Posted by 64Bowtie on March 26, 2004, at 1:55:09
In reply to Re:Re: Marinoff and 'philosophical counseling', posted by DaisyM on March 24, 2004, at 20:18:55
Thanx (((Daisy))) for being a provokatuer...
> But do you agree or disagree that we need to work on conflicts with interpersonal skills?
>
<<<if we are "one-with-ourselves", yes. Since I broadly define conflict as anything with even momentary disagreement, much of our waking time is spent at some level of conflict resolution. I contend we are bad at it because we don't use our adult attributes and advanced skills, instead choosing to wait for some "big-person" to come along and tell us how and when to act.Short of guidance, we manipulate with coercion or explode into violence. This is not "a-life"! Its a joke we play on ourselves. We dress up in "big-people" clothes and drive a car and get drunk at lunch just like "big-people" do. Pretty sad picture.
>
>Or, do you think if we "fix" ourselves, these conflicts will be less likely to happen?
>
<<<Hmmmm....; "fix"... We CAN become well; I'm living proof!
<<<Conflicts will happen and we will be "star" conflict resolvers. We'll be so smooth we won't even notice 'em.
>
> I'm pretty OK by myself, and actually, in a big crowd. It is with a few, close friends that I get squirrelly about protecting myself or knowing what to cling to and what to resist (ideas that conflict with mine).
>
<<<...but I like you most when you're squirrelly!Try not clinging to anything for 24 hours and see what you learn. (this is my first lesson for you becoming one of my Life Coaches)
>
> As far as a right of passage, I think if parents gave praise and "rewards" for things done well, not just brave attempts (consider developmental stages, please!) then I think young people would internalize the confidence needed to make decisions based on your balance of thinking and feeling.
>
<<<Not poo-pooing what you are saying. However, for 6,000 years and 180 countries, (None the USA), adolescent males have been given a knife, a robe, and a sack of food, sent off into the forest and told to come back after 12 moons. If they make it back, they become a man in the tribe they used to be a boy in. If they don't make it, they become food for forest predators and scavengers.Translate this to a barmitzva nowdays. Then, notice we don't do this. Then, get curious about why we are retarding our ability to take responsibility, have genuine respect instead of obligation, why we have feelings of approval and mistakenly call it love, and why we avoid new "nouns" (people, places, things, ideas) because we can't accept anyone, let alone ourselves.
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>I think they are given messages over and over to make them feel good but these messages don't resonant with their intellect. Thus, they don't trust either their intellect or their feelings. Or both (make no decisions at all). They don't learn balance.
>
<<<good parenting is inducing a rules based on a moral coda onto the child that hopefully they can remember and use later when they need it. The child responds to the approval of the parent. The child's wiring isn't complete yet so the word love is only recognizable as approval. The parent can have genuine grown-up love for the child. The child can only process approval. All their lives the child may think they are talking about the same thing. However, the neuro folks have solved the puzzle. The kids just don't notice the changeover to grownup love even though it is vastly different from childhood approval electro-chemically in the lab.
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> So, philosophically speaking, this might be why more people *need* therapy today more now than ever.
>
What I think gets me PBCs from Dr Bob. (no one needs therapy as much as they need to become mature, take resoponsibility, replace approval seeking with love, replace fear of danger with respect for the same danger, and replace avoidance of "nouns" with acceptance. The rite of passage ritual gives them a key date to remember as the day that their life changed and they could then call themselves adult!Please listen to your heart and your brain in concert with each other. Both are important! If we keep count, I bet we don't even recognize decisions made with logic. We are told to think with our heart, yet that's all most do anyway. They never learn to honor their adult talents and skills; things that no child can do, ever. They just never notice the difference and denial isnt just a river in Egypt either.
Rod
poster:64Bowtie
thread:326975
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040321/msgs/328599.html