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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Zo on May 24, 2002, at 16:56:10
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Listohep on May 22, 2002, at 9:19:36
Oh, my. I'm a writer and painter who has been hung up with undiagnosed Bipolar II--and ADD, and TLE, which all three are related, or perhaps faces of the same thing, related to Kindling. . .which is so much a part of creativity, the separation of diagnoses becomes pointless; what is important is to become stabilized at just the right point.And I am here to tell you, after many many lost years, that the adjustment to being "mood stabilized" evoked only a very brief sense of loss, with me, in that this wonderful peace began. . .and out of it, more mature work than I was ever capable of doing. As well as follow-through! It took very little practice to reaccess the writing state, and in six months, I must admit, I never think of the highs anymore. Never miss them--so much so that perhaps one becomes in a way addicted to them, dependent upon that feeling of being high. People told me it wasn't necessary, to creativity, to happiness. I didn't really believe it, but was so depressed and exhausted by Bipolar II, I took the Lamictal anyway.
Only when profound suffering is over, can one begin to unravel the myths, even begin to use the experience in one's art, oneself, in a rewarding way--which is the best reward of all.
Zo
Posted by PamelaLynn on May 25, 2002, at 12:11:38
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » Listohep, posted by Zo on May 24, 2002, at 16:56:10
Well now, one couldn't TELL you were a writer could one?? LOL I think I 'got' all of what you were trying to express here.....Just one question, so you are saying it is a 'good' thing that you are taking the Lamictal?
P.L.
> Oh, my. I'm a writer and painter who has been hung up with undiagnosed Bipolar II--and ADD, and TLE, which all three are related, or perhaps faces of the same thing, related to Kindling. . .which is so much a part of creativity, the separation of diagnoses becomes pointless; what is important is to become stabilized at just the right point.
>
> And I am here to tell you, after many many lost years, that the adjustment to being "mood stabilized" evoked only a very brief sense of loss, with me, in that this wonderful peace began. . .and out of it, more mature work than I was ever capable of doing. As well as follow-through! It took very little practice to reaccess the writing state, and in six months, I must admit, I never think of the highs anymore. Never miss them--so much so that perhaps one becomes in a way addicted to them, dependent upon that feeling of being high. People told me it wasn't necessary, to creativity, to happiness. I didn't really believe it, but was so depressed and exhausted by Bipolar II, I took the Lamictal anyway.
>
> Only when profound suffering is over, can one begin to unravel the myths, even begin to use the experience in one's art, oneself, in a rewarding way--which is the best reward of all.
>
> Zo
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2002, at 19:44:51
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » Zo, posted by PamelaLynn on May 25, 2002, at 12:11:38
Kate Refield Jamison, who is Bipolar herself, has written a great book about this called Touched by Fire. It chronicles many of earlier poets and composers and makes a convincing case that most of the great minds in the art world have been bipolar. The artistic temperment and talent is a blessing and gift that does not go away. It may become rerouted for a while and the wild ecstacy may become tamed, but that wild passion is wired into our soul. I believe there are meds that can cause us to become drooling zombies, but that's not what we're alluding to here with the stabilizers.
What Zo metioned about a more mature expression is so true. I am abundantly blessed in many artistic areas - music, art, dance, cooking, you name it. I pick things up easily and do them well and visions swirl and dance in my mind. But it's been the heartbreak of my life that I've been too depressed and mentally disorganized to successfully sustain anything. I'd start a class, lessons, a paying job and have to bail out midway because IT would hit.
Just a few months ago I was on the toilet reading Oprah crying my eyes out in despair 'How do these women do these things?'. I was so utterly depressed, scattered and defeated. That was before adding lithium to my brew. For the first time in so very long I'm on the right med combo and am starting to tentatively spread my wings. I have to get over the fact that I'm now 51 and despair that it's 'too late'. Too late for who and what? I'm getting a belly dance class together and already it's almost full. I definitely have not run out of creative ideas! It's gonna one hot class!!
Posted by Zo on May 26, 2002, at 3:28:39
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » Zo, posted by PamelaLynn on May 25, 2002, at 12:11:38
Are you saying my post was. . .. writerish?Wandering? ENORMOUSLY ADD? Huh? Is that what you're saying?
I'm glad you appreciated it. It is sooo much work for me to write a concise, straightforward post.
YES it's a good thing I'm taking Lamictal! It's only proven gooder and gooder, as the months have gone on. ..
;o) Zo
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 28, 2002, at 14:00:58
In reply to mood stabilizers creativity, posted by BarbaraCat on May 25, 2002, at 19:44:51
Hi Barb,
I don't know much about 'Bipolarity II' but I must confess I strongly admire your courage & your creativeness and envy your writing talents. Also, I think I understand what is meant by the title you refer ('Touched by Fire', that's a tremendously expressive phrase...).
And didn't you know that 'life' begins at 50? Take care my friend.Iago
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 28, 2002, at 17:59:10
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on May 28, 2002, at 14:00:58
Iago,
Good to hear from you! Haven't been keeping up with my Remeron Increase stories since I've leveled off at 75mg and am feeling good on this dose. Glad to hear that life begins at 50. It sure feels that way since I decided to add lithium. Even with the Remeron increase, it's the lithium that has made all the difference. And how are you doing?Ciao,
Barbara
Posted by Christina333 on June 26, 2002, at 22:40:25
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » Iago Camboa, posted by BarbaraCat on May 28, 2002, at 17:59:10
I've recently been diagnosed with Cyclothymia. My doc. put me on Effexor 150 mg. Does anybody else take this? What does lithium do? The effexor curbed my mood swings but I am not in a good mood. I can never sleep when I need to. I am on trazedone to help me sleep. 150 mg and I still can't sleep. Does anybody else have this problem?
Posted by jmo on June 27, 2002, at 8:28:22
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » Iago Camboa, posted by Christina333 on June 26, 2002, at 22:40:25
> I've recently been diagnosed with Cyclothymia. My doc. put me on Effexor 150 mg. Does anybody else take this? What does lithium do? The effexor curbed my mood swings but I am not in a good mood. I can never sleep when I need to. I am on trazedone to help me sleep. 150 mg and I still can't sleep. Does anybody else have this problem?
I'm curious as to when you are taking your Effexor. Is it all at once or in 2 doses? I'm on the same dosage and it's been a wonderful thing for me. I take 75mg w/breakfast and 75 mg w/lunch. I also take Serzone, 300 mg total split between dinner and bedtime.
Posted by Iago Camboa on June 28, 2002, at 2:59:00
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » Iago Camboa, posted by Christina333 on June 26, 2002, at 22:40:25
Hi Christina,
If you still have difficulties in sleeping I would suggest .5mg-1mg Xanax at bedtime or for really bad insomnia Ambien 10mg (try first 1/2 pill (5mg) then 1 pill if needed). Please tell us how you are doing.
Many kind regards,
Iago> I've recently been diagnosed with Cyclothymia. My doc. put me on Effexor 150 mg. Does anybody else take this? What does lithium do? The effexor curbed my mood swings but I am not in a good mood. I can never sleep when I need to. I am on trazedone to help me sleep. 150 mg and I still can't sleep. Does anybody else have this problem?
Posted by Iago Camboa on June 28, 2002, at 3:42:24
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » Iago Camboa, posted by BarbaraCat on May 28, 2002, at 17:59:10
> Iago,
> Good to hear from you! Haven't been keeping up with my Remeron Increase stories since I've leveled off at 75mg and am feeling good on this dose. Glad to hear that life begins at 50. It sure feels that way since I decided to add lithium. Even with the Remeron increase, it's the lithium that has made all the difference. And how are you doing?
>
> Ciao,
> BarbaraBarbara,
I think I've never responded to this post & I feel very very ashamed not to have. Will you, please, forgive me? I've been reading your recent posts and I wish you the very best of luck. I miss most your delicious posts. If you have the time email me a long writing if you like (I posted my email address). I promise to write back without delay. But if you don't feel the mood to, I will be content with a concise post. May I send you a 'respectful' gentle kiss?
Yours, Iago
Posted by BarbaraCat on June 30, 2002, at 13:40:33
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on June 28, 2002, at 3:42:24
Iaog,
Hello and hope you are in enjoyment, my friend. No problem with getting back to me sooner, as I have also been rather haphazard with keeping up with my Babbler friends. Nothing too new with me, except for becoming re-committed to an ongoing health regimen. I've been taking moderately high doses of pharmaceutical grade fish oil (for Omega 3 production). Time will tell if it has a lasting beneficial effect with the fibromyalgia symptoms. My hope is that it allows me to get back to a good exercise routine, as that is what truly has the most positive benefits for me. Other than that, life continues to unfold, and I seek to graciously allow it to do so. A twinkle of the eye to you. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Iago Camboa on July 2, 2002, at 4:11:01
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » BarbaraCat » Iago Camboa, posted by BarbaraCat on June 30, 2002, at 13:40:33
Hi Barb,
So glad to have learned something from you 1st hand. Wish you the greatest success from your health regimen including your Omega 3 treatment. Also remember good exercise (and sex) are paramount for the nerves! I think you are a very sensitive lady (all fire at times) and need 'double' care.
Be sure I read you always and care very much about you. You asked me once why was I visiting this board: I have been learning a lot here nonetheless from fascinating women like you...
Take care my dear,
Iago> Iaog,
> Hello and hope you are in enjoyment, my friend. No problem with getting back to me sooner, as I have also been rather haphazard with keeping up with my Babbler friends. Nothing too new with me, except for becoming re-committed to an ongoing health regimen. I've been taking moderately high doses of pharmaceutical grade fish oil (for Omega 3 production). Time will tell if it has a lasting beneficial effect with the fibromyalgia symptoms. My hope is that it allows me to get back to a good exercise routine, as that is what truly has the most positive benefits for me. Other than that, life continues to unfold, and I seek to graciously allow it to do so. A twinkle of the eye to you. - BarbaraCat
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 3, 2002, at 0:03:12
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity, posted by Iago Camboa on July 2, 2002, at 4:11:01
You always make my day, Iago. Truly. It's very good to have a friend such as you. I'll drop a hint to my husband about the good sex part, however, I won't tell him who the reminder came from! Our secret.
> Hi Barb,
> So glad to have learned something from you 1st hand. Wish you the greatest success from your health regimen including your Omega 3 treatment. Also remember good exercise (and sex) are paramount for the nerves! I think you are a very sensitive lady (all fire at times) and need 'double' care.
> Be sure I read you always and care very much about you. You asked me once why was I visiting this board: I have been learning a lot here nonetheless from fascinating women like you...
> Take care my dear,
> Iago
>
> > Iaog,
> > Hello and hope you are in enjoyment, my friend. No problem with getting back to me sooner, as I have also been rather haphazard with keeping up with my Babbler friends. Nothing too new with me, except for becoming re-committed to an ongoing health regimen. I've been taking moderately high doses of pharmaceutical grade fish oil (for Omega 3 production). Time will tell if it has a lasting beneficial effect with the fibromyalgia symptoms. My hope is that it allows me to get back to a good exercise routine, as that is what truly has the most positive benefits for me. Other than that, life continues to unfold, and I seek to graciously allow it to do so. A twinkle of the eye to you. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Christina333 on July 4, 2002, at 7:53:36
In reply to Re: mood stabilizers creativity » Christina333, posted by Iago Camboa on June 28, 2002, at 2:59:00
Sorry I didn't get your message. New to the site, learning how to find my way around. The trazadone works sometimes. I can't take a whole pill b/c I wake up dizzy. Already have a problem w/ blacking out. I need to be conscience when my daughter wakes up also.
Posted by licorice on July 28, 2002, at 16:25:22
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by bluemariano on March 17, 2002, at 8:15:21
Cynthia, (and anyone else)
A girlfriend had a serious manic episode recently, was diagnosed with bipolar affective (?) disorder, was on zyprexa and valproate (dekaote in the US) initially and now just on the latter. Interestingly some time back she had a history of bad as well as weird reactions to contraceptive pills, and doesn't use them now. But she also feels certain that monthly hormonal shifts negatively impact her illness. She's not that happy about the prospect of endless medication - and was very very unhappy on zyprexa ! We're trying to research whether she should experiment with contraceptive pills to see if it might helps with her mania (in her case, the depressive side of things is hard to discern) Is there anyone out there who has a take on this ??
I myself have cyclothymia and am thinking about going on low-dose valproate myself But I can only find one study on the net indicating its possible effectiveness. Are there any others, or is it a bit of a thumbsuck ?
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 29, 2002, at 21:01:18
In reply to Bipolar and contraceptive pills, posted by licorice on July 28, 2002, at 16:25:22
I would say that sodium valproate is the best prescription mood regulator available based upon its side effect profile (it is equal in efficacy to lithium).
http://biopsychiatry.com/valproate.htm
Shawn
Posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
In reply to Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by andrewb on August 7, 1999, at 10:33:51
I have been experiencing for as long as I can remember cycling that does not fit with the parameters of bi-polar or cyclothymia. The cycles run every few days normally, but can run minutes or hours. Combined with this I experience mind noise, which can best be described as a very busy train station that runs 24/7. I talked to my psych about it and she had not heard of either of these syptoms, so I stopped seeing her and started my own research. Mind noise is experienced by hundreds of people, some of the more famous include Lord Byron, Emily Dickenson and Kurt Cobain. All known drug addicts. Does any of this sound familiar to you, I am looking for help other than drinking to much, the only thing to give quiet to my mind. Any suggestions other than alcohol or hard drugs? how do you deal with this? I would be interested in your story. The mind noise I experience sometimes is so loud, I can't hear myself speak, its chronic. Does this sound familiar? let me know is this rings true to you and your experiences, please!
Posted by calaway on September 26, 2002, at 9:30:45
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
I am interrested in any thing that you can find out about this. I don't know if what I experienced was the same thing as you are experiencing but your post struck something familiar in me. I have not experience this as an adult, but as a young child (about 8 or 9 years old) I experiance something that might be simular.
As best as I can recall, it used to happen about once every 3 months for about a year, and then after that I think it happened about 4 or 5 times about 6 months apart then disappeared. I can still remember being afraid at around the 6 month mark knowing that I was going to experiance another bout of what ever it was.
It funny that I can't remember how old I was, but I will never forget the episodes. It alway happened at night after I was asleep. I remember waking up to a loud racing noice in my head that just keep getting louder and faster, louder and faster. I can even remember getting out of bed and walking around my room or the tv room, an my walk getting faster and faster. It happing once when a babysitter was over and she and my older sister trying to catch me running around the house crying. I know thatI needed to go faster and couldn't help the walking then running. I can't say how long these episodes laster either they could have been as short as 20 minuites for all I know but they were terrifying.
I still think of those episodes ocasionally and have never figured out what they were or why they happened. My parents told me I was too wound up or they were "growing pains". I really don't know, and as they stopped maybe, but like I said before something in your post struck me as oddly familar.
Posted by Mal on September 26, 2002, at 9:36:23
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
Lollie, I have experienced some mind noise on occasion, though not as severe as what you describe. I have equated it to radio static in my head, so I can't think straight. It subsided on its own after a couple of days, and I haven't had it that bad in a year or so. I think it may have been stress related in my case.
I also experience a different problem- high pitched ringing in my ears. When I settle down at night to sleep sometimes it seems really loud, but I don't have a problem sleeping. I believe this is a different problem, though, and can be treated by a MD. This is pretty much all the time but I don't notice it when I am in my noisy daily environment.
I am sorry if this doesn't really relate, but I hope you find an effective treatment for your problem.
Posted by Ritch on September 26, 2002, at 10:34:05
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
What kind of meds are you on? Antidepressants can trigger a lot of the stuff you are talking about in bipolar folks. The "mind noise" I get are fragments of intrusive music that loop and play over and over and drive me nuts. Also, any thinking processes that were going on while I was working seem to stay in there and continue working on problems trying to solve them somehow. It is like my short-term memory buffer is expanded way too much and doesn't get cleaned out. It is this "continuing to consider" type of thing. Sometimes I have to shut off the TV and not play any music CD's all day to let my mind "quiet out". All of this stuff only happens when I am having hypomanic symptoms. I was checking an epilepsy web-site and they mentioned avoiding excessive exposure to music to prevent seizures (I thought that was odd). There are some other things too.. lately I have been getting these "flashes" of an intrusive image of a car wreck I was in a long time ago. Another analogy of what it feels like is a walkie-talkie where the "squelch" control is altered and you start picking up all sorts of extraneous stuff that you don't want to consider or hear. Yet another analogy I thought of is staring into a pool of water at your reflection while it is raining. If it gets to raining too much all the wavelets from the rain breakup the image so much you can hardly recognize it.
Posted by sparkinark on September 26, 2002, at 12:10:44
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
I think I have close to what you have. It's a form of mania I believe. Mine sounded like there were 100 people all trying to talk to me at once. Not voices that I heard which would be more schizo-related, but racing thoughts. I'm taking Seroquel currently for this and it seems to be doing fine. You might see if your's is a case of mania as well.
> I have been experiencing for as long as I can remember cycling that does not fit with the parameters of bi-polar or cyclothymia. The cycles run every few days normally, but can run minutes or hours. Combined with this I experience mind noise, which can best be described as a very busy train station that runs 24/7. I talked to my psych about it and she had not heard of either of these syptoms, so I stopped seeing her and started my own research. Mind noise is experienced by hundreds of people, some of the more famous include Lord Byron, Emily Dickenson and Kurt Cobain. All known drug addicts. Does any of this sound familiar to you, I am looking for help other than drinking to much, the only thing to give quiet to my mind. Any suggestions other than alcohol or hard drugs? how do you deal with this? I would be interested in your story. The mind noise I experience sometimes is so loud, I can't hear myself speak, its chronic. Does this sound familiar? let me know is this rings true to you and your experiences, please!
Posted by FredPotter on September 26, 2002, at 16:35:18
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by calaway on September 26, 2002, at 9:30:45
>It alway happened at night after I was asleep. I remember waking up to a loud racing noice in my head that just keep getting louder and faster, louder and faster.
I used to have something similar. As well as louder and faster there was a sense of my hands feeling close to my mouth, of strange textural sensations and of increasing significance and something that was all-knowing and mocking and as Laurie Lee says in Cider With Rosie "smiling smiles of unsmiling smileness". I gather that our Laurie had epilepsy. As his description ties in with my own experience so well I figure I must have some temporal lobe epilepsy, subsyndromal perhaps. Fever would bring it on when I was a child, and once as a young adult this happened, producing bouts of this phenomenon that continued long after the illness. The episodes would last about 10 minutes and would usually disappear if someone spoke to me. Make sense anyone?
Posted by fuji on September 29, 2002, at 10:07:01
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Ritch on September 26, 2002, at 10:34:05
I get this quite frequently and I always assumed I was just anxious over something that I either did or didn't know about. When it happens, there is nothing I can do to stop it and the song can loop one particular line for what seems like days on end. At least I am not the only one experiencing it. It seems to go when it is ready to go...
>The "mind noise" I get are fragments of intrusive music that loop and play over and over and drive me nuts. Also, any thinking processes that were going on while I was working seem to stay in there and continue working on problems trying to solve them somehow. It is like my short-term memory buffer is expanded way too much and doesn't get cleaned out. It is this "continuing to consider" type of thing. Sometimes I have to shut off the TV and not play any music CD's all day to let my mind "quiet out". All of this stuff only happens when I am having hypomanic symptoms. I was checking an epilepsy web-site and they mentioned avoiding excessive exposure to music to prevent seizures (I thought that was odd). There are some other things too.. lately I have been getting these "flashes" of an intrusive image of a car wreck I was in a long time ago. Another analogy of what it feels like is a walkie-talkie where the "squelch" control is altered and you start picking up all sorts of extraneous stuff that you don't want to consider or hear. Yet another analogy I thought of is staring into a pool of water at your reflection while it is raining. If it gets to raining too much all the wavelets from the rain breakup the image so much you can hardly recognize it.
Posted by Ritch on September 29, 2002, at 13:43:24
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by fuji on September 29, 2002, at 10:07:01
It really seems to be a very reliable predictor for hypomania for me. It was getting rather bad the last several days, and last night I doubled my Depakote, doubled my Klonopin, and threw some Neurontin in and .... slept like a rock! I woke up feeling very calm and alert. I could sit and try not to think about anything and it was successful. No music loops, just quiet. ahhhh..
> I get this quite frequently and I always assumed I was just anxious over something that I either did or didn't know about. When it happens, there is nothing I can do to stop it and the song can loop one particular line for what seems like days on end. At least I am not the only one experiencing it. It seems to go when it is ready to go...
>
>
> >The "mind noise" I get are fragments of intrusive music that loop and play over and over and drive me nuts. Also, any thinking processes that were going on while I was working seem to stay in there and continue working on problems trying to solve them somehow. It is like my short-term memory buffer is expanded way too much and doesn't get cleaned out. It is this "continuing to consider" type of thing. Sometimes I have to shut off the TV and not play any music CD's all day to let my mind "quiet out". All of this stuff only happens when I am having hypomanic symptoms. I was checking an epilepsy web-site and they mentioned avoiding excessive exposure to music to prevent seizures (I thought that was odd). There are some other things too.. lately I have been getting these "flashes" of an intrusive image of a car wreck I was in a long time ago. Another analogy of what it feels like is a walkie-talkie where the "squelch" control is altered and you start picking up all sorts of extraneous stuff that you don't want to consider or hear. Yet another analogy I thought of is staring into a pool of water at your reflection while it is raining. If it gets to raining too much all the wavelets from the rain breakup the image so much you can hardly recognize it.
>
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2002, at 0:50:02
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by fuji on September 29, 2002, at 10:07:01
When you get mind noise, do you notice that you're also more buzzy than usual? The music loops have happened with me too, but I've also felt an emotional intensity during these times that's not normal, as if something gets triggered and the music loops act as a catharsis. One experience that stands out; a few years ago I happened upon a CD release of an album that I played a whole lot during my rather colorful youth in the late 60's. Hearing it triggered vivid memories I had misplaced for 30 years, and for the next few weeks I couldn't get bits and pieces of the songs out of my mind, looping over and over and getting louder and distorted sometimes and then like a droning hum other times. It was incessant and intrusive and had a deja vu quality. I liken it to a flash back, almost an auditory hallucination, it was so gripping. It brought back disturbing memories, but eventually it all played itself out, wound down and I emerged intact. I've had other wound up chattering loops but always accompanied by other weirdness, never out of the blue when I was feeling mentally healthy. - BarbaraCat
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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