Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 19:14:54
In reply to Re: Blame - Trigger » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 22, 2006, at 18:32:42
> while I'm grateful for my historical luck, and hope it lasts, I can't reach the point where I don't blame those who make really horrible choices and do horrible things.
You can hold someone morally responsible without blaming them. You can say person P did behaviour Q and a consequence of behaviour Q is that people are harmed. Thus society makes it that a consequence of behaviour Q is that the person who does it goes to jail. Why should they go to jail if they didn't 'freely' do the act (in the libertarian sense of 'free')? So as to prevent their doing the act again. So as to prevent other people doing the act (other people see the consequence is jail and they are thus less likely to do the act). The notions of moral responsibility and blame can be teased apart. 'Blame' has a couple of meanings... It is used in different ways... That makes it hard... I mean... The person who does behaviour P... They are responsible in the sense that THEY did it. They are to blame in the sense that THEY did it.
(But without the notion of blame justice becomes about prevention of offending and rehabilitation rather than about retribution and retaliation)
But what I was talking about was the swinging between
I was to blame
He was to blame
But I love him so I can't blame him
So I was to blame
But I feel so bad about myself I can't tolerate it
So he was to blame
But I love him...If you want to know how to get out of that cycle... The answer is to lift the blame. That doesn't mean you condone what they did or that you think they did the RIGHT thing. It is just to accept that sometimes people do things that hurt other people. That doesn't make them bad people. But sometimes people do things that hurt other people. I think people are more like volcanoes (more unthinking / unconscious in their actions) than is commonly supposed. That doesn't mean that we can't hold them morally accountable. But blame seems to... Result in worse feelings. I'm not sure what good comes of blame...
> Is this possible, though, I wonder--really? Anger can exist without blame
Yes. We can be very angry indeed that the volcano destroyed our home and took some of our loved ones. While understanding that the volcano isn't to blame. We can be angry, and hurt, and sad, and upset. We can feel vulnerable and powerless. Sure, those feelings are an understandable response to a loss of security and the like.
>, but only at lesser degrees.
Yes. That seems kind of right too. Blame... Seems to intensify feelings. Why intensify them? The feelings are hard enough without being intensified...
Hence lifting the blame isn't about making things better for them it is about making things better for us. It isn't about denying what happened or denying the horrible feelings around what happened. It isn't about blaming us because if they aren't to blame someone must be and who is left.
Lifting the blame isn't something that is done once and for all. You start to remember / to think about what happened... You start to describe what happened. As those processes go on you have a choice about whether to describe what happened objectively and non judgementally or whether to describe what happened in a way that attributes intent and assigns blame to one or more of the people involved.
When blame lifts...
It is replaced by acceptance.
Acceptance of what happened acceptance of the consequences of what happened acceptance of all those horrible feelings that resulted from what happened.What need is there for forgiveness once blame has lifted?
I've never managed to figure out forgiveness...
Sometimes I manage to lift the blame. I cry... And the tears are healing. Sometimes I don't manage to lift the blame. I... Wind myself up, I think. Feel a whole heap worse and rail 'why? why? why?' Lifting the blame is a process... It is about consciously choosing to lift it whenever you see you are doing it.
How is forgiveness supposed to be different? I don't understand what forgiveness is supposed to be.
And I don't see why lifting the blame is supposed to be some dimly imagined end point rather than an ongoing thing we try and do and sometimes we manage and hurt and heal and othertimes we just... Hurt. I don't see why lifting the blame isn't the way to heal.
Just how I've been thinking about it, I guess.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:686272
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060911/msgs/688271.html