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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 13:33:06
In reply to What would the result be? » Alan, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 9:46:08
> More drugs approved? Fewer drugs approved? Should Lexapro, for instance, have been approved?
============================================The result would be medications that have the proper kind and amount of oversight in a way that there would be, by comparison, no conflict of interest.
I think that it speaks for itself that the quality of drugs would increase substantially.
Lexapro research? Suffers from the same conflicts of interest as with any other newly introduced medication as of now...
Alan
Posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 14:10:37
In reply to Re: What would the result be? » Anyuser, posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 13:33:06
Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 14:28:21
In reply to In other words, fewer drugs, less choice (nm) » Alan, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 14:10:37
From the results of the current system of oversight one would have no problem whatsoever asserting that quantity does not equal quality...especially if one takes into consideration that doing the most amount of good for the most amount of people is paramount.
From what I see and read in credible media, bboards like these, and the research that is out there, much of the drugs and drug marketing is set up in such a cookie cutter, commercially driven fashion that there's any wonder the most and severe complaints are seen with the very drugs (modern AD's) that are a product of the present system. (see link in next post).
But if secrecy and quantitiy is what one's after instead of full disclosure and the least amount of harm being done to the least amount of patients, one can always stick with the present system.
The politics of medicine has shifted more to the "free market will solve everything" model at the patient's expense.
Alan
Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 14:31:19
In reply to In other words, fewer drugs, less choice (nm) » Alan, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 14:10:37
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4201752,00.html
Special attention given to the World Health Organisation's two paragraph's worth about the newer AD's.
Alan
Posted by johnj on November 8, 2002, at 15:35:21
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice » Anyuser, posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 14:31:19
"One of the main selling points of the SSRIs when they arrived in the early 1990s was that people did not become physically dependent on them as they had on older antidepressants - the benzodiazepines such as Valium and Librium."
Posted by dr. justin on November 8, 2002, at 17:01:49
In reply to Re: dr dave can you answer?, posted by wharfrat on November 7, 2002, at 9:27:00
wharf,
Totally off subject, but I had to thank you for the first good laugh I've had in a while. My best friend in college (Northern Arizona U.) was a Texan, and he had all sorts of sayings, including the classic, "I'm a Texan and it's my duty to drink." I can't count the times we were cut off at the bar and he'd loudly pronounce that one. Most of us here go too long without simply joys like a good laugh, plus your post forced some great memories to the surface. Thanks...
justin
Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 18:13:07
In reply to In other words, fewer drugs, less choice (nm) » Alan, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 14:10:37
PS. Such a question would imply that our choice consists of less effective drugs being dressed up to look better than they actually are!
Would anyone really do that? Surely not for trivial incentives like profit...
Posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 18:53:38
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice » Anyuser, posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 18:13:07
I suppose it's just an eensy bit more complicated than that. I would be in favor of both the increased disclosure of information that you advocate, and also less FDA restriction. I would be opposed to making the perfect the enemy of the good. That is, approving only perfect drugs (there is no such thing). The possibility that a drug company might make a profit doesn't trouble me in the least. In fact, I'm looking for a good investment. Any recommendations?
Posted by Geezer on November 8, 2002, at 21:49:04
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 18:53:38
Anyuser,
How very well said!! A little additional "freedom & incentive" to develope something more than another split isomer SSRI would be most welcome by those of us with TRD, as well.
I have completed my eighth ECT treatment as of this morning and will begin taking Parnate tomorrow morning. I don't look to the FDA to facilitate any drug benefits on my behalf regardless of maker, motive, or disclosure.
Thanks for the post,
Geezer
Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 23:32:55
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice, posted by Anyuser on November 8, 2002, at 18:53:38
> I suppose it's just an eensy bit more complicated than that. I would be in favor of both the increased disclosure of information that you advocate, and also less FDA restriction.
How is less FDA oversight going to improve the quality of testing that has been found to be inadequate? There are too many conflicts of interest as I mentioned before. NIH would be much more qualified and dispassionate to provide improved (not perfect) oversight.
>I would be opposed to making the perfect the enemy of the good. That is, approving only perfect drugs (there is no such thing).
Surely this is an exaggeration. Who said anything about perfect drugs?....only a process by which the testing is done with the betterment of *true* results being the motivating factor, not profits.
>The possibility that a drug company might make a profit doesn't trouble me in the least. In fact, I'm looking for a good investment. Any recommendations?
The most profitiable business on the planet today needs to make more profit? See paragraph directly above. Quantitiy does not equate with improvement in quality. The outcome of the "shotgun" effect is intrinsicically not for the betterment of the patient.
Posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 23:39:58
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice » Anyuser, posted by Geezer on November 8, 2002, at 21:49:04
> Anyuser,
>
> How very well said!! A little additional "freedom & incentive" to develope something more than another split isomer SSRI would be most welcome by those of us with TRD, as well.A rather limited example to assert your point. The explosion of AD's in the last 10 years has been facilitated by the very process that has given us medications by the World Health Organisation's standards as being the top medications for patient's complaints, far ahead of anything else. If it isn't broke, don't fix it is what i hear being said?
>
> I have completed my eighth ECT treatment as of this morning and will begin taking Parnate tomorrow morning. I don't look to the FDA to facilitate any drug benefits on my behalf regardless of maker, motive, or disclosure.
>
> Thanks for the post,
>
> GeezerWho do and have you looked to may I ask then?
Alan
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2002, at 1:25:01
In reply to Re: In other words, fewer drugs, less choice » Anyuser, posted by Alan on November 8, 2002, at 23:32:55
> How is less FDA oversight going to improve the quality of testing that has been found to be inadequate?
I'd like discussion of FDA policies, etc., to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble. Thanks,
Bob
PS: And follow-ups regarding posting policies to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 8:07:21
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
Hi,
I've been on 10mgs of Lexapro for over 3 weeks and am still getting daily headaches. From others experiences, how long before they go away?
My depression has gone away, which is great, but headaches aren't fun.
Thanks,
charly
Posted by wharfrat on November 10, 2002, at 10:55:13
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
Thanks Dr. Bob, I kind of would like people to get back on the subject "Anyone switched to Lexapro" and take their FDA complaints elsewhere.No offense to anyone, I'm just tired of conspiracy theories that's all. I for one am more interested in how this med is working for people, be it good or bad and how everybody is doing.
So, my question to anybody out there is this.
Has anyone been "newly" diagnosed and been put on lexapro without ever having been on an antidepressant before and how is it working for them?
Posted by Phyl on November 10, 2002, at 11:54:22
In reply to Re: Thanks Dr. Bob on Redirect, posted by wharfrat on November 10, 2002, at 10:55:13
> Thanks Dr. Bob, I kind of would like people to get back on the subject "Anyone switched to Lexapro" and take their FDA complaints elsewhere.No offense to anyone, I'm just tired of conspiracy theories that's all. I for one am more interested in how this med is working for people, be it good or bad and how everybody is doing.
> So, my question to anybody out there is this.
> Has anyone been "newly" diagnosed and been put on lexapro without ever having been on an antidepressant before and how is it working for them?I have never been on any medication other than for BP. I was put on Lexapro for anxiety -- i.e., worrying. I also am a "first class" insomniac. I have never been diagnosed as being depressed.
I notice very little difference during the daytime on Lexapro, which I take in the morning. I take 7.5 mg. and will probably stay on this dosage. What I DO notice is that I am always very tired from about 6:00 p.m. on. My internist asked me to force myself to stay awake until normal bedtime for me (11:00 p.m.) but I am so sleepy, I just can't stay up. (Last night, I went to bed at 7 p.m!) I find that I fall asleep pretty quickly (which is most unusual for me) and sleep about four hours straight (also unusual for me). I might wake up several times after that, but I fall asleep again. I also notice that I feel tired in the morning and don't want to get up but, once up, I am fine. Lexapro seems to act as a "sleeping pill" for me, but it also seems to slow down my brain so that I am not constantly going over things in my head when I am trying to fall asleep. So far, so good.
Posted by ANXIETY ANN on November 10, 2002, at 12:20:23
In reply to Lexapro and headaches, how long do they last?..., posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 8:07:21
Hi Charly,
my experience with Lexapro has been pretty good, in the beginning I had horrible headaches. THis lasted for about a week. now after about 4 weeks I only get occasional headaches and nausea. I do get dizzy in the am and pm but I hope that will go away soon. Hang in there for the headaches, everyone is different so it just may take your body longer to get used to the drug.
good luck Ann
Posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 14:00:10
In reply to Re: Lexapro and headaches, how long do they last?..., posted by ANXIETY ANN on November 10, 2002, at 12:20:23
> Hi Charly,
> my experience with Lexapro has been pretty good, in the beginning I had horrible headaches. THis lasted for about a week. now after about 4 weeks I only get occasional headaches and nausea. I do get dizzy in the am and pm but I hope that will go away soon. Hang in there for the headaches, everyone is different so it just may take your body longer to get used to the drug.
> good luck AnnI appreciate the encouragement. The first 2 weeks I felt energized, now I feel a bit sluggish. Perhaps it's the pot I smoke once in a while.
Regards,
charly
Posted by bridgette on November 10, 2002, at 15:09:09
In reply to Thank you Ann (nt), posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 14:00:10
I have been on Lexapro for 6 weeks but I had Wellbutrin added 5 days ago and either the Lexapro really kicked in OR the Wellbutrin did the trick. I definately feel better---I'm guessing it's the addition of Wellbutrin, but the real question is is when you are on two drugs----how does one know which one???? I added 150mg of Wellbutrin SR----I have even thought about asking for more Wellbutin and cut out the Lexapro, but it's too earlt to do that and, maybe it's the combo that works. I do worry (not much) about the seizure risk w/Wellbutrin (though a small risk w/the SR) because I like a glass of wine at night. Any thoughts on any of this???
Posted by Katarina on November 10, 2002, at 15:23:01
In reply to Lexapro and headaches, how long do they last?..., posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 8:07:21
> Hi,
>
> I've been on 10mgs of Lexapro for over 3 weeks and am still getting daily headaches. From others experiences, how long before they go away?
> My depression has gone away, which is great, but headaches aren't fun.
> Thanks,
> charlyHi Charly,
I'm on Lexapro, too and it's been 4 weeks. I feel awful on it. I have headaches, the throbbing kind, dizziness and much anxiety. I have called with updates. My doc put me on Serax for the anxiety. Which is o.k., but not the answer. He wanted to raise my dosage but again I think it's not the answer. I shall call again about changing meds. For me this one sucks! But I hope for you it will work. In any case, good luck! Let us know how you fare in the long run.
Cheers,
-Kat
Posted by charly on November 10, 2002, at 16:50:54
In reply to Re: Lexapro and headaches, how long do they last?..., posted by Katarina on November 10, 2002, at 15:23:01
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been on 10mgs of Lexapro for over 3 weeks and am still getting daily headaches. From others experiences, how long before they go away?
> > My depression has gone away, which is great, but headaches aren't fun.
> > Thanks,
> > charly
>
> Hi Charly,
> I'm on Lexapro, too and it's been 4 weeks. I feel awful on it. I have headaches, the throbbing kind, dizziness and much anxiety. I have called with updates. My doc put me on Serax for the anxiety. Which is o.k., but not the answer. He wanted to raise my dosage but again I think it's not the answer. I shall call again about changing meds. For me this one sucks! But I hope for you it will work. In any case, good luck! Let us know how you fare in the long run.
> Cheers,
> -Kat
>
>However, I tried the immediate release 7 years ago and even on 75mgs I was sweating up a storm and no relief in depressive symptoms. Before the XR became available, some docs would call it
"SideEffexor". I understand the XR is much better tolerated, but chose Lexapro. Lilly is coming out with an AD that works similar to Effexor but the re-uptake of serotonin and neurepinephrine is equally balanced. He's currently doing study trials and is very impressed with the results and no sexual dysfunction.
Regards,
charly
Posted by mills on November 11, 2002, at 10:21:20
In reply to How we're doing on Lexapro., posted by bridgette on November 10, 2002, at 15:09:09
I wish to god that in just one area of my life, for once, I could have experience that is not a reinvention of the wheel; sigh; anyway, that says it all for my 30 years of non-controllable obsessive introspection (cognitive compulsion vs. behavioral)/borderline schizoiditis (my words, as if I needed to say that);
anyway, my doc moved me from 20 mg up to 30 mg starting Friday, and there is good and bad; my mood improved almost immediately, for which I'm thankful, but my head feels just plain weird; I just feel "unreal;" does ANYONE have that experience or anything close to it; someone please tell me you do, but only if you really do, and please tell me if you don't as well. I just wish I could comiserate with someone on my symptoms that have isolated me in my experience for so f****** long; excuse my french
i hope to hear from some of you; thanks
> I have been on Lexapro for 6 weeks but I had Wellbutrin added 5 days ago and either the Lexapro really kicked in OR the Wellbutrin did the trick. I definately feel better---I'm guessing it's the addition of Wellbutrin, but the real question is is when you are on two drugs----how does one know which one???? I added 150mg of Wellbutrin SR----I have even thought about asking for more Wellbutin and cut out the Lexapro, but it's too earlt to do that and, maybe it's the combo that works. I do worry (not much) about the seizure risk w/Wellbutrin (though a small risk w/the SR) because I like a glass of wine at night. Any thoughts on any of this???
Posted by markmn on November 11, 2002, at 11:50:29
In reply to Paxil to Lexapro--Let's see, salvation or sex??, posted by mills on October 3, 2002, at 15:49:53
I am in the midst of switching from Paxil (15mg) to Lex (10mg). I'm certainly having withdrawal from the Paxil even though I was on such a low dose. I'm extremely irritable and foggy headed. I've also expirienced some facial numbness? Why the heck not? Any suggestions for dealing with these symptoms?
Anyway, it's been six days since I started the Lex and nothing yet. I suppose it hasn't kicked in. I've heard good things about it and hope that it will take effect soon. How is everyone else doing with the Paxil to Lex switch?-mark
Posted by mills on November 11, 2002, at 12:50:28
In reply to Re: Paxil to Lexapro--Let's see, salvation or sex??, posted by markmn on November 11, 2002, at 11:50:29
Well, I switched from 40 mg of Paxil (I'm crazier than most, you see), to, now, 30 mg of Lexapro. The most important thing about getting off of Paxil is go very very slowwwwwwwwwwwly; do not rush it; I would say if you experience the negative symptoms, you need to go slower, if that's possible;
as far as Paxil vs Lex, so far I'll take Paxil for efficacy; it saved my life, but the sexual side effects were unacceptable; I have just gone to 30 mg of lex and my mood has improved considerably, but my head is weird, and I hope it levels out; I'll let you know
> I am in the midst of switching from Paxil (15mg) to Lex (10mg). I'm certainly having withdrawal from the Paxil even though I was on such a low dose. I'm extremely irritable and foggy headed. I've also expirienced some facial numbness? Why the heck not? Any suggestions for dealing with these symptoms?
> Anyway, it's been six days since I started the Lex and nothing yet. I suppose it hasn't kicked in. I've heard good things about it and hope that it will take effect soon. How is everyone else doing with the Paxil to Lex switch?
>
> -mark
Posted by wharfrat on November 11, 2002, at 13:43:45
In reply to Re: Thanks Dr. Bob on Redirect, posted by Phyl on November 10, 2002, at 11:54:22
> > Thanks Dr. Bob, I kind of would like people to get back on the subject "Anyone switched to Lexapro" and take their FDA complaints elsewhere.No offense to anyone, I'm just tired of conspiracy theories that's all. I for one am more interested in how this med is working for people, be it good or bad and how everybody is doing.
> > So, my question to anybody out there is this.
> > Has anyone been "newly" diagnosed and been put on lexapro without ever having been on an antidepressant before and how is it working for them?
>
> I have never been on any medication other than for BP. I was put on Lexapro for anxiety -- i.e., worrying. I also am a "first class" insomniac. I have never been diagnosed as being depressed.
>
> I notice very little difference during the daytime on Lexapro, which I take in the morning. I take 7.5 mg. and will probably stay on this dosage. What I DO notice is that I am always very tired from about 6:00 p.m. on. My internist asked me to force myself to stay awake until normal bedtime for me (11:00 p.m.) but I am so sleepy, I just can't stay up. (Last night, I went to bed at 7 p.m!) I find that I fall asleep pretty quickly (which is most unusual for me) and sleep about four hours straight (also unusual for me). I might wake up several times after that, but I fall asleep again. I also notice that I feel tired in the morning and don't want to get up but, once up, I am fine. Lexapro seems to act as a "sleeping pill" for me, but it also seems to slow down my brain so that I am not constantly going over things in my head when I am trying to fall asleep. So far, so good.Phyl, I was diagnosed with depression, however I think it's general anxiety disorder. I too have always worried excessively about things, you know,"My wife's 10 minutes late from work, the hiways terrible this time of day!! What's the news helicopter hovering over the hiway for??? Do I hear sirens???!!!!" I never would say that I have insomnia but waking up at 3:00 AM to go to the bathroom, go back to bed and not be able to go back to sleep from thinking about all the things I've got to do at work and then falling asleep just about the time the alarm would go off at 6:30 was getting to be to much. Dr. put me on 10 MG Lex and after about 1-1/2 weeks I started sleeping all the way thru the night (I usually go to bed about 10:00). But I know what you mean about getting sleepy early, I've woken up on the couch several times with the last memory being the TV show that was on at 8:00. I just get up, go to bed and go straight to sleep. It's pretty cool!! I don't worry near as much either anymore, things just don't get to me like they used to.
Good luck
Posted by wharfrat on November 11, 2002, at 14:17:51
In reply to Thanks Wharfrat!, posted by dr. justin on November 8, 2002, at 17:01:49
> wharf,
>
> Totally off subject, but I had to thank you for the first good laugh I've had in a while. My best friend in college (Northern Arizona U.) was a Texan, and he had all sorts of sayings, including the classic, "I'm a Texan and it's my duty to drink." I can't count the times we were cut off at the bar and he'd loudly pronounce that one. Most of us here go too long without simply joys like a good laugh, plus your post forced some great memories to the surface. Thanks...
>
> justinGlad I could help with a laugh. Sounds like your college buddy is a good ole boy! What part of the great country of Texas is he from?
I read an earlier post from you about how you were going to start taking Lex and then went on to talk about your recipe which included wellbutrin. Have you started Lex yet? My Doc told me if sexual side effects (Difficulty pulling the trigger) don't go away he'll put me on Wellbutrin, said he heard it helps. I'm not having as bad a time now with the aforementioned side effects (after 7 weeks on lex) as I was at first. Just drink a few beers, get the wife a bottle of Chardonnay, get rid of the kids and things "work out" just fine.If you ah, get my drift.
Good luck Doctor
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