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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by obilot on December 13, 1998, at 19:23:47
In reply to EEG?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 1998, at 0:04:41
> > there is always a song or music of some kind
> > playing in my head.
> The neurologist didn't do an EEG?
> Bobthis may seem silly, but many monastics try for years to attain the state of having a mantra or prayer running through their minds 24/7. if this appeals to you on religious or aestethic grounds, at least you could see if you can at least pick which song/prayer/mantra to run. i've read that barbara streisand also has annoying sounds in her head, except when she sings! she can't listen to music, only to news. rhymic activities such as drumming or chanting have been helpful for me when i've had similar, but much milder experiences.
Posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1998, at 19:52:49
In reply to can't stop the music, posted by Stuuvert on November 18, 1998, at 13:32:13
This sounds like it might be anxiety to me, though maybe not OCD. Have you tried benzodiazepines (Klonopin, Ativan, etc.) or antipsychotics (Zyprexa, etc.)?
I also think you should consider seeing a different neurologist for a 2nd opinion.
Good luck ok?
Posted by George O. on December 14, 1998, at 4:10:16
In reply to Re: can't stop the music, posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 1998, at 19:52:49
> This sounds like it might be anxiety to me, though maybe not OCD. Have you tried benzodiazepines (Klonopin, Ativan, etc.) or antipsychotics (Zyprexa, etc.)?
> I also think you should consider seeing a different neurologist for a 2nd opinion.
> Good luck ok?This is a longshot I suspect, but I had similar problems when on risperdal, also repetitive counting and spelling words over and over, I learned rare instances in which risperdal can worsen symptoms of OCD, I have the same problem with seroquel (new atypical antipsychotic) above a certain dose. George
Posted by Elizabeth on December 15, 1998, at 19:48:35
In reply to Re: can't stop the music, posted by George O. on December 14, 1998, at 4:10:16
> This is a longshot I suspect, but I had similar problems when on risperdal, also repetitive counting and spelling words over and over, I learned rare instances in which risperdal can worsen symptoms of OCD, I have the same problem with seroquel (new atypical antipsychotic) above a certain dose. George
The counting is a really common OCD symptom.
I'd give Klonopin a try, since SSRIs haven't been helping with this symptom. But definitely get a 2nd neuro opinion!
As far as I know, there is no evidence that ECT works at all for OCD, BTW. Anyone have more info about this? (I've only heard of it being used successfully for depression (not atypical depression though), acute mania, and catatonia.)
Posted by Ictinus on December 20, 1998, at 0:24:09
In reply to can't stop the music, posted by Stuuvert on November 18, 1998, at 13:32:13
(Reading the original posts, Wilder Penfeld comes to mind.)
Could this be related to a subclinical seizure disorder? Too many neurologists discount this possibility. Even without an EEG, a trial of Tegretol or Depakote would be worth a shot. If your doc won't consider this, go see a neuropsychiatrist or psychopharmacologist. Perhaps you should do that anyway.Also see this page here at Dr. Bob's:
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/isse.html
Posted by Danielle on December 20, 1998, at 10:00:50
In reply to Re: can't stop the music, posted by Ictinus on December 20, 1998, at 0:24:09
Thank everyone for your ideas and especially stuuvert for letting me know I wasn't the only one in the world with this problem. Am now trying Tegretol, will let you know how it works.
Posted by Mistica on December 20, 1998, at 16:08:24
In reply to Re: EEG?, posted by Stuuvert on December 2, 1998, at 15:18:24
> The neurologist I consulted didn't see a need for an EEG. He was quick to attribute the symptoms to OCD. However, I have no other symptoms of OCD. I don't understand why doctor after doctor is diagnosing it. My major symptoms are unipolar depression and dysthymia. I have a few symptoms of ADD-scattered thoughts, poor memory, inability to concentrate. Could the music be related to ADD? Sometimes it gets so loud (or overpowering) that I can't squeeze another thought into my brain. Maybe a variation of the laser cure for Parkinson's, or electro-convulsive shock therapy would help? At this point I'll try anything.
I don't think you neccessariy need to have any other symptoms, you could have just this one obsession, or this could be the first of more.
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and OCD, both of which I have had problems with all of my life. The various symptoms of OCD I have had through my life have come and gone in spurts that usually last 2-4 years give or take. I can see why the neurologist would suspect OCD, seen I have had a similar difficulty with hearing songs that I could not get out of my head, although I have never experienced it as being "loud"or "overpowering." I understand the difficulty of not being able to get other thoughts into your head, or having to listen to your own thoughts through or around music. I have found that the intrusive thoughts that many complain of with OCD, relates to my own intrusive thoughts, but there is also another factor that plays a role in my scattered or irrelevant "side-thoughts," that is they happen more and are more scattered or free-flowing when I am bored or underaroused. Also I find that even though the SSRI's can eliminate OCD symptoms for me they cannot get rid of the scattered/irrelevant/side thoughts that are always there unless I take Ritalin. I believe that for me the intrusive/scattered thoughts are a product of symptoms interacting or playing upon symptoms.
The neuro. was probably onto something when suggesting OCD, at least in that, regardless of whether a person has ocd (however, it's easire for brain to get stuck or fixated when have ocd) when a person attends to the fact that they are hearing a song and subsequently try to ignore or get the song out of their head they are perpetuating the very thing they are trying to rid themselves of !! Have you ever heard the saying or ? What happens when you try not to think of pink elephants. This is what I am refering to above, I am not suggesting that there is anything you can do to not think of the pink elephants (or music), i.e., I am not saying it's mind over matter and you just "have to do it, because no one else can do it for you," however I am not saying you can't either! In a sense you are a prisoner of your own brain, you need someone to guide you out. Maybe a cognitive-behaviorial approach could help you to retrain your brain.
I also wonder if a stimulant (Ritalin) would help to shut-off this music. My experience with Ritalin has been that it "calms" my thoughts or my brain, so that I don't have so many thoughts running ramped thru my head, at a little to high of a dose it shuts my head/thoughts off completely as if there are neurons firing, no electrical activity, and I go to sleep.
I'm sorry I rambled so much, but I think I understand, I can empathize, I think there are a lot of similarities between your symptom and mine. Please consider what I have said!
p.s. did you by any chance mention to this neuro. that you were worried you may be schizophrenic, if so he may have been thinking that you have ocd and are experiencing a hypochria symptom (i.e., because you "feared" you had schizophrenia).
Posted by Danielle on December 22, 1998, at 10:36:37
In reply to Re: EEG?, posted by Dr. Bob on December 2, 1998, at 23:57:11
OK, I've read as much as I can find about seizures and subclinical seizures and Wilder Penfield but I'm still pretty confused about how a seizure disorder could be related to something that goes on continuously. Can someone help me with this? Thanks again for your ideas. PS,Dr.Bob, I was just kidding about not reading my postings, you can read all my mail if you want.
Posted by Stuuvert on January 5, 1999, at 8:58:23
In reply to Re: can't stop the music, posted by Danielle on December 20, 1998, at 10:00:50
> Thank everyone for your ideas and especially stuuvert for letting me know I wasn't the only one in the world with this problem. Am now trying Tegretol, will let you know how it works.
I too want to thank everyone who has (or will) respond to my query. I am trying respirdol now. Not much change on a low dose. The music isn't quite as intrusive, but I want it completely gone! In November I tried Ritalin, but it did nothing. Maybe dexedrine? I'm still considering ECT for concurrent chronic depression. Any success stories? Stuuvert
Posted by Danielle on January 5, 1999, at 19:54:30
In reply to To all, and esp. Danielle, posted by Stuuvert on January 5, 1999, at 8:58:23
Stuuvert: Thank you for the latest. It sounds pretty good so far - but, yes, I too would rather it be gone completely. If it can be turned down then surely it can be stopped? You think? Im still trying different things, will keep you posted.
Posted by Nancy on January 6, 1999, at 14:59:05
In reply to To all, and esp. Danielle, posted by Stuuvert on January 5, 1999, at 8:58:23
> > Thank everyone for your ideas and especially stuuvert for letting me know I wasn't the only one in the world with this problem. Am now trying Tegretol, will let you know how it works.
> I too want to thank everyone who has (or will) respond to my query. I am trying respirdol now. Not much change on a low dose. The music isn't quite as intrusive, but I want it completely gone! In November I tried Ritalin, but it did nothing. Maybe dexedrine? I'm still considering ECT for concurrent chronic depression. Any success stories? StuuvertECT is a life saver. It's 95% effective and you don't have to wait for a month to begin to see results!
In a couple of weeks I'm going in for "tweeking" to improve a little more. I'll let you know what's up when it's all done.The girl from mixed-state hell,
Nancy
Posted by Stuuvert on January 8, 1999, at 9:21:58
In reply to can't stop the music, posted by Stuuvert on November 18, 1998, at 13:32:13
Migraines and dysthymia have been lifelong concurrent problems in addition to the "mental concerts." I know that migraines (like dysthymia) are related to serotonin levels in the brain, but I don't know if high levels of serotonin relieve depression and cause migraines, or vice versa, or if high levels are always best for both.
I stopped the Respirodol treatment because of increased migraines (4 or 5 per week), for which I use Imitrex nasal spray, which increases serotonin levels drastically upon application. This makes me think that high serotonin levels are best for both.
I also took Dr. Bob's epilepsy test, scored high, and plan to visit another neurologist for an EEG.
Any further input of personal or professional experience will be much appreciated.
Thanks, Stuuvert
Posted by Danielle on January 8, 1999, at 14:13:38
In reply to UPDATE and request for more information, posted by Stuuvert on January 8, 1999, at 9:21:58
I'm sorry Stu but you're crackin me up. Migraines - yes indeed, depression, and other things I won't list. Also won't list drugs tried, but currently: Wellbutrin, Paxil, Nadolol (for migraines), Carbatrol, and most recently added a teeny amount of Seroquel. The Seroquel has turned the music way down or off for most of the day! A first. Funny thing is... counting is a little louder, but I can kind of turn it off myself.This combination is the only thing that has worked for me yet. I'm pretty excited but afraid it won't last. My average pea-sized brain's guess is that the Carbotrol, Paxil, and Seroquel are responsible. Keep working at it, I'm beginning to believe there may be a real solution to the problem. Thank you for the update.
Posted by Danielle on January 11, 1999, at 16:00:47
In reply to UPDATE and request for more information, posted by Stuuvert on January 8, 1999, at 9:21:58
Gloom and doom. Music fighting its way back again after 2 days'respite. Plenty headaches. Increase Carbatrol., not giving up. Headaches will go away, I insist. I sound tough, don't I? Will keep you informed.
Posted by Danielle on January 23, 1999, at 17:19:06
In reply to Re: To all, and esp. Danielle, posted by Nancy on January 6, 1999, at 14:59:05
What's the point anyway? If I get rid of the noise the silence will probably drive me crazy.
Isn't what's on the other side of the door always worse?
Posted by Anonymous on January 23, 1999, at 18:07:20
In reply to Nothing helps , posted by Danielle on January 23, 1999, at 17:19:06
> Isn't what's on the other side of the door always worse?Yes, until you go through the door to see what's *really* there!
Hold tight.
Posted by Stuuvert on February 15, 1999, at 16:37:45
In reply to Nothing helps , posted by Danielle on January 23, 1999, at 17:19:06
> What's the point anyway?
Danielle, please don't give up. I've given up before, too, but if we don't let up on the doctors, I am sure we can be successful.
I've just gone through a MAJOR depressive stage that has really beaten me down. Now I am just trying to recover. So I'm taking 600 mg. Serzone and 300 mg. Wellbutrin. Been on it a month, and I'm just now to the point of only feeling bad 23 hours a day!
Hang on. I wish we could talk to each other more in depth. It might be good for both of us to know more details (?)
Stuuvert
Posted by Danielle on February 17, 1999, at 14:51:10
In reply to Re: Nothing helps , posted by Stuuvert on February 15, 1999, at 16:37:45
If this thing eats my post again...over an hour last night - gone.
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear you have been so down the last month. I was afraid that something like that was the case. Actually, I was a little afraid you'd gone ahead and had your brain messed around with. Not that I don't understand the temptation.
Yes, I know I haven't given many details and I will do so now. I copied your postings and am taking them to my doc Thurs. He is a good guy and good doc but he doesn't have a clue to what's going on either. So, so you can have something to take to your doc, too, here you are:
1. Music has been around at least 3 years...that's in the forefront of my head. I remember periods of torture where things got stuck in my head before that. If not music, then counting...in eights or fours usually. If I do manage to repress both for minute or two, then I hear sounds as words...squish, plunk, pop...potentially more deadly than the other two phenomena. It goes on all day and all night, unrelenting. There are some pieces of music that show up regularly. I can change the piece usually, not always, but I can never turn it off. It's thinking, it's not 'hearing'.
2. Dreams: sometimes a word or scene replays itself in my thoughts all night.
3. Migraines: 30+ years, since HS. They're nasty things.
4. Insomnia: since childhood, also a nasty thing to cope with
5. Depression: seems like forever but just got to the point I had to ask for help 3 years ago
6. OCD: mild tendencies - contamination fears,counting, repeating words, since childhood...enough to drive my family crazy growing up and my husband now
7.Currently: Wellbutrin 150, Paxil 60, Carbotrol 300 (x2), Estratest HS, Synthroid .1, Nadolol 20, Estrace 2, Parlodel 2.5, Seroquel 25
Don't know if you're girl or guy but if you're a girl you'll recognize some of those as girl meds. Your doc will in any case.
8. I have recently become aware of a tendency for it to get worse at the same time as migraines start coming on in threes and fours. I think maybe when headaches subside for a while, the noise is quieter again. (still more, much more, than irritation)
9. Did Bob's Sub-C checklist - scored real high
I haven't given up. I just do that when I'm tired or when it quiets a little bit. When it gets bad, instinct takes over and I fight. I hope the same is for you. Wellbutrin was a great help for me, I hope so for you.
I'll keep you informed.Hope this helps, it's wierd the characteristics we share. Is this my brother or sister? Hmmm.
Best Wishes,
Danielle
Posted by lee on February 25, 1999, at 23:10:14
In reply to Re: can't stop the music, posted by Danielle on December 20, 1998, at 10:00:50
Well, its clear that others experience music in 'mind.' too often. This has arisen as the tinnitus associated with Meniere's has become extreme, just over the last 2 weeks. I just want to offer that, indeed, those who 'hear songs' are not alone, 'cept we cannot com. in person, which is the best "therapy." Alot of the difficulties we seem to experience could be alleviated if we could live is a truly supportive community in which help is natural, no further away than an arm's reach, not defined by an institutional system that only offers occasional appointments, usually requiring horrendous traffic situations that are enuf to drive anyone who is awake, "bananas...." If one hurts alot, and has difficulty concentrating, as I do with ear-ringing, the appointment system is a drag.
I offer, here, my respect and remaining energies to all so afflicted. Please contact me any time for support and mutual understanding often unavailable in the medical system. Keep faith....
Posted by Noa on September 5, 1999, at 9:34:37
In reply to can't stop the music, posted by Stuuvert on November 18, 1998, at 13:32:13
Just reading through old posts from before I found this site. Most intrigued by the music in the head phenomenon, and wondering how you guys are doing now??? Any luck with meds?
Posted by she on September 5, 1999, at 16:53:41
In reply to Re: can't stop the music-wondering how ya doin?, posted by Noa on September 5, 1999, at 9:34:37
I would say not so good, at this point
but thank you
Posted by Stuuvert on September 7, 1999, at 7:47:36
In reply to Re: can't stop the music-wondering how ya doin?, posted by Noa on September 5, 1999, at 9:34:37
No luck so far with meds. I am now trying acupuncture for depression and hoping it may possibly have some beneficial effect on the music. There are meridian points that are stimulated to reduce "over-thinking," which may also reduce the music.
Posted by Ian on September 8, 1999, at 5:55:09
In reply to Re: can't stop the music-wondering how ya doin?, posted by Stuuvert on September 7, 1999, at 7:47:36
I haven't got any answers for you but I think you'd find Oliver Sacks book "The man who mistook his wife for a hat" realy ineresting. One case in his book is an old lady who starts hearing Irish folk music. After unsuccessfully looking for a source:radio etc she concludes it must be in her head. She later remembers that she had heard the tunes early in her childhood when she was about five.A CAT scan showed she had had a small temporal lobe stroke.After a few weeks the musisc which she found pleasasnt faded away again. Also in the book Dr Sacks showed experiments in which people who'd had different parts of there temporal lobes stimulated had al sorts of specific musical and auditory hallucinations.
Perhaps your temporal lobe is a bit hyper at the moment-not realy surprising an SSRI wouldn't cure things as its stimulatory. Anyway the books realy interesting,Ian
Posted by Ian (afterthought) on September 8, 1999, at 6:01:15
In reply to Re: can't stop the music-wondering how ya doin?, posted by Ian on September 8, 1999, at 5:55:09
Have you ever been tried on antiepileptic medication? The problem I suppose is that if you were depressed for reasons other than the music these drugs could make your depression worse
Ian again
Posted by Ian (another one) on September 8, 1999, at 6:22:14
In reply to can't stop the music, posted by Stuuvert on November 18, 1998, at 13:32:13
It may seem a lame suggestion but if we go along the overactive temporal lobe line of things then cutting out all dietatry stimulants may help i.e. coffee, tea,caffeinated drinks, things with MSG in them. Also the things your meant to avoid if your on a MAOI may not help like cheese and redwine as they contain the precusor (tyramine) of several flight or fright neurotransmitters.
Sorry if you've been down this alley already,Ian
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