea!! Then about the 8th/9th day, I noticed that I had stop doing any of my million hobbies, clothes weren't washed ...things were starting to get neglected. I felt...I really didn't feel, I just didn't care and I stopped losing weight. My "something's wrong" control in my head kicked in (about day 13). Called my doc. I was told to stopped the 40mg. With determination, we restarted me with 18mg, thinking that 40mg starting was too much for me. Took the 18mg for about 2 and a half weeks. Everything was going good (still had the dry mouth) but it felt like it was wearing off by afternoon. I started on 25mg after that. I have been on 25mg for almost a month now. I take 25mg of Straterra at 6am when I wake up.Presently:
Like clockwork, I wake up about this time (about 12:30 to 1). Boom, wide awake. This started happening this pass week. I hope it goes away. I do notice that it last towards the evening (but not quite...my impulse shopping/spending kicks in among other things). With a stressful day at work, the Starterra feels like it last maybe to a bit after noon then I notice some of my "habits" creeping back. I am thinking about asking for two 10mg a day, one in the morning and one for mid afternoon. I notice I get grumpy when my blood sugar gets low, different from my past "really hostile crankness" when this happens. Also occasionally, I just get the munchie and just want to eat.Hope everyone is doing well on their Starterra.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 7:32:42
In reply to Strattera update, posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 11, 2003, at 1:57:30
Hi, oops...trythatbutton, I am on 60 mg of strettera. Come to think of it, I did feel better when I was on 18mg. I am having trouble focusing on things I need to do at work. Maybe I will call my pdoc today. The thing I like about it is that I sleep like a rock for about 4 or 5 hours. I wake once or twice, but I am used to that. I have the hungry's too, but I am battling that. I also noticed I have the shakes more.
Duty calls, later.
Posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 8:17:42
In reply to Re: thanks/new comment » Lexxey, posted by PuraVida on April 10, 2003, at 17:24:38
I take Strattera cuz I've been ADHD for 59 years...pretty good reason, right?
I just want it to work....but after reading a whole bunch of articles on how it works compared to Ritalin that I copied to a word file and printed [cuz the print was too small for an old lady], I may be dissappointed that it doesn't help motor control like Ritalin does.
Apparently Ritalin has a greater affect on the dopamine and that helps motor control. I've been spastic all my life and get tired of running into things and dropping stuff all the time.
Posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 8:25:39
In reply to Re: Strattera update/Impatient!, posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 10, 2003, at 17:33:28
I feel fine ...I just don't feel any relief of the ADHD symptoms. If I go to a lower dose it will just take longer to get to the point where an effective dose will occur.
This stuff doesn't really do anything much until you take the effective dose ...which is 80+mg for adults and it only happens after a few weeks at that dosage accg to the all the trials and what folks have said on this forum and others.
Actually I think I might be feeling a bit of improvement in my executive functioning....we'll see....
I really, really have a positive outlook and want it to work. I could always tell when my ritalin took effect...almost to the minute...sudddenly my head wasn't buzzing with drifting thoughts but could organize a pattern that I could function with.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 8:36:01
In reply to Re: Strattera update/Impatient!, posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 8:25:39
Does strattera give you the shakes. Do you get hungry from it?
Posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 11, 2003, at 11:52:56
In reply to Re: Strattera update » oops...trythatbutton, posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 7:32:42
I only notice the shakes if I forget to eat or decide to skip eating which causes my blood sugar to drop. Self medicating with a few cups of strong coffee in the morning works wonders. I can actually sleep after drink coffee at nights.
I do get dull headaches occasionally. I never had headaches before taking the Straterra
Posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 12:54:32
In reply to Re: Strattera update, posted by oops...trythatbutton on April 11, 2003, at 11:52:56
See if those headaches take place after drinking coffee. I sent the post on the throbbing feeling about an hour after my first dose and I had decided that it's due to coffee and strattera. It's not recommended but I'm not ready to give up my one cup in the am....it just smells like morning.
I have always been able to sleep on coffee and even ritalin...lots of ADHD folks can.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 13:00:36
In reply to Re: Strattera headaches and coffee, posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 12:54:32
I don't drink coffee, but once in a while I will drink a diet dew. I will notice if I get a headache after. I have noticed my heart seems to race from time to time. thanks for your post :)
Posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 13:50:30
In reply to Re: Strattera headaches and coffee » Lexxey, posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 13:00:36
The heart racing is one of the usual side effects and is suppose to subside after a while.
Posted by blondegirl47 on April 11, 2003, at 13:52:42
In reply to Re: Strattera headaches and coffee, posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 13:50:30
Thanks, Lexxy. :)
Posted by BrettMan on April 11, 2003, at 17:49:17
In reply to Straterra approval., posted by scoper on December 28, 2002, at 2:19:34
I started about 11 days ago. For the first 3-4 days I used it in conjunction with Dexedrine in order to "wing" myself off the stimulant.
My first week has been OK. I notice that I get very hungry now, all the time. I think because I get bored so I just eat. I'm thin anyway so its not that big a deal. I feel I have lost some of the motivation I used to get with the Dexedrine. I still find myself yawning alot and a bit sleepy. That is the bad part because when I feel that way I don't feel like doing much and don't tend to stay on task. I'm thinking that it may also be because I have not been exercising regularly. So I want to start exercising and see how it goes after that. I do get the dry mouth on occasion.
Since many people here have recommended staying on it for at least a month before giving up I will do the same.
Another good part is that I with Dexedrine I almost get too caught up in the things that I do. With Straerra I feel more like myself. With Dexedrine I tended to over work and forget about doing the things that make me happy. Sometime I found it hard to sit still and do nothing. Although strange enough I was able to meditate very well while taking Dexedrine. If I go back on someday I will reduce the amount I take.
Brett
Posted by Hattree on April 11, 2003, at 18:53:41
In reply to Straterra Update, posted by BrettMan on April 11, 2003, at 17:49:17
I definitely know that Dex hyperfocus. I can do one thing at a time really well, but transitions are still hard and I lose my keys just as often. I can sit still on it though (airplanes are hell for me without a stimulant).
I started Strattera and then decided to give it a rest because giving up Dexedrine was more than I bargained for, and I wanted to know what was causing what. Turns out the Strattera was not what was making me ravenous. I've been exercising regularly but too weeks later I'm still low-energy and extremely unmovitated. Nice to be able to sleep, though.
I'm waiting till I'm sure I'm past the Dex withdrawal to see whats up. Most people here say getting off stimulants isn't a big deal but its a bear for me, and I can't taper.
Hence, I am glued to the Strattera posts, praying for something that will help my ADD without making me strung out.
> I started about 11 days ago. For the first 3-4 days I used it in conjunction with Dexedrine in order to "wing" myself off the stimulant.
>
> My first week has been OK. I notice that I get very hungry now, all the time. I think because I get bored so I just eat. I'm thin anyway so its not that big a deal. I feel I have lost some of the motivation I used to get with the Dexedrine. I still find myself yawning alot and a bit sleepy. That is the bad part because when I feel that way I don't feel like doing much and don't tend to stay on task. I'm thinking that it may also be because I have not been exercising regularly. So I want to start exercising and see how it goes after that. I do get the dry mouth on occasion.
>
> Since many people here have recommended staying on it for at least a month before giving up I will do the same.
>
> Another good part is that I with Dexedrine I almost get too caught up in the things that I do. With Straerra I feel more like myself. With Dexedrine I tended to over work and forget about doing the things that make me happy. Sometime I found it hard to sit still and do nothing. Although strange enough I was able to meditate very well while taking Dexedrine. If I go back on someday I will reduce the amount I take.
>
> Brett
Posted by Hattree on April 11, 2003, at 18:54:50
In reply to Re: Strattera headaches and coffee, posted by Lexxey on April 11, 2003, at 13:50:30
Lexxey,
How's it going with your ADD symptoms?
Thanks
Posted by carlyb on April 11, 2003, at 20:39:54
In reply to Please keep the Strattera updates coming! (nm), posted by Hattree on April 10, 2003, at 13:51:40
i took strattera for 1 month while i weaned myself of serzone i felt alright on about 20 mg when i went up to 40 mg it made my head feel tight and i could barely sleep at night. i stopped taking it, think i'll try 5 htp an amino acid that is supposed to be good for depression good luch carly
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