![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 3397 to 3421 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by lovemybabies on March 6, 2003, at 17:10:17
In reply to Re: starting effexor tommorow, posted by natural on March 6, 2003, at 16:57:56
Hang in there. I just increased my doseage today. From 75mg to 150mg to help with anxiety. I felt pretty good today, except for a return of the 'spacey' feeling. I had a friend over and she probably thought I was drunk or stoned or something. :) I'm a little concerned about upping the doseage but my Doc. is convinced it will help the anxiety. I'll give it a try and reduce it if I'm too wigged-out. In a bizarre way, these side-effects are kind of fun...like, 'Oh-my legs are twitching again...COOL.' And I am so happy to report I can deal with my kids/husband/daily stressors SO WELL now. It's like a new life; I actually woke my kids up for school by SINGING to them...I just felt so GOOD this morning. Not manic, just good. It's a day at a time, but so far I'm sticking with this med.
Posted by lovemybabies on March 6, 2003, at 17:13:51
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » millie, posted by KrissyP on March 5, 2003, at 13:51:26
I'm curious--when does the weight GAIN happen on Effexor. I've been on it for six weeks and actually lost six pounds in two weeks due to nausea and anorexia. I'm thin to begin with and now just look gross. My appetite is back but I haven't noticed any abnormal weight gain. Does this happen later? Is it due to increased appetite, water-retention, just feeling good and eating more? I upped my doseage today and am dreading the anorexia.
Thanks for your input.
Posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 20:04:18
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » KrissyP, posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 16:37:22
Hey there:-)
Thank you for elaborating. First, how long have you been on Effexor-XR???
I can tell you I have tried all of the SSRI's, including Luvox, and Effexor-XR is the ONLY one I do not gain a lot of weight on. Now, I also take usually 100mg but sometimes 200mg of Seroquel at night and by morning, I am BLOATED. I know that Seroquel is adding to my retaining water AND deficatley adds to my weight problem, so I am trying to get by on only 100mg along with the Lamicatl, so far 25 mg, and the 2mg of Klonopin. I hope you are taking care of yourself with Diabetes, it sounds like you are:-) I try to remember we're all dealt different cards in life, so to speak.
Between the Paxil and having a baby, I understand your frustration concerning the excess weight. I've never had a baby, but I would suggest that you give the Effexor some time-like I said how long have you been on it sice you switched from Paxil? And, how is your appetite on it? Have you noticed ANY weight loss, decreased hunger, etc. on Effexor?
I want to hear from you again,please,
Kristen:-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'd be happy to elaborate! I have diabetes, and I use the insulin pump. This alone is a major contributing factor to my depression, as well as my weight struggles, but it's a viscious cycle regardless. I've always struggled with 15-30lbs, since my teens, but it wasn't until my mid-twenties that the weight started piling on. Around the same time, I started taking Paxil, which helped my depression a great deal, but made my struggle with the pounds even more difficult. Then I had my first baby ... and I haven't seen that old body that I complained about for all those years since. He is now 7 mos. and I feel like I'm still gaining weight, even all these months after the pregnancy. My doctor switched me from the Paxil to Effexor XL, with hopes that it would help with the weight gain, but it hasn't. And here I am today, needing to loose about 65lbs! Any advice?
Posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 20:06:54
In reply to Re: starting effexor tommorow, posted by natural on March 6, 2003, at 16:57:56
"i am just glad the hope that i had lost the previous 6 months is back with me..."------------------------I am too:-)
All the best,
Kristen
first off thank you for your input and responses....with this whole anixiety issue i got going i need to be sure about almost everything and this board has helped me alot...so thank you....
and yes iam taking it for anxiety and panic attacks and stuff....my it worked well for me today..i felt pretty nautious all day and without this board that would have concerned me alot throughout the day..i didnt notice any other side effects but thats prolly cause my heads already in another place latey...i have been taking adavan as needed latley and didnt have the need to take it today (i wouldnt let myself take it).....i also found a way to stabalise at least the panic attacks last night and with this pill i think/hope its only a matter of time before i feel better....iam just glad the hope that i had lost the previous 6 months is back with me...
Posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 20:14:59
In reply to Re: starting effexor tommorow, posted by lovemybabies on March 6, 2003, at 17:10:17
Hi, can I add something? Isn't the side effect of Effexor-"fun"? Like you say? I feel that way too-but I'm almost too manic, as it does increase mania in bipolar patients. I remember singing "Raindrops on Roses" when I was in the psych ward years back because I was so manic-I drove my roomate nuts. Boy was it fun though.
Does increasing the dosage of Effexor help more with the anxiety than a low dose??? Does anyone know?
Thanks,
Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Hang in there. I just increased my doseage today. From 75mg to 150mg to help with anxiety. I felt pretty good today, except for a return of the 'spacey' feeling. I had a friend over and she probably thought I was drunk or stoned or something. :) I'm a little concerned about upping the doseage but my Doc. is convinced it will help the anxiety. I'll give it a try and reduce it if I'm too wigged-out. In a bizarre way, these side-effects are kind of fun...like, 'Oh-my legs are twitching again...COOL.' And I am so happy to report I can deal with my kids/husband/daily stressors SO WELL now. It's like a new life; I actually woke my kids up for school by SINGING to them...I just felt so GOOD this morning. Not manic, just good. It's a day at a time, but so far I'm sticking with this med.
Posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 20:36:35
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help!, posted by lovemybabies on March 6, 2003, at 17:13:51
It's funny- seems to be as much a mystery to you and me as it is to our doctors. I was switched to Effexor XL from Paxil because I was gaining weight, and it hasn't made a difference. But in your case, you WANT to gain and can't! I think it depends on the person, their eating habits/issues, and their metabolism. But that's just my opinion.
Posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 20:48:08
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » Tina P, posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 20:04:18
Thanks for your concern. I try to take care of my diabetes, but it'd hard, especially with depression. I've been on the Effexor XL for a few months now, and haven't noticed much difference in the weight gain/hunger situation. It was a problem on the Paxil, and it's a problem now. I know my eating issues lie deeper than my antidepressants, and I have to address them separately. But in the meantime, it would be nice to have meds that help rather than hurt the situation. My doctor felt that Effexor would help me lose weight, or at least stop gaining. Obviously she was wrong. I've also relied too often on appetite suppresants in the past,and I'm trying to avoid them now. I just find that they get me going, but I gradually build up a tolerance to them and end up just continuing to take them because I'm too afraid not to. So I've been Phentermine-free for the same few months that I've been on the Effexor, which certainly isn't helping matters when it comes to losing weight!
Posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 21:47:27
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help!, posted by lovemybabies on March 6, 2003, at 17:13:51
Hi, When I have always been on Effexor- I didn't gain weight. If any, about 6 Lbs. When I first started it too-I lost weight because I wasn't hungry and the nausea too. It's different with different people-I guess. Prozac made me gain-simply because I was feeling well-but I gained a whopping 80 Lbs. What is your dosage of Effexor, may I ask?
Try not to worry about it until it does, or doesn't happen, but I understand what you are saying. All the best,
Kristen:-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm curious--when does the weight GAIN happen on Effexor. I've been on it for six weeks and actually lost six pounds in two weeks due to nausea and anorexia. I'm thin to begin with and now just look gross. My appetite is back but I haven't noticed any abnormal weight gain. Does this happen later? Is it due to increased appetite, water-retention, just feeling good and eating more? I upped my doseage today and am dreading the anorexia.
Thanks for your input.
Posted by KrissyP on March 7, 2003, at 1:01:38
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » lovemybabies, posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 20:36:35
Hi Tina, Please consider yourself a little lucky. I need to LOSE weight. I understand your concern though-I really do:-)
I agree with lovemybabies, that it depends on the person, their eating habits/issues, and their metabolism- just my opinion too.
Hang in there:-)
Kristen------------------------------------------It's funny- seems to be as much a mystery to you and me as it is to our doctors. I was switched to Effexor XL from Paxil because I was gaining weight, and it hasn't made a difference. But in your case, you WANT to gain and can't! I think it depends on the person, their eating habits/issues, and their metabolism. But that's just my opinion.
Posted by KrissyP on March 7, 2003, at 1:08:39
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » KrissyP, posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 20:48:08
Hi again Tina,
You are very welcome:-)
Depression can be tough-hang in there. I also know my eating issues lie deeper than my antidepressants, and I have to address them separately too, somehow. I have gone to OA and it helped, but soon it got a little monotonous and I lost interest. My loss now I think. My weight goes up and down-up and down. :-(
I am glad to hear that you are trying to avoid the MANY appetite suppressants-I have seen and I know others have heard of people dying on these. NOT TO SCARE YOU BY ANY MEANS-just a note.
Please stay safe and keep us posted when you can.
:-)Best of luck,
Kristen------------------------------------------
> Thanks for your concern. I try to take care of my diabetes, but it'd hard, especially with depression. I've been on the Effexor XL for a few months now, and haven't noticed much difference in the weight gain/hunger situation. It was a problem on the Paxil, and it's a problem now. I know my eating issues lie deeper than my antidepressants, and I have to address them separately. But in the meantime, it would be nice to have meds that help rather than hurt the situation. My doctor felt that Effexor would help me lose weight, or at least stop gaining. Obviously she was wrong. I've also relied too often on appetite suppresants in the past,and I'm trying to avoid them now. I just find that they get me going, but I gradually build up a tolerance to them and end up just continuing to take them because I'm too afraid not to. So I've been Phentermine-free for the same few months that I've been on the Effexor, which certainly isn't helping matters when it comes to losing weight!
>
Posted by KrissyP on March 7, 2003, at 2:06:45
In reply to starting effexor tommorow, posted by natural on March 6, 2003, at 0:51:25
Hi, what is your diagnosis? Did the Prozac help at all? Are you still getting panic attacks?
Hope to help, reply please:-)
Kristen
-------------------------------------------------
> k....i have been having bad panic attacks lately...and have ended up in the er because of them....my doctors have out me in therapy and the doctor whos works this therapy has perscribed this effexor.....is this the right thing for me??....
>
> (side note: i have taken remeron 30mgs for a few months after my first attack and didnt have anymore...but then i started on fluvox(amine) as well and a day or two after these attacks started...coincidance??)
>
> thank you for any help
Posted by lovemybabies on March 7, 2003, at 6:41:46
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » lovemybabies, posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 21:47:27
Hi,
I just increased to 150mg yesterday. So far, no nausea but the lightheadedness is back. My doc. said it helps better w/anxiety at higher doses.
Posted by lovemybabies on March 7, 2003, at 6:42:10
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » lovemybabies, posted by KrissyP on March 6, 2003, at 21:47:27
Hi,
I just increased to 150mg yesterday. So far, no nausea but the lightheadedness is back. My doc. said it helps better w/anxiety at higher doses.
Posted by napaba on March 7, 2003, at 14:30:41
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » lovemybabies, posted by Tina P on March 6, 2003, at 20:36:35
My doctor said it depends on why you eat. Do you eat because of the depression and Anxiety or do you eat when your happy? I eat because of the depression and Anxiety. So for me I've been losing weight. Not a lot and not quickly. Which is OK as long as it comes off.
It's funny- seems to be as much a mystery to you and me as it is to our doctors. I was switched to Effexor XL from Paxil because I was gaining weight, and it hasn't made a difference. But in your case, you WANT to gain and can't! I think it depends on the person, their eating habits/issues, and their metabolism. But that's just my opinion.
Posted by KrissyP on March 7, 2003, at 15:02:31
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help!, posted by napaba on March 7, 2003, at 14:30:41
Hi, It definately depends on WHAT a person eats, but I eat mostly under stress, and frustration. I also have a HUGE sweet tooth! I don't tend to overeat when I'm happy though, which makes sense. I think I, personally use food to cope with uncomfortable feelings. I need to work on that.
I talk a good game :-( But now I need to take action-I'm workin on it.
All the best:-)
Kristen------------------------------------------My doctor said it depends on why you eat. Do you eat because of the depression and Anxiety or do you eat when your happy? I eat because of the depression and Anxiety. So for me I've been losing weight. Not a lot and not quickly. Which is OK as long as it comes off.
Posted by Tina P on March 7, 2003, at 19:29:48
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help!, posted by napaba on March 7, 2003, at 14:30:32
Well, that would explain my problem. I want to eat no matter how I'm feeling emotionally!
Posted by KrissyP on March 8, 2003, at 0:12:03
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by MidgesMom on March 6, 2003, at 3:50:39
I'm sorry you had a not so good experience on Effexor. God-I'm torn with this Effexor-XR I started back on about a week and a half ago. When I was on it before it helped, but I also got nervous stutters, and last night I couldn't remember if I took the pill-when I figured out I DID.
I am realizing too that taking a pill ALONE wasn't going to make my life easier, so I did therapy, then some, and then some. I have gotten better.
Thanks for your post,
Kristen:-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I have been on Effexor in vrious dosages for several years now and am on my way off of it. It really helped at first but slowly through the years I began to notice little changes. Twitching of the hands, feet and legs during sleep mostly, where I'd wake up from it, nervous stutters later on, forgetfullness, not being able to remember if I took the pill or not; very fuzzy logic, and lastly, sweating through the night. Sound like I am getting older? I'm not even thirty. Finally informed my doctor that I couldn't handle the side effects anymore to get the benefit of a calm presence of mind. He has been stepping me down slowly to smallest dose and onto Wellbutrin, with Buspar on the side. It works. I haven't had the sickness of withdrawal symptoms, and I am in more control now than ever before in my life. But what had to change as well as the medicine was me realizing that taking a pill alone wasn't going to make my life easier; I had to take a strong inventory of what it is was that made me so mad on a moments notice. And being able to get mental control, when I have a physical inability to make enough of the chemicals my body needs has really helped. And exercise, along with yoga as really helped me even out my life. It's been just amazing. Had I to do it over again with Effexor, for the record I would, it gave me a chance to realise how rotten I had been with my well meaning friends and family, and it gave me the power to get better control of my life; but the side effects get worse the longer you are on it; so the benefits must be carefully weighed. Ultimately, it's a personal decision. Best of luck to you in yours!
>
Posted by Mikeyqld on March 8, 2003, at 1:22:36
In reply to Re:Intractable Effexor Withdrawl , posted by cjl on August 23, 2000, at 21:07:19
Hiya all. Ive been tapering off Effexor XR for over a fortnight now and have been really hassled by the strange "electrical shocks" that some of you know about! I have stoppped taking Effexor totally for 2 full days now and last night i slept for a total of 18 hours. I have still been getting the "shocks" and am starting to think that tapering off slowly really hasn't helped these. I hope they go away soon. Any suggestions on relieving them would be great! Good luck to us all.
Posted by KrissyP on March 8, 2003, at 1:26:43
In reply to Dosage alteration symptoms, posted by Mikeyqld on March 8, 2003, at 1:22:36
Posted by Mikeyqld on March 8, 2003, at 2:01:19
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! » MidgesMom, posted by KrissyP on March 8, 2003, at 0:12:03
I thought id give an overview of my own probs incase it can help anyone else. 18 years old and i get a total of 3 panic attacks. Mention them to my GP and he says starts taking this (Aropax) and tells me im a "worrier" like my mum! I had a shocking time on Aropax (only lasted a fortnight) and my GP then changed me to Effexor. I got the same sorts of side effects but they did soon settle down to a point where i could notice nothing strange even if i tried!
The panic attacks were gone but i felt like i was on a downward spiral to insanity! I mean, i was 18 and having to take anti-depressant drugs and worst of all i had no knowledge of what they were and why i needed them and of course - no one to talk to about it all (too ashamed of myself).
Over time, i started to notice that I was sweating profusely - especially at night and when (strange i know) i was sitting with my legs horizontal (still can't figure this one out!) My memory seemed to be slowly getting worse and i had gone from being dux of my grade to an "average" brain!
After having ongoing stomach problems, my GP decided that maybe the effexor was causing this and put me on to Serzone. Well, this was the worst period in my life and when i went back to him after about a month, i discovered that he had put me on something that shouldn't have been used for panic attacks! Nice to see that the doctor had been careful while messing with my own health and well-being!
Back on effexor for me! And with a large amount of help from a different GP, i discovered that it was a safe drug to use and not uncommon for someone my age. This gave me piece of mind and more self esteem.
But....! I developed a problem where after nearly every meal and sometimes totally spontaneously, i would be hit with what i describe as "yawning attacks and lethargy". I felt out of it - dissociated and my speech was slightly slurred and my memory was getting worse.
Having been to an endocrinologist with no luck, and tested for a million different things, i decided to knuckle down and spend the time, money and effort to get this sorted. After all, as most guys would know, people will hapily spend a thousand dollars on a car if it is broken - so why not the same ease to spend money on myself while i was broken?!
So i went to a psychiatrist and have been seeing him almost weekly for 2 months now. He has been a great help and has outlined a plan to rule out some of the more scary possible causes and hopefully find an answer. The list has included the following:- Generalised anxiety disorder, adrenal disorder, hypoglycemia, chronic fatigue, post viral syndrome (did i mention the 2 viruses i had while in high school?), a rare type of epilepsy, a legion or small (normally benign) tumor, food allergy.... and the list goes on.
He and i agree that i do have some form or anxiety disorder. But this appears to be second to a main cause that we cannot (so far) track down. The other possibility was that effexor was not agreeing with me and might have been causing a lot of my problems although helping with the anxiety and panic attacks.
Hyperventilation has been ruled out as a cause of the yawning attacks and yesterday i had an EEG and a CT scan done. I will let you know of the results when i get them next friday. These were done to check for the epilepsy and the tumor or legion and its funny but i kinda hope that it turns out to be one of these (at least i will be able to tell people that this is what is wrong with me!).
Well, that is a fairly comprehensive view of my past few years. If anyone has any questions or suggestions i am here to help and be helped.
The last thing i will say is that i have lost many friends and even a close girlfriend because of my problems. They are the type of thing that are very hard for most people to talk about so try to find at least one person that you know who cares and share it with them. If they truly to care, they might be able to help. But if they run, its not because they don't care, its because they can't understand. Other than that, use this site as much as possible because here you will find people who DO understand. And make a pledge now with me that when you do finally get your own problem sorted, you will continue to come here and try to help others in similar positions. The worst thing is that once poeple don't have their problem, they will stop visiting sites like this and therefore, there knowledge and positive experiences will be lost and of no use to anyone else. There are answers out there - they are just bloody hard to find! Hugs to you all.
Posted by lovemybabies on March 8, 2003, at 6:41:43
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Mikeyqld on March 8, 2003, at 2:01:19
My goodness! Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I agree 100% with you about spending whatever it takes to fix yourself(like some people do with their car!). I think cognitive therapy and behavior modification are really necessary to 'fix' anxiety disorders. Not just pills alone. I hope all your tests go well. It's a pain to go through those but you'll have such peace of mind when it's all over. I had an EMG last week(involves sticking needles into arm muscles...NOT fun) to rule out something horrible...why I'm having finger/hand numbness. Those symptoms threw me into a three-month long panic attack. Thinking I had everything from MS to ALS. Turns out, it's just carpal tunnel syndrome and an 'impinged' ulnar nerve in my elbow. And I was ready to commit myself to a long-term care facility since I 'knew' I'd be paralyzed for the rest of my life...duh...I NEED that off-switch for my brain sometimes!
Best of luck to you and please keep us updated. Your posting was a pleasure to read.
Jen
Posted by Tina P on March 8, 2003, at 7:36:54
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Mikeyqld on March 8, 2003, at 2:01:19
I found your story to be quite interesting, and I agree with everything you said about dealing with our problems. I consider myself a success story. All I need is 75mg of Effexor XL a day, and insulin to treat my diabetes, and I'm functioning quite well. I intend to continue visiting this site and sharing my experiences with people like you through both the good and the bad times. I noticed you mentioned hypoglycemia as being one of the many possibilities of the cause of some of your problems. If by some chance it does turn out to be a blood sugar-related issue, I'd be happy to share my knowledge of diabetes with you, as I have had it for years and feel I know as much about it as any doctor, or even more because I actually live with it! Best of luck to you with all the tests you'll be going through!
Posted by RealTim on March 8, 2003, at 10:40:32
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by lovemybabies on March 8, 2003, at 6:41:43
Cognitive behavior therapy is in fact a great tool, and underutilized by a world that wants a pill to fix our problems. The Psych is narrowing everything down to some sort of physical problem, I assume she/he has adequately ruled out a behavioral issue? The MDs are famous for trying to fix everything with medicine. Mike, you seem young for someone to have developed panic attacks so I suppose a contributing physical issue is a likely suspect. But keep an open mind.
My wife is in school for counseling, and the PHd teaching a class about ADs keeps saying things like "we now know that chemical inbalances account for most depression and anxiety today". When she objected to what was being said, she was shut down with a comment like "yes, therapy is important but it cannot change someone's brain chemistry." My wife says if she hears the professor say "we now know" one more time she will vomit.
I think this is a load of crap. Your brain chemistry can clearly be changed by experiences. That's how many of us became depressed in the first place. For me it was a series of setbacks in my career, for others it's a trauma like rape or a car accident. Still for others it's years of living with obesity, problems with family, physical sickness, or just not fitting in, etc.
If we can get ourselves into this through environmental/behavioral means, why can't we accept that that is the best way out? Probably because of 2 things: (1) we WANT to believe it is a physical problem because then there it is not our "fault" and/or; (2) we live in a fast-paced world of convenience and have become inpatient as a society--we want the quick fix even if it "might" harm our livers and give us a series of unpleasant side effects.
I don't mean to sound one-sided. Effexor helped me get through a tough period, and all ADs have their place. But in my opinion people who resign themselves to long term treatment with drugs are making a mistake (excepting your bi-polar or shizophrenic or similar extremes perhaps).
Posted by lovemybabies on March 8, 2003, at 11:10:23
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by RealTim on March 8, 2003, at 10:40:32
Amen, Brother! :)
Posted by jtc on March 8, 2003, at 11:53:21
In reply to Re: Weight gain! Dizziness! Help! » napaba, posted by KrissyP on March 7, 2003, at 15:02:31
Hi, I agree with you Kristen. I also have a huge sweet tooth and I think I am addicted to chocolate. I also eat when stressed or frustrated especially when my husband makes me angry, which is a lot lately. I need to work on it too. I have decided to go off Effexor. I was taking 75 mg and now am on my third day of 37.5. I have a headache which is not unusual for me because I have a lot of tension and migraine headaches anyway. Will keep you posted on the withdrawal effects if I have any. Thanks for the advice everyone gives on this board. It is really helpful, JC
> Hi, It definately depends on WHAT a person eats, but I eat mostly under stress, and frustration. I also have a HUGE sweet tooth! I don't tend to overeat when I'm happy though, which makes sense. I think I, personally use food to cope with uncomfortable feelings. I need to work on that.
> I talk a good game :-( But now I need to take action-I'm workin on it.
> All the best:-)
> Kristen------------------------------------------
>
> My doctor said it depends on why you eat. Do you eat because of the depression and Anxiety or do you eat when your happy? I eat because of the depression and Anxiety. So for me I've been losing weight. Not a lot and not quickly. Which is OK as long as it comes off.
>
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.